Surface roughness measurement instruments.

[Vasantharao]

Dear Experts,

I work as inspection Engineer. When i go for Blasting inspection, contractor provided  me profile comparator for surface roughness measurement.

Contractor do  Grit blasting in the shop.

I need to measure surface roughness  -  75-100 microns      Painting system No#1

                                                            50-75 microns        Painting system No#2

Queries

Q 1: Comparator is enough for surface roughness measurements.

Q2: Is any other tools available for roughness measurement?.

Q3:  What is the normal industry practice.


Pl. provide your valuable suggestions as i'm new for painting activities.

Rao.

[jsr...@gmail.com]

Dear Mr. Rao,

There are portable surface roughness measuring instruments to measure as required.

UK based Rank Taylor Hobson instruments are available in India.

Srinivasan

Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel

---

From: Vasantharao <vasan...@yahoo.in>

Sender: material...@googlegroups.com

Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 15:38:40 +0530 (IST)

To: material...@googlegroups.com<material...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: material...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [MW:13256] Surface roughness measurement instruments.

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[jagath kavali]

Dear vasantha rao,

    For surface roughness measurement comparator is sufficient, You are not specified the type of equipment & application of the equipment.

For surface roughness measurement Digital and dial gauges available in the market we are using the same.

By using the comparator you could not get the exact  value of the roughness , Comparator is not sufficient for all kind of jobs.


Best regards

Jagath

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[karthick enigoo]

Dear sir,

 

Please Find the Below Answer In Green.

 

 

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Vasantharao <vasan...@yahoo.in> wrote:

Dear Experts,

I work as inspection Engineer. When i go for Blasting inspection, contractor provided  me profile comparator for surface roughness measurement.

Contractor do  Grit blasting in the shop.

I need to measure surface roughness  -  75-100 microns      Painting system No#1

                                                            50-75 microns        Painting system No#2

Queries

Q 1: Comparator is enough for surface roughness measurements.

Q2: Is any other tools available for roughness measurement?. For measuring the roughness as per SA 2 1/2, we can measure with help of Press " O " Films, With help of Dail Gauge  we can Measuring the microns in a Press "O" Flim. Minus -50 microns from absorved to get actual valve. After blasting with in 3hrs primer to be painted.

 

Q3:  What is the normal industry practice.


Pl. provide your valuable suggestions as i'm new for painting activities.

Rao.

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The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.

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[Karthik]

Hi,

The profile comparator is the normal practice done in painting inspection.If you want to buy Surface roughness measuring instruments,there are lot of manufacturers available in the market like Mitutoyo,kosako etc.,

http://www.kosakalab.co.jp/english/product/precision/coarseness/ 

http://www.mitutoyo.com/ProductTypeResultForm.aspx?searchterm=surface%20roughness 

 

Thanks & Regards,

(Karthik)

Karthikeyan.S

QA/QC Manager

Getabec Energy Co.,Ltd.

379,Moo6,Soi8,Nikhomphatana,

Rayong-21180,

Thailand.

Phone: 0066 38 897035-8 (Off)

Fax: 0066 38 897034

Hand Phone: 0066 892512282

---

From: Vasantharao <vasan...@yahoo.in>
To: "material...@googlegroups.com" <material...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2011 5:08 PM

Subject: [MW:13256] Surface roughness measurement instruments.

[yogeshkumar Kumbhar]

Dear Member,

Please find attached file profile depth micrometer for measuring microns.

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Vasantharao <vasan...@yahoo.in> wrote:

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With Best Regard's

Yogesh V Kumbhar

[Pieper QSI]

Dear Mr. Rao,

 

Be aware that the microns you mention is not the surface roughness but the coating layer thickness (DFT = Drie Film Thickness).

For surface roughness you will have values like SA 2,5 microns or similar and in practice mostly the comparators are used for inspection prior to first layer of coating.

After fist coating layer there is no need to measure the roughness anymore.

 

Met vriendelijke groeten / Best Regards

 

Herman Pieper

 

Pieper Quality Support & Inspection

Phone: +31 (0)521 380083

Fax:     +31 (0)84 7539225

Cell:     +31 (0)6 51691215

www.pieper-qsi.nl

[Saravanan Mohan]

Dear Rao,

My suggestion follows:-

(1) Surface comparator is sufficient as in your spec must have mentioned about roughness grade Sa 1, Sa2, Sa2.5 or Sa3 which is equivalent to 75-100 micron or what so ever accordingly you can compare. 

(2)Dial depth gauge and Testex Replica film for permanent record are available.

(3)In your case Testex Replica film is the normal industrial practice. 

Thanks from

Saravanan Mohan

[Vasantharao]

Dear Mr.Jagath,

Thank you for providing valuable info.

I do inspection of Off-shore platforms.

