heat input calculation in welding

[sandy]

Hi everybody

I have one query regarding the heat input.
If I am welding a joint with multipass, then I have diffrent heat
input for every pass depening on the parameters. now I want to know
which heat input shall be taken into consideration for the effect of
heat input on base metal, cauz every pass has its effect on base metal
and after every pass due to the previous heat input I am giving extra
heat in the base metal.
So I want to know should I take individual heat input or sum of all
heat input for getting the exact effect of Heat input on base metal.

Regards
Sandeep Kumar

[PAUL OSIKWEMHE]

Hello Kumar,

You have to calculate the heat input for all the runs seperately, and the one with the highest heat input will be given consideration.

Note: you have to oberve you interpass temperature and other parameters during the test.

Regards

Paul osikwemhe.

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[manpreet]

Dear Sandeep,

As stated by you that "every pass has its effect on base metal", Your PQR shall include heat input for each pass and WPS to be written with Heat Input for each pass, as per QW-409.1, any increase in heat input for each pass will require requalification.

Heat input shall be calculated with QW-409.1 (a) and (b), if with any of these methods Heat Input is increased, you need to requalify the WPS, that's why max. heat input value is written for WPS.


Regards
Manpreet Singh




On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 10:55:51 +0530 sandy wrote

>Hi everybody
>
>I have one query regarding the heat input.
>If I am welding a joint with multipass, then I have diffrent heat
>input for every pass depening on the parameters. now I want to know
>which heat input shall be taken into consideration for the effect of
>heat input on base metal, cauz every pass has its effect on base metal
>and after every pass due to the previous heat input I am giving extra
>heat in the base metal.
>So I want to know should I take individual heat input or sum of all
>heat input for getting the exact effect of Heat input on base metal.
>
>Regards
>Sandeep Kumar
>
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>The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
>

[Pablo J Acelajado]

January 28, 2011

 

Hello!

 

You need to show the individual Heat input of each pass and also indicate the sum or total Heat input. 

 

Thanks & best regards.

 

PJA

---

[sandy]

Dear all

I need the information on the technical base not on any code base, wht
the code says like plus or minus.
I am not going to mention the things in WPS or PQR.

So my question is if I want to know the effect of heat input, which
amount of heat input I shall consider??
every single pass or sum of all heat input.

Regards
Sandeep Kumar

On Jan 28, 1:15 pm, "Pablo J Acelajado" <pjacelaj...@npc.com.sa>
wrote:

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> decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[John Henning]

From an ASME Section IX Code stand point the below statements are not correct.

 

On should read the Section IX, QW-409.1, interpretations (there are quite a few).  In particular one should Interpretation IX-81-91.  However, I will transcribe portions of several interpretations that are interesting:

 

IX-81-19

Q4 – “If QW-409.1 does not require that average heat input be determined” {previous question – reply No} “how is heat input established for multiple pass procedure qualification?  Must it be established for each pass?

R4 – QW-409.1 requires requalification when an increase in heat input occurs over that qualified.  Maximum heat input is established during procedure qualification by determination of the maximum amperage and voltage in combination with the least travel speed or, alternatively, the maxi mum volume of weld metal deposited per unit length of weld.  Heat input is not required to be determined for each pass.

 

IX-04-12

Q1 – Does QW-409.1 require the highest heat input, to be recorded on the PQR, be calculated on the parameter used at the location where the HAZ impact specimens are removed.

R1 – No.

 

Although, I will admit I record amperage, voltage, and travel speed for each pass when performing PQR welding whether impact testing is required or not;  i.e. whether QW-409.1 is an essential variable or not applicable.

 

John

[Vinod Kataria]

Dear All,

Please see the attached photo for the undercut and advice if it is possible to repair this on PTEF lined vessel the vessel. The size is 2” NB and wall thickness is 2mm with inside PTFE lining of 4mm. We have imported this vessel from Germany but during 3^rd party inspection it is rejected because of this undercut. The working pressure of this vessel is only 3.5 bar and its successful withstood a hydro test pressure of 10 bar.

