Material Certificate EN 10204-3.2 without TPI Witness

[BK]

Dear Experts

As per project Specification the Material Certificate requirement for primary structural steel (S355 G8 M) is EN 10204-3.2. 

We received Mill Certificates along with material and in that it is mentioned "Certificate as per EN 10204-3.2" but the Third Part Inspector from Client and Third Party Inspector from EPC contractor REVIEWED and STAMPED at manufacturer's location. And no any evident on Mill Certificate that the tests were witnessed by any third party inspector, but it is stated 3.2 Certificate.

 

By Definition of 3.2 Certificate Third Party Inspector shall have witnessed the tests stated in the certificate. 

Please clarify the following:

1. Is it acceptable 3.2 certificates without Third Party Inspector WITNESS ? 

2. On what basis manufacturer declaring 3.2 ?

3. Is it acceptable if manufacturer declared 3.2  without showing any evidence. 

Regards

BK 

[Richard robes]

Dear BK,

Appreciate your question, in EN10204 document for the requirement of 3.2, it's stated clearly that "Document Validated by" Authorized Inspector or TPI, so as long as document is being validated by inspector with a review stamp it's not mandatory for a witness stamp as long as inspector is an authorized guy, hope it clarifies.

Regards

Richard 

--
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm
 
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

[moloy dhar]

"The manufacturer’s authorized inspection representative independent
of the manufacturing department and either the purchaser’s authorized
inspection representative or the inspector designated by the official
regulations".

. As defined in code, which means that any department who is
independent to their manufacturing responsibility and that can be
either their own quality department, or any authorized inspection
agency which has certified the product as per the intendant
specification.

The same is acceptable as a standard practice in industry

Rgds
Moloy

[vhr...@gmail.com]

The agency independant the manufacturing department shall certify the result of test i.e EN 10204 -3.1. A purchaser 's inspection agency whose witness and certify the reuslt of test i.e EN 10204-3.2
Regards,
Vikas Rana
Sent from my Nokia phone

[BK]

Dear Richard

Thanks!

In other cases manufacturer declared 3.2 in Mill Certificate but no any signature of TPI (not validated/reviewed) was found other than manufacturers signature. In this case how the manufacturer arrived 3.2.

Regards

BK 

[Richard robes]

Dear BK,

You are welcome, in that case you can reject the certificate, because if it's not signed and wet stamped by TPI its not valid.

Regards

Navaneeth

[Dick Overkleeft]

Dear BK,

 

The certifcate can not be regarded as 3.2.

Since you received the material, you could consider the material to be sampled and tested at your premises by third party , and let them issue a 3.2 certificate.

Could save some cost instead of sending the material to th seller.

besrt regards,

Dick Overkleeft

Bureau Veritas

2013/12/9 BK <sara...@gmail.com>

--

[Afshin]

Dear All,

I have a question about difference between material certificate and inspection certificate both grade 3.2, I am doing business in the field of pump and my customer asked for inspection certificate type 10204 3.2, but pump package includes motor, pump, base plate, coupling and etc. I think inspection certificate means presence of inspector during performance test and declare that package manufactured based on project specification and order.

Regards,

Afshin 

[Dick Overkleeft]

Dear Afhin, you are correct.Normally the inspecteren is this party  and independent from the manufacturer.  You have  to  make sure  if all  parts  have te be delivered,  with the in won certificaten,  issues by their own manufacturer. For example,  pump and motor, etc.
The cliënt  specification,  might  indicate  with third party is tot be used.
Best regards,
DICK Overkleeft 

Op 14 dec. 2014 10:30 schreef "Afshin" <ar.m...@gmail.com>:

--

To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm
 
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[george....@gr.bureauveritas.com]

EN 10204 is applicable to metallic parts, not to equipment.
Therefore a certificate according to this standard can not cover operational or functional aspects of a pump. motor, valve etc
Please read carefully the scope of application of EN 10204

best regards

Dr. Georgios Dilintas

Authorized Nuclear Inspector
Authorized Inspector Supervisor


I&F REGIONAL TECHNICAL MANAGER
BUREAU VERITAS HELLAS

Tel: +30 210 40 63 113/4
Fax: +30 210 40 63 118
Cell: +30 69 44 64 62 04
(See attached file: Dilintas_George.vcf)

Dick Overkleeft ---14/12/2014 16:10:48---Dear Afhin, you are correct.Normally the inspecteren is this party  and independent from the manufac

This message contains confidential information. To know more, please click on the following link: http://disclaimer.bureauveritas.com

[Afshin Rahmati]

Dear Dr. Georgios,

You are right, standard is applicable for metal parts. But in equipment manufacturer supply metals too. For example shaft of pump, when the customer ask for 3.2 certificate does it mean that material certificate of 3.2 for metal parts like shaft to be included in inspection book?

If yes, what is the procedure? Manufacturers buy raw material for shaft with 3.1 certificate and then in their workshop they do machining to produce shaft. Then the inspector see 3.1 certificate and will approve it to have 3.2 ?? or there is another procedure to have material certificate of 3.2 for metal parts? or since this is equipment it is not applicable to have any material certificate for parts like shaft?

