Identification of thickness on Radiography films.

[Ramchandra vichare]

Dear Experts,

During Interpreting Radiography films at one of my vendor's works, I observed that, there is no identification /indicate thickness of job on film so I rejected the film. As far as generally everyone related field experience persons are know unless identification of thickness on film it is very difficult to know which penetrameter to be used but my vendor is arguing for the same. According to him one of "Level III" person insisit them there is no need to mentioned thickness in Radiography films and it sufficient if it indicate in Radiography interpretion report.
Suppose in piping number of joints/piping spools are comming with verious thickness in same report in such case it is possible to identify required penetrameter ? My anser is no, each Radiography films must be indicat thickness of joint/job. Requested to suggest/advise.

Sincerely yours,
RK Vichare

[Raju Kandula]

Dear Vichare..

  as per ASME SEC V article 2, the manufacturer shall include the minimum radiographic parameters in the radiography documentation, so as per sec V it has not been mentioned the thickness had to be included in the radiography film identification but it has to be included in documentation(report). kindly look at the the qualified procedure for any such classes for the film identification. if it is in a single report if there are different thickness joints, u can ask them to add the thickness in the radiography report against each joint, or u can ask them to make a single report for each thickness so it will be easy for the interpreter to view the IQI requirements..

Regards 

Raju Kandula

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[Ariel]

I usually request NDT by request which supports all the information
extracted from Drawings/Isometrics and weld traceability. This process will
tell the tech what thickness/schedule of material.

The report must show all those details.

It's not required to mention material thickness on film considering the
above.

Regards

Ariel Tendeiro

Dear Experts,

Sincerely yours,
RK Vichare

--

[meisam shokri arfaei]

Dear Sir,

As far I know, Information should mentioned in radiography film is based on the procedure or standard, but generally, we have to see one-by-one identification code or something like this on each film. I mean may be you cannot see the thickness of the joint, but you have to see something that indicate the part on the real product individually and have to be unique or may be indicate it on drawings. this will be enough in generall.

 

Regards

 

 

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M. Shokri Arfaei

International Welding Engineer (IWE)

ASNT NDT Level III

ERI Metallurgy Lab. Manager

Tel: +98-21-66282127

Fax: +98-21-66282779

 

Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. BeGreen!

[Jean Staton]

I don't know of any Code that mandates putting thickness on the actual radiograph, although since there are many codes, there may be. The A.I.'s /third parties I've always dealt with know to look at the prints/ISO's, etc. There is usually a report that indicates the thickness. It is up the third party, A.I. to read the report to find information regarding the radiograph and from there to ascertain whether correct IQI has been used. If we have room on the I.D. we will put the thickness on the report but if not, all information is on the report.

jean

-----Original Message-----
From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ramchandra vichare
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 5:00 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:13257] Identification of thickness on Radiography films.

Dear Experts,

Sincerely yours,
RK Vichare

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[george....@gr.bureauveritas.com]

Which is your construction code?
Best regards
Dr Georgios Dilintas
Authorized Nuclear Inspector
Authorized Inspector Supervisor
HBS Regional Technical Manager

[Fitria Rahman]

this is supposed to be specified in radiographic testing procedure. I
can see it clearly that components, and thickness of weld is a
identification system as requested by the procedure submitted by our
NDE company.

Rgds

2011/12/22, Ramchandra vichare <vicha...@indiatimes.com>:

[Karthik]

Hi,

As per Sec.V - T-224, it doesn't require to specify the weld thickness on the film. But As per T-290,weld thickness need to specify on the RT Reports. In your case you can accept the film and all other details shall be specified on the RT reports as per T-290.please find below the extraction of T-224 and T-290 for your reference.

T-224 System of Identification:

A system shall be used to produce permanent identification

on the radiograph traceable to the contract, component,

weld or weld seam, or part numbers, as appropriate. In

addition, the Manufacturer’s symbol or name and the date

of the radiograph shall be plainly and permanently included

on the radiograph. This identification system does not necessarily

require that the information appear as radiographic

images. In any case, this information shall not obscure the

area of interest.

T-290 DOCUMENTATION:

T-291 Radiographic Technique Documentation

Details:

The Manufacturer shall prepare and document the radiographic

technique details. As a minimum, the following

information shall be provided.

(a) identification as required by T-224

(b) the dimensional map (if used) of marker placement

in accordance with T-275.3

(c) number of radiographs (exposures)

(d) X-ray voltage or isotope type used

(e) source size (F in T-274.1)

(f) base material type and thickness, weld thickness,

weld reinforcement thickness, as applicable

(g) source-to-object distance (D in T-274.1)

(h) distance from source side of object to film (d in

T-274.1)

(i) film manufacturer and Manufacturer’s type/designation

(j) number of film in each film holder/cassette

(k) single- or double-wall exposure

(l) single- or double-wall viewing

 

Thanks & Regards,

(Karthik)

Karthikeyan.S

QA/QC Manager

Getabec Energy Co.,Ltd.

