Grinding or filling is allowed on Final pass (on capping) for WPQT ? Urgent plse..
Sathish Kumar
Dear Experts,
Please advice.
whether Grinding or filling is allowed on Final pass (on capping) for Welder performance qualification test (WPQT) for Plate or Pipe. Since qualification is done based on ASME Sec 9, so i need reference only as per ASME Sec 9.
Also already i referred ASME Sec 9 - QW194, which only mentions the Complete joint penetration for visual examination for WPQT. But it is not more specific in case of Grinding or filling and also some other (acceptable limits ? )parameters like Reinforcement, undercut, underfill etc..
I need only Asme Sec 9 reference, because as per the project contract only Asme Sec 9 is applicable for our project in case of WPQT.
please advice guys..
sathish. K
Welding inspector.
Jubail, Saudi arabia.
mohd
Cleaning is allowed.after capping,filling&repairing on weld are not
allowed.
Regards,
Mohd.
Vidhyapathi Bharad
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c sridhar
From: Sathish Kumar <sathis...@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 27 December 2012 2:37 PM
Subject: [MW:16349] Grinding or filling is allowed on Final pass (on capping) for WPQT ? Urgent plse..
binu valiyaveeedu
It may mention in wps the method for interpass cleaning, it can be followed for cleaning the completed joint...but for wqt normally none of the inspectors will not allow ( even contractors) becoz to insure the quality of welders...if a welder who is not able to deliver a sound weld, pass wqt, will be more headache for the welding inspector and the contracting company itself...so better not to allow..
Regards,
Binu valiyaveedu
--
Nandesh Kumar
| ASME Sec IX do not address this issue. As far as I know, the only code which allows grinding of completed welds is AWS D1.5 - 2002 (Bridge Welding Code) See Clause 3.2.2.1, 2nd para, Point # 4. (4) grinding the completed weld smooth and flush with the adjacent surface to produce a workmanlike finish (see 3.6.3). Further, 3.6.3 says : Unless otherwise approved by the Engineer, all reinforcement shall be removed where the weld forms a part of a faying surface. Any reinforcement shall blend smoothly into the plate surfaces with transition areas free from weld edge undercut. Chipping may be used, provided it is followed by grinding. IMO, grinding of the completed welds should be applicable only for ( including as suggested by C Sridhar) removing sharp notches, bulbous contours, overlaps only with prior approval and presence of concerned Inspector/Engineer, especially qualification welds. No welder should be allowed to grind the completed welds on their own, as they make it mess sometimes. I have seen welders try to "remove" external undercuts by grinding the base metal and bringing it to the level of surface of undercut, which may reduce the minimum specified wall thickness of the base metal. Filing a completed weld for good visual appearance, is not a problem, I think. I'm also waiting for opinion of the experts of this forum. ವಂದನೆಗಳೊಂದಿಗೆ / Best regards, Nandesh Kumar A Abu Dhabi, UAE P.S. : Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. --- On Thu, 27/12/12, c sridhar <sridh...@yahoo.com> wrote: |
Vijay....@akersolutions.com
Hello Nandesh,
Continuing the subject, you mention that -
Filing a completed weld for good visual appearance, is not a problem, I think.
Consider a situation where Fatigue Grinding is required on production welding. The joint is visual and NDT Tested and accepted with all examination.
However during grinding due to poor grinding skill, it is excavated more than requirement and results in lesser wall thickness.
Is this case shall be consider as “repair welding” There is no issue with the welding however it is now require to be “re-weld” or refill of cap.
Provide your view.
Best regards,
Vijay Tayade
Welding Engineer | Materials Technology
Aker Solutions
Tel: +91 20 6691 8929 (60
18929) | Mob: +91 9960599789
vijay....@akersolutions.com | www.akersolutions.com
Aker Powergas Subsea Pvt Ltd
Visiting address: IT-2 Blue Ridge SEZ, Hinjewadi, 411057 Pune, India
Registered in India, CIN : U74990MH2010PTC210736
Ibrahem Waheed (ISS Mechanical lab)
Dears
I will add one more point.
As per ASME IX ,welder can be qualified either through RT or bend test. In the bend test notes you will find that the reinforcement shall be removed before bend test (2010 edition)/Recommended to be removed before bend test (2013 edition).
So, I think it is not an issue
Regards
Ibrahem Waheed Moustafa
ISS Mechanical Lab Manager
Industrial Support Services Company
One of Al-Bassam Group of Companies
Jubail Dahran highway | Opp Dammam Television Complex
Post Box 11501 | Dammam 31463 | Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
T: 966 3 8227486 ext: 333 | F: 966 3 8228296
Mob: 966 0598927974 |ibra...@issndt.com
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george....@gr.bureauveritas.com
Generally we consider as repair any intervention after final V.I / NDE.
If the welder himself is "adjusting" the weld appearance, this is not considered a repair
- best regards
Dr. Georgios Dilintas
Authorized Nuclear Inspector
Authorized Inspector Supervisor
I&F REGIONAL TECHNICAL MANAGER
BUREAU VERITAS HELLAS
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Fax: +30 210 40 63 118
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(See attached file: Dilintas_George.vcf)
---03/12/2014 05:44:37---Hello Nandesh, Continuing the subject, you mention that -
Provide your view.
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Vijay....@akersolutions.com
Hello Sir,
Sorry for diverting the subject from Welder qualification to Production welding.
Can you please put light on below question –
Consider a situation where Fatigue Grinding is required on production welding. The joint is visual and NDT Tested and accepted with all examination.
However during grinding due to poor grinding skill, it is excavated more than requirement and results in lesser wall thickness.
Is this case shall be consider as “repair welding”? Or welding parameter as per original WPS are allowed to be used for welding three new bead and meet the required wall thickness.
