Welder Qualification to AWS D1.1 - using multiple process.

[Pottayil, Biju]

Hi Gents,

 

 

I would like to request your expert advice regarding the WQT (Welder Qualification Test) using AWS D1.1.

 

AWS does not have a provisions for qualifying a welder on a single test coupon using multiple welding processes. AWS WQT is based on the range of the welder's qualifications is based on the thickness of the test plate, not the thickness of the weld deposit like ASME IX. Also AWS specified that the welders are qualified during the Procedure qualification. As per the Code There is no-where written that WQT can be performed with multiple process, except for procedure qualifications.?

 

Question 1: Could you please confirm that the above mentioned statement is correct “Welders shall be qualified with single process on single test coupon”? ASME Section IX where the welder is qualified for a range of deposit thicknesses. Thus, multiple welding processes can be used on the same test coupon and the welder can be qualified for multiple welding processes simultaneously.

 

Question 2: Client had accepted few Welder qualification in-past (Before I join the project) where it was qualified dual process in single test coupon using an approved WPS (R&H – SMAW, F&C – FCAW). Please clarify whether Engineer/Client has the right to accept a non-confirming quals accordance to AWS D1.1 Clause 1.3.1, just to make sure it won’t bite back me later stage.

Regards,

 

Biju Kurian Pottayil

 

*****************************************************************************
This email, and any files transmitted with it, are confidential and intended for use by the addressee only. The confidential nature of the information contained in the email and/or file attachment is not waived, lost or destroyed if it is sent to other than the addressee. Use or dissemination of the information contained in the email and/or file attachment, by a recipient other than the addressee, may cause commercial damage to both/either the sender and/or addressee. If you are not the addressee of this email/file attachment contact the sender immediately and delete this email/file attachment.

All email communications to and from this company are filtered and stored for risk management purposes in accordance with our Computer and Email Policies. Please contact our Privacy Manager on +612 8668 6947 if you would like further information about our Policies in regard to these issues.

*****************************************************************************

[Asim Munir]

Dear All

Can Anybody answer Mr. Biju's Question, I have same question with API 1104

Thanks in advance

Thanks & Regards

MUHAMMAD ASIM MUNIR
Surveyor Industry Department

Bureau Veritas - Dubai

Mobile. +971555184232    

"QUALITY IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN QUANTITY"

P Please consider the Environment before printing this E-Mail

--
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm
 
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[rudolf saldanha]

hi, Muhammad.

First of all the important criteria for you to qualify a welder is a valid WPS. Read 4.22.

My logic is if a WPS is acceptable, why shouldn't a welder qualification be acceptable using the same WPS. However as AWS D1.1  does not speak of Weld Metal Thickness and Base Material Thickness, instead it only speaks of the size of the coupon to qualify a range, I am of the opinion that you can qualify 1 welder for 2 processes using one coupon, provided you have a WPS.

However the Hot Pass will be qualified WITH BACKING ONLY.

Using the same as mentioned above, I am qualifying now a single welder for 2 processes using 1 coupon and a combined process WPS. I may still be wrong, Would appreciate if anybody can tell me if I am wrong and why.

Regards

Rudolf

[Pottayil, Biju]

Hi Gents,

 

I had received the answer from one of the peers (I cannot disclose his name without his concent) it states as follows.

 

Question 1: Could you please confirm that the above mentioned statement is correct “Welders shall be qualified with single process on single test coupon”? ASME Section IX where the welder is qualified for a range of deposit thicknesses. Thus, multiple welding processes can be used on the same test coupon and the welder can be qualified for multiple welding processes simultaneously.

 

Answer 1 - No,  D1.1 Clause 3.6.1 contradicts this premise.  Generally, multi process PQRs are more of a necessity in pressure, rather than structural so this is not usually an issue in structural welded joints as it would be in pipeline or piping.  The limitation of essential variables applicable to each welding process (any arc welding process) shall be established by the Contractor developing the WPS and approved by the Engineer - see D1.1 Clause 4.16.2.  Multi-process welding acceptance per D1.1 is also implied in 5.10 - Backing.
 
The D1.1 code acknowledges multiprocess limitations with FCAW-S compatibility in Table 4.14 note a, requiring impacts for FCAW-S deposits over non FCAW-S welds. 

 

Question 2: Client had accepted few Welder qualification in-past (Before I join the project) where it was qualified dual process in single test coupon using an approved WPS (R&H – SMAW, F&C – FCAW). Please clarify whether Engineer/Client has the right to accept a non-confirming quals accordance to AWS D1.1 Clause 1.3.1, just to make sure it won’t bite back me later stage.

 

Answer 2 - Yes, this is the point, 1.3.1, 1.1 (Scope) and 1.4.1.  "When this code is stipulated in contract documents, all provisions of the code shall be required, except for those provisions that the Engineer or contract documents specifically modifies or exempts.  1.4.1 "The Engineer shall be responsible for the development of the contract documents...The Engineer may add to, delete from, or otherwise modify, the requirements of this code to meet the particular requirements of a specific structure."  However, multiprocess PQRs and welders isn't side stepping the code in my read, if any essential variable (PQR or WQT) is exceeded for any process, they must re-qualify.

 

Further to this the client also had accepted the previous WQT where the test coupon was welded by two welders – similar to ASME IX. However the attached Interpretation was clear that its not acceptable according to AWS D1.1.
 

Regards,

 

Biju Kurian Pottayil

 

[Cenk]

Hi Rudolf,

I count on your explanation. It's also the correct explanation for my opinion. So, welder qualifications limited with essential variables in various codes i.e. ASME IX, AWS D1.1, EN 9606-1, EEMUA 158, API 1104, etc. 

these standard codes usually mentioned thickness, size diameter, positions, filler material (it's affected base material too), joint design (backing is important). Sometimes, codes or client specs request additionals such a WPS qualifies only with the same WPS (mean, if you qualify welder for any WPS, the welder should get test within exact same WPS), etc.

Except, additional requirements, as per basic standard codes, any welder can qualify with only his portion (deposit) of the weld and with the condition of this portion (i.e. if he is doing only hot pass, his qualification can cover only with backing). 

Example:

if the test WPS covers;

GTAW SMAW, P1 Group 1&2, and other parameters (filler, amper, heat input, preheat, etc.) as per ASME IX.

the test option 1:

We want only SMAW qualification, so let weld GTAW portion with another welder then let continue SMAW passes with another welder. Each welder will be qualified within their portion separately. 

the test option 2:

Welder A has been completed the GTAW portion within 4mm deposited thickness of weld. Welder B has been continued SMAW passes for 8 mm deposited thickness of weld. Welder C has completed the balance deposit of thicknesses (13mm).

Welder A qualified for the GTAW process for up to 8 mm thickness.

Welder B qualified for the SMAW process with backing for up to 16 mm thickness.

Welder C qualified for the SMAW process with backing for up to unlimited thickness (because he did 13mm).

The other parameters (filler, amper, heat input, preheat, etc.) can be count on the qualification range too. Or, cause of rejection due to WQT.

Regards,

Cenk

BSEng EWE, IWE & Metallurgical Eng.

20 Ocak 2014 Pazartesi 21:00:15 UTC+4 tarihinde rudolf saldanha yazdı:

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com

For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm
 
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to material...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

--
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com

For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm
 
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to material...@googlegroups.com.