At present Blasting & painting of Jacket legs are in progress and Copper slag is the abrasives used for blasting.

Contractor use "G" type comparator  & its roughness values are attached for info.

I have still ambiguity regarding  tools to be used for roughness value.

my main question is what is the industry practice & is it comparator more than enough for surface roughness measurement?

best regards

Rao

---

From: jagath kavali <jagath...@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 22 December 2011 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: [MW:13264] Surface roughness measurement instruments.

[Vasantharao]

Dear Mr.Pieper

Thank you for your info.

Could you pl. give the units for measuring the surface roughness. As per my client spec. it is mentioned as microns only.

I think surface appearance after blasting should be SA 2 1/2 or SA 3 and should not be measured in microns.

thank you

Rao

---

From: Pieper QSI <in...@pieper-qsi.nl>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Friday, 23 December 2011 2:07 PM
Subject: RE: [MW:13277] Surface roughness measurement instruments.

[c.no...@vipco-thai.com]

Dear Sir,

From my knowledge , Sa2.5 or SSPC SP10 is level of cleanliness of surface preparation.   Roughness should be the measurement of surface profile which is necessary for adhesion of a certain type of coating.  Normally painting supplier will recommend to have surface preparation meet criteria of both properties to assure his painting performance. ( see attached highlighted clause as sample ).  Very clean surface like Sa3 but not enough profile can create problem but select wrong size of grit can result in unnecessary too deep profile and make painting waste much more than normal.   

Regards,

C.Nopadon

[Serdar Akyuz]

Dear all,

 

As far as I know Sa2,5  indicates the surface cleaness (the rust grade) of the substrate see ISO 8501). Surface roughness calues can be estimated using surface profile comparators (e.g  see  EN ISO 8503)

 

Regards

 

S. Akyuz

 

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pieper QSI

Sent: Friday, December 23, 2011 12:08 PM
To: material...@googlegroups.com

[Pieper QSI]

Dear Mr. Rao,

 

In my previous e-mail I mention that SA is roughness but that was wrong. As already mentioned by some other members SA is cleanness of surface after blasting. Unit for roughness is Ra or Rz, two different values, one measures an average roughness the other the maximum roughness, value to be used should be mentioned in the contract / coating specification. Both Ra and Rz will be measured in microns.

 

Met vriendelijke groeten / Best Regards

 

Herman Pieper

 

Pieper Quality Support & Inspection

Phone: +31 (0)521 380083

Fax:     +31 (0)84 7539225

Cell:     +31 (0)6 51691215

www.pieper-qsi.nl

 

[muthu barathi]

Hi

For measuring surface profile gauge go for

1. Elcometer model 223 Surface profile gauge digital (after blasting)

2. Elcometer DFT model no. 456 for Dry film thickness (after priming /
painting)

3. Elcometer model 319 RH calculator.Dew point to measure dew point ,
surface temp, ambient temp and relative humidity

4. Elcometer model 138 Bresle Set for checking salt contamination.



On Sat, 24 Dec 2011 10:00:35 +0530 wrote

>Dear Mr. Rao,
>
>There are portable surface roughness measuring instruments to measure as
required.
>
>UK based Rank Taylor Hobson instruments are available in India.
>

>SrinivasanSent from BlackBerry® on AirtelFrom: Vasantharao

Sender: material...@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2011 15:38:40 +0530 (IST)To: materials-
wel...@googlegroups.comReplyTo:

material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:13256] Surface roughness measurement instruments.
>Dear Experts,
I work as inspection
Engineer. When i go for Blasting inspection, contractor provided me profile
comparator for surface roughness measurement.
Contractor do Grit blasting in the shop.
I need to measure surface roughness - 75-100 microns Painting system No#1
50-75 microns Painting system No#2

Queries

Q 1: Comparator is enough for surface roughness measurements.
Q2: Is any other tools available for roughness measurement?.
Q3: What is the normal industry practice.


Pl. provide your valuable suggestions as i'm new for painting
activities.

Rao.






--
>
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-

welding+u...@googlegroups.com

>
For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-
welding.blogspot.com/
>
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and
meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t.
applicable code/standard/contract documents.
>



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>
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
>
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-

welding+u...@googlegroups.com

>
For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-
welding.blogspot.com/
>
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and
meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t.
applicable code/standard/contract documents.
>

Dear Sir,





Thanking You,

Honesty is the best Policy

With Warm Regards,

Muthu Barathi P
Mobile No:00962788269821 (Jordan)
00962775401951

Follow Rediff Deal ho jaye! to get exciting offers in your city everyday.

[tamer said]

Dear all, SA 2/12 & SA 3 is only degree of cleanless ant not measured by microns. SA 2/12 near white metal and SA3 is white metal no millscale. --- On Sat, 12/24/11, Pieper QSI <in...@pieper-qsi.nl> wrote:

[Vasantharao]

Dear Experts

I understand from mails of all group members that Surface roughness can be measured with suitable comparator.

