ER316 & E316-16 FOR CRYOGENIC SERVICE

[veloumany siva]

Dear all,

 

 

one of our Client specification says"Qualification on Material Gr.316 also qualifies for Gr.316L but not Vice versa"

 

I want to esatblish WPS for Stainless steel Material Gr.316 (cryogrnic service) as per B31.3

 

 

My query is

 

whether  ER316 for GTAW Process and E316-16 for SMAW  will meet the Impact requirement?

 

 

Regards,

S.Veloumany

 

 

 

 

 

[raghura...@gmail.com]

Sent from my Nokia phone

Dear all,

My query is

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[raghura...@gmail.com]

What is ur MDMT?

[N VENKATESWARA PRASAD]

Hi,

 

What is your impact requirement.  Both electrodes will have same impact strength.  In case stick electrodes if you want better impact properties less than -196C then you should go for E316-15 electrodes as it is lime coated where as 316-16 is rutile,lime coated so its impact properties will be less than E316 -15.

 

regards

 

N.V. PRASAD

WELDING ENGINEER

VELOSI CERTIFICATION, QATAR

prasad_...@yahoo.com

 

 

[Prabhu Kumar L]

Hi Velomany,

 

First of all, I would like to know why do you want to use E/ER316 filler metal for cryogenic application. No restriction that base and filler metal should be same except if application is high temperature, which requires minimum of 0.04% carbon. It is suggested to use low carbon filler metal grades in order to achieve better toughness properties at lower temperatures.

 

I understand that the Client specification restricts only on base material for qualification purpose and not on filler material. You can use E/ER316L filler materials using SS316 base material for qualification. As per B31.3, cl. ref. 323.2.2 (f) (2) (a) and Table 323.2.2, toughness tests are required only for weld metal if MDMT is colder than -101 Deg. C. Also read note no. 2 of Table 323.2.2 for combining production weld test coupon requirements in order to meet the base metal thickness range as specified in Table 323.3.- A (5).

 

For cryogenic application, the deposited weld metal shall have 2-5% delta ferrite in order to meet the toughness at cryogenic temperature (-196 Deg. C). More than 5% would reduce toughness on weld metal (typically it should be 2-3%).

 

In recent past most of the manufacturers are producing duel grade materials that would meet requirements of both the grades such as SS316/316L. However, these materials cannot be used for critical applications such as cryogenic and high temperature etc, it can be used for general applications.

 

Hope it clarifies your query.

 

Regards,

 

L. Prabhu kumar,

Sr. Principal Engineer,

 

Equipments & Materials Dept.,

Saipem India Projects Limited,

Nungambakkam High Road, Chennai - 600 034, India.

Tel:+91 44 43906588, Ext.: 588, Fax:+91 44 66840345,

Mobile Ph. No.: +91 9003010978.

---

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of veloumany siva
Sent: Wednesday, June 02, 2010 8:42 PM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:5355] ER316 & E316-16 FOR CRYOGENIC SERVICE

 

Dear all,

 

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[veloumany siva]

MDMT is -196 degree c

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From: "raghura...@gmail.com" <raghura...@gmail.com>
To: "material...@googlegroups.com" <material...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wed, June 2, 2010 8:27:35 PM
Subject: RE: [MW:5363] ER316 & E316-16 FOR CRYOGENIC SERVICE

[B.Vaithiyanathan]

Dear Veloumany siva,

                                  The Selection of Electrode as suggested by Mr.NV Prasad is suitable for your requirement (GTAW -ER316 & SMAW-E-316-15) provided the FN should be less than 3

Vaithiyanathan,

QA Engineer,

WorleyParsons Arabian Industries(JV)

Oman

With Best Regards

B.Vaithiyanathan

[B.Vaithiyanathan]

Hi Prabhukumar,

                          I hope we need the match the weld metal since due to dilution during welding there will be further pick up of carbon in case of "L" or loss in case of Non" L".Also strength point of view it'l match .It's advised by API RP 598 also 

vaithiyanathan,

QA Engineer,

WorleyParsons Arabian Industries

Oman

[pgoswami]

Hi Velomany,

 

Both 304/304L S.S and 316/316L S.S are well accepted for cryogenic construction up to -196 deg C. However 304/304L is more popular due to the fact that it (BM and WM) provides consistently higher impact properties, than 316/316L. The controlling factor is lower ferrite(typically 2% max) in 308L WM as compared to 5% typical in 316/36L welds.Mo in 316 weld metal promotes higher ferrite.

 

Note:- All brands or batches of the above consumables may not meet -196deg C impact and lateral expansion criteria, you have to specifically look for batch test certificates.

 

Other than Table 323.3.5 -Minimum Required Charpy V-Notch Impact Values, B-31.3 does not provide adequate details on what to look for and how to look  for procedure qualification and production controls.

 

Sec-VIII, DIV-1, UHA-51 provides good educative background on this issue,which could be useful for procedure development and qualification. I had earlier referred that clause while answering a query.

 

The attached information from Kobelco and Metrode would provide you good background information  on consumable selection and writing technical specifications for welding electrodes.

 

Dual certified 316/316L (C-0.03% Max) should be good to qualify for both the specifications and would be the ideal materials for procedure qualification.BM with higher end of "C"-0.08% max have to be carefully screened  for welding.

 

Thanks.

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.

Welding & Metallurgical Engineer/Specialist

Ontario Power Generation Inc.

Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,

pgos...@quickclic.net

 

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From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Prabhu Kumar L
Sent: Thursday, June 03, 2010 2:08 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:5375] RE: 5355] ER316 & E316-16 FOR CRYOGENIC SERVICE

[N VENKATESWARA PRASAD]

Hi,

 

 

You ask the manufactuer about the ferrite no in that particular batch of electrode.  For cryogenic application the ferrite no shall be as less as possible.  But to avoid solidifcation cracking  you should have 3-5FN ferrite content in the weld.  If the ferrite no is around 5 in the electrode, then during welding due to pick of nitrogen it may come down to 3 FN.  Note the ferrite no. depends on the arc length of electrode.  If the arc length is more, then chances of nitrogen pick up will be more, then you will have less ferrite in the weld. ( Nitrogen is austenite stabilizer)  Generaly the ferrite no. changes significationly from root to cap of weld due to change in arc lengths.

[james gerald]

Dear Prasad,   I would prefer to go with 304L material for cryogenic service rather than 316 material. J.GERALD JAYAKUMAR 00919344954677   --- On Sat, 6/5/10, N VENKATESWARA PRASAD <weldeng...@gmail.com> wrote: