welding procedure qualification requirement for P No.1 Group no 1,2

[LALIT VADADORIYA]

Dear expert,

 

If welding procedure is qualified for the SA 516 Gr.60 to same (P No.1 Group 1 to same), then is it required to conduct another PQR for the SA 516 Gr.70 to same (P No.1 Group 2 to same), if impact requirement is applicable for both material at same temperature?

--

Regards

Lalit Vadadoriya
Sr.Engineer (Inspection)
Engineers India Limited
Dahej Petrochemical Complex,

Dahej (Gujarat)

[Raghuram Bathula]

yes, refer QW403.6

On Jun 21, 1:47 pm, LALIT VADADORIYA <lalit.vadador...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear expert,
>
> If welding procedure is qualified for the SA 516 Gr.60 to same (P No.1
> Group 1 to same), then is it required to conduct another PQR for the SA 516
> Gr.70 to same (P No.1 Group 2 to same), if impact requirement is applicable
> for both material at same temperature?
>
> --
> Regards
>

> *Lalit Vadadoriya
> Sr.Engineer (Inspection)
> Engineers India Limited*
> *Dahej Petrochemical Complex,*
> *Dahej (Gujarat)*

[Jambhale, Rupesh A]

I think its a  QW 403.5

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[Raghuram Bathula]

sorry, typo error, yes it is QW 403.5

On Jun 21, 2:06 pm, "Jambhale, Rupesh A" <Rupesh.Jambh...@mottmac-

[Saravanan Sornam]

Hi,

 

In that case, qualify SA 516 Gr. 60 + 70 in a Single Test Coupon, so that U can have 3 WPSs, P No.1 Gr 1 TO 1, Gr. 1 to 2, Gr. 2 to 2 for Impact tests and U need to test in both Gr.60 HAZ & Gr.70 HAZ additionally, refer spec and codes requirements for Impact testing.

 

 

Refer the below statement from ASME-IX,

 

 

QW-403.5 ( C ) In addition, when base metals of two different
P-Number Group Number combinations are qualified using
a single test coupon, that coupon qualifies the welding of
those two P-Number Group Numbers to themselves as well
as to each other using the variables qualified.

 

 

Regards,
Sarav,

Korea

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[mohd]

Dear experts,

Dear Expert,

1)Two PQR P1 G1 to P1 G1 & P1 G2 to P1 G2 with imapct, Qualified

WPS With Impact P1G1 to P1G2 Ans : Yes Or NO.

2) PQR P1G1 to P1G2 with Impact,Qualified Following WPS,

a) P1G1 to P1G1 with Imapact Ans Yes Or NO
b) P1G2 to P1G2 with Impact Ans Yes or No.

I thinks these answer more clarified Mr lalit Querry.

Thanks,
Mohd.


On Jun 21, 9:47 am, LALIT VADADORIYA <lalit.vadador...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear expert,
>
> If welding procedure is qualified for the SA 516 Gr.60 to same (P No.1
> Group 1 to same), then is it required to conduct another PQR for the SA 516
> Gr.70 to same (P No.1 Group 2 to same), if impact requirement is applicable
> for both material at same temperature?
>
> --
> Regards
>

> *Lalit Vadadoriya
> Sr.Engineer (Inspection)

[samshuddin k]

1. No
2. Yes

[John Henning]

The basic assumption is that you are qualifying in accordance with ASME Section IX.

Then, when impacts are required, supplementary essential variable 403.5 applies:

Q1. Is answered by the portion of QW-403.5 in the following section:
"For ferrous materials in QW/QB-422 a procedure qualification shall be made for each P-Number Group-Number combination of base metals, even though procedure qualification tests have been made for each of the two base metals welded to itself."

There is an exception provided in the next sentence:
"If, however, two or more qualification records have the same essential and supplementary essential variables, except that the base metals are assigned to different Group-Numbers with in the same P-Number, then the combination of base metals is also qualified."
I have found this to be a difficult requirement to satisfy.

Q2. Is answered in the subsequent sentence of QW-403.5:
"In addition, when base metals of two different P-Number Group-Number combinations are qualified using a single test coupon, that coupon qualifies the welding of those two P-Number Group-Numbers to themselves as well as to each other using the variables qualified."

Therefore . . . Q1 is NO, and Q2(a) is YES, Q2(b) is YES.

John A. Henning
Welding & Materials

-----Original Message-----
From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mohd
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 3:40 AM
To: Materials & Welding

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[Sateesh Babu E]

1.NO
2.YES

[sevak hiren]

Yes, onother PQR is required e.g. 516 Gr.70 To 516 Gr.70 for your case.........

