SAW Wire Test certificate review
krishna
Here i received one SAW Wire test certificate for ESAB OK AUTOROD 12.22L ,as per ASME SEC II Part c SFA 5.17 EM12K.
In the Test certificate they gave only Chemical Analysis of the wire .
Shall I accept the Test certificate or I have to ask for Mechanical Properties also.
Is it acceptable the Test certficate as it is.
Kindly guide,
thanks,
KK
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kulvir saini
hi Krish, yes it is acceptable ,it is right as per code,as mech prop always comes with wire and flux combination. regards, kss --- On Mon, 26/7/10, krishna <wi...@rediffmail.com> wrote: |
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John Henning
KK
The short answer is yes.
See Sc II SFA-5.17 3.1 and 3.1 (C):
“The welding electrodes and fluxes covered by the specification A 5.17 specification . . . are classified according to the following . . . (c) The chemical composition of the electrode (for solid electrodes) as specified in Table 1, or the weld metal produced with a particular flux (for composite electrodes) as specified in Table 2.”
EM12K is a solid wire, so only the chemistry of the wire is required for classification.
The filler metal is specified only by the chemistry of the wire for solid wires. Practically, since the flux plays such an important part in determining the chemistry and the mechanical properties of the weld , anything beyond the chemistry of the wire would have little meaning or importance. Basically, the ASME classification system says if you start with a filler metal of X chemistry and weld it with Y flux under the conditions in SFA5.17 you will get a weld with the properties as classified: example F7P4-EM12K – for any wire with an EM12 K composition with the classified flux, the deposit will have a minimum of 70,000psi tensile strength and impacts of 20ft-lb or more at -40F when welded and PWHT’ed per the requirements of SFA-5.17.
Note, this does not guarantee these properties under all welding conditions. Consequently you have to perform a procedure qualification to verify that you will obtain properties you require for a given set of welding conditions. Those properties you require may or may not match the classification properties.
John
From:
material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of krishna
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2010 1:07 PM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:6133] SAW Wire Test certificate review
Frnds,
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--
MNS
the properties are purely based on the flux combination. if the client
is very particular about the mech properites, an all weld test piece
can be tested at lab for mech properties as per spec.
Thanks
Chaitanya Purohit
As everybody said correctly, consumable certificate may not have the details other than Chemical analysis. But that does not mean that it is acceptable.
It all depend what you specified (either your client requirement - informed to supplier or requirement specified in Purchase order while ordering) in your PO.
ASME Sec II C SFA 5.01 specify in clause 6.2 Schedule F : The level of testing shall be the manufacturer's standard. The statement, "The product supplied shall meet the requirements of the applicable AWS fillermetal specification, when tested in accordance with that specification" and a summary of the typical properties..
it means if you have not asked anything the standard certificate with earlier tested values can be provided (it could not be actual chemical analysis even). So please go through the Sec II C SFA5.01 thoroughly and see that you are meeting all your client requirement. You must specify the Lot classification and batch certificate shall be verified accordingly.
To get the correct properties of the production weld (in case where production test coupons are required with simulation or actual heat treated condition) it becomes very important to have batch certificate of Flux with all the testing specified in AWS classification (such as SFA 5.17 for Carbon steel wires / flux).
Regards.
CK
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C. K. Purohit
Eng-Tech Weld1
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Eng/ Mostafa Kamel Hussein
From: krishna <wi...@rediffmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, July 26, 2010 9:07:07 PM
Subject: [MW:6133] SAW Wire Test certificate review
Potter, Richard
You must have the mechanical test report in order to verify the type of flux used. Alloying or non-alloying.
J
classified only by chemistry as indicated in my earlier post. Please
read SFA-5.17 paragraph 3.1(c).
This provision recognises the fact that it is the flux that is of
primary importance in determining the mechanical properties for a
given wire chemistry and is stated in the flux-wire classification, as
determined by the flux manufacturer. Unless restricted by customer
specification, any manufacturers wire properly classified wire by
chemistry may be used with a flux classified with that wire
chemistry. Your PQR will verify that it meets your design
requirements, which, with regard to impact testing may be at higher or
lower temperature than that certified. Thus, if you qualify for
example ESAB OK Autorod 12.22 (EM12K) with say ESAB Flux OK 10.71 the
classification is F7A5-EM12K. Per ASME IX, you may use any other wire
certified EM12K (chemistry only) - such as Lincoln L61 (EM12K).
That is what ASME requires - your customer may have much more
stringent requriements. For example, he/she may require that only the
same brand and type of wire and/or flux be used in production as was
used for qualification. Or, they may require each lot and/or heat
number be tested for flux and/or wire.
Again the bare wire is supplied with chemistry only!
The flux, if classified, will be supplied with mechanical properties
for given wire chemsitry(ies).
John
On Jul 28, 11:37 am, "Potter, Richard" <RPot...@itses.com> wrote:
> You must have the mechanical test report in order to verify the type of
> flux used. Alloying or non-alloying.
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: material...@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eng/ Mostafa
> Kamel Hussein
> Sent: Wednesday, July 28, 2010 1:57 AM
> To: material...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MW:6166] SAW Wire Test certificate review
>
> It's must to review the chemical analysis and mechanical properties
> according to ASME II part C, although ESAB is reputed mark, but it's
> mandatory that the electrode certificate contains the chemical and
> mechanical
>
> SaSa
>
> ________________________________
>
> To: material...@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Mon, July 26, 2010 9:07:07 PM
> Subject: [MW:6133] SAW Wire Test certificate review
>
> Frnds,
> Here i received one SAW Wire test certificate for ESAB OK AUTOROD 12.22L
> ,as per ASME SEC II Part c SFA 5.17 EM12K.
>
> In the Test certificate they gave only Chemical Analysis of the wire .
>
> Shall I accept the Test certificate or I have to ask for Mechanical
> Properties also.
>
> Is it acceptable the Test certficate as it is.
>
> Kindly guide,
>
> thanks,
> KK
>
> signatureline.htm@Middle?>
> --
> To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
> and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own
> decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.
>
> --
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