Impact Test clarification

[mubeen mubeen]

Dear experts, 

Please help out to clear my doubt. 

I have qualified a WPS/PQR with impact -29 deg C, now customer want the WPS/PQR shall be qualified with impact in -46 deg C. Also there is no remaining coupon piece available for impact testing with -46 deg C. 

My question here is, should I weld a coupon and only do impact test as required by customer and attached to PQR will be sort out this issue.? 
or 
Should I REDO a PQR with all mechanical  test which includes Tensile, Hardness, Bend along with impact will sort our this issue.? 

Requesting you to please provide me ASME IX clause reference.

Anticipating for you kind help. 

Thanks & Regards. 
M.K.Mubeen

[george....@gr.bureauveritas.com]

1st option is OK
Best regards
Dr Georgios Dilintas
Authorized Nuclear Inspector
Authorized Inspector Supervisor
HBS Regional Technical Manager

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[james gerald]

Yes you can do a supplementary PQR only for Impact satisfying all the Code requirement.

 

Thanks & Regards

J.Gerald Jayakumar
0091-9344954677

From: mubeen mubeen <mube...@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 3, 2012 6:33 AM

Subject: [MW:15186] Impact Test clarification

[cbe swamym]

Mr.Mubeen,
 
No doubt you have to do re-test @ -46 deg C (PQR) for all the requirments, becuase varying of Heat inputs and welding parameters.

 

Thank & Best Regards,

 

M Veera SAMY- Bureau Veritas.

Coimbatore

 

 
 

---

Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 05:33:37 +0300

Subject: [MW:15186] Impact Test clarification

From: mube...@gmail.com
To: material...@googlegroups.com

[Muhammed Ibrahim PK]

Make a supplementrary coupon with same welding parameters and do impact test. at -46 deg.C and attach with the original PQR.

Thanks & Regards
Muhammed Ibrahim PK

--

[meisam shokri arfaei]

Dear friend

If you have a look through ASME Sec. IX 2010 Ed. in part QW 403.1 Supplementary Essential Variable
(Procedure), you could find your answer in 2nd and 3rd para's.

 

regards

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Tel: +98-21-66282127

Fax: +98-21-66282779

 

Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. BeGreen!

[Vino Varghese]

Dear Mubeen,

 

The impact test coupon can be run with same PQR and send to lab for testing at -46 Deg C.

This should be attached to the existing PQR.

 

Regards

Vino- Doha

--

[sudhakar kuppuswamy]

 

Dear Mubeen,

 

No need to REDO the entire test.

 

You can weld a test coupon by using the existing WPS and only Impact test shall be carried out at -46 deg C.

 

 

Heat input shall be controlled during test coupon welding and H.I values shall not exceeds the previous qualified PQR value and ensure other essential shall be as per previous qualified PQR.

 

As per ASME SEC 09 clauses /tables from QW 252 through QW 266, increase in heat input is a supplementary essential variable. This refers to QW 409.1.

please refer to the above mentioned  clause in  ASME SEC 09.

 

Regards,

Sudhakar.K

--

[Harry Patel]

Dear,

 

Impact testing should be carried out at MDMT temperature. If your Job required impact test on -29 than no need futher impact testing.

--

[c sridhar]

Mr. Mubean,

Agree with what others have said But, before proceeding with another coupon plate welding, please check out,

1. whether the consumables you are using/have used, shall meet the impact
    values at -46 deg C. If not the entire exercise will  become futile.
2. Whether the base metal selected earlier  could meet the said impact norms , if not it may
     not be required to do -46 deg. C  impact for consumables used.
3. ASME sec IX does not ask for hardness  as  such. If you have done hardness test for
    your jobs, you could be following ISO 15614-1 or any equivalent code, then you may
    require impact  for base metal, HAZ apart from the weld zone.
4. Pl. check up before proceeding further.

sridhar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Prakash Hegde]

Hi! My interpretaion given in red Regards Hegde P.B. --- On Mon, 3/9/12, Harry Patel <harry...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Harry Patel <harry...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [MW:15198] Impact Test clarification To: material...@googlegroups.com Date: Monday, 3 September, 2012, 3:59 PM

Dear,   Impact testing should be carried out at MDMT temperature. If your Job required impact test on -29 than no need futher impact testing.

