Weaving

[Sampath Kumar]

Dear Friends,

 

WPS says the weaving is allowed/permitted 3times the diameter of the electrode.Please tell me wheather we can allow if the weaving is more than the allowable limit.If it can be allowed.What is the reasons and on what basis it is allowed?If it can not/should not be allowed.Why and what is the reasons?

 

My opinion is that it should not be allowed.[1]Because it deviates from the WPS.[2]properties may vary because of the excess heat In put due to excess weaving.

 

The contractor is of opinion that they will change the WPS to suit excess weaving.It is not an essential variable,hence it can be allowed.To substantiate their claim they say they will change the WPS and they will perform Hardness Test to prove that the properties were not changed.

With Best Regards

Sampath

 

 

[Pieper QSI]

Dear Sampath,

 

I assume you are using ASME as specification? In such case it of course fully depends on if notch toughness tests are required (ASME section IX QW-251.2). If required the heat input is a supplementary essential variable and you may only accept deviations in heat input according to QW-409.1. If not than you may accept such but I in generally don’t not accept any deviations +/- 25 % outside the HI used during WPS qualification without requiring new WPS qualification, but that is my own vision and not written in the specification.

 

Met vriendelijke groeten / Best Regards

 

Herman Pieper

 

Pieper Quality Support & Inspection

Phone: +31 (0)521 380083

Fax:     +31 (0)84 7539225

Cell:     +31 (0)6 51691215

www.pieper-qsi.nl

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[Kathalingam Babu]

Hi

 

Max.weaving of 3 time dia of electrode is thumb rule,

 

But, if you proved more than the above during the PQR by taking the macro cross section , it can be allowed.

 

Thanks & Regards,

 

K. Babu

----- Original Message -----

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[Muhammed Ibrahim PK]

Hi,

 

If the job is in low temperature service we have to strictly control it. In other cases it will not make serious issue. But as a good engineering practice, reduce the weaving to 3 times of electrode dia max.

Thanks & Regards
Muhammed Ibrahim PK

--

[Ramesh Barot]

Dear experts,

 

same to be applicable for GTAW? means three times of filler wire dia? if not please give the reason.
 

Thanks,
With Best Regards,
Ramesh Barot

---

From: Muhammed Ibrahim PK <ibra...@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 10:28:58 PM
Subject: Re: [MW:10483] Weaving

[Pieper QSI]

Dear Mr. Barot,

 

For GTAW mostly maximum wide is specified as dimension , for example: weaving allowed max. 5mm

 

Met vriendelijke groeten / Best Regards

 

Herman Pieper

 

Pieper Quality Support & Inspection

Phone: +31 (0)521 380083

Fax:     +31 (0)84 7539225

Cell:     +31 (0)6 51691215

www.pieper-qsi.nl

 

[muthu barathi]

yes but not applicable to FCAW and SAW

On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 19:07:28 , Ramesh Barot <ramesh...@yahoo.com> wrote

Dear experts,

 

same to be applicable for GTAW? means three times of filler wire dia? if not please give the reason.
 

Thanks,
With Best Regards,
Ramesh Barot

---

From: Muhammed Ibrahim PK <ibra...@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 10:28:58 PM
Subject: Re: [MW:10483] Weaving

Hi,

 

If the job is in low temperature service we have to strictly control it. In other cases it will not make serious issue. But as a good engineering practice, reduce the weaving to 3 times of electrode dia max.

Thanks & Regards
Muhammed Ibrahim PK

On 24 March 2011 10:31, Sampath Kumar <skth...@gmail.com" >skth...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Friends,

 

WPS says the weaving is allowed/permitted 3times the diameter of the electrode.Please tell me wheather we can allow if the weaving is more than the allowable limit.If it can be allowed.What is the reasons and on what basis it is allowed?If it can not/should not be allowed.Why and what is the reasons?

 

My opinion is that it should not be allowed.[1]Because it deviates from the WPS.[2]properties may vary because of the excess heat In put due to excess weaving.