Now I request all the expert to please advice if we can repair this undercut if yes than please provide me some guideline or some procedure to carry out this repairing.

Thanks in advance for your kind help.

With kind regards,

Vinod Kumar Kataria

GM - Operations

Bliss Anand Private Limited,

92B/93B Sector 5

IMT Manesar,Gurgaon,

National Capital Region Delhi.

India .

Phone : +91-124-4366000 (9 Lines)

Mobile Phone : +91-9560199004

Fax : +91-124-2290884

[Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING)]

What is the code and material of construction?

[Ilangkumaran Kumarasamy]

Dear experts,

 

                    Could you please give some guidelines or codes, references on how to prepare WPS & PQR? I’m sure your valuable inputs will help me to prepare this.

 

Thank you,

Ilan

**********************************************************************

Borouge is a leading provider of value creating, innovative plastics solutions for customers in the Middle East, Asia-Pacific and Africa. Borouge employs unique Borstar® technology to produce differentiated products for high-value infrastructure applications, including water, gas and industrial pipe systems, power and communication cables, advanced packaging and automotive components. Borouge’s state-of-the-art petrochemical complex is located at Ruwais, Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates.

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[Vinod Kataria]

It is SS-316, 2” NB vessel design Code is B-31.3

 

With kind regards,

Vinod Kumar Kataria

GM - Operations

Bliss Anand Private Limited,

92B/93B Sector 5

IMT Manesar,Gurgaon,

National Capital Region Delhi.

India .

Phone : +91-124-4366000 (9 Lines)

Mobile Phone : +91-9560199004

Fax : +91-124-2290884

 

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING)

Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 1:06 PM
To: 'material...@googlegroups.com'

[Suresh]

Dear Vinod Ji ,

 

Are you sure that you need to go for repair ? I need to ask one question , why TPI was accepted this hydro test If they have been rejected this weld defect . Normally we do hydro  after inspected all welds and materials .

 

As you concerned ,it is SS 316 , and 2 mm WT , As long as that weld joint was prooved it was good sound weld in the hydro @ 10 Bar .I do not think so It is necessary do repair .

 

If you really need to go for repair then you have to g for  re hydro again.(I think so ).

 

I you go for repair  :  Please ensure that how much the depth of under cut and use very low current due to 2 mm thick when you are going for fill up ...

 

Thank you

 

Suresh

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Vinod Kataria <vinod....@blissanand.com> wrote:

It is SS-316, 2” NB vessel design Code is B-31.3

 

With kind regards,

Vinod Kumar Kataria

GM - Operations

Bliss Anand Private Limited,

92B/93B Sector 5

IMT Manesar,Gurgaon,

National Capital Region Delhi.

India .

Phone : +91-124-4366000 (9 Lines)

Mobile Phone : +91-9560199004

Fax : +91-124-2290884

 

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING)

Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 1:06 PM

To: 'material...@googlegroups.com'

Subject: RE: [MW:9624] Weld Repair on PTFE lined vessel

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Thanks  & Best Regards,

Suresh

Mobile No: 91-92 92 905 905

[Vinod Kataria]

Dear Suresh,

Thanks a lot for your response please note customer wants this to be repaired by us before dispatch. Now the problem is the vessel is PTFE lined and this lining will be spoiled if we do any weld repair because of heat.

With kind regards,

Vinod Kumar Kataria

GM - Operations

Bliss Anand Private Limited,

92B/93B Sector 5

IMT Manesar,Gurgaon,

National Capital Region Delhi.

India .

Phone : +91-124-4366000 (9 Lines)

Mobile Phone : +91-9560199004

Fax : +91-124-2290884

 

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Suresh

Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 1:59 PM
To: material...@googlegroups.com

[Suresh]

Hii Vinod ,

 

If your costomer really needs to do the repair, then you can grind up to the root .(root should not be distrub ) ,then do build up /fil up .I think this is the way to protect the PTFE lining from heat input .

 

Thank you

Suresh

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 2:05 PM, Vinod Kataria <vinod....@blissanand.com> wrote:

Dear Suresh,

Thanks a lot for your response please note customer wants this to be repaired by us before dispatch. Now the problem is the vessel is PTFE lined and this lining will be spoiled if we do any weld repair because of heat.

