USE of PQR of GTAW+SMAW for new WPS GTAW process only.

[Parveen Kumar Nakwal]

Dear Experts,

Can we use S.S to S.S 8mm base metal thickness PQR of GTAW (3mm)+SMAW (5mm) for the making for new WPS of S.S to S.S with GTAW only, with 2mm base metal thickness only ? 

Waiting for reply..

Regards.

Parveen K. Nakwal

[suresh kumar]

u can make wps for this PQR as per ASME SEC IX, QW 431 I THINK//// U CAN USE NO PROBLEM

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[sankar bombay]

Dear friend,

    If u go for gtaw it will cover min 3mm in pqr... then means u can use the wps upto gtaw 9mm,

 

Regards

Sankar.k

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[Himangshu Das]

Dear Sir,
Unable to clarify as it is not mentioned whether the PQR is qualified on a groove joint or fillet joint. Also it is not clear that the new WPS proposed to be supported by the PQR qualified is meant for welding groove joints or fillet joints.

H. Das




On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:21:04 +0530 wrote

>Dear Experts,
Can we use S.S to S.S 8mm base metal thickness PQR of GTAW (3mm)+SMAW (5mm) for the making for new WPS of S.S to S.S with GTAW only, with 2mm base metal thickness only ? 

Waiting for reply..

Regards.Parveen K. Nakwal

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[Parveen Kumar Nakwal]

Dear Sir,

 

S.S to S.S PQR 8mm thickness GTAW(3mm)+SMAW(5mm) is qualified with groove weld, and

 

The proposed WPS is with GTAW for groove weld & our job thickness is 2mm,3mm,4mm. Can we use above mentioned PQR for this JOB thickness ? please Clarify. 

 

Waiting for reply.

[yanfei Xiu]

Here is the answer for you as per ASME QW-451

1.the applicable range of thickness of BM is 1.5 to 6mm

2.the applicable range of thickness of Weld Metal is 0 to 6mm

regards,

Devin

2012/6/13 Himangshu Das <himangsh...@rediffmail.com>

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[Saravanan Sornam]

Hi Friends ,

 

As per ASME-IX QW-451.1 Table,

 

as per your ( Praveen Nakwal ) below mail info, the PQR Plate thk is 8 T and GTAW-3mm, SMAW-5mm deposited weld thk. ( t )  in PQR,

 

If PQR is 8T, then the base metal range qualified in WPS 1.5 to 16 T,

 

Also in WPS, GTAW weldmetal thk of Max 6 mm and SMAW of Max 10 mm is accepted.

 

So, there is no problem to weld by using GTAW for 2, 3, 4 mm BM thk., can write a separate WPS with GTAW only.

 

You can have 3 WPSs from this PQR, 1WPS for GT+SM combination,  1 WPS for GTAW only with Purging Gas, 1 WPS for SMAW only with backing plate or double side welds.

 

For lower thk basemetals in job, use lower size filler metals to avoid high current. For 2 mm plate, better use 1.6 dia GTAW filler with the parameters recommended by the manufacturer.

 

But ensure that, U have given Purging Gas for SS during PQ test, should be followed in WPS and job welds.

 

Also refer ASME-IX QW-200.2 (f)  Multiple WPSs With One PQR / Multiple PQRs With One WPS.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Cheers,

Saravanan,

S.Korea

[mohd]

Dear all,

if you go through 200.4(b) For GTAW, SMAW, GMAW, PAW, and SAW,
or combinations of these processes, a PQR for a process
recording a test coupon that was at least 1⁄2 in. (13 mm) is required
hence u cant creat two WPS.

Regrds,
Mohammed-AI-WI.

[Saravanan Sornam]

Dear Friend,

Just for Ur Info,

what U mentioned below is for 2 PQRs having different process, for ex, PQR 1 is GTAW of 13mm T and PQR 2 of FCAW, then U can use GTAW for root welds for combination.

But the below enquiry is made for GTAW + SMAW welded in single PQR of 8T.

This condition is different, refer ASME-IX QW 200.2 (f).

Best Regards,

Sarav,

Korea

[kalyan vvv]

Dear Mr praveen,

                        Yes u can use it for the thickness range of 1.5to6mm with GTAW process and 2.5to10mm with SMAW process.

 

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THANKS & REGARDS

KALYAN VVV

WELDING EXECUTIVE ENGINEER

HYDERABAD

[ahm...@yahoo.com]

-----Original Message-----
From: mohd
Sent: 15/06/2012, 9:53 am
To: Materials & Welding
Subject: [MW:14556] Re: USE of PQR of GTAW+SMAW for new WPS GTAW process only.


Dear all,

if you go through 200.4(b) For GTAW, SMAW, GMAW, PAW, and SAW,
or combinations of these processes, a PQR for a process
recording a test coupon that was at least 1⁄2 in. (13 mm) is required
hence u cant creat two WPS.

Regrds,
Mohammed-AI-WI.