On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 8:03 AM, mubeen mubeen <mube...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear experts,  Please help out to clear my doubt.  I have qualified a WPS/PQR with impact -29 deg C, now customer want the WPS/PQR shall be qualified with impact in -46 deg C. Also there is no remaining coupon piece available for impact testing with -46 deg C.

My question here is, should I weld a coupon and only do impact test as required by customer and attached to PQR will be sort out this issue.? (Yes, you can test only Impact  at minus 46C to add to present PQR by welding a separate test piece However you have to keep the all essential parameters same as the PQR qualified with Impact at minus 29C

or  Should I REDO a PQR with all mechanical  test which includes Tensile, Hardness, Bend along with impact will sort our this issue.?  Requesting you to please provide me ASME IX clause reference. Anticipating for you kind help.  Thanks & Regards.  M.K.Mubeen

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[george....@gr.bureauveritas.com]

I disagree, nowhere ASME VIII -1 is setting any requirement for the filler material as row material. If your impact test is in fully with ASMEVIII-1 requirements you are OK

Best regards
Dr Georgios Dilintas
Authorized Nuclear Inspector
Authorized Inspector Supervisor
HBS Regional Technical Manager

  From: c sridhar [sridh...@yahoo.com]
  Sent: 03/09/2012 21:25 ZE8
  To: "\"material...@googlegroups.com\"" <material...@googlegroups.com>
  Subject: Fw: [MW:15201] Impact Test clarification

Mr. Mubean,

Agree with what others have said But, before proceeding with another coupon plate welding, please check out,

1. whether the consumables you are using/have used, shall meet the impact
    values at -46 deg C. If not the entire exercise will  become futile.
2. Whether the base metal selected earlier  could meet the said impact norms , if not it may
     not be required to do -46 deg. C  impact for consumables used.
3. ASME sec IX does not ask for hardness  as  such. If you have done hardness test for
    your jobs, you could be following ISO 15614-1 or any equivalent code, then you may
    require impact  for base metal, HAZ apart from the weld zone.
4. Pl. check up before proceeding further.

sridhar.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear experts, 

Please help out to clear my doubt. 

I have qualified a WPS/PQR with impact -29 deg C, now customer want the WPS/PQR shall be qualified with impact in -46 deg C. Also there is no remaining coupon piece available for impact testing with -46 deg C. 

My question here is, should I weld a coupon and only do impact test as required by customer and attached to PQR will be sort out this issue.? 

or 
Should I REDO a PQR with all mechanical  test which includes Tensile, Hardness, Bend along with impact will sort our this issue.? 

Requesting you to please provide me ASME IX clause reference.

Anticipating for you kind help. 

Thanks & Regards. 
M.K.Mubeen

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[S DAS Arun RSHT-2]

Dear Muhammed,

 

Can you please explain regarding the supplementary coupon and reference in the code.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Arun S Das

---

 

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Thank you

 

[S DAS Arun RSHT-2]

Dear Sudhakar,

 

Apologies if my understanding is wrong, Sec 9 says that variation in supplementary essential variables require requalification of WPS ref:200.1.C.

 

Hope you will update.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Arun S Das

 

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of sudhakar kuppuswamy

Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 11:49 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com

[sudhakar kuppuswamy]

Dear Arun, 

 

In my previous mail, I have mentioned as, “Only Heat input shall be controlled during test coupon welding and H.I values shall not exceeds the previous qualified PQR value and other essential shall be as per previous qualified PQR”, this means I have suggested Mr. Mubben even not to make any changes in supplementary variable during additional coupon welding.

 

Now coming to ASME SEC 09 QW 200.1.C, it states   “Changes in essential or supplementary essential (when required) variables require requalification of the WPS (new or additional PQRs to support the change in essential or supplementary essential variables).”

 

If heat input values are higher than previous qualified PQR, supplementary essential variable shall be an essential variable as per QW 252 through QW 266. In Mr. Mubeen case only Additional PQR by conducting impact test at -46 Deg C will be suffient.

 

As a good engineering practice to achieve good Impact test results, maximum heat input values should be kept as low as possible.