With kind regards,

Vinod Kumar Kataria

GM - Operations

Bliss Anand Private Limited,

92B/93B Sector 5

IMT Manesar,Gurgaon,

National Capital Region Delhi.

India .

Phone : +91-124-4366000 (9 Lines)

Mobile Phone : +91-9560199004

Fax : +91-124-2290884

 

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Suresh

Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 1:59 PM

To: material...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [MW:9630] Weld Repair on PTFE lined vessel

[Vinod Kataria]

Thanks Suresh but the PTFE lining is under this weld also and the any type of repairing will spoil PTFE lining even a small hole in the lining will result in rejection of total material.

[Suresh]

What is the thickness of PTFE lining ? Please ensure that if there is poosiblity for over lay build up .or else you may convence with your customer with showing of  HT report or any other use NDT methods after the build up ..

 

Suresh

On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 2:59 PM, Vinod Kataria <vinod....@blissanand.com> wrote:

Thanks Suresh but the PTFE lining is under this weld also and the any type of repairing will spoil PTFE lining even a small hole in the lining will result in rejection of total material.

 

With kind regards,

Vinod Kumar Kataria

GM - Operations

Bliss Anand Private Limited,

92B/93B Sector 5

IMT Manesar,Gurgaon,

National Capital Region Delhi.

India .

Phone : +91-124-4366000 (9 Lines)

Mobile Phone : +91-9560199004

Fax : +91-124-2290884

 

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Suresh

Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 2:46 PM

To: material...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [MW:9636] Weld Repair on PTFE lined vessel

[Vinod Kataria]

PTFE lining thickness is 4mm we have shown LPT and Hydro Test at much higher pressure i.e. 10 bar against the required 5.25 bar but customer wants this to be repaired before dispatch.

[Pieper QSI]

Dear Vinod,

 

In my opinion there is no opportunity to repair undercuts in piping with only 2 mm wall thickness. By welding you will definitely damage the PTFE liner inside the piping.

Only possibility is to change weld geometry in such case that it will no longer be a sharp transition from weld to base material (if third party agrees).

You can do this by burr grinding but with such small wall thickness you will have the risk to remove too much material.

In this case I would propose to use high frequency hammering with a pin which have a radius at the front of min. 2 mm.

By this method you not removing any material but only changing welds profile. Beside that the loss of strength caused by the undercut will be compensated by the introduced compressive stresses in this area.

 

Met vriendelijke groeten / Best Regards

 

Herman Pieper

 

Pieper Quality Support & Inspection

Phone: +31 (0)521 380083

Fax:     +31 (0)84 7539225

Cell:     +31 (0)6 51691215

www.pieper-qsi.nl

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[PREM SHANKARDUTT NAUTIYAL]

Hi

Please read and understand the suggested format given in ASME Sec IX:
QW-482 for WPS
QW-483 for PQR

Self help is the best help !

Regards

Prem Nautiyal

On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 13:47:59 +0530 wrote
>Dear experts, Could you please give some guidelines or codes, references on how to prepare WPS & PQR? I’m sure your valuable inputs will help me to prepare this.Thank you,Ilan **********************************************************************Borouge is a leading provider of value creating, innovative plastics solutions for customers in the Middle East, Asia-Pacific and Africa. Borouge employs unique Borstar® technology to produce differentiated products for high-value infrastructure applications, including water, gas and industrial pipe systems, power and communication cables, advanced packaging and automotive components. Borouge’s state-of-the-art petrochemical complex is located at Ruwais, Abu Dhabi in the United Arab Emirates. ===================================================================================
>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICEThis email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please delete the email and any attachment(s) and notify the sender.This footnote also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.
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PREM S NAUTIYAL
CELL : 9769316004

[Vinod Kataria]

Dear Herman

Thanks a lot for your kind help the information provided by you will really help us in closing this issue.

Thanks once again.