However if we want roughness value exactly to be measured, we can ask dial gauges/ digital instruments / Press "O" films etc.

if anybody have other opinions, pl. share the same.

Best regards

Rao.

---

From: Pieper QSI <in...@pieper-qsi.nl>
To: material...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, 24 December 2011 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: [MW:13287] Surface roughness measurement instruments.

[Sharad Sharma]

Hi Rao,

Pls. refer below

SA 2

thorough blast cleaning:Commercial finish 65% clean
The surface shall be free from visible oil, dirt and grease, from poorly adhering mill scale, rust, paint coatings and foreign matter. Any residual contamination should be firmly adhering.

 

SA 2.5

very thorough blast cleaning: Near white metal 85% clean
The surface shall be free from visible oil, dirt and grease, from poorly adhering mill scale, rust, paint coatings and foreign matter. The metal has a greyish colour. Any traces of contamination shall be visible only as slight stains in the form of spots or stripes.

 

SA 3

blast cleaning to pure metal: White metal 100% clean
The surface shall be free from visible oil, dirt and grease, from poorly adhering mill scale, rust, paint coatings and foreign matter. The blasted surface must have a uniform metallic colour.

BLASTING GRADES

Following is a table giving a clear indication of the comparative blasting grades applicable to national and international standards:

BLASTING GRADE COMMON STANDARDS COMPARISON
SSPC steel structures painting council
BS 7079 British standards
SS 05 59 00 Swedish standards
BS 4232
NACE, National Association of Corrosion Engineers


white metal (SP5) SA 3
1st quality
grade 1

near white metal (SP10) SA 2.5
2nd quality
grade 2

commercial finish (SP6) SA 2
3rd quality
grade 3

RUST GRADES

A Surface mostly covered with adherent mill scale, with little or no rust
B Mill scale has begun to flake, rust has started to form
C Mill scale has rusted away or can be scraped off easily and slight pitting has taken place
D Mill scale has rusted away and general pitting can be seen with naked eye

Thanks Regards

Sharad sharma

---

From: Pieper QSI <in...@pieper-qsi.nl>
To: material...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Saturday, 24 December 2011 2:37 PM
Subject: RE: [MW:13287] Surface roughness measurement instruments.

[Ramin Kondori]

Dear Pieper:

Ra or Rz are Units of surface roughness but that's for machining not painting.
In painting, it's microns or mils (25 microns).

Dear Rao:

Press-O-film is the best since it's accurate and records can be supported by tapes, like RT films which are preferred when comparing to UT (after completion of UT one has to trust the report but in RT you can re-check by yourself...!!!).
 

Regards

Ramin Kondori

QA/QC Manager

IRAN-LNG Preoject

NARDIS ENERGY CO.

 

Tel.: +98-772-7462189 (Int.171, 172)

Fax: +98-772-7462179

Cell: +98-913-215-0320

 Add.(Head office): No.27, 6th St., Seyed Jamalledin-e-Asad Abadi Ave., Tehran, Iran, 1431784891

Add.(Site): NARDIS Office, IRAN-LNG Plant, Kangan-Iran P.O.Box 375(Kangan Post Office)

[Pieper QSI]

Dear Mr. Kondori,

 

I don’t think you measure roughness of each separate painting layer when using a multiple layer paint system. So as mentioned by me before the values given by mr. Rao in his first e-mail will be layer thickness instead of roughness. The mentioned values are normal values for the DFT paint values of each separate layer. Ra and Rz can be measured with standard roughness measuring devices, also for blasted surfaces and not only for machined surfaces. I’m aware that in case of blasted surfaces you should measure roughness on different locations in order to get an average value where for machined surfaces the surface will be similar on every location when not changing any machining parameter.

 

Met vriendelijke groeten / Best Regards

 

Herman Pieper

 

Pieper Quality Support & Inspection

Phone: +31 (0)521 380083

Fax:     +31 (0)84 7539225

Cell:     +31 (0)6 51691215

www.pieper-qsi.nl

 

[Vasantharao]

Dear Mr.Pieper

I think i given confusing information, let me clear.

Painting system #1  (Painting in Splashed zone of Jacket)     is  2 coats, roughness required for blasted Pipes before coating is 75-100 microns.

Painting system #2  (Painting in superstructure  i.e Top side) is 4 coats, roughness required for blasted pipes before coating  is 50-75 microns.

I think it will clear you.

Thanks for providing info. &  i got the required info.

V.Rao

[Arun Yadav]

u can check by press-o- film

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 3:38 PM, Vasantharao <vasan...@yahoo.in> wrote: