Impact test qualification requirement for WPS/PQR

[asad azmi]

Dear All,

 

Greetings.

 

A vessel is being fabricated as per ASME SEC VIII DIV 1.

 

Vessel material is SA 387 GR 12 CL2, 65 THK. MDMT is   -18 DEG CELCIUS.

 

Approved WPS is supported by  2 PQR  detailed as below --

 

PQR 1

 

Test coupon thickness - 40 mm ,

Welding process used - GTAW + SMAW + SAW ,

Weld deposit by SMAW  Process is 19 mm.

Weld deposited by SMAW  is impact tested at   0 deg celcius.

 

PQR 2

 

Test coupon thickness - 10 mm ,

Welding process used - GTAW + SMAW ,

Weld deposit by SMAW  Process is 8 mm.

Weld deposited by SMAW  is impact tested at    - 18 deg celcius.

 

Whether  PQR  2 can be used for SMAW  Process to deposit  21 mm weld in a weld groove of 65 mm in depth .( for closing seam of shell to dished head & nozzle to dished  head weld seam)

 

Please advice. please give ASME SEC IX Reference.

 

Thanks & Regards

 

Asad Azmi

 

[rahul m]

 SA 387 GR 12 CL2, 65 THK. MDMT is   -18 DEG CELCIUS how to make PQR for this thickness ? or  how many PQR required for this thickness?

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[Prakash Hegde]

Hi! You require to qualify 2 PQR presuming using only one process of SMAW and base metal of min 8mm  and max 65mm i) PQR 1-to be qualify on min base metal thk is of  34mm thk which will qualify for base metal  from 16mm to 66mm  ii) PQR No 2--To be qualified on base metal of 8mm  which will qualify for base metal from 8mm to 16mm All these PQR should satisfy the same  PWHT condition i.e. Temp and Time  as per ASME Sec IX code   These 2 PQR will qualify for welding  of base metal thk from 8mm to 65thk  in one process For  Impact test requirement   (However you can qualify with multiple process on the same base metal thk .range In such case the weld metal thk range qualification will depend upon its deposited weld metal thk.i.e.g. if it is less than 19mm of each process , weld metal qualifies for 2t ,and if it is more than 19mm the weld metal thk qualifies for MAX thk to be welded) --- On Mon, 2/7/12, rahul m <rahulm...@gmail.com> wrote:

[vikas waghmare]

Dear Asad,

Please clarify the charpy specimen size used during testing and the
testing impact temp

Reagrds

Vikas waghmare

On 7/2/12, rahul m <rahulm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> * SA 387 GR 12 CL2, 65 THK. MDMT is -18 DEG CELCIUS how to make PQR for
> this thickness ? or how many PQR required for this thickness?*

>
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 2:31 PM, asad azmi <azmias...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> Greetings.
>>
>> A vessel is being fabricated as per ASME SEC VIII DIV 1.
>>
>> Vessel material is SA 387 GR 12 CL2, 65 THK. MDMT is -18 DEG CELCIUS.
>>
>> Approved WPS is supported by 2 PQR detailed as below --
>>

>> *PQR 1*
>> **

>> Test coupon thickness - 40 mm ,
>> Welding process used - GTAW + SMAW + SAW ,
>> Weld deposit by SMAW Process is 19 mm.
>> Weld deposited by SMAW is impact tested at 0 deg celcius.

>> **
>> *PQR 2*

>>
>> Test coupon thickness - 10 mm ,
>> Welding process used - GTAW + SMAW ,
>> Weld deposit by SMAW Process is 8 mm.
>> Weld deposited by SMAW is impact tested at - 18 deg celcius.

>> **
>> *Whether PQR 2 can be used for SMAW Process to deposit 21 mm weld in

>> a weld groove of 65 mm in depth .( for closing seam of shell to dished
>> head

>> & nozzle to dished head weld seam)*
>> **

>> Please advice. please give ASME SEC IX Reference.
>>
>> Thanks & Regards
>>
>> Asad Azmi

>> **

[c sridhar]

Mr.  Azad Asmi.

Pl. refer to your query:

"Whether  PQR  2 can be used for SMAW  Process to deposit  21 mm weld in a weld groove of 65 mm in depth .( for closing seam of shell to dished head & nozzle to dished  head weld seam)

Please advice. please give ASME SEC IX Reference."

QW 200.4 - combination of welding procedures says (in short)

a. Processes, filler metals, or other essential or supplementary variables  is used in a joint QW 451  
    shall be used of the range to determine of base metal thickness for each process, filler metal or set
    of variables and those limits shall be observed. Alternatively qualification of  of WPSs for root
    deposits only made in accordance with QW 200.4(b).

b. QW 200.4 (b) says a PQR  for a process  recording a test coupon that was at least 13 mm
    thick. and combined  with one or more other PQRs recording  another welding process and any
    greater base metal thickness up to 2t.

Since your SMAW weld deposit is only 8 mm thick. it can not be used for your 21 mm weld thick in a 65 mm thick material weld.