Thanks for your reply,

Regards,

Afshin

--
To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-welding+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm

 
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-welding+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm

The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-welding+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[gprak...@gmail.com]

That's true but it is common in ME for clients to ask for 3.2 certs for products. The client appoints or approves an agency to witness tests and the appointed agency issues 3.2 cert for the scope of inspection assigned.

Rgds
Prakash. G.
Independent Consultant. ASME/ISO

From: george....@gr.bureauveritas.com Sent: Monday, 15 December 2014 10:53 To: material...@googlegroups.com Reply To: material...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [MW:22576] Re: Material Certificate EN 10204-3.2 without TPI Witness

[gprak...@gmail.com]

I think the discussion is going to parts which is not the intention. Client will specify what test are required to be tested.

Rgds
Prakash. G.
Independent Consultant. ASME/ISO

From: Afshin Rahmati Sent: Monday, 15 December 2014 13:25

To: material...@googlegroups.com Reply To: material...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [MW:22577] Re: Material Certificate EN 10204-3.2 without TPI Witness

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.

[george....@gr.bureauveritas.com]

First of all the manufacturer has to establish a specification for the manufacturing and testing of the parts.
This specification may make reference to a standard or code or regulation.
Then the manufacturer has to establish an ITP.
This ITP will fix the involvement and roll of all interested parties (manufacturer, client, Third Party, authorities etc).
The client has to approve this ITP
The Third Party shall perform the inspection in accordance with the ITP.
Then the manufacturer's QA/QC & Third Partly shall prepare  the 3.2 certificate

best regards

Dr. Georgios Dilintas

Authorized Nuclear Inspector
Authorized Inspector Supervisor


I&F REGIONAL TECHNICAL MANAGER
BUREAU VERITAS HELLAS

Tel: +30 210 40 63 113/4
Fax: +30 210 40 63 118
Cell: +30 69 44 64 62 04
(See attached file: Dilintas_George.vcf)

Afshin Rahmati ---15/12/2014 11:26:26---Dear Dr. Georgios, You are right, standard is applicable for metal parts. But in equipment

From: Afshin Rahmati <rahmat...@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Date: 15/12/2014 11:26
Subject: Re: [MW:22577] Re: Material Certificate EN 10204-3.2 without TPI Witness
Sent by: material...@googlegroups.com

---

Dear Dr. Georgios,

You are right, standard is applicable for metal parts. But in equipment manufacturer supply metals too. For example shaft of pump, when the customer ask for 3.2 certificate does it mean that material certificate of 3.2 for metal parts like shaft to be included in inspection book?
If yes, what is the procedure? Manufacturers buy raw material for shaft with 3.1 certificate and then in their workshop they do machining to produce shaft. Then the inspector see 3.1 certificate and will approve it to have 3.2 ?? or there is another procedure to have material certificate of 3.2 for metal parts? or since this is equipment it is not applicable to have any material certificate for parts like shaft?

Thanks for your reply,

Regards,
Afshin


On Monday, December 15, 2014 10:23:48 AM UTC+3:30, George Dilintas wrote:
EN 10204 is applicable to metallic parts, not to equipment.
Therefore a certificate according to this standard can not cover operational or functional aspects of a pump. motor, valve etc
Please read carefully the scope of application of EN 10204

best regards

Dr. Georgios Dilintas

Authorized Nuclear Inspector
Authorized Inspector Supervisor


I&F REGIONAL TECHNICAL MANAGER
BUREAU VERITAS HELLAS

Tel: +30 210 40 63 113/4
Fax: +30 210 40 63 118
Cell: +30 69 44 64 62 04
(See attached file: Dilintas_George.vcf)

--

To post to this group, send email to

material...@googlegroups.com

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm

The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm

The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

This message contains confidential information. To know more, please click on the following link: http://disclaimer.bureauveritas.com 

--

To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group's bolg at

http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
http://www.linkedin.com/groups/MaterialsWelding-122787?home=&gid=122787&trk=anet_ug_hm

The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Nasser Kunju]

,

For pumps if  3.2  certification is required it  has to be specified in the pump datasheet under the section  QA Inspection and Testing. 

In such cases ,  the casting /forging would be  cast/forged  with generally an integral/separate test piece which would be verified and tested as required by the project/ material specification in the presence of a TPI appointed by the purchaser  or the purchaser  . 

The Inspection certificate would then be stamped off as 3.2. 

For any material upgradation to 3.2  from 3.1. we need concurrence from the end user for the process unless it is done at the manufacturer. 

Traceability has to be verified by TPI/Purchaser at the stockist/processor  and the mechanical/ chemical  tests as required by the material/project specification from a sample of the material to be used has to be witnessed by him Then only the inspection certificate can be upgraded to 3.2. 

All the above steps should be  included in the ITP as part of quality assurance  to ensure compliance to the project requirements .

Required  certification to be included in the Inspection book whether is is 3.2, 3.1 or 2.2 depending on the project specification / standard

For more information on 3.2 certification upgradation see attached leaflet from Lloyd's on the topic- Material from stockist - 3.2 intent

Best regards,

Nasser M.K.