RE: 3238] Shelf life of Low hydrogen electrodes
Bathula Raghuram (Mumbai - PIPING)
Consult the consumable manufacturer, may be shelf life revalidated with additional testing. Code does not specify the shelf life, but the manufacturer does.
From: material...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Ravindra T
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009
3:28 PM
To:
material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:3238] Shelf life of
Low hydrogen electrodes
Dear All
Our contractor has brought low hydrogen electrodes (E 7018 & 8018) which are manufactured in 2007 for welding station piping in one of our intermediate pump station of our cross country pipeline project. I would like to know whether these electrodes can be used now?. Is there any reference in ASME code regarding the expiry/ shelf life of Electrodes?
Please advise me in this regard.
Thanking you all in advance
Ravindra
Senior Project Engineer
claes.g...@esab.se
If the electrodes are packed in air tight packages they can be used right away. If not, redry the electrodes in the way the manufacturer recommends, normally at a temperature around 300 - 350 °C.
Air tight packages are for example vacuum packages. If such a package is damaged and the vacuum lost, redy the electrodes. Redrying returns the electrodes to it´s original state.
Best regards,
Claes Gillenius
Development Engineer, MMA. (Spec. stainless and non Fe-alloys)
Direct tel: +46 (0)31 509315
Mobile +46 (0)707532012
Company ESAB AB
Address Box 8004, 402 77 Gothenburg, Sweden
Lindholmsallén 9
Company reg number 556005-7738
| "Bathula Raghuram
(Mumbai - PIPING)" <R.Ba...@ticb.com>
Sent by: material...@googlegroups.com 2009-09-17 12:17
|
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Shashank Vagal
| Hi, All Ok and accordingly noted. How about the shelf life, if the packing is not damaged, do we follow manufacturer's instructions or is there any expiry date for it? What is the general approach here, in absence of anything else? Regards, Shashank Vagal --- On Thu, 17/9/09, claes.g...@esab.se <claes.g...@esab.se> wrote: |
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Rafique Naik
Claes Gillenius,
Please let me know how many times re drying is permissible. If electrodes are not used and kept inside the oven, but oven is turn off for overnight.
Regards,
Rafique
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:3240] Re: 3238] Shelf life of Low hydrogen electrodes
From: claes.g...@esab.se
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:41:08 +0200
This communication and any files transmitted with it contain information which is confidential and which may also be privileged. It is for the exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended recipient(s), please note that any disclosure, copying, printing or use whatsoever of this communication or the information contained in it is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us by e-mail or by telephone as above and then delete the e-mail together with any copies of it. ESAB does not accept liability for the integrity of this message or for any changes, which may occur in transmission due to network, machine or software failure or manufacture or operator error. Although this communication and any files transmitted with it are believed to be free of any virus or any other defect which might affect any computer or IT system into which they are received and opened, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that they are virus free and no responsibility will be accepted by ESAB for any loss or damage arising in any way from receipt or use thereof. </div
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GOPU NAIR
Dear Rafique
Redrying is permitted only once. But after completing the drying as recommended by the electrode manufacturer or as per your own procedure, you can reduce the temperature to 100 deg. C and maintain it for any number of days.
|
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rajagopal kannan
Electrodes considered as old, which doesn’t loose flux when dropped vertically from 1 meter height from ground is suitable for welding.
kayvan alyari
Shashank Vagal
| Raj, Thanks, that is interesting. Such practical approaches borne out of experience are very useful guidelines. SV --- On Tue, 22/9/09, rajagopal kannan <rajagopa...@gmail.com> wrote: |
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AGUSTIN JIMENEZ
Greetings, first of all. Regarding your question, we have:
o. Electrodes coated low hydrogen (E-XXX8), the recommended storage for one year at room temperature, but its packaging is in perfect conditions and for use must be heated to condition 5. (350 ° C for 120 min. Maximo .... Lincoln Electric).
o. If the electrodes have been stored in an environment, closed room with light that increases the temperature at about 10 ° C (+ - 33 + 10) the electrodes can be stored over a year.
o. In the specific case, storage of 2 years or more, do not know the storage conditions before use should be reviewed, if they have some moisture, only, appearance of darker coating can be resected (Con. 5) and used, Staying in furnaces with 20 to 30 ° C above the ambient temperatures. Always with the view of the welder and review of test cords.
o. If the coating has physical deterioration, cracking, loosening, pollution, the electrode should be discarded.
Friends, I hope I have answered your question,
De: Shashank Vagal <nach...@yahoo.com>
Para: material...@googlegroups.com
Enviado: martes, 22 de septiembre, 2009 0:57:57
Asunto: [MW:3271] Re: [MW:/] Re: 3238] Shelf life of Low hydrogen electrodes
claes.g...@esab.se
Dear all,
Our recommendation regarding storage and handling of low hydrogen covered electrodes is as follows:
Electrodes that have been kept in air tight package, i.e. for ESAB vacuum packed, which has not lost its vacuum, can be used right away regardless of storage time. Electrodes packed in other types of packages should be redried before use.