 

The contractor is of opinion that they will change the WPS to suit excess weaving.It is not an essential variable,hence it can be allowed.To substantiate their claim they say they will change the WPS and they will perform Hardness Test to prove that the properties were not changed.

With Best Regards

Sampath

 

 

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[com...@rediffmail.com]

Dear Herman,

We need one solution from your company.

We have to weld 3 mm dia SS 304 wire ring and there should be no burr  at the weld point.

The other conditions are as follows :

Material formation at weld point allowed : 0.15 mm

Demormation at weld point : 0.20 mm

Could you please advise us the best solution for this.  We need to weld appx. 100000 pcs. a day.

Thanks and looking forward to hear from you.

Warm Regards,

KUNAL KHATRI

On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 16:44:32 +0530 "Pieper QSI" <piepe...@kpnmail.nl> wrote
>

Dear Mr. Barot,

For GTAW mostly maximum wide is specified as dimension , for example: weaving allowed max. 5mm

Met vriendelijke groeten / Best Regards

Herman Pieper

Pieper Quality Support & Inspection

Phone: +31 (0)521 380083

Fax: +31 (0)84 7539225

Cell: +31 (0)6 51691215

www.pieper-qsi.nl

Van: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] Namens Ramesh Barot
>Verzonden: vrijdag 25 maart 2011 13:31
>Aan: material...@googlegroups.com
>Onderwerp: Re: [MW:10486] Weaving

>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
>For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
>The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.

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>To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
>For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
>The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.

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>To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
>For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
>The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.

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>To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
>For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
>The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
>

[ramu ramalingam]

Hai,

 

If they want to weave more than 3 times of electrode/filler wire dia, better to make new WPS and proof all the necessary requirement to meet with old WPS.

 

Because,when we weave more, in production weld that time heat input will be increased and  its fail in tenstile test. The heat inputput  should not be more than 3 KJ/min for each process.

Regards,

RR

 

--

[Ahmed Husain]

Dear All,

 

Almost all SMAW WPS prepared in accordance to ASME IX, I have seen, it specify maximum weaving 3 times the electrode dia. But I am unable to co-relate this WPS requirement to any ASME code or Client (ARAMCO) requirement . If weaving 3 times electrode dia is not stated in ASME codes, then why does it is mentioned in WPS?

 

Kindly share some information on this subject.

 

 

Ahmed Husain
Mob-0547170325

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From: ramu ramalingam <ramu....@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 9:49:05 AM
Subject: Re: [MW:10554] Weaving

[Geoff Rogers]

The amount of weaving directly affects the heat input since the wider the weave the slower the travel speed.  With a slower travel speed the greater the heat input which will affect the weld and HAZ grain structure. This typically leads to lower impact toughness values and increased hardness.  Typically the tensile strength is not affected by the extent of weave.  Also, the width of the weave affects how well the weld pool is protected by the shielding and how well the weld metal will fuse to the base metal.  A max weave of 3 times electrode diameter for SMAW and 5mm for GMAW is typically specified since it produces the best overall weld quality and mechanical properties for the productivity achieved.

Geoff Rogers
Welding Engineer
Houston, TX

[Ahmed Husain]

Dear Mr Rogers,

 

First, If weaving has so critical effect on welding, then why its limitation is not stated in Codes.

Second, on what basis, anyone decide that weaving above 3 times of electode dia will affect the grain structure and impact value of weld metal, and below that will produce satisfactory weld metal property.

Third, different material have different impact toughness requirement, but generally  WPS for all materials requires weaving limitaion. 
 

Ahmed Husain
Mob-0547170325

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From: Geoff Rogers <gbr...@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, April 5, 2011 12:44:22 PM
Subject: Re: [MW:10598] Weaving

[Geoff Rogers]

The codes indirectly address weaving by making heat input an essential variable when there is a toughness requirement.

