CRITERIA OF CLAD THICKNESS

[Ali Asghari]

Dear All.

Does anybody know about how a designer calculate the thickness of clad material especially for sour service and how much is conservative?

because in our project documents have not said clearly that thickness of clad have to be measured from base material or from layer that dilution is negligible and this question remained does designer account or consider dilution or not?

Regards.

[Alcindo Jardim]

I Know that it must be 3 layers of weld metal deposition

Alcindo O. J. Jr.

21 98575-6362

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[Nithin Joseph]

Hi,

The clad thickness would be derived from the WPS/PQR, the minium thickness to be welded in WPS (Undiluted chemistry achieved height in PQR + any client required depth for undiluted chemistry) will have to be specified in the drawings. With respect to dilution, you have to consider upto 0.5mm extra in the CS base metal, while ordering. This is required since during de-cladding you will be removing upto 0.5mm of diluted base metal for welding the carbon steel.

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Regards,
Dsilva

[Nitin Shetty]

Dear Ali

The thickness of the clad should have been mentioned in the equipment data sheet and more over it should say the intent of the clad. If the thickness of the clad is only for corrosion then u need not consider clad thickness in the design calculation. If this data is missing then u need to ask the client and I wonder how it was estimated if this data was not available in the design data. The sour requirement does not come from code and usually it is dictated by the project documents so u need to find an answer to ur question in the spec for clad thickness or get in touch with ur client. 

Usually what I have seen is that the clad thickness for a clad plate is 3 mm after the manufacturing process is completed and the weld overlay part depends on the wps at what height u can achieve the undiluted chemistry. The height is calculated from the approximate weld interface (refer fig QW 462.5 a), so if the project doc does not specify then follow this.

I hope ur query is answered.

Regards 

NS

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[Ali Asghari]

Dear All.

thanks for your responding.

I may not describe my issue correctly.in our project documents specify just 3 mm 625 clad material, without explaining that this thickness have been considered the dilution layer( that depends to welding process and amount of heat input and might be reached to 1mm) or not .

Now this question remained this 3mm must be measured from base or not?one of our colleague's opinion is that due to high safety design factor and based on the specified requirement which mentioned in project specification, Fe content have to be measured .5 mm beneath from final layer is measured from base metal although I believe we must consider corrosion rate of clad layer (therefor it is prescribed to do ASTM G28) and occurred inter metallic in diluted area which are detrimental and weaken the resistance to corrosion environment.

it must be added that this situation getting so worse if clad layer will be stainless steels.

If anyone have access to any documents that talk about this case or corrosion rate of 625 in G28, please let me know.

Regards.   

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[Ramin Kondori]

Dear Ali:

The clad material (625 Inconel) has specific acceptable ranges for each element.

You have to conduct chemical analysis on different depths; first the root pass surface; second on the depth corresponding to the surface of pipe (grind the root flush to the internal surface of the pipe); the third point shall be 3 mm below the surface (if you have 3mm of Inconel cladding) and at this point, the concentration of all elements shall be at the Inconel 625 specified range (this is the most important measurement). If they fail to meet chemical analysis requirements then you have to modify your welding procedure.

Ramin  Kondori

Sr. QA/QC & Welding Engineer

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[Ramin Kondori]

The goal is to have the same thickness of clad material (and same chemical analysis as the original cladding) at the root side of the weldment. 

Ramin  Kondori

Sr. QA/QC & Welding Engineer

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PG-Dip. in Welding Engineering (IWE  AT  0070)

BSc. in Civil Engineering (IUT)

BGAS Painting Inspector

ASNT Level I&II

                        

[Ali Asghari]

 Dear Ramin.

How is it going?I am so glad to hear you.

You are right that 625 has a specific range for all elements(especially Mo/Cr/Ni) but you know better than me that your mentioned instruction have to be said in project documents and if not be said contractor can not do it or claim inspector and only measurement given is Fe content under just 1mm final layer and we only supplement G28.

And let me remind you, this is cladding of base metal not joining.

Regards.

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[George Dilintas]

it depends on the corrosion rate and some allowance for dilution

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Dr. Georgios Dilintas,

Dipl. Ing. In Aeronautic and Space Engineering

Ph.D in Mechanics of Solids - Computational Mechanics

A.I.S, A.N.I, IRCA Lead Auditor

Welding, Stress Analysis, Corrosion, QA/QC, Failure Analysis, Risk Analysis

[Ali Asghari]

Dear George.

In our project, we ordered some X52 pipes that internally claded& weld overlaid with INCONEL 625 and for qualification of welding procedure, we want to do ASTM G 28 for detecting of susceptibility of inter granular corrosion.

Now  some issues arised:

1.Acceptance criteria that we have found in major documents such as " R Baboian, Corrosion Tests and Standards: Application and Interpretation, ASTM Manual Series MNL 20, second edition, 2005, ASTM, PA, USA" said 0.8 or 0.9 mm/year that but in TOTAL specification of "GS EP PVV 618"say 3mm/year(ideally 1-1.2mm/year). which of them is reliable and when the other can be chosen?

2.Sample preparation not specified in the standard in through thickness direction and I don't know how to prepare it. is it necessary to prepare samples from whole clad(3.7 mm that included interface) or 1 mm from cap surface of clad is enough or other option? this question arises from this point that IGC comes from carbide & inter metallic that mostly possible in diluted area . Now is it reasonable to prepare sample that interface involved it or not?

