Hardness for SA516 Grade 70

[RKD]

For a pressure vessel designed with stamped under ASME VIII Div.1, there is a requirement that: "Hardness values should not exceed 200 brinell for the welds / material of shell."

Shell material is specified as SA516 Grade 70.

I am concerned the requirements for hardness and material will automatically require stress relief for all pressure vessel parts.

Would SA516 Grade 70 have hardness lower than 200 Brinell?

Thank you.

Regards,

RKD

[BCK 055]

PWHT is followed spec, and WPS should be shown hardness test value.

Sent from my Blackberry

From: RKD Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2019 17:52 To: Materials & Welding Reply To: material...@googlegroups.com Subject: [MW:29073] Hardness for SA516 Grade 70

--
https://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/122787
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/materials-welding.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[José Juan Jiménez Alejandro]

I was looking for that data in the Code, I could not find it, hopefully someone has better luck and share the hardness data of this steel, with reference to the standard; On the other hand, when a pressure vessel carries the ASME stamp, the Authorized Inspector of the Authorized Inspection Agency necessarily has to intervene with your company has a contract, the Authorized Inspector has the obligation to advise and give you technical support.

--

Ing. José Juan Jiménez Alejandro

ASME Independent Consultant 

and Technical Manager SSI-TPI

Cel. +52 812 352 4606

Skype: jjjimeneza

Twitter: @jjjimeneza

[metmel]

There is no hardness requirement in ASME Section VIII Division 1 for carbon or low alloy steels.  The only hardness requirements are in UF-31(b)(1)(b) for liquid quenched and tempered vessels.  See also Mandatory Appendix 22-4(c).  Never have been.

[RKD]

Agree that the PHWT reqmt shall be per code wrt base metal thickness and WPS shall specify hardness results below project limit of 200 brinell. But about the base metal, do you have info. on typical hardness value of SA516 gr.70? If it is exceeding 200 brinell, we need to change to gr.60.

[J Prinsen]

This 200HB is only mentioned as in delivery condition, not in as welded condition.

As welded hardness depends on chemistry and cooling rate (e.g preheat, heat-input, wall thickness)

Regards

Jurgen Prinsen IWE/MSc

Weld-Tech BV

Welding consultancy and engineering since 1988

---

Van: "José Juan Jiménez Alejandro" <jjjim...@gmail.com>
Aan: material...@googlegroups.com
Verzonden: Zondag 10 februari 2019 18:09:34
Onderwerp: Re: [MW:29081] Hardness for SA516 Grade 70

[munee...@gmail.com]

Greetings,

Refer below interpretations are useful for your subject? as i have very short time i cannot scrutize your subject but still i will get back to you.

Interpretation:                        VIII-81-110

Subject:            Section VIII, Division 1, UCL-34 and Table UCS-56

Date Issued:     November 25, 1981

File:                 BC81-492

 

Question:         Is it required under the provisions of UCL-34 and UCS-56 to postweld heat treat a vessel made of SA-516 Grade 70 base material which is 1 5/16 in. thick, arid has l/4 in. thick integral nickel clad-ding?

 

Reply:              Yes.

Interpretation:                        VIII-1-86-37

Subject:            Section VIII, Division 1; UCS-85, Heat Treatment

Date Issued:     March 5, 1986

File:                 BC85-606

 

Question:         During the fabrication of a nonimpact tested pressure vessel made from SA-516 Grade 70 that is 5 in. thick, normalization of the material is conducted by the fabricator as a part of a hot forming process.  In order to satisfy the requirements of UCS-85:

(a) are mill test specimens required to have the heat treatment associated with the hot forming simulated?

(b) is it required that the manufacturer define for the mill the anticipated cooling rate from the critical temperature during the hot forming operation?

 

Reply:

            (a) Yes.

            (b) Yes.

Interpretation:                        VIII-1-86-222

Subject:            Section VIII, Division 1, UCS-79

Date Issued:     May 11, 1988

File:                 BC88-048

 

Question:         A 2:1 semielliptical head is hot formed by pressing at temperatures in the normalizing range, from SA-516, Grade 70 plate 1.38 in. thick. Is it required that the head be postweld heat treated after forming?

 

Reply:              No.