 

Some clients in oil and gas industries does not allows heat input for Production joint  above  the range qualified in PQR ,when Impact and Sour service requirements are applicable.

 

Hope you understood.

 

 

With regards,

[habEEb raHmAN]

Dear Arun,

 

What you stated below is correct. But here the case is different.Here they  would re do the PQR coupon  just to know the impact value on a lower temperature and to see  if it satisfies the client requirement. 

One thing  they have to make sure  is , all the ranges or  values of the previously qualified parameters remain same .

If there is no changes , no need of re qualification. Anf if it changes , they have to re do the whole test. 

 

Regards,
Habeeb Rahman

SNC

Abudhabi.

 

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Thank you

[Ashish Pathrabe]

Dear Shridhar,

Query on folllwoing points as mentioned (As per your last mail on ) :-

 

1) If 7018-1 is consumables used for WCB & LCB (castinf Form) & is meeting the impact values at -46 deg C.

a) What will the Consumables shall be used for Single V BuTT joint of 2 pieces to be joined for WC6 to WC6 , WC9to WC9 & CF3 to CF3 base Materials?

 

b) Any Special Consumables are used to meet Impact test Values of -29 & -46 Deg C of Above materials as mentioned?

 

Please , reply to my quireies.

 

With Regards,

ASHISH

 

Agree with what others have said But, before proceeding with another coupon plate welding, please check out,

1. whether the consumables you are using/have used, shall meet the impact
    values at -46 deg C. If not the entire exercise will  become futile.
2. Whether the base metal selected earlier  could meet the said impact norms , if not it may
     not be required to do -46 deg. C  impact for consumables used.
3. ASME sec IX does not ask for hardness  as  such. If you have done hardness test for
    your jobs, you could be following ISO 15614-1 or any equivalent code, then you may
    require impact  for base metal, HAZ apart from the weld zone.
4. Pl. check up before proceeding further.

[c sridhar]

Dear Mr. Asish,

With reference to your quires, answers as follows:

1)  If 7018-1 is consumables used for WCB & LCB (casting Form) & is meeting the

     impact  values at -46 deg C.
 

    Welding of A 216-WCB to WCB : SFA-5.1 (AWS-E7016) for SMAW ( alternative

                                                           SFA-5.5 AWS-E7018-A1)                                                                                         

                                                           SFA-5.18 ER70S-6 for TIG

 

    Welding of A 352 LCB  to  LCB : SFA-5.1 (AWS-E7016) for SMAW ( alternative

                                                           SFA-5.5 AWS-E7018-A1)                                                                                         

                                                           SFA-5.18 ER70S-3 or 6 for TIG  (alternatively SFA-5.28 ER70S-A1  

      

2) What will the Consumables shall be used for Single V BuTT joint of 2 pieces to be joined for

    WC6 to WC6 , WC9to WC9 & CF3 to CF3 base Materials?

a) Welding  of A 217 WC6 to WC6 : E 8018 B2 ( for SMAW) and ER 80 T5-B2 (for TIG) are  
    recommended since the base metals are having 1.25 to 1.50 Cr & 0.45 to 0.65 Mo. The
    matching chemistry is important.
   
    Welding  of  A 217 WC9 to WC9 : E 9018 B3 ( for SMAW) and ER 90 T5-B3 (for TIG) are  
    recommended since the base metals are having 2.25 to 2.50 Cr & 0.45 to 0.65 Mo. The
    matching chemistry is important.
    Working Temp. for both are from -30degC to +593 deg. C

     Welding  CF3 to CF3 : E 304L  ( for SMAW) and ER 304L (for TIG) are recommended
     since the base metals are having 19 to 21 Cr and  8 to 12 Ni. The matching chemistry
     is important.

3) Any Special Consumables are used to meet Impact test Values of -29 & -46 Deg C of    

    Above materials as mentioned?

     E 7018 /ER 70 S2 will give impact up to -30deg C.
     E 7018-1 (or) E 8018-1 or E 8018G will give impact up to -46 deg. C.
   

sridhar.