A weave 3 times electrode diameter just became a rule of thumb because it is a general rule that works well.  It is not a rule that should apply to all welding or all materials.  A welding or metallurgical engineer should be consulted to determine what limitation should be put in place.

On Apr 5, 2011 5:35 AM, "Ahmed Husain" <ahm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[anil kumar]

Dear Husain,   Weaving restrictions were mainly for strenght & tougness values, if weaving is more tougness value will fall down and it wont meet the requirements, not only that for better mechanical properties stringe bead is preferable. --- On Tue, 5/4/11, Ahmed Husain <ahm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[lakshman kumar]

Dear All,

 

This is just my view and my experience.

 

If the weld bead width (weaving) is more

Then the profile of the weld bead will become concave at the center of the weld, and this type of shape is not suitable / recommendable for any of the Coating systems.

Because air will entrap in that location at the time of Joint coating and will effect adversely on the coating system.

All this phenomena is because of more width of the weld bead, and as per practice condition and previous experiences 3 times of the electrode dia weaving bead will not produce such kind of concaveness.

Hence this practice has implemented in welding – Especially in Coating required pipelines(Cross country / Onshore / Offshore / Subsea)

Engineers who had worked in pipelines will treat this is a major point and started putting this general statement in WPS – Which in not that much big Issue and will not affect any parameter

 

Thanks & Regards

 

Lakshman kumar.B | Manager - QA/QC | LANCO  INFRATECH LIMITED
www.lancogroup.com

Go Green |The future will thank you

[Jun Chiong]

Kindly check ASME II part C , A 6.1.4

--- On Tue, 4/5/11, Ahmed Husain <ahm...@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Ahmed Husain <ahm...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [MW:10597] Weaving To: material...@googlegroups.com

[John Henning]

In the preceding replies, you’ve been advised that weaving increases heat input which adversely affects impact properties (i.e. dbtt moving to higher temperature, lower upper shelf values).  In addition, with stainless steel, higher heat input will cause greater grain coarsening and increase the potential for sensitization.  Increasing weave width also increases the propensity for slag or silica  entrapment.  The choice of maximum weave width is often proscribed by the customer as insurance against these problems.

 

As to your last statement as to why ASME does not address this – you need only read the Foreword included with each Code book.  To whit, In part:   “. . .This Code contains mandaroty requirements, specific prohibitions, and non-mandatory guidance for construction activities.  The Code does not address all aspects of these activities . . .  The Code is not a handbook and cannot replace education, experience, and the use of engineering judgment.  . . . Engineering judgments must be consistent with Code philosophy and such judgments must never be used to overrule mandatory requirements or specific prohibitions of the Code. . . . “

 

John

 

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ahmed Husain
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2011 2:42 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:10597] Weaving

 

Dear All,

[Ahmed Husain]

First thanks for all reply.

I am not trying to contradict the adverse affect of increase heat input. I am just trying to find any reference document for weaving. At my current project, I have seen many violation reports related to excessive weaving. In most of the cases, material being welded didn’t required toughness/impact test. In all violation reports, only WPS reference was mentioned. My point is that on what basis, it is decided that maximum weaving shall be 3 times of diameter, not 4 times or 5 times. Sould not be different weaving requirement for different material? As far experienced is concerned, it differs from persons to persons.

Does any member of this group have tried or have experienced  of welding with 4 or 5 or 6 times electrode diameter weaving then the material or test failing the requirements. Kindly share your knowledge.

 

 

Ahmed Husain
Mob-0547170325

---

From: John Henning <jhen...@deltak.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tue, April 5, 2011 8:58:39 PM
Subject: RE: [MW:10606] Weaving

[Ankur Mande]

Dear Sampath,

1. Weaving is not an essential variable as far as ASME Sec IX is considered. So the WPS can be revised as per requirement.
2. ASME Sec VIII puts restriction on weaving as mentioned in your WPS, as a good engg practice.

In my opinion as far as the heat input is within control & the minimum bead length mentioned in WPS is achieved there is no problem.

Please revert in case of doubt.

Regards,
 

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