[John Henning]

Mr. Mohammed-Al-Wi,

Respectfully, you response is incorrect for the situation described. I believe Mr. Nakwal is asking if he can take a PQR performed with two process and split them into two separate WPS's, one for each process. This can be done per the last paragraph of QW-200.4(a) which states;
"When following a WPS that has more than one welding process, filler metal or set of variables, each process filler metal, or set of variables may be used individually or in different combinations provided (1) the essential, non-essential, and required supplementary essential variables associated with the process, filler metal, or set of variables are applied (2) the base metal and deposited weld metal thickness limits of QW-451 for each process , filler metal, or set of variables are applied.

So, Mr. Nakwal has a PQR performed on base metal 8mm thick, with 3mm GTAW deposited metal and 5mm SMAW deposited metal.

Per QW451.1, it qualifies for GTAW: Base metal thickness 1.5mm ~ 16mm, and deposited GTAW filler metal to a maximum of 6mm
And it qualifies for SMAW: Base metal thickness 1.5mm ~ 16mm, and deposited SMAW filler metal to a maximum of 10mm

I suggest looking at Interpretations IX-78-47, IX-86-23 Q1 & Q2, IX-95-10, and IX-04-08. In addition, you might want to look at Interpretations IX-81-32, IX-86-01 and IX92-97.

QW-200.4(b) applies only when trying to COMBINE two PQR's with into a single PQR, where a minimum of 13mm must be welded with the root process in order to "ride along" with the fill process to the maximum that fill process is qualified for. An example would be a GTAW PQR with 13mm thickness combined with a SAW PQR with 38mm thickness to yield a WPS with a GTAW root and SAW fill qualified to for base metal thickness range of 5mm to 200mm. The GTAW process in this example would be limited to a deposited thickness of 26mm.

Let me know if you have any questions.

John A. Henning
Welding & Materials

Dear all,

Regrds,
Mohammed-AI-WI.

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[mohd]

Dear JohnSir,

Thanks for this detail reply.this would be really helpful for day to
come.Actually 200.4(b) bit confused me.


regards,
mohd.

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[yash yagnik]

Dear Mr John,

Your reply is absolutely spot on and only thing required to add into this is :

For QW 200.4 (b) in regards the example explained by you for GTAW and SAW process : GTAW PQR with 13mm thickness combined with a SAW PQR - it is mandatory requirement that SAW process PQR shall have greater thickness than GTAW PQR base metal , hence it shall be greater than 13mm.

I hope this is correct and inline with ASME SECTION IX.

Please share your views if any.

Regards

Yash Yagnik

[John Henning]

You are correct.  Per QW-200.4(b), the fill process PQR/WPS must be thicker than that for the root process.

 

John A. Henning

Welding & Materials

 

[sevak hiren]

Two different PQRs e.g. One GTAW Process only - Thk.8 mm & One SMAW Process only - Thk.8 mm 

 

Can these two PQRs be combined to creat One WPS for GTAW + SMAW ?

 

If yes then what will be the thk. range qualified ? 

 

Is it a must requirement as per Section IX that a minimum of 13mm must be welded with the root process in order to "ride along" with the fill process to the maximum that fill process is qualified for ?

On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 1:47 AM, John Henning <jhen...@deltak.com> wrote:

[John Henning]

Yes. These can be combined.  I assume that for both PQRs the base metal thickness was the same as the filler metal thickness, 8mm.

 

You then have a WPS qualified for base metal thickness (QW-451.1) 1.5mm to 16mm and each process qualified to a maximum deposit thickness of 16mm. 

 

Such a WPS could be convenient since the amount of GTAW and SAW within a joint that is 16mm or less is not limited.  At the extreme, the same WPS could be used to deposit the complete joint with GTAW or the entire joint could be done by SAW (assuming you have allowed for back gouging and back welding on the WPS).

 

 

John A. Henning

Welding & Materials

 

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of sevak hiren

Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 8:03 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com

[sevak hiren]

Thanks a lot sir for this clarification.

 

I got most of the reviews that you can not combine two different welding process PQRs which are less than 13 mm thk, which is wrong assumption as per your clarification.

Futher I would like to ask this question.

 

Two different PQRs e.g. One GTAW Process only - Thk.8 mm & One SMAW Process only - Thk.12 mm (Both without impact test requirement)

 

Can these two PQRs be combined to creat One WPS for GTAW + SMAW ?

 

If yes then what will be the thk. range qualified for Base Metal ? 

 

Is it 1.5 To 24 mm OR 5 mm To 16 mm ?

 

Thanks once again in advance.

[John Henning]

Yes they may be combined.  In this case the maximum base metal thickness will be governed by the most limiting qualified process thickness.  This can, as in this case, result in one process governing the lower bound and the other process governing the upper bound.

 

Since SMAW cannot be used to weld base metals with thickness less than 5mm, it is the lower bound for the combined WPS.

 

Since GTAW cannot be used to weld base metals with thickness greater than 16mm it is the upper bound for the combined WPS.

 

Hope this is clearer.

[Aly]

No need combine; you can use both wps individually on single joint..........   Why 2 wps are combined  is to get benefit on thickness range...   In your case , GTAW PQR thickness Base metal is less than 1/2'' (13mm) so you can not get thickness range extension ....   If you have GTAW PQR with base metal thk 13mm & SMAW with Base metal 25mm; by combining these two PQR on one WPS you can weld GTAW on Base metal upto 5omm....   Refer QW 200.4 (b).....    Aly   -------Original Message-------