Pipe Wall thickness is 24.4mm,
Best regards,
Vijay Tayade
Welding Engineer | Materials Technology
Aker Solutions
Tel: +91 20 6691 8929 (60
18929) | Mob: +91 9960599789
vijay....@akersolutions.com | www.akersolutions.com
Aker Powergas Subsea Pvt Ltd
Visiting address: IT-2 Blue Ridge SEZ, Hinjewadi, 411057 Pune, India
Registered in India, CIN : U74990MH2010PTC210736
From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of george....@gr.bureauveritas.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 7:52 PM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Karthik
Can You Put light on Below please question -.
Pipe Wall thickness is 24.4mm,
Vijay Tayade
Welding Engineer | Materials Technology
Aker Subsea Powergas Pvt Ltd
Visiting address: IT-2 Blue Ridge SEZ, Hinjewadi, Pune 411057,. India
Registered in India, CIN: U74990MH2010PTC210736.
If The welder himself is "Adjusting" The WELD appearance, this is Not considered a Repair.
(See attached file: Dilintas_George.vcf. )
12.3.2014 5:44:37 --- --- Hello Nandesh, Continuing The subject, You mention that - To: < Material...@googlegroups.com >
Date. : 03.12.2014 5:44
Subject: RE: [MW: 22436] Grinding or Filling is allowed on Final Pass (on capping) for WPQT? Plse urgent ..
Sent by: Material...@googlegroups.com.
Hello Nandesh,
Vijay Tayade
Welding Engineer | Materials Technology
Aker Solutions.
Tel: +91 20 6691 8929 ( 60 18929) | Mob: +91 9960599789
Aker Subsea Powergas Pvt Ltd
Visiting address: IT-2 Blue Ridge SEZ, Hinjewadi, Pune 411057,. India
Registered in India, CIN: U74990MH2010PTC210736.
Sent: Friday, December 28, in 2012 two thirty-four PM
To: Material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re:. [MW: 16356] Grinding or filling is allowed on Final pass (on capping) for WPQT? Urgent plse ..
|
Not ASME Sec IX do address this Issue.
As Far As I know, The only code which allows grinding of welds is completed AWS D1.5 - 2002nd (Bridge Welding Postnummer) See Clause 3.2.2.1, 2nd Para, Point # 4.
(. 4) The completed WELD Smooth grinding and Flush with The surface adjacent
to Produce a liable Finish (See 3.6.3).
Further, 3.6.3 says: Unless otherwise approved by The Engineer, all Reinforcement
Shall be removed Where The WELD forms a Part. of a faying surface. Reinforcement any Shall smoothly Blend Into The Plate surfaces with transition areas free from WELD EDGE
undercut. Chipping May be Used, Provided it is followed by grinding.
IMO, grinding of The completed welds should be applicable only for (including As SUGGESTED by C Sridhar) removing sharp notches, Bulbous Contours, overlaps only with Prior Approval and Presence of Concerned Inspector /. engineer, especially Qualification welds.
No welder should be allowed to Grind The completed welds on their own, As they Mess Make it sometimes. I Have seen welders TRY to "Remove" external undercuts by grinding The Base Metal and Bringing it to The Level of surface of undercut, which May Reduce The Minimum specified Wall Thickness of The Base Metal.
Filing a completed WELD for good Visual appearance, is. Not a problem, I Think.
I'm also Waiting for The Opinion of Experts of this Forum.
ವಂದನೆಗಳೊಂದಿಗೆ / Best regards,
Nandesh Kumar A
Abu Dhabi, UAE.
PS: Please do not print this e-mail unless you really need to.
|
|
From: C Sridhar < Sridh...@yahoo.com > Subject: Re: [MW: 16353] Grinding or Filling is allowed on Final Pass (on capping) for WPQT? Plse urgent .. To: " Material...@googlegroups.com "< Material...@googlegroups.com > Date: Thursday, 27 December, in 2012, four forty-three PM. Mr. Sathis kumar,
Codes do not specify about the grinding & filling, on not only final but even in filler passes. It is the discrepancy
of the Inspection authority who witnesses the test. Some allow it while few do not. They feel it is lack of skill on the part of the welder concerned if he is allowed to grind such surface defect.
But, it need not be a fact. Say if it is a surface pore due to sudden breeze or to other reasons where welder is not at fault, he takes the Inspector into confidence to remove such defects by grinding or other means. So it is a selective thinking.
|
More attention is given in initial visual inspection for root defects like. LP, LF, UC, Ex. Penetration, Oxidation (in TIG process), Cavities, under flush etc., than on surface defects on cap runs.
Sridhar.
|
|
From: Sathish Kumar < Sathis...@gmail.com > To: Material...@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, 27 December 2 012 two thirty-seven PM Subject: [MW: 16349] Grinding or Filling is allowed on Final Pass (on capping). for WPQT? Urgent plse .. |
Dear Experts,
Please Advice. Whether or Filling Grinding is allowed on Final Pass (on capping) for Welder Performance Qualification test (WPQT) for Plate or Pipe. Since Qualification is done based on ASME Sec 9, So I Need As Per ASME Sec 9 reference only. Also I referred Already ASME Sec 9 - QW194, which only Mentions The Complete Joint penetration for Visual Examination for WPQT. But it is more Not Specific in Case of Grinding or Filling and also some Other (Acceptable limits?) Parameters like Reinforcement, undercut, underfill etc .. I Need reference only Asme Sec 9, Because As Per The project contract is only Asme Sec 9. applicable for our project in Case of WPQT. Advice please guys .. Thanks in advance ..
Regards Sathish. K |
Welding inspector. Jubail, Saudi arabia. |
|
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