Welding of E316L material -Reg

[siva subramanian]

Dear sirs,

                 I have one clarification regarding welding of SA240 GR 316L material.

May I use E316-16 to weld 316L material.If it is not possible means What is reason behind?

Please Clarify me.

Always Thankful,

A.Sivasubramanian

[pgoswami]

Hi Siva,

 

If the intended service for S.S 316L is for corrosive environments , then the answer is NO.

 

Like base metals , welding consumables for SS 316 could be manufactured as "Dual Certified Grades". Example as per SFA 5.4

• For E-316-XX-- Maxm "C" allowed is -0.08%
• For E-316L-XX-- Maxm "C" allowed is -0.04%

If the electrode manufacturer " Restricts C to  0.04%, yet the  all mechanical test as per SFA 5.4  are passed, then  this grade could be certified as "Dual Certified Grade" , e.g -  E316/E316L-XX. Please check this point with electrode supplier. If the answer is yes then welding consumable certified as  E316/E316L-XX, are safe to use for welding S 316L.  However the consumable must meet any corrosion test, say ASTM A-262 Practice E, if required.

 

Hope this will guide you well to cope with the problem.

 

Thanks.

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.IWE

Welding & Metallurgical Specialist

Ontario, Canada.

Email-p...@sympatico.ca,

pgos...@quickclic.net

 

---

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of siva subramanian
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2013 11:02 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:17261] Welding of E316L material -Reg

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[Mohit Aggarwal]

Dear sir,
If you use 316 electrode on 316 L material there will be increase in composition of carbon content which leads to depletion of Chromium layer at elevated temperature of service condition and it can also results in fail of IGC...

[Bala Nechur]

Hello Expert,

 

I have P43 material  to be welded with P1  material please recommend suitable filler wire for GTAW and SMAW process?

 

 

Bala

 

[Karthik]

Hi,

Pls. find herewith the attached file might be useful to you.

 

Thanks & Regards,

(Karthik)

Karthikeyan.S

QA/QC Manager

German-Thai Boiler Engineering Cooperation Limited.

Rayong Factory ;

379 Moo.6 Soi 8, Tambol Pananikom,

Nikompattana, Rayong 21180 THAILAND

Tel : +66 38 897 035-9 Ext. 137

Fax : +66 38 897 034

Hand Phone: 0066 892512282

---

From: Bala Nechur <bala....@phoenixindustrial.ca>
To: "material...@googlegroups.com" <material...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 1, 2013 11:46 PM
Subject: [MW:17265] P43 material to P1 Material Welding.

Hello Expert,

 

I have P43 material  to be welded with P1  material please recommend suitable filler wire for GTAW and SMAW process?

 

 

Bala

 

[kannayeram gnanapandithan]

As per SFA 5.9,   C is max .03% for ER 316L,, in this case what should be done?

Pandithan

Welding Consultant

[rudolf saldanha]

Hi, Siva, My apologies, In my earlier reply I should have added L suffix to the E316-16, there is a difference between E316-16 and E316L-16 as the carbon content varies, unless the electrode supplier dual certifies the electrodes as E316-16/E316L-16.

 

Hope the info clarifies.

 

 

From: siva subramanian <ian...@yahoo.co.in>
To: "material...@googlegroups.com" <material...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Monday, 1 April 2013, 23:01
Subject: [MW:17261] Welding of E316L material -Reg

[rudolf saldanha]

Yes you can use 316-16 for 316L material

You can also use 316-15 if it involves very low temperature charpy,

316-17 is better but it is not highly suitable for 3g welds as the weld metal is very fluid and welder skill is very important.

316-16 is good as it serves all purpose and all position.

 

Hope the info helps

 

From: siva subramanian <ian...@yahoo.co.in>
To: "material...@googlegroups.com" <material...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 1 April 2013, 23:01
Subject: [MW:17261] Welding of E316L material -Reg

[kannayeram gnanapandithan]

316-15----- works on DC only. Deep penetration and bead appearence is not good
316-16------- works on DC/AC. It is best for surfacing and good bead appearence

Pandithan
Welding Consultant

On 4/3/13, rudolf saldanha <rudol...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yes you can use 316-16 for 316L material
> You can also use 316-15 if it involves very low temperature charpy,
> 316-17 is better but it is not highly suitable for 3g welds as the weld
> metal is very fluid and welder skill is very important.
> 316-16 is good as it serves all purpose and all position.
>
> Hope the info helps
>

> ________________________________

[Ahmad el-sharkawy]

it's not suitable to weld 316L with electrode 316-16 as this case to increase carbon content which case forming chromium carbide (Cr23C6) which case intergrainual corrosion ( sensitization) ( make
grain boundary depletion of chromium ) ***** use electrode 316L or 309Cb

[kannayeram gnanapandithan]

309Cb should not be used to weld 316L as it does not have moly What Mr Goswami said, pl follow that

Pandithan

Welding consultant

[Ahmad el-sharkawy]

We can use 309cb as it an stabilizer grade with clumbuim (Cb) where this element have high infinity to react with carbon which keep joining from sensitization and do the same function of E316L.

