GTAW Filler Metal with a "G" suffix in ASME Sect. IX

[yfer...@gmail.com]

Hi Gentlement,
We have many qualified  WPS/PQR (GTAW process) using filler metal with a “G” suffix such as ER-70S-G and qualified base on ASME Section IX ( using previous ASME IX  Ed. 2004/Ed. 2007) . In QW-404 / Filler Metals), para QW-404.12  state that change classification is NON ESSENTIAL VARIABLE. But in ASME IX Ed. 2007 addendum 2008, in the same QW-404.12 state that change in classification is SUPPLEMENTARY ESSENTIAL VARIABLE ( a filler metal with a” G” suffix)Our question is  whether this existing WPS/PQR need re-qualification (change from NON ESSENTIAL VAR to SUPPLEMENTARY ESSENTIAL VAR)?
Great thank to get sharing accordingly.
Regards,
Yan
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[M Rezazade]

 Dear sir

QW-404.12 is supplementary essential variable and when impact test required in your WPS (or production) according to construction code, you need to consider it as essential variable.

 .so changing the brand of G suffix electrode is not permitted in WPS without re qualification of PQR with new brand of electrode. (when impact test required)

در سه‌شنبه 9 فوریهٔ 2010، ساعت 5:10:20 (UTC+3:30)، yan نوشته:

[Ramin Kondori]

Dear Mr. Rezazade:

Be careful when using filler metals with a “G” suffix since they may have any combination of alloying elements and only by referring to manufacturer catalogue you can find out which alloying element(s) they have used.

Once I remember that a company qualified a WPS with E8018-G (that later I found it had Cr/Mo additions) and during production their procurement officer purchased another E8018-G (that later I found it had Nickel additions).

This caused the company a lot of trouble since these are two different filler metals with different properties. Ni additions are suitable for low temp service but Cr/Mo additions improves high temp service properties (the application was a gas turbine exhaust - high temp service).

So always check the catalogue before proceeding with PQR or production.
 

Ramin Kondori

Sr. QA/QC Engineer

SINOPEC

r.ko...@petroyada.com
+98-2123592322
+98-9132150320

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[Ranendra Chakraborty]

I am just adding one thing. Suffix G means general and it can be any combination. If anybody wants to purchase Electrode/Filler with suffix G,then he needs to specify the correct combination to avoid any last minute confusion.

Regards,

Ranendra

[KRISHNASAMY MASANAM]

Dear all,

                       If you are using those electrodes it shall be approved from the owner/client, its mandatory requirement as per ASME Sec II C

      

Thanks & Best regards

 

Krishnasamy. M

Mechanical/Welding Inspector

Saudi Aramco Project Inspection Department

TUV NORD - KSA

krishnasa...@aramco.com

KSA +966 564743358 (Available)

INDIA +91 9442558057

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Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:40:18 +0530
Subject: Re: [MW:20286] Re: GTAW Filler Metal with a "G" suffix in ASME Sect. IX
From: ranen...@gmail.com
To: material...@googlegroups.com

[rudolf saldanha]

Hi, all,

If I am not wrong, there is no chemical composition given for suffix G, Hence, during production welding, the filler rod that is being bought should match with the one that is used during the PQR. Hence in my opinion as far as possible a filler rod with suffix G should be avoided during PQR stage.

Regards

[M Rezazade]

Thanks All

Dear Krishnasamy, please tell us the ASME clause for the requirement of Client approval. I think the approval required as per your project specification.

Dear Ranendra and Ramin, I know G suffix electrodes have different chemical analysis because they have only minimum alloy content in chemical analysis table (like SFA 5.5 Table 2) but please do not confuse it with the qualification matter. According to ASME sec IX, only when impact test required, any change of the brand will be essential and requires re qualification.

Of course According to API 582, brand change in G suffix fillers is essential in all conditions.

Thanks all for this good lesson learn and knowledge sharing.

Best regards,

M. Rezazadeh

Senior Technical Inspector

www.qcpage.com

Kakao ID: yashayasha

linkedIn: ir.linkedin.com/pub/mohammad-rezazadeh/4a/191/899/

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[John Henning]

You may also run into qualification difficulties with respect to A-No.  To those not aware, the 2013 edition of ASME  IX has changed Table QW-422 with specific values for elements that previously had ellipses (. . . . ).  If you use a G type filler metal or electrode that does not meet the requirements for a standard A-No. chemistry, you are restricted to that brand&type or to that specific chemistry.  See essential variable QW-404.5

 

 

John A. Henning

Welding & Materials

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[kannayeram gnanapandithan]

not required

THANKS & BEST REGARDS

KG.PANDITHAN, AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

[KRISHNASAMY MASANAM]

No, required as per ASME Sec II C SFA-5.18 Table 1, Table 3, kindly find the attached files for your references...

      

Thanks & Best regards

 

Krishnasamy. M

Mechanical/Welding Inspector

Saudi Aramco Project Inspection Department

TUV NORD - KSA

krishnasa...@aramco.com

KSA +966 564743358 (Available)

INDIA +91 9442558057

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Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 10:31:37 +0530
Subject: Re: [MW:20295] Re: GTAW Filler Metal with a "G" suffix in ASME Sect. IX
From: kgpan...@gmail.com
To: material...@googlegroups.com

[kannayeram gnanapandithan]

Who is purchaser? Manufacturer or Customer?

THANKS & BEST REGARDS

KG.PANDITHAN, AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

[krishnasamy1968]

Customer 

Sent from Samsung Mobile

[george....@gr.bureauveritas.com]

Check what is written in QW 404.5

In lieu of an A‐Number designation, the nominal chemical
composition of the weld deposit shall be indicated on
the WPS and on the PQR. Designation of nominal chemical
composition may also be by reference to the AWS classification
except for the “G” suffix classification, the manufacturer’s
trade designation, or other establ ished
procurement documents.

Consider also this explanation:

This specification includes filler metals classified
as R(X)XX-G [RMXX-G]. The “G” indicates that
the filler metal is of a general classification. It is general
because not all of the particular requirements specified
for each of the other classifications are specified for this
classification. The intent in establishing this classification
is to provide a means by which filler metals that differ in
one respect or another (chemical composition, for example)
from all other classifications (meaning that the composition
of the filler metal, in the case of the example, does not
meet the composition specified for any of the classifications
in the specification) can still be classified according to the
specification. The purpose is to allow a useful filler metal—
one that otherwise would have to await a revision of the
specification — to be classified immediately under the
existing specification. This means, then, that two filler
metals, each bearing the same “G” classification, may be
quite different in some certain respect (chemical composition,
again, for example).
 
Conclusion: do not use a "G" filler metal to qualify a WPS. You will be in trouble with the A - No

best regards

Dr. Georgios Dilintas

Authorized Nuclear Inspector
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krishnasamy1968 ---14/03/2014 06:13:46---Customer Sent from Samsung Mobile

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[John Henning]

In lieu of A-No. , the WPS will be limited to weld metal composition or Brand and Type of filler metal. 

 

John A. Henning

Welding & Materials

 

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of george....@gr.bureauveritas.com

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