Redry at 350°C, 2 hrs. or read and follow instruction on the label. Store the electrodes after redrying at a lower temperature. Our recommendation is 150°C. Note that redrying at lower temperature than recommended will not return the electrodes to their original low hydrogen state.
The electrodes can be kept for a long time at 150°C, without any deterioration, but at 350°C, they will slowly oxidize. Do not keep the electrodes at that temperature longer than necessary. Our tests have shown that after a couple of days at 350°C, basic low hydrogen electrodes start to show signs of deterioration due to oxidation. There will be a loss of manganese and silicon in the weld metal, which will affect mechanical properties.
The electrodes can be redried several times if the holding time at the redrying temperature is respected. 3 times or more should be no problem. Up to 24 hrs.total holding time at 350°C is OK.
Regarding maximum shelf life we recommend 3 years, mainly because there may have been changes in formulation and properties during that time, i.e. the old electrodes may not be the same as what is sold now. For really old electrodes it is difficult to find documentation. I would not recommend any test type bending or dropping, definitely not for low hydrogen electrodes.
Best regards,
Claes Gillenius
Development Engineer, MMA. (Spec. stainless and non Fe-alloys)
Direct tel: +46 (0)31 509315
Mobile +46 (0)707532012
Company ESAB AB
Address Box 8004, 402 77 Gothenburg, Sweden
Lindholmsallén 9
Company reg number 556005-7738
| Shashank Vagal <nach...@yahoo.com>
Sent by: material...@googlegroups.com 2009-09-22 07:30
|
|
Salvador, Camilo
SItuation: I open a pack of electrodes. The pack's lost vacuum. So i
redry the electrodes at specific conditions (e.g 350ºC; 2 hrs) and
before that, keep them on a 150ºC electric hot house / electrode
dryer. Ok. Supose that the energy breaks down, and the ambient gets
moisture. Can i repeat the entire procedure and guarantee electrodes
properties? If the energy restart in a few minutes (e.g 20 min) and if
the temperatures variation's not great (- 30ºC), its necessary to
redry at 350ºC?
How many times can i redry the electrodes?
> 2009-09-22 07:30
> Please respond to
> material...@googlegroups.com
>
> To
> material...@googlegroups.com
> cc
>
> Subject
> [MW:3271] Re: [MW:/] Re: 3238] Shelf life of Low hydrogen electrodes
>
> Raj,
> Thanks, that is interesting. Such practical approaches borne out of
> experience are very useful guidelines.
> SV
>
> From: rajagopal kannan <rajagopal.kan...@gmail.com>
> Subject: [MW:/] Re: 3238] Shelf life of Low hydrogen electrodes
> To: material...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, 22 September, 2009, 9:50 AM
>
> Dear Shasank,
> As stated in this tread earlier, ASME Sec. IX code does not state anything
> about this. we have to go by tthe manufacturer's instruction only.
> But, I have come across a practice to test its usability. But I can't
> provide you any type of written reference. It was found in one of the
> vendor's system procedures.
> Electrodes considered as old, which doesn’t loose flux when dropped
> vertically from 1 meter height from ground is suitable for welding.
> You can try this.
> Thanks and Best Regards,
> K.Rajagopal
>
>
> Hi,
> All Ok and accordingly noted. How about the shelf life, if the packing is
> not damaged, do we follow manufacturer's instructions or is there any
> expiry date for it? What is the general approach here, in absence of
> anything else?
> Regards,
> Shashank Vagal
>
> wrote:
> From: claes.gillen...@esab.se <claes.gillen...@esab.se>
> Subject: [MW:3240] Re: 3238] Shelf life of Low hydrogen electrodes
>
> To: material...@googlegroups.com
> Date: Thursday, 17 September, 2009, 4:11 PM
>
> If the electrodes are packed in air tight packages they can be used right
> away. If not, redry the electrodes in the way the manufacturer recommends,
> normally at a temperature around 300 - 350 °C.
> Air tight packages are for example vacuum packages. If such a package is
> damaged and the vacuum lost, redy the electrodes. Redrying returns the
> electrodes to it´s original state.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Claes Gillenius
> Development Engineer, MMA. (Spec. stainless and non Fe-alloys)
> Direct tel: +46 (0)31 509315
> Mobile +46 (0)707532012
> Company ESAB AB
> Address Box 8004, 402 77 Gothenburg, Sweden
> Lindholmsallén 9
> Company reg number 556005-7738
>
> 2009-09-17 12:17
>
> Please respond to
> material...@googlegroups.com
>
> To
> <material...@googlegroups.com>
> cc
>
> Subject
> [MW:3239] RE: 3238] Shelf life of Low hydrogen electrodes
>
> Consult the consumable manufacturer, may be shelf life revalidated with
> additional testing. Code does not specify the shelf life, but the
> manufacturer does.
