WPS on Forged Steel

[Lab]

Dear Friends,

 

In our production unit, we would like to make butt weld between forged steel grade of S355J2G3, a round shaped object. The Third part Inspection (TPI) agency which clears the joint, insists us to perform WPS on similar material before production welding. This particular material was imported from other country long back and we could not thick about WPS when we purchased. It is not possible for us to get the similar material (same grade & same condition) suitable for WPS as well as WPQ and no response from the suppliers when contacted for supply of small quantity.

 

At last one supplier came forward and ready to supply S355J2G3 of rolled and normalized plate.

 

When we went to TPI with the proposal of making WPS with rolled plate, they are not convinced as the properties of forged and rolled steel even after Normalizing, are different and insisting us to do WPS test on forged steel of same grade.

 

Request the forum to provide guidelines to get rid of this situation or from where I get small quantity of material of similar grade, condition in India to arrange for WPS.

 

Regards,

Megnath

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[Pieper QSI]

Dear Sir,

 

I don’t know what your welding specification is but when you speak about S355J2G3 material it seems to me that it will be according to EN-ISO 15614-1 because it’s an European material. For this specification both forged and rolled materials are group 1.2 materials and no difference is made between forged or rolled condition as long as both materials are in the normalized condition. Furthermore Table 3 of this EN-ISO 15614-1 also mentions with note “a”  that a qualification made with a specific material in group 1 also qualifies for materials in the same group with similar or lower specified minimum yield strength.

I know from my experience that forged materials in general have lower yield strength than rolled materials (mostly caused by thicker wall thicknesses) so therefore the TPI is asking things outside the specification and in my opinion they have no right to ask for exactly the same material. Only problem could be when your project specification asks for similar Carbon Equivalent and PCm value for your welding procedure qualification, but this depends on the actual chemical composition of your forged part so you have to check the materials certificate for that.

Hope this will help you a little.

 

Best Regards,

 

J.H.H. Pieper

QA-QC Inspector / IWI-C / IWT / Materials expert

 

Job van der Havestraat 6

8384 DB, Wilhelminaoord

Tel: 06-51691215

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[Saravanan Sornam]

Hi,

 

You can see this Equivalent Grades in this website Steel - Equivalent Grades.mht
and convince them, if all the properties are same as per S355J2G3 material.

 

 

 Also, refer the attached data for BS Material equivalent  to S355J2G3 material.

 

Just try this.

 

Cheers,

Sarav

 

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[Siva Kumar]

Dear Friends,

 

Need clarification regarding Supplementary Requirement of Thermal Stabilization of A213 TP321 tube materials used for heater jobs.

 

As per the requirements of the Licensor, thermal stabilization was carried out for tube materials used for coils in heater.

 

After welding with ER347 and E347 filler metals, thermal stabilization was carried out for the weld and HAZ.

 

I went through the earlier posts that is available in our group. I would like to have clarification regarding the following:

 

Skin Thermocouples are to be welded with the coils. The material of thermocouple is SS310.

 

1. What is the consumable that has to be used for welding the thermocouple SS310 with the A231TP321 tube. Joint would be Fillet.

 

2. Do we need to perform the same Thermal Stabilization for this weld also? If yes what would be the reason?

 

Please advice.

 

Thanks and regards,
 Sivakumar.M.R.

  

[K.Babu]

Dear Maganth,

 

I assume person from the TPI is good in technical.

 

Assume the product may be in the Jack case applications in Shipbuilding or similar applications.

 

In order to reduce the fabrication time , they will go for the forged rather than the 2 pcs then weld again.

 

In that cases, the best way to do welding simulation by welding the actual test pcs by approved WPS.

 

Majority of the cases, the forged company will supply small test pcs from the production heat for the verification to the customer approval

 

If the plate thickness is more than 100 mm , it is suggested to do verification of WPS in actual forged steel materials

 

Since the forged materials , may be less in CVN and elongation , it is better to verify the mechanical properties in the actual pcs after welding by approved WPS.

 

 

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Thanks & regards,

K.Babu

Singapore

[sandeep monody]

Hi...Megnath,

 

I could not understand why TPI needs a separate WPS for rolled plates and forged material, eventhough both are with same grade. If any properties changes with forging and rolling that will not be denoted with same grade number. If you have a MTC for the both material please match it for tensile trength and chemical composition.

 

In ASME sec IX manufacturing process of material is not a variable.

 

Regards,

 

Sandeep.M.V

QC Engineer

[pgoswami]

Hi Siva,

 

Thermal stabilization or stabilization anneal is a "specific process" which is a design basis requirement in Polythionic Acid service environment in refinaries.This form of PWHT is followed to avoid Polythionic SCC(PTSCC) during service. Such requirements needs to be followed for base metal and welds.

 

Usually no further  welding should be done following "Stabilization Anneal". However thermocouple welds (without futher PWHT)  could be an exception provided the depth of the HAZ is only restricted to the skin. It may be required to prove the integrity of "Thermocouple Welding Process", following PWHT with your client/ process licensor.

 

If permitted by client/process licensor, the consumable to be used would be either ER347 or ER-310. The first one (ER 347) would be preferred as the majority of the components are made of S S 321 alloys.

 

Thanks.

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.IWE

Welding & Metallurgical Specialist

Ontario, Canada.

Email-p...@sympatico.ca,

pgos...@quickclic.net

 

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From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Siva Kumar
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 6:45 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:14416] Thermal Stabilization

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[Siva Kumar]

Dear Sir,

 

Thank you for your valuable suggestions.

 

I would like to inform you that the the Heat shield of the Skin Thermocouple and weld pad of SS 310 material will be welded with the SS321 tubes. Fillet weld size would be 3.2mm as per the recommendations of the supplier. Can we convince the client that welding HAZ would not be more so that thermal stabilization would not be required?

 

Further, the client has asked as to weld with ERNiCu-3 bare electrode or ENiCuFe-3 Electrodes. But as per the recommendations you have given its entirely different. On what basis do we choose the filler metal for this materials?

 

Please advice.

 

Thanks and regards,

Sivakumar.M.R.

 

 

From: pgoswami <pgos...@quickclic.net>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Cc: mailm...@yahoo.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 6, 2012 4:39 PM
Subject: [MW:14473] RE: 14416] Thermal Stabilization

Hi Siva,

 

Thermal stabilization or stabilization anneal is a "specific process" which is a design basis requirement in Polythionic Acid service environment in refinaries.This form of PWHT is followed to avoid Polythionic SCC(PTSCC) during service. Such requirements needs to be followed for base metal and welds.

 

Usually no further  welding should be done following "Stabilization Anneal". However thermocouple welds (without futher PWHT)  could be an exception provided the depth of the HAZ is only restricted to the skin. It may be required to prove the integrity of "Thermocouple Welding Process", following PWHT with your client/ process licensor.

 

If permitted by client/process licensor, the consumable to be used would be either ER347 or ER-310. The first one (ER 347) would be preferred as the majority of the components are made of S S 321 alloys.

 

Thanks.

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.IWE

Welding & Metallurgical Specialist

Ontario , Canada .

Email-p...@sympatico.ca,

pgos...@quickclic.net