[kannayeram gnanapandithan]

What is chemistry of 316L and function of Mo. If experts knows the function of Mo in 316L, definitely, he will not recommend 309Cb instead  of 309MoL

Let us pinpoint  our comments to question asked for

Pandithan

Welding consultant

[kannayeram gnanapandithan]

Dear Experts/Mr Goswami

In TIG welding rod ER316L, carbon is kept at max 0.03, In SMAW welding electrode E316L, carbon is kept at max 0.04 in all LOW Carbon electrodes. What is logic behind it

Generally for Carbide formation, minimum carbon require is 0.04

Pandithan

Welding Consultant

[pgoswami]

Mr. Pandithan,

 

My Opinion as follows:-

 

 

C is 0.04% Max for SMAW electrodes. The Ferro alloys added through the flux also contributes "C" in the weld. If required electrode manufacturers could  formulate welding electrodes , with max "C"  below 0.04%, but it would be costly.

 

For GTAW filler, the chemical composition of the wire = the chemical analysis of the weld puddle. No alloys are added separately, except that alloys could be lost through turbulence or improper shielding. Hence achieving base filler with Max "C" of 0.03% is very practical, with the available stainless manufacturing routes.

 

Hence thinking all the pros and cons  the  above suggested limits   are  agreed on by  ASME  Sec-II ,Pt-C Code committee.

 

Perhaps  some  opinions from   consumable manufacturing industries would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.IWE

Welding & Metallurgical Specialist

Ontario, Canada.

Email-p...@sympatico.ca,

pgos...@quickclic.net

 

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From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kannayeram gnanapandithan
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 8:01 AM
To: materials-welding
Subject: Re: [MW:17352] RE: 17261] Welding of E316L material -Reg

[Ahmad el-sharkawy]

it's not suitable to weld 316L with electrode 316-16 as this case to increase carbon content which case forming chromium carbide (Cr23C6) which case intergrainual corrosion ( sensitization)
( make grain boundary depletion of chromium )

[manish kulkarni]

Dear Experts,   Any idea or ref. for using CS without PWHT of piping welds with NaoH service? The process fluid is almost 50% NaoH and design temp. of 82 Deg.C , operating temp. @35 Deg.C. Now the issue is by using rubber lining on ID side of piping, still PWHT is required for CS welds? Any literature available for NaoH service and CS materials?   Regards,   Manish Kulkarni   --- On Sat, 13/4/13, pgoswami <pgos...@quickclic.net> wrote:

[Raghuram Bathula]

Refer NACE RP0403, caustic soda service chart.

Since the material is not in contact with the fluid (as long as the Rubber lining is intact), In my opinion PWHT may be avoided.

[pgoswami]

Mr. Kulkarrni,

 

If you look through the first attachment, 50% NAOH concentration and 82 Deg of design temperature would call for PWHT of the welds and pipe bends( following forming).This is an universal materials selection diagram which is illustrative in NACE- SP0403-2008 (formerly RP0403), Avoiding Caustic Stress Corrosion Cracking of Carbon Steel Refinery Equipment and Piping.

 

Generally maintaining  a hardness lower that 200 HBW is recommended

 

Use of rubber lining is permitted subject to the fact that all only  specific types of rubber are recommended of 50% NaOH caustic solution(see the 2nd attachment). The rubber lining has to be leak tight and there should be a good inspection technique to ensure the integrity of the lining is  good after years of service. If the lining is not good and the C.S welds are not heat treated , there's every possibility that welds may get attacked.

 

Hence I would think PWHT or No PWHT should be a judgment call of the owner/client. After all the cost for PWHT will be lot cheaper than the cost of procuring the new equipment.

 

One  argument could that operating temperature is 35 Deg C, i.e C.S (without PWHT) is still safe to use. However  ultimately the design parameters are essential to adopt or waive PWHT for the welds and bends.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.IWE

Welding & Metallurgical Specialist

Ontario, Canada.

Email-p...@sympatico.ca,

pgos...@quickclic.net

 

---

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of manish kulkarni
Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:26 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:17493] PWHT for CS weld in NaoH service

Dear Experts,   Any idea or ref. for using CS without PWHT of piping welds with NaoH service? The process fluid is almost 50% NaoH and design temp. of 82 Deg.C , operating temp. @35 Deg.C. Now the issue is by using rubber lining on ID side of piping, still PWHT is required for CS welds? Any literature available for NaoH service and CS materials?   Regards,   Manish Kulkarni

,

[AMIT PAHUJA]

Dear Manish Kulkarni san,

You can propose Temper-bead welding to avoid PWHT in such case.

Regards

Amit Pahuja

[nil...@novatechprojects.com]

Dear sir   For P1 G-1,2 - weld , HAZ & Base metal - there is any lower limit to Hardness After PWHT.   If yes please specify the reference code .          Thanks  & Regards     Nilesh  Patil Novatech Projects India Pvt. Ltd. W-84/85/96  Additional Ambernath Anand Nagar MIDC ,Ambernath -E-421506 Ph:        91 0251 2620681 / 26201514 Fax:       91 0251 2620681

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