requirment of Lateral expansion for P1 TO P8 PQR as ASME Sec IX

[Ankit PAtel]

Dear Experts,

 

We have performed a PQR for 25 thk  plate , P1(SA 516 GR-70 ) To P8(SA 240 TP-316L). These PQR has been stress relieved at 620° C & impact tested at -20°C.

The testing laboratory has noted down only the joule values for the impact test, but they have not noted the Lateral Expansion Values P-8 Material.

The Avg. Joules Values observed are as follows:

Weld-72.67 J

HAZ(GR-70)-35.33J

HAZ(GR-316L)-158 J

PARENT(GR-70)-51.33J

PARENT(GR-316L)-298 J

 

Now our TPI says that for GR-316L Lateral Expansion Values is must for acceptance of the PQR.

Is it so?

Or based on these joules values these PQR can be accepted & used for weld having requirement of impact  test at -20°c

 

 

Thanks & Regards

Ankit Patel
Engineer Quality

 

 

[Nandesh Kumar]

Ankit, Ask your TPI that where the lateral expansion requirements are mentioned as manadatory? ASME B31.3 says about the requirement of LE of P8 steels, but if your project specification includes that value also under acceptance criteria, think about alternative way.....welding and testing a new coupon? Respectfully, Nandesh Kumar --- On Thu, 1/11/12, Ankit PAtel <ankit...@orientalindia.net> wrote:

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[kishor kaku]

Lateral Expansion may be 0.38 mm

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[Vairamuthu Ramar]

Dear Ankit,

The answer to your query is in red color text

Now our TPI says that for GR-316L Lateral Expansion Values is must for acceptance of the PQR.

Is it so?   YES. What TPI says is 100% correct.

Or based on these joules values these PQR can be accepted & used for weld having requirement of impact  test at -20°c? 

BEST OPTION : Please ask the testing laboratory to revise the test report by including the LE value of 316L Grade. By seeing the absorbed energy values 158J & 298J of 316L grade, any one i.e metallurgists could easily convince that surely the LE value must be greater than 1mm for your 316L material. In my experience, i can assure you that definitely the LE value of your PQR's 316L material side must be >1mm. Hence please approach your testing laboratory to revise the test report.

Second Option: No doubt that based on these values this PQR can be definitely accepted  for the weld having requirement of CVN at -20°C as i said above, the LE value must be greater than 1mm in your case. You can convince TPI in that manner but usually TPI needs supporting documents for their justification not verbally but in written. So if TPI not convinced for your verbal answer, the best option is revise the report.

Thanks

Regards

R VAIRAMUTHU

Onshore Projects

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From: ankit...@orientalindia.net
To: material...@googlegroups.com

Subject: [MW:15830] requirment of Lateral expansion for P1 TO P8 PQR as ASME Sec IX

Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 12:28:29 +0530

[Biplab Pal]

Dear Ankit,

 

In my opinion Lateral Expansion value is not mandatory for PQR.

If you see QW-170 of Sec IX, (for Charpy)

 

QW-170 NOTCH-TOUGHNESS TESTS

QW-171 Notch-Toughness Tests — Charpy V-Notch

QW-171.1 General.

Charpy V-notch impact tests shall be made when required by other Sections. Test procedures and apparatus shall conform to the requirements of SA-370.

QW-171.2 Acceptance.

The acceptance criteria shall be in accordance with that Section specifying impact requirements.

If you also go to the SA370 of Sec II part A column 27. (Records)

There is also nothing mensioned about Lateral Expansion.

It may me mandatory for checking the base material but not for PQR.

Anybody have other opinion please refer the code references.

 

 

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Thanks & Regards
Biplab Pal
Welding Inspector

E-mail:   bipla...@gmail.com
 
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[Prakash Hegde]

Hi! As such for SS weld up to minus 104C the Impact test is not mandatory(. Refere all ref mentioned in UG84of sec VIII )(However the test requirement depends upon Client spec .But for any cryogenic temp like  minus 196C it is mandatory to have lateral expansion value of Impact test . As you can not directly  co relate with energy value in Joules   with Lateral expansion Regards Hegde --- On Fri, 2/11/12, Vairamuthu Ramar <vairam...@hotmail.com> wrote:

[Biplab Pal]

Dear Ankit,

 

In addition to the earlier mail i want to add

 

323.3.5 Acceptance Criteria

(c) Weld Impact Test Requirements.