With kind regards,

Vinod Kumar Kataria

GM - Operations

Bliss Anand Private Limited,

92B/93B Sector 5

IMT Manesar,Gurgaon,

National Capital Region Delhi.

India .

Phone : +91-124-4366000 (9 Lines)

Mobile Phone : +91-9560199004

Fax : +91-124-2290884

 

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pieper QSI

Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 3:48 PM
To: material...@googlegroups.com

[muthu barathi]

Hi.

First which code you have to follow as per client requirement,
2. ASME. AWS, BS or BIS or API as like you have to see. there will be
some variations here and there will be there.
3. check the base material MTC for physical / chemical impact results.
4. Accordingly check with ASME Sec II Part C check the welding
consumables composition.
5. Compare the base metal and welding consumables variables.

if all make pwps as per your codes.

carry out welding as per PWPS and test mechanical properties.

If the results are ok prepare PQR and from this PQR you can prepare WPS
and production could be followed .

best of luck.



On Tue, 01 Feb 2011 13:34:46 +0530 wrote

>Dear experts, Could you please give some guidelines or codes,
references on how to prepare WPS & PQR? I’m sure your valuable inputs
will help me to prepare this.Thank you,Ilan
**********************************************************************B
orouge is a leading provider of value creating, innovative plastics
solutions for customers in the Middle East, Asia-Pacific and Africa.
Borouge employs unique Borstar® technology to produce differentiated
products for high-value infrastructure applications, including water,
gas and industrial pipe systems, power and communication cables,
advanced packaging and automotive components. Borouge’s state-of-the-
art petrochemical complex is located at Ruwais, Abu Dhabi in the United
Arab Emirates.
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Dear Sir,





Thanking You,

Honesty is the best Policy

With Warm Regards,

Muthu Barathi P
Mobile No:00962788269821 (Jordan)
00962775401951

[Robert]

As an alternative to Herman’s recommendations, you might consider undertaking an Engineering Critical Assessment (ECA).  I realize that the toe geometry probably fails to meet code requirements, but if it can be proven through ECA that the joint is “fit for service” in its present condition, especially since further alteration may do more harm than good, then your customer may be inclined to accept your work as-is.

 

Also, while I agree with Herman’s suggestion to apply high-frequency peening, I would caution that this operation will not appreciably restore the static bending strength of the joint to its intended design level.  In other words, peening can be expected to have virtually no effect on its resistance to plastic collapse.  However, peening should significantly improve its fatigue performance, which actually may be more important than static strength, depending on the service conditions.

 

--Robert

 

 

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pieper QSI

Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 4:18 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com

[ayyappan]

Dear Mr. vinod,
can you please give the following details, so that i can able give
some solution.
1. What is the melting point for PTEF used for lining. Normaly PTFE
melting point is 327 deg C and Mecanical degread is 260 Deg c.

2. Do you have the WPS/PQR used by manufacture?

3. In you mail i am not able to see the photograph. if possible pls
send.

4. We can use the Heat-tint mehod for this repairs, with low current,
with some of the backup material used inside the pipe.


On Feb 1, 2:12 am, "Vinod Kataria" <vinod.kata...@blissanand.com>
wrote:

>  PIC 1.jpg
> 1220KViewDownload

[Vinod Kataria]

Dear Sir
Please note my point wise reply as below:-
1. You are right the melting point for PTFE is 330 degree C.
2. The WPS/PQR used is in line with ASME Section - IX.
3. Photograph again attached.
4. Please provide more details on Heat Tint method.

Please also see the following procedure coming to my mind for this repairing
1. We will fill the complete level gauge with cool water and close all
the entry points so that water remain inside during welding.
2. Carry out the welding using PULSE TIG so that heat input can be
minimise.
3. Welding time should be very small to minimise heat input.
4. Put lot of water immediately after completion of welding.
5. Do the High Voltage test to ensure that PTFE lining is not damaged
during welding.
6. KV for High Voltage Test to be selected as per the original wall
thickness of PTFE lining.
7. Do the Hydro test.
Please see if the above procedure is correct and can be used.

With kind regards,
Vinod Kumar Kataria

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[Scott Loew]

take a look at this Video
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