Casting WPS/PQR

[abbey kangale]

Dear All   I have case for CF8M casting for Valves as per B16.34 which involves welding for internal cage fittment and ... Foudry has done welding and then they carryout subsequent Heat Treatment 1070Deg cel.to satisfy CF8M heat treatment requirement.   When we asked for WPS/PQR foundry has submitted WPS/PQR for welding without PWHT and PQR is qualified without Heat Treatment requirement and for which I had taken a objection .   Can Group advise my objection rersolution and corrective action as casting are ready for valve asssembly for our project   Abhijit

---

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[Shank Vagal]

PWHT is an essential variable; you have to re-run the PQR. --- On Tue, 2/6/09, abbey kangale <abhi...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Sanjay...@fwuk.fwc.com]

First option; Ask the vendor to qualify a WPS with the same type material and heat treatment (sol annealing) as used on the castings.
Second option; if this is a standard practice followed by the vendor since long time than vendor may take guarantee for weld strength and corrosion properties and considering cage only an internal non-pressure component a concession can be granted provided vendor is a reputed one.


Regards,

abbey kangale <abhi...@yahoo.com> Sent by: material...@googlegroups.com 02/06/2009 11:25 AM Please respond to material...@googlegroups.com

To material...@googlegroups.com cc

Subject [MW:2297] Casting WPS/PQR

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[BR]

its tricky issue and and depends on contract, order requirements, i
have similar situation in the past.
there was requirement for few reducing elbows of large size (>36" with
different dia at two ends) on suction side of a pump. since it is a
special item, it is designes as per ASME sec VIII div 1 and order was
placed on a vendor X.

Now vendor X sub ordered it to vendor Y as SA 234 WPB, made from plate
SA516 Gr 70. and got it, up to this stage its fine.

later vendor X welded an out let nozzle in his shop and PWHT'ed the
entire elbow. The vendor Y used a WPS without PWHT for long seam of
elbow. however vendor X used a WPS with PWHT for nozzle welding.
and even got the ASME stamp.

What happened to long seam of the elbow which is subjected PWHT?

On Jun 2, 11:21 am, Shank Vagal <nach_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> PWHT is an essential variable; you have to re-run the PQR.
>

> --- On Tue, 2/6/09, abbey kangale <abhian...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Muni Andy]

Dear Abhijit,
For CF8m Post weld heat treatment is not mandatory.
So you dont have have to worry.
I was with KSB Pumps(Valve division) for 8 years In QA Dept.
Muni

[hegd...@isgec.com]

> Dear Abhijeet
Most of the welding consumables are developed to get properties in as
welded or PWHT below AC1 and not PWHT above AC3 Therefore the component
after welding should be used as welded or by PWHT such as Stress
relieving.
The moment you PWHT above AC3,causes deteoriation in weld properties.
For Weld with normalistion require specially developed consumables with
modification of weld chemistry.(Generally no body prefer)In such case the
qualification of PQR shall be brand specified.This can be developed with
trilas only.
At Godrej steel foundry for different steel grade valves we never used to
renormalise the casting after weld repair. (only SR)

Regards

Hegde P.B.
09714714803

Dear Abhijit,
> For CF8m Post weld heat treatment is not mandatory.
> So you dont have have to worry.
> I was with KSB Pumps(Valve division) for 8 years In QA Dept.
> Muni
>
> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 8:55 AM, abbey kangale <abhi...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear All
>>
>> I have case for CF8M casting for Valves as per B16.34 which involves
>> welding for internal cage fittment and ...
>> Foudry has done welding and then they carryout subsequent Heat Treatment
>> 1070Deg cel.to satisfy CF8M heat treatment requirement.
>>
>> When we asked for WPS/PQR foundry has submitted WPS/PQR for welding
>> without
>> PWHT and PQR is qualified without Heat Treatment requirement and for
>> which I
>> had taken a objection .
>>
>> Can Group advise my objection rersolution and corrective action as
>> casting
>> are ready for valve asssembly for our project
>>
>> Abhijit
>>

>> ------------------------------

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>> Travel Click here! >

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>>
>
> >
>

[hpi001]

Dear Abhijit,

I'm working for two days a week as a consultant at a foundry which
also cast this kind of materials for pump manufacturers. According to
the base material specification, in this case probably ASTM A351
refers to ASTM A488 for welding procedure / performance qualification.
For this specification the heat treatment is an esential variable so
they need to have a qualification including PWHT. An other issue is
the filler metal used. Most filler metal manufacturers don't execute
any testing for their filler metal after performing solution heat
treatment at 1070 - 1130 °C and I know from my expirience that some
materials don't meet the requirements after heat treatment at such
high temperature. I never faced any problems with filler metals for
Austenitic Stainless Steels such as CF8M after solution heat treatment
but for every PQR qualification specification adding and/or deleting
PWHT is an essential variable so I should say don't except it without
a coverning WPS/PQR.