, as you already have PQR for 516 Gr.60 To 516 Gr.60 , then 516 Gr.70 To 516 Gr.70 PQR will allow you to weld 516 Gr.70 To 516 Gr.70, 516 Gr.60 To 516 Gr.60 & 516 Gr.60 To 516 Gr.70

 

If your previous PQR was done with 516 Gr.60 To 516 Gr.70, then you could have been allowed to weld 516 Gr.70 To 516 Gr.70, 516 Gr.60 To 516 Gr.60 & 516 Gr.60 To 516 Gr.70 for subject case.

 

 

[sevak hiren]

On Fri, Jun 22, 2012 at 2:10 PM, mohd <mohd...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear experts,

Dear Expert,

1)Two PQR P1 G1 to P1 G1 & P1 G2 to P1 G2 with imapct, Qualified

 WPS With Impact P1G1 to P1G2 Ans : Yes Or NO.

 

Ans: Yes

2) PQR P1G1 to P1G2 with Impact,Qualified Following WPS,

  a) P1G1 to P1G1 with Imapact  Ans Yes Or NO

 

Ans: Yes

 

  b) P1G2 to P1G2 with Impact   Ans Yes or No.

 

 

Ans: Yes

I thinks these answer more clarified Mr lalit Querry.

Thanks,
Mohd.


On Jun 21, 9:47 am, LALIT VADADORIYA <lalit.vadador...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Dear expert,
>
> If welding procedure is qualified for the SA 516 Gr.60 to same (P No.1
> Group 1 to same), then is it required to conduct another PQR for the SA 516
> Gr.70 to same (P No.1 Group 2 to same), if impact requirement is applicable
> for both material at same temperature?

>
> --
> Regards
>
> *Lalit Vadadoriya
> Sr.Engineer (Inspection)
> Engineers India Limited*
> *Dahej Petrochemical Complex,*
> *Dahej (Gujarat)*

[Prakash Hegde]

Hi! Generally to avoid more PQR qualification ,, while qualifying PQR of P1 Gr1 and P1 Gr2 instead of qualifying TWO separate PQR It is better to Qualify PQR onone  testcoupon having one of the plates of P1 Gr1 and other plate of P1 Gr2  and for Impact test, test Weld , HAZ of both side i.e. P1Gr2 , and P1 Gr1 With these testing the PQR is qualified for a)P1 Gr1 to itself b) P1 Gr 2 to it self Satisfying all essential and supplimentary esentials   Regards   Hegde P.B.     --- On Fri, 22/6/12, samshuddin k <sam....@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Kavin202082]

Nope , u need to qualify P1 G1 to P1 G2 supplementry essential. Once u qualify tis It wil cover P1 G1 TO P1 G1, P1G2 TO P1 G2 AND P1G1 TO P1G2.Combination of g1 &g2 in one pqr req, nt combination of both pqr


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> w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
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[Himan Nikdin]

As per QW-403;

“If, however, two or more qualification records have the same essential and supplementary essential variables, except that the base metals are assigned to different Group Numbers within the same P-Number, then the combination of base metals is also qualified. In addition, when base metals of two different P-Number Group Number combinations are qualified using a single test coupon, that coupon qualifies the welding of those two P-Number Group Numbers to themselves as well as to each other using the variables qualified.”

So the answer of Q1 is "No" and Q2 is "Yes".

Regards

Himan

[Kavin Murugam]

Can , The lower the temperature the more its brittle

 

Regards,

Kavin Murugam

0126159644

 

From: SUBHANKAR CHAKRABORTY <subh....@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2012 12:15 PM
Subject: [MW:14701] Re: welding procedure qualification requirement for P No.1 Group no 1,2

Dear Exparts,

CAN ANYBODY EXPLAIN ME IF A PQR P1G2 ~ P1G2 QUALIFIED WITH IMPACT AT -48 DEGREE,IS IT SUPPORT A WPS P1G2 ~ P1G2 WITH IMPACT AT -29?

 

SUBHANKAR CHAKRABORTY

[c sridhar]

Dear Mr. Lalit,

Any change in P nos (or) Group nos requires re qualification as per sec. IX of ASME.

sridhar.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Subhankar,

Since your P1 Gr.2 is qualified for impact at -48 deg. C  then it is qualified for temp. -29 deg C. as the P nos and Group  nos are same.

sridhar.

---

From: Kavin Murugam <kavin...@yahoo.com>
To: "material...@googlegroups.com" <material...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 28 June 2012 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [MW:14713] Re: welding procedure qualification requirement for P No.1 Group no 1,2