Where two base metals having different required impact energy values are joined by welding, the impact test energy requirements shall conform to the requirements of the base material having a specified minimum tensile strength most closely matching the specified minimum tensile strength of the weld metal.

Nothing says about Lateral Expansion.

 

On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 9:58 AM, Ankit PAtel <ankit...@orientalindia.net> wrote:

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[Karthik]

Hi,

Please refer ASME Section - VIII,division 1 - UHA 51. According to that Lateral Expansion shall be reported on the Impact test report.

07     UHA-51        IMPACT TESTS

 

Impact tests, as prescribed in UHA-51(a), shall be per- formed on materials listed in Table UHA-23 for all combi- nations of materials and minimum design metal temperatures (MDMTs) except as exempted in UHA-51(d), (e), (f), (g), (h), or (i). Impact tests are not required where the maximum obtainable Charpy specimen has a width along the notch less than 0.099 in. (2.5 mm).

UHA-51(a) Required Impact Testing of Base Metal, Heat-Affected Zones, and Weld Metal

UHA-51(a)(1) Impact test shall be made from sets of three specimens. A set shall be tested from the base metal, a set shall be tested from the heat affected zone, and a set shall be tested from the weld metal. Specimens shall be subjected to the same thermal treatments1 as the part or vessel that the specimens represent. Test procedures, size, location, and orientation of the specimens shall be the same as required in UG-84.

UHA-51(a)(2) Each of the three specimens tested in each set shall have a lateral expansion opposite the notch not less than 0.015 in. (0.38 mm) for MDMTs of −320°F (−196°C) and warmer.

 

Thanks & Regards,

(Karthik)

Karthikeyan.S

QA/QC Manager

German-Thai Boiler Engineering Cooperation Limited.

Rayong Factory ;

379 Moo.6 Soi 8, Tambol Pananikom,

Nikompattana, Rayong 21180 THAILAND

Tel : +66 38 897 035-9 Ext. 137

Fax : +66 38 897 034

Hand Phone: 0066 892512282

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From: Biplab Pal <bipla...@googlemail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 3, 2012 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [MW:15841] requirment of Lateral expansion for P1 TO P8 PQR as ASME Sec IX

[Nandesh Kumar]

UHA-1 SCOPE The rules in Part UHA are applicable to pressure vessels and vessel parts that are constructed of high alloy steel and shall be used in conjunction with the general requirements in Subsection A, and with the specific requirements in Subsection B that pertain to the method of fabrication used. Hence, the question originator has to mention the service applicable of the PQR in question. Respectfully, Nandesh Kumar A --- On Sat, 3/11/12, Karthik <karth...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Rajesh...@linde-le.com]

Dear Ankit

In your case MDMT is -20 Deg C , For  Stainless steel ( SA 240 TP 316 L) impact test is not required as per UHA-51.



With Best Regards,

Rajeshkumar C Patel
Principle Engineer - Materials Technology, QA/QC & Standards


Linde Engineering India Pvt. Ltd.
'Linde House'
Opp: VUDA Office, VIP Road, Karelibaug,Vadodara - 390018, India.
Tel.: +91 265 3056706, Fax: +91 265 2335213 , Mobile:  +91 9909953459
Email : rajesh...@linde-le.com,


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[Biplab Pal]

Dear Mr Nandesh,

 

You are absolutely right.

I think in Ankit's case for piping there is not required to mension Lateral Expension for PQR. If his client Std. says they have to do.

Am i right?

[subhankar chakraborty]

as per my knowledge sec ix never asked for le.go through your project piping weld chart if there is anything about le other wise your lab. result must be accepted.

 
Subhankar chakraborty
MOB. +919996399591

[Shanmuganathan Subbiah]

Dear ankit,

 

Please refer ASME sec VIII Div 1 - UG-84(c)2(a)    -as code,lateral exansion shall be reported.

 

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Regards

SHANMUGANATHAN SUBBIAH

[Parag Pansare]

CHECK THE IMPACT TESTED COUPON FROM THE LAB AND MEASURE THE VALUE

REGARDS
PARAG