379,Moo6,Soi8,Nikhomphatana,

Rayong-21180,

Thailand.

Phone: 0066 38 897035-8 (Off)

Fax: 0066 38 897034

Hand Phone: 0066 892512282

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From: Ramchandra vichare <vicha...@indiatimes.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 5:59 PM

Subject: [MW:13257] Identification of thickness on Radiography films.

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[Ramchandra vichare]

Dear Sir
Construction code is ASME B31.3(Power Cycle Piping)
But as per my vendor, the selection of penetrometer is the total thickness including reinformcements of the welds.So, based on the thickness the weld reinforcment varies, so vendor argues that it can create confusion(only in border cases) if wall thickness is mentioned in the film.
Generally, the film identification shall be placed on the film to make a corelation with the report & to fullfill the mandatory requirements as laid down by the code.
Kindly advise.

[pgoswami]

Hi Ramchandra,

B-31.1 may be the design code for piping, but all the  NDE procedures should be written as per ASME Sec-V. Below mentioned are the requirements of ASME Sec-V on what should be covered in the  RT procedure..

Clause 136.4.5(B-31.1) addresses the RT requirements which clearly states that :- When required by this Chapter (see Table 136.4), radiographic examination shall be

performed in accordance with Article 2 of Section V of the ASME Boiler and Pressure Vessel Code.Hence the RT tech have to follow Sec-V.

Indicating the thickness on the RT film may not be mandatory (but advisable for meaningful inspection and  easy film verification if the vendor agrees to )

Penetrameter (IQI) selection is influenced by the thickness of the material being radio graphed. Thus specifying the thickness vs. IQI tobe used  on the NDE procedure would benefit both the  NDE tech and the film verifier.

It's my point of view on this issue.

Thanks.

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.IWE
Welding & Metallurgical Specialist & Consultant
Ontario,Canada.
Email-p...@sympatico.ca,
pgos...@quickclic.net

T-220 GENERAL REQUIREMENTS
T-221 Procedure Requirements
T-221.1 Written Procedure. Radiographic examination shall be performed in accordance with a written procedure. Each procedure shall include at least the following information, as applicable:
(a) material type and thickness range,
(b) isotope or maximum X-ray voltage used,
(c) source-to-object distance (D in T-274.1),
(d) distance from source side of object to film (d in T-274.1),
(e) source size (F in T-274.1),
(f) film brand and designation, and
(g) screens used.

T-221.2 Procedure Demonstration. Demonstration of the density and IQI image requirements of the written procedure on production or technique radiographs shall be considered satisfactory evidence of compliance with that procedure.


-----Original Message-----
From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ramchandra vichare

[Ramchandra vichare]

Dear Mr.Jean Station,
Thanks, I know it is not in any code (i.e.Sec-V Artical-2) or any other code but as far as for interpretor it is very difficut to review numbers of Radiography films & identify the IQI selection whether it is correct or wrong. If ready reference of thickness on Radiography films it is easear to interpret films in time . As far as my experience till date there was no any issue of indicate thickness on RT Films but; may be it is not confirm in any code; vendor/techiicians may take dis-advantage for the same and might have a change to use wrong IQI which may not be possible to controll quaity of Radiography by surveyor/interpretor because every time it is not possible to serch each documents for find out actual/thickness range used for Radiography.

Please go through my below mail again and advise.

Regards
RK Vichare

[Ramchandra vichare]

Thanks, but it is not possible to prepared report for each thickness because of quantity of radiographs. anyway thanks for reply.

Regards,
RK Vichare

[Shammas kallinkil]

Dear RK Vichare.

 

For me this is more an ethical issue than anything else. i know it is difficult as an interpretor to find thickness from the document everytime, but RT film adresses the joint correctly with joint no. and drawing no., it is possible to find out.

 

if it was me i would rather struggle onetime and ask the contractor to include thickness next time during RT, rather than rejecting the films.

 

I believe it is unethical to reject films like this as we all know that RT is a dangerous job, no matter the technician is geting paid but its still dangerous for him so try to minimise RT as much as possible also it is waste of money.

 

As an interpretor we are trusting the contractor based on proffesional ethics, because if i ask you, how sure are you about the rt films presented to you are from the correct/right joint?. yes it is possible to find out but do you always cross check that?( its also a difficult job but we trust the contractor on that most of the time.)

 

so thats what i will do, ask the contractor to include thickness next time around. if he dont do it and comes up with some codes to support him, i ll take things personally from then with him.:)

 

thank you

 

shammas kallinkil.
Inspection Engineer

Fanoy Gas L.L.C

Abu Dhabi.

[Jean Staton]

I try and do the job as I know it is to be done.  How do you know if the RT hand was given the correct thickness (and if he or she sites developer they can make the film come out depending on the temperature of the chemicals).  The prints/iso should be more reliable.  I have had contractors tell me the schedule was 80, where it was 40, good thing I look at flanges, pipe to verify before I RT the welds.   Just my thought and oh by the way it is MS, not Mr.

 

jean