If you have any queries on above , pl. let us know.

sridhar.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------







:

---

From: rahul m <rahulm...@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, 2 July 2012 2:15 PM

Subject: Re: [MW:14738] Impact test qualification requirement for WPS/PQR

[rahul m]

CAN THIS WAY IT CAN BE DONE??

PQR-1 : WITH thickness,T =4mm , so that range qualified wud be 2 to 8mm(gtaw)

PQR 2: WITH thickness,T= 8mm,so that range qualified wud be 8mm to 16mm(GTAW + SMAW)

PQR 3: WITH thickness,T= 32mm,so that range qualified wud be 16mm to 64mm (SMAW)

On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 10:02 AM, mohd <mohd...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear asad,

PQR-1

Test coupon thickness - 40 mm ,

Welding process used - GTAW + SMAW + SAW ==I proposed thickenss is 5 GTAW +19 SMAW +16 SAW

Weld deposit by SMAW  Process is 19 mm.

Weld deposited by SMAW  is impact tested at   0 deg celcius.

You can deposite SMAW == 38 (or unlimited) with Impact 0 Degree achievable

PQR-2

Test coupon thickness - 10 mm ,

Welding process used - GTAW + SMAW ==I proposed thickness is 2 GTAW ??+8 SMAW

Weld deposit by SMAW  Process is 8 mm.

Weld deposited by SMAW  is impact tested at    - 18 deg celcius.

You can diposite SMAW ==16mm with Impact -18 Degree achievable

Your Query:

Material thickness is 65mm and Process is GTAW+SMAW+SAW==12 GTAW+21 SMAW+32 SAW you want to weld with -18 Impact

Ans1: you can deposit only 16mm with SMAW with Imapct -18 degree.

OR

You have to Qualified PQR-1 for  -18degree if have some balance piece of PQR.

Regards,

mohd.

--

[gogulu kumar]

Dear Asad Azmi,

PQR 2 can be used to deposit 21mm thick weld if other essential and supplementary essential variables are same as PQR 1, since "T limits impact" (QW-403.6) has limitation only on min. thickness qualified.

Regards

Gogulu Kumar 

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Regards

Gogulu Kumar

+919765804701

[Kavin202082]

Refer asme sec 8 div 1 ,para UG-84 G (1) & Up


Sent from Samsung Mobile

-------- Original message --------
Subject: Re: [MW:14738] Impact test qualification requirement for WPS/PQR
From: rahul m <rahulm...@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
CC:

 SA 387 GR 12 CL2, 65 THK. MDMT is   -18 DEG CELCIUS how to make PQR for this thickness ? or  how many PQR required for this thickness?

[John Henning]

This is incorrect,  for PQR 2, QW-451.1 limits the maximum thickness of base metal and weld metal to 2T and 2t, respectively.  Therefore, PQR 2 is only qualified to a maximum of 20mm base metal thickness and 16mm SMAW weld metal thickness.  Since PQR 1 was impact tested at a higher temperature than required it is not applicable to welding on this combination of materials and required MDMT.

 

John A. Henning

Welding & Materials

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The information in this email is confidential, and is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email please let us know by reply and then delete it from your system; you should not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. The internet can not guarantee the integrity of this message. HAMON (and its subsidiaries) shall (will) not therefore be liable for the message if modified.
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[gogulu kumar]

Dear John A. Henning,

With reference to below interpretation, PQR 2 should be acceptable for depositing 21mm thick weld by SMAW process and 

PQR 1 & PQR 2 can support a WPS with notch toughness requirement (at -18 deg. C) with base metal thickness range from 10mm to 80mm and weld metal deposited by SMAW process up to 38mm max.

Please correct me if i am wrong.

Thanks & Regards

Gogulu Kumar

[John Henning]

Ah, but there is a catch.  All essential and supplementary essential variables must be the same.  While technically feasible, it is difficult to pull off.  If nothing else, heat inputs will usually be vastly different between the thick and the thin coupons.  About the only place I see this working is with machine (automatic) GTAW or another machine process.  For a manual processes like SMAW it is unlikely that heat input will be the same.

[rahul m]

dear alll,

      can we able to combine two pqr's ,one with impact test and the other without impact test?

[mohd Dohad]

Dear,
Yes. You can combine if all essential variable are same.

Example:
1 PQR1 20mm thk GTAW+SMAW WITHOUT IMPACT with PWHT.

2 PQR2 6mm thk GTAW WITH IMPACT with PWHT.
Consider essential variable P,F,group,other are same as used in PQR1

You can combined this pqr n make one wps with impact ,pwht range from
5mm to 40mm.


Regards,
Mohd.