---

From: Ashish Pathrabe <darka...@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 6 September 2012 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [MW:15227] Impact Test clarification

[sevak hiren]

Dear,

Please refer below interpretation,

Interpretation: IX-07-09

Subject:            QW-401.3 and QW-403.6, Thickness Range Qualified for Impact Testing (2007 Edition)

Date Issued:     May 1, 2008

File No:            08-576

 

Background:  A welding procedure qualification was performed on a 1 in. (25 mm) thick test coupon.  Tension and bend tests were performed on the 1 in. (25 mm) plate.  A second welding procedure qualification was performed on a 0.24 in. (6 mm) plate and only impact testing was performed.  All of the essential and supplementary essential variables remained the same except for the coupon thickness.

 

Question:  May the above PQRs be used to support a WPS for materials requiring notch toughness with a qualified thickness range of 0.1875 in. (5 mm) to 2 in. (50 mm)?

 

Reply:  Yes.

 

Also, see

QW-401.3 Supplementary Essential Variable (Procedure).

When a procedure has been previously qualified to satisfy all requirements other than notch toughness, it is then necessary only to prepare an additional test coupon using the same procedure with the same essential variables, but additionally with all of the required supplementary essential variables, with the coupon long enough to provide the necessary notch-toughness specimens.

Conclusion: You need to redo the PQR & only need to perform Impact test at -46 deg C (Weld & HAZ) , with keeping the same essential & supplementary essential variables as per previously done PQR.

Also check the electrode to be used in second PQR can be used or not at -46 deg C as per ASME section IIC.

Regards

Hiren Sevak

--

[sevak hiren]

Dear Experts,

In the same example as per trail mail,

If the test coupon have failed in impact testing only & rest of tests (Tensile,Bend,hardness etc) have passed in a PQR (So WPS is qualified without impact test requirement), then is it required to redo all the mechanical testing (Tensile,Bend,hardness etc) along with impact test or only impact test to be carried out in next PQR to support the previously qualified WPS.

Thanks & Regards

Hiren Sevak

On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 8:03 AM, mubeen mubeen <mube...@gmail.com> wrote:

--

[Ashish Pathrabe]

Dear Expert Team,

Query:-

In the same example as per trail mail,

If the test coupon have failed in impact testing only & rest of tests (Tensile,Bend,hardness etc) have passed in a PQR (So WPS is qualified without impact test requirement),BY Welder A

 

 then is it required to redo all the Welding proocedure (along with impact test & to be carried out in next PQR to support the previously qualified WPS.

"Can We performed or Carry out welding with BY WELDER B "

regards,

Ashish

On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:19 AM, Ashish Pathrabe <darka...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear hiren,

"only impact test to be carried out in next PQR to support the previously qualified WPS".

Ashish P

[c sridhar]

Mr. Asish,

What exactly differs consumables of impact test @-29 to -46 to normal
electrodes.
Whu is is designated like this ?
only beacause of Flux or prices..

a.    Factors contributing to lower temp. are (1) minimum carbon, (2) deoxidation or through killing (3)  fine grain size,

       (4) normalising   or quenching & tempering (5) alloying with nickel (6) addition of Manganese etc. 

       Among them last 2 factors are most effective. This combined with low impurity level will provide impact at -29 to

      100 deg.C..Addition of Ni will help beyond -46 deg. C. This requirement is storage levels like,

       LPG                    20   Deg. C under pressure

       Ammonia        -   30      "                 "

       Propane          -   42      "                 "

       LNG                - 162      "                 "

       Oxygen           - 183      "                 "    and like wise.

What Its (FLUX ncontains ) exactly in Impact test @-29 to -46 welding consumables?hin or Wire in case ofg electrodes..
pls , explain in brief.

a.    Apart from basic (low Hyd.) type flux,  Mn, Ni, and other alloy elements are added through ferrous form i.e.,

       ferro Mn, ferro Ni etc. It is same with filler wires where alloys are added directly .

Sridhar.

---

From: Ashish Pathrabe <darka...@gmail.com>

To: sridh...@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, 18 December 2012 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: [MW:15201] Impact Test clarification

Dear Shridhar Sir,

What exactly differs consumables of impact test @-29 to -46 to normal
electrodes.
Whu is is designated like this ?
only beacause of Flux or prices..

What Its (FLUX contains ) exactly in Impact test @-29 to -46 welding
consumables?
or Wire in case of electrodes..
pls , explain in brief.

With regards,
Ashish P

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