"The intent is to test a specimen representing as nearly as possible the material as used in service. The specimens should be cut to represent the grain flow direction that will see service, for example, specimens should not contain cross-sectional areas unless it is the intent of the test to evaluate these. Only such surface finishing should be performed as is required to remove foreign material and obtain a standard, uniform finish as specified in 6.4. For very heavy sections, specimens should be maintained to represent the appropriate surface while maintaining reasonable specimen size for convenience in testing. Ordinarily, removal of more material than necessary will have little influence on the test results." this paragraph is taken from G28 and only said about the surface area but didn't talk about any thing about cross section or through thickness orientation of sample especially for weld deposited over laid that have a metallurgical & diluted interface can rise possibility of detrimental phase.

Would you share your experience or address me to a document that specify this issue?

Regards.  

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[George Dilintas]

THE CORROSION RATE YOU MENTION IS THAT OF INCONEL???

[Ali Asghari]

yes, the corrosion rate of inconel in G28 not in service condition

[PGoswami]

Hi Ali,

I’ve incorporated some notes on your query. Hope these would help you.

 

Thanks.

 

P.Goswami.P.Eng, IWE.

Welding & Metallurgical Specialist

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pradip-goswami-2999855/

Email:pgos...@quickclic.net,pradip....@gmail.com

 

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ali Asghari
Sent: September 23, 2018 7:07 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:28330] CRITERIA OF CLAD THICKNESS

 

yes, the corrosion rate of inconel in G28 not in service condition

 

On Sun, Sep 23, 2018 at 1:32 PM George Dilintas <dili...@gmail.com> wrote:

THE CORROSION RATE YOU MENTION IS THAT OF INCONEL???

 

Στις Κυρ, 23 Σεπ 2018 στις 5:16 π.μ., ο/η Ali Asghari <asghar...@gmail.com> έγραψε:

Dear George.

 

In our project, we ordered some X52 pipes that internally claded& weld overlaid with INCONEL 625 and for qualification of welding procedure, we want to do ASTM G 28 for detecting of susceptibility of inter granular corrosion.

Now  some issues arised:

1.Acceptance criteria that we have found in major documents such as " R Baboian, Corrosion Tests and Standards: Application and Interpretation, ASTM Manual Series MNL 20, second edition, 2005, ASTM, PA, USA" said 0.8 or 0.9 mm/year that but in TOTAL specification of "GS EP PVV 618"say 3mm/year(ideally 1-1.2mm/year). which of them is reliable and when the other can be chosen?

v  You’ve to meet the criteria of TOTAL. Corrosion rate on this alloy may be less than what’s mentioned in the referenced  standard, however for a weld overlaid deposition the corrosion rates may vary subject to many factors, consumable composition, welding process, heat input, techniques, dilution levels during welding, Iron(Fe) content in the filler metal….. and many more.

2.Sample preparation not specified in the standard in through thickness direction and I don't know how to prepare it. is it necessary to prepare samples from whole clad(3.7 mm that included interface) or 1 mm from cap surface of clad is enough or other option? this question arises from this point that IGC comes from carbide & inter metallic that mostly possible in diluted area . Now is it reasonable to prepare sample that interface involved it or not?

v  Only the clad(overlay) should be subjected to the above test. The test solution is too aggressive for the X-52 steel. What matters in terms of corrosion testing is for the 625 overlay deposit not the backing material.

v   The specimen thickness (after milling) should represent the actual clad thickness asked in the design specification(3 mm or more). You may mark the X-52 side or the final deposition (process fluid bearing side) for identification and any subsequent analysis.

 

"The intent is to test a specimen representing as nearly as possible the material as used in service. The specimens should be cut to represent the grain flow direction that will see service, for example, specimens should not contain cross-sectional areas unless it is the intent of the test to evaluate these. Only such surface finishing should be performed as is required to remove foreign material and obtain a standard, uniform finish as specified in 6.4. For very heavy sections, specimens should be maintained to represent the appropriate surface while maintaining reasonable specimen size for convenience in testing. Ordinarily, removal of more material than necessary will have little influence on the test results." this paragraph is taken from G28 and only said about the surface area but didn't talk about any thing about cross section or through thickness orientation of sample especially for weld deposited over laid that have a metallurgical & diluted interface can rise possibility of detrimental phase.

 

v  The intention is to test the clad/overlay. Hence the grin flow of the X-52 material would not matter. However advice is to extract the specimens in the direction of overlay.

[George Dilintas]

the week points in similar situations, on my opinion, are the following:

1. Very high dilution, but ii can be compensated if three layers are deposited

2. Iron content of the filler metal. If not zero, it has to be very very low

3. Carbon steel contamination during and after fabrication. How to prevent it: by military housekeeping. No contact with carbon steel tools, no contact with grinding equipment which was used previously on carbon steel, no coveralls, shoes, gloves that were used in areas with carbon steel fabrication. Your area has to be clean like a hospital

[Ali Asghari]

Dear George

All of qualication tests such as Fe content measurement, chemical analysis and other accepred the only doubtful issue is ASTM G28test.

Becuase the prepared sample had a 1mm thickness and due to lack of information, we are not sure about this evaluation is enough or not.