On 7/9/12, rahul m <rahulm...@gmail.com> wrote:
> dear alll,
> can we able to combine two pqr's ,one with impact test and the other
> without impact test?
>
> On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 10:49 PM, John Henning <jhen...@deltak.com> wrote:
>
>> Ah, but there is a catch. All essential and supplementary essential
>> variables must be the same. While technically feasible, it is difficult
>> to
>> pull off. If nothing else, heat inputs will usually be vastly different
>> between the thick and the thin coupons. About the only place I see this
>> working is with machine (automatic) GTAW or another machine process. For
>> a
>> manual processes like SMAW it is unlikely that heat input will be the
>> same.

>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> John A. Henning****
>>
>> Welding & Materials****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
>> material...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *gogulu kumar
>> *Sent:* Friday, July 06, 2012 1:58 AM
>> *To:* material...@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [MW:14780] Impact test qualification requirement for
>> WPS/PQR****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Dear John A. Henning,****
>>
>> ** **

>>
>> With reference to below interpretation, PQR 2 should be acceptable for

>> depositing 21mm thick weld by SMAW process and ****

>>
>> PQR 1 & PQR 2 can support a WPS with notch toughness requirement (at -18
>> deg. C) with base metal thickness range from 10mm to 80mm and weld metal

>> deposited by SMAW process up to 38mm max.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Please correct me if i am wrong.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> [image: Inline image 1]****
>>
>> Thanks & Regards****
>>
>> Gogulu Kumar****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **

>>
>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2012 at 8:30 PM, John Henning <jhen...@deltak.com>

>> wrote:*
>> ***

>>
>> This is incorrect, for PQR 2, QW-451.1 limits the maximum thickness of
>> base metal and weld metal to 2T and 2t, respectively. Therefore, PQR 2
>> is
>> only qualified to a maximum of 20mm base metal thickness and 16mm SMAW
>> weld
>> metal thickness. Since PQR 1 was impact tested at a higher temperature
>> than required it is not applicable to welding on this combination of

>> materials and required MDMT.****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> John A. Henning****
>>
>> Welding & Materials****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> *From:* material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:
>> material...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *gogulu kumar
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 04, 2012 12:11 PM
>> *To:* material...@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [MW:14764] Impact test qualification requirement for
>> WPS/PQR****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Dear Asad Azmi,****
>>
>> ****

>>
>> PQR 2 can be used to deposit 21mm thick weld if other essential
>> and supplementary essential variables are same as PQR 1, since "T limits

>> impact" (QW-403.6) has limitation only on min. thickness qualified.****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Regards****
>>
>> Gogulu Kumar ****
>>
>> ****

>>
>> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 4:01 PM, asad azmi <azmias...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:

>> ****
>>
>> Dear All,****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Greetings.****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> A vessel is being fabricated as per ASME SEC VIII DIV 1.****
>>
>> ****

>>
>> Vessel material is SA 387 GR 12 CL2, 65 THK. MDMT is -18 DEG

>> CELCIUS.***
>> *
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Approved WPS is supported by 2 PQR detailed as below --****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> *PQR 1*****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Test coupon thickness - 40 mm , ****
>>
>> Welding process used - GTAW + SMAW + SAW ,****
>>
>> Weld deposit by SMAW Process is 19 mm.****
>>
>> Weld deposited by SMAW is impact tested at 0 deg celcius.****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> *PQR 2*****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Test coupon thickness - 10 mm , ****
>>
>> Welding process used - GTAW + SMAW ,****
>>
>> Weld deposit by SMAW Process is 8 mm.****
>>
>> Weld deposited by SMAW is impact tested at - 18 deg celcius.****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> *Whether PQR 2 can be used for SMAW Process to deposit 21 mm weld in

>> a weld groove of 65 mm in depth .( for closing seam of shell to dished
>> head

>> & nozzle to dished head weld seam)*****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Please advice. please give ASME SEC IX Reference.****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Thanks & Regards****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Asad Azmi****
>>
>> ****

>>
>> --
>> To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group's bolg at
>> http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
>> The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views
>> and
>> meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions

>> w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.****
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> -- ****
>>
>> Regards****
>>
>> Gogulu Kumar****
>>
>> +919765804701****
>>
>> ****
>>
>> ****

>>
>> --
>> To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>> For more options, visit this group's bolg at
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>> The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views
>> and
>> meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions

>> w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.****

>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
>> The information in this email is confidential, and is intended solely for
>> the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email
>> please let us know by reply and then delete it from your system; you
>> should
>> not copy this message or disclose its contents to anyone. The internet
>> can
>> not guarantee the integrity of this message. HAMON (and its subsidiaries)
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>> ______________________________________________________________________****

>>
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>> The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views
>> and
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>> w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.****
>>
>>
>>
>> ****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> -- ****
>>
>> Regards****
>>
>> Gogulu Kumar****
>>
>> +919765804701****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ** **

>>
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>> To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
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>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________
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>> the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient of this email
>> please let us know by reply and then delete it from your system; you
>> should
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>> not guarantee the integrity of this message. HAMON (and its subsidiaries)
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>> ______________________________________________________________________
>>
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>
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> To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
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> The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and
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