Interpretation:                        VIII-1-95-37

Subject:            Section VIII, Division 1 (1992 Edition, 1992 Addenda); UW-40(f)(5)(c), and Tables UCS-56 and UHA-32

Date Issued:     January 20, 1995

File:                 BC93-735

 

Question (1):    UW-40(f)(5)(c) in Section VIII, Division 1 states that shell thickness is the controlling value for postweld heat treatment when attached to a flat head. No mention is made of material. A flat head is attached to a shell with a joint as shown in Fig. UG-34(g), with the addition of an integral backup bar. The head is 2 1/2 in. thick and made of SA-516 Grade 70, the shell is 1 1/4 in. thick and made of SA-240 Grade 304. Is it acceptable to weld the shell to head using a 200° F preheat without performing PWHT?

 

Reply (1):        Yes.

 

Question (2):    The same conditions apply as in Question (1) except that the shell material is also of SA-516 Grade 70?

 

Reply (2):        Postweld heat treatment is not a mandatory requirement.

---

Regards,

Mohamed Muneeb Mahaboob

CSWIP 3.2-89247/2 

IRCA-9001:2015 LA

ASNT-NDT-L2-RTFI-RT-UT-MT-PT.

SAP#:70021650 APs:JAPID, QCS & QCI.

E munee...@gmail.com M +91-636-955-7189

''If you know any art by any means then SCULPT IT - no matter how cheap or useless it is - JUST SCULPT IT, you will never know when experts will be on demand'' 

 

From: RKD

Date: 2019-02-10 16:50

To: Materials & Welding

Subject: [MW:29073] Hardness for SA516 Grade 70

For a pressure vessel designed with stamped under ASME VIII Div.1, there is a requirement that: "Hardness values should not exceed 200 brinell for the welds / material of shell."

--

[RKD]

I fully agree Jurgen Prinsen. 

I think on our material specification, we should clearly indicate that the hardness should not be higher than 200 brinell. 

[munee...@gmail.com]

As remembered, even in welded condtions shall not exceed 200 BHN in SA engineering standards,  it is a full package during design as per below requirements where we have to fullfill SAs condition and requirement.

Yes you should have your project approved weld matrix / PMS / LINE LIST which ensured with the requirements.

Welding Requirements for Pressure Vessels -W-01X

Hardness testing is required on production welds for the following applications:
a) For all materials in sour service.
b) For vessels PWHTed for service (see 13.3).
c) Vessels of P-No. 4 or 5 material.
The testing shall be in accordance with NACE RP0472 and the requirements listed below. The testing location and frequency shall be in accordance with NACE RP0472. No exemptions, as allowed in NACE RP0472, are permitted. The maximum allowable hardness for P-No. 1 materials is BHN 200. For all other materials,  it shall be the equivalent hardness  as specified in NACE MR0175/ISO 15156  (equivalent hardness conversions shall be in accordance with     2c3). Welds for external attachments on vessel shells are exempt from hardness testing.

I hope your case does not have any impact except if it is not from above following applications, still we check 10% hardness for sourservice for onplot / pipelines.

---

Regards,

Mohamed Muneeb Mahaboob

CSWIP 3.2-89247/2 

IRCA-9001:2015 LA

ASNT-NDT-L2-RTFI-RT-UT-MT-PT.

SAP#:70021650 APs:JAPID, QCS & QCI.

E munee...@gmail.com M +91-636-955-7189

''If you know any art by any means then SCULPT IT - no matter how cheap or useless it is - JUST SCULPT IT, you will never know when experts will be on demand'' 

From: RKD

Date: 2019-02-12 11:57

To: Materials & Welding

[RKD]

Thank you for the valuable input. I now understand the reference used for this requirement.

Since until now I cannot find reliable source of hardness for SA516 gr.70, I will be needing to discuss this with the Vendor.

If Vendor cannot meet this hardness requirement, we will propose to change to gr.60.

Thank you.

[sandeep kumar]

The hardness of SA516 Gr 70 after welding (in the WM and the HAZ) can easily get above 200BHN depending on many factors such as

1. Using a low HI

2. Using single pass welds

3. In a weld joint welded from both side, the weld hardness of single pass welded after root gauging.

4. Using a alloyed filler wire

The above case based on AW condition although a PWHT will be beneficial in the hardness reduction. It is to be noted that actual base metal hardness will be in the range of 150-170 BHN. A good hardness control in the HAZ can be achieved by increasing the nos. of pass in the weld joints by increasing the travel speed which will give the effect of the TBW (temper bead weld).

Specific to your points, the hardness limit of 200BHN comes due to the use of the vessel in the sour service where it can lead to wet H2S cracking. For us this limit is defined in our engineering specification although this topic is not covered in the Section VIII. NACE MR0175 limit hardness upto 22HRC or 238BHN.

Regards

Sandeep Kumar