Best regards

Herman Pieper

On 2 jun, 05:25, abbey kangale <abhian...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear All
>  
> I have case for CF8M casting for Valves as per B16.34 which involves welding for internal cage fittment and ...
> Foudry has done welding and then they carryout subsequent Heat Treatment 1070Deg cel.to satisfy CF8M heat treatment requirement.
>  
> When we asked for WPS/PQR foundry has submitted WPS/PQR for welding without PWHT and PQR is qualified without Heat Treatment requirement and for which I had taken a objection .
>  
> Can Group advise my objection rersolution and corrective action as casting are ready for valve asssembly for our project
>  
> Abhijit
>

>       Own a website.Get an unlimited package.Pay next to nothing.*Go tohttp://in.business.yahoo.com/

[hpi001]

Dear Mr Hedge,

For your info, the heat treatment mentioned for this kind of material
it is not called normalising heat treatment but called solution heat
treatment.
What happens during this treatment (when performed well) is that all
kind of negative micro structural issues, such as Chromium Carbides
and Sigma Phase, will be dissolved in the material by which the base
materials corrosion resistance properties increases. After casting
this is required for most Stainless Steels and Duplex Stainless
Steels. At the foundry where I work we don't specify interpass
temperature during welding below 250 °C, which normally is required
for such materials, only because we always execute Solution Heat
Treatment in order to ensure that all undesirable structure contents
will be dissolved.

Best Regards,

Herman Pieper

On 17 jun, 06:35, hegde...@isgec.com wrote:
> > Dear Abhijeet
>
> Most of the welding consumables are developed to get properties in as
> welded or PWHT below AC1 and not PWHT above AC3  Therefore the component
> after welding should be used as welded or by PWHT such as Stress
> relieving.
> The moment you PWHT above AC3,causes deteoriation in weld properties.
> For Weld with normalistion require specially developed consumables with
> modification of weld chemistry.(Generally no body prefer)In such case the
> qualification of PQR shall be brand specified.This can be developed with
> trilas only.
> At Godrej steel foundry for different steel grade valves we never used to
> renormalise the casting after weld repair. (only SR)
>
> Regards
>
> Hegde P.B.
> 09714714803
>
> Dear Abhijit,
>
>
>
> > For CF8m Post weld heat treatment is not mandatory.
> > So you dont have have to worry.
> > I was with KSB Pumps(Valve division) for 8 years In QA Dept.
> > Muni
>

> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 8:55 AM, abbey kangale <abhian...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> Dear All
>
> >> I have case for CF8M casting for Valves as per B16.34 which involves
> >> welding for internal cage fittment and ...
> >> Foudry has done welding and then they carryout subsequent Heat Treatment
> >> 1070Deg cel.to satisfy CF8M heat treatment requirement.
>
> >> When we asked for WPS/PQR foundry has submitted WPS/PQR for welding
> >> without
> >> PWHT and PQR is qualified without Heat Treatment requirement and for
> >> which I
> >> had taken a objection .
>
> >> Can Group advise my objection rersolution and corrective action as
> >> casting
> >> are ready for valve asssembly for our project
>
> >> Abhijit
>
> >> ------------------------------
> >> Explore and discover exciting holidays and getaways with Yahoo! India
> >> Travel Click here! >

> >>  <http://in.rd.yahoo.com/tagline_Travel_1/*http://in.travel.yahoo.com/>- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -
>
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[hegd...@isgec.com]

When the casting is of Stainless steel type ,which under go solution
annealing i.e. heating to 1020C and quench in water.This treatment is
given after casting is fetteled .however the defect repair can be done
after the heat treatment and with suitable welding consumable which does
not require any further S.A. treatment. as weld properties you get are w/o
SA. At the most you can only go for low temp. stress relieving say at
400-450C for longer period..
As far as duplex material you need not go for any further treatment after
weld repair.as duplex structure of Austenite and ferrite to be controlled
with SA treatment, before weld repair. and welding is to be carried with
correct consumable and processAs failure to correct welding parameter will
not give you correct proportion of Ferrite and Austenite.
As for solution annealing to get corect micro strucure You require to
control parameter like Soaking temp ,Soaking time, stablising the temp.
quenching time ,cooling bath temp..Component chemistry,loading of
component in the furnace,Uniformity of temp. in the furnace. etc

Regards

Hegde

[western precicast]

Dear sir,

 

Got very good information for welding of Duplex steel castings. Can you provide us a reference standerd either ASTM or any eqivivalant.

 

Thanks,

S.Shah

 

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