>
> material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Ravindra T
> Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:28 PM
> To: material...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [MW:3238] Shelf life of Low hydrogen electrodes
>
> Dear All
>
> Our contractor has brought low hydrogen electrodes (E 7018 & 8018) which
> are manufactured in 2007 for welding station piping in one of our
> intermediate pump station of our cross country pipeline project. I would
> like to know whether these electrodes can be used now?. Is there any
> reference in ASME code regarding the expiry/ shelf life of Electrodes?
>
> Please advise me in this regard.
>
> Thanking you all in advance
>
> Ravindra
> Senior Project Engineer
>
> which is confidential and which may also be privileged. It is for the
> exclusive use of the intended recipient(s). If you are not the intended
> recipient(s), please note that any disclosure, copying, printing or use
> whatsoever of this communication or the information contained in it is
> strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error,
> please notify us by e-mail or by telephone as above and then delete the
> e-mail together with any copies of it. ESAB does not accept liability for
> the integrity of this message or for any changes, which may occur in
> transmission due to network, machine or software failure or manufacture or
> operator error. Although this communication and any files transmitted with
> it are believed to be free of any virus or any other defect which might
> affect any computer or IT system into which they are received and opened,
> it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that they are virus
> free and no responsibility will be accepted by ESAB for any loss or damage
> arising in any way from receipt or use thereof.
>
> Yahoo! India Homepage!
>
>
claes.g...@esab.se
Camilo,
Electrodes kept inside a closed electrode drier will not pick up any moisture before reaching ambient temperature, so in your example below you do not need to redry. It is possible to repeat the operation and return the electrodes to low hydrogen state several times, see my answer below:
> redrying temperature is respected. 3 times or more should be no problem.
> Up to 24 hrs.total holding time at 350°C is OK.
Claes Gillenius
Development Engineer, MMA. (Spec. stainless and non Fe-alloys)
Direct tel: +46 (0)31 509315
Mobile +46 (0)707532012
Company ESAB AB
Address Box 8004, 402 77 Gothenburg, Sweden
Lindholmsallén 9
Company reg number 556005-7738
| "Salvador, Camilo"
<caf...@gmail.com>
Sent by: material...@googlegroups.com 2009-09-23 16:28
|
|
Rajneesh Gaur
Dear all,
First of all I am new to the group and find the information very interesting and useful.
Can someone answer this question, with references to code etc;
(1) what is criteria of hard punch ? when its required ? above what thickness it is allowed?
Regards
Rajneesh Gaur
Vinayak Kale
Dear , Punching is only for the traceability & identification , few codes accept hard punching in terms of criticality & application criteria. impression marks must not in depth means should not affect thickness and should not create any undue stress
ASME VIII Div 1 , Subsection A - Part UG - clause UG - 10 -General requirements - enlighten more
Thanks & Best Regards,
Vinayak Kale
QA & I , OGSP
Larsen And Toubro Ltd
Powai , Mumbai
vinaya...@lntenc.com
Ph No.+91- 67053805/3685
Fax No. +91-67051988
| "Rajneesh Gaur"
<rajnee...@gmail.com>
Sent by: material...@googlegroups.com 09/24/2009 11:49 AM
|
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Rajneesh Gaur
Dear Vinayak,
Thanks for your response.
Well this is what I found,
ASME B 31.1
133 STAMPING
Stamping, if used, shall be performed by a method
that will not result in sharp discontinuities. In no case
shall stamping infringe on the minimum wall thickness
or result in dimpling or denting of the material being
stamped.
CAUTIONARY NOTE: Detrimental effects can result from
stamping of material which will be in operation under long term
creep or creep fatigue conditions.
Along with this we all know that the stamp should be low stress type with round edges of letters (sharp edges lead to stress concentration points on metal surface). It is generally not recommended for SS as it may lead to surface contamination. Etc. The usage is dependent on criticality of fabrication (usage temp, cyclic conditions, loading, pr etc) . The questions I asked need specific documental references (if available) for solving the purpose.
I hope you/ someone can further enlighten on this topic.
Thanks in advance.
Regards
Rajneesh Gaur
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ENG-AMR-AR
| HI AL most of clients refuse using the hard stamp specially for stainless steel materials, sometimes paint stencile is used. go to ASME II SA 20 ( PARAGRAPH: MARKING ) TO SEE SOME LIMITATION FOR THE HARD STAMPING BEST REGARDS... QA/QC Eng./ Amr Soliman --- On Thu, 9/24/09, Vinayak Kale <Vinaya...@lntenc.com> wrote: |
|
vipin george
As per ASME SEC VIII DIV-1,
For thickness above 6 mm "Hard stamp"to be used
For Thickness below 6 mm" Low stress stamp"to be used
It's a good engineering practise to establish traceability.
Thanks & Regards,
vipin