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Dear All,
We are getting Heads for pressure vessels from Supplier in Saudi, The head requirements are as follows:
Head: 28mm thk; SA516 Gr 60, NACE MR 0175 & HIC tested NACE TM 0284
Construction Code ASME SEC VIII Div 1, E2007 Ad2009.
Type of Head Ellipsoidal with chordal seam (U stamped)
Service For Pressure vessel in Sour Service
HT: Normalization at 910deg C for after forming & SR at 610 deg C along with vessel.
Chemistry restriction by Client: C= 0.06% Si=0.24%, S= 0.007 & P=0.015, Hardness 200BHN
Simulation Testing for HT (NR+SR) on test plate required.
Now the supplier has submitted me WPS / PQR for welding chordal seam of head for my review, the details of PQR as follows:
Base metal SA516 Gr70; 90mmthk
SMAW with E9018-G; SFA 5.5; A=10; F no. 4
SAW with F9P6 EG F3; SFA 5.23; A=10; F no. 6
HT= NR+SR
The weld metal composition achieved on PQR for SAW process are C=0.06%, Mn=1.37%, Si=0.24%, S% <0.005, P=0.014%, Mo=0.48%, Ni=0.82%, Cu=0.13%.
Tensile& bend test meeting requirements of Base metal.
My Question is whether the proposed filler metal is acceptable to this base metal (SA516 Gr 60) as per ASME SEC IX as weld metal chemical properties are not meeting the base metal requirements.
Thanks for co operation in this regard
Aly
Kuwait
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Hi,
I found the WPS&PQR from your Contractor have used SA516 Gr.&0(P.No.1,Gr.2) but your actual material in production is SA516 Gr.60(P.No.1,Gr.2). Change in Material Group No.is a Supplementary Essential Variable for SMAW and SAW Processes as per QW253 and QW254.
Please find below the extarction from ASME Section -IX-QW403.5 for your reference.
QW-403.5 Welding procedure specifications shall bequalified using one of the following: (a) the same base metal (including type or grade) to beused in production welding (b) for ferrous materials, a base metal listed in the sameP-Number Group Number in table QW/QB-422 as the base metal to be used in production welding (c) for nonferrous materials, a base metal listed withthe same P-Number UNS Number in table QW/QB-422 as the base metal to be used in production welding For ferrous materials in table QW/QB-422, a procedure qualification shall be made for each P-Number Group Number combination of base metals, even though procedure qualification tests have been made for each of the two base metals welded to itself. If, however, two or more qualification records have the same essential and supplementary essential variables, except that the base metals are assigned to different Group Numbers within the same P-Number, then the combination of base metals is also qualified. In addition, when base metals of two different P-Number Group Number combinations are qualified using a single test coupon, that coupon qualifies the welding of those two P-Number Group Numbers to themselves as well as to each other using the variables qualified. This variable does not apply when impact testing of
the heat-affected zone is not required by other Sections. So,If impact testing is required in your case,your contractor shall do supporting PQR with the actual production material (SA516 Gr.60) otherwise the exising WPS and PQR of your contarctor is acceptable. Thanks & Regards,
(karthik)
Karthikeyan.S
QA/QC Manager
Getabec Energy Co.,Ltd.
379,Moo6,Soi8,Nikhomphatana,
Rayong-21180,
Thailand.
Phone: 0066 38 897035-8 (Off)
Fax: 0066 38 897034
Hand Phone: 0066 892512282 --- On Tue, 8/24/10, Aly <mhask...@gmail.com> wrote: |
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Please not SA516GR 60 is P1Gr 1
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WHAT IS YOUR THICKNESS?, E9018 MAY NEED PWHT BECAUSE NORMALLY IS NOT USED FOR P1 MATERIALS
Dr. G. Dilintas - Authorized Inspector Supervisor
I&F Regional Technical Manager
Bureau Veritas Piraeus - Greece
Tel: +30 210 40 63 113/4
Fax: +30 210 40 63 118
Cell: +30 69 44 64 62 04
aly mhaskar <mhask...@yahoo.com>
Sent by: material...@googlegroups.com 24/08/2010 08:25
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Hi.
According to ASME Section-IX SFA5.5,Table-2 E-9018G,Chemical Composition shall be as follows.(Also pls.find the attached file of pages)
Mn-1.00Min
Si-0.8Min
Ni-0.5Min
Cr-0.3Min
Mo-0.2Min
Also,See the Note-h given below the table-2 on SFA5.5.
Note "h". In order to meet the alloy requirements of the "G" group, the undiluted weld metal shall have the minimum of at least one of the elements listed in this table. Additional chemical requirements may be agreed to between supplier and purchaser.So according to the above,Your supplier PQR is acceptable,Because Mn and Ni are exceeded the minimum requirements of E-9018G specifications.
The below extraction of ASME Section -IX essential variable for filler metal-QW404.5 may be useful for your reference.
QW-404.5 The weld metal chemical composition may be determined by any of the following: (a) For all welding processes - from the chemicalanalysis of the weld deposit taken from the procedure qualification test coupon. (b) ForSMAW, GTAW, and PAW-from thechemicalanalysis of the weld deposit prepared according to the filler metal specification, or from the chemical composition as reported either in the filler metal specification or the manufacturer's or supplier's certificate of compliance. (c) For GMAWandEGW- from the chemical analysisof the weld deposit prepared according to the filler metal specification or the manufacturer's or supplier's certificate of compliance when the shielding gas used was the same as that used to weld the procedure qualification test coupon. (d) For SAW - from the chemical analysis of theweld deposit prepared according to the filler metal specification or the manufacturer's or supplier's certificate of compliance when the flux used was the same as that used to weld the procedure qualification test coupon. In lieu of an A-Number designation, the nominal chemical composition of the weld deposit shall be indicated on the WPS and on the PQR. Designation of nominal chemical composition may also be by reference to the AWS classification (where such exists), the manufacturer's trade designation, or other established procurement documents.
Thanks & Regards,
(karthik) |
Karthikeyan.S
QA/QC Manager
Getabec Energy Co.,Ltd.
379,Moo6,Soi8,Nikhomphatana,
Rayong-21180,
Thailand.
Phone: 0066 38 897035-8 (Off)
Fax: 0066 38 897034
Hand Phone: 0066 892512282 |
--- On Tue, 8/24/10, aly mhaskar <mhask...@yahoo.com> wrote: |
So if you normalize after welding with E9018, no problem at all
Dr. G. Dilintas - Authorized Inspector Supervisor
I&F Regional Technical Manager
Bureau Veritas Piraeus - Greece
Tel: +30 210 40 63 113/4
Fax: +30 210 40 63 118
Cell: +30 69 44 64 62 04
aly mhaskar <mhask...@yahoo.com>
Sent by: material...@googlegroups.com |
24/08/2010 11:08
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Dear Mr. Karthik / Raghuram bathula
My Question is whether thefiller metal
>
Dear All,We are getting Heads for pressure vesselsfrom Supplier in Saudi, The head requirements are as follows:
Head: 28mm thk; SA516 Gr 60, NACE MR 0175 & HIC tested NACE TM 0284Construction Code ASME SEC VIII Div 1, E2007 Ad2009.
Type of Head Ellipsoidal with chordal seam(U stamped)
Service For Pressure vessel in Sour Service
HT: Normalization at 910deg C for after forming& SR at 610 deg C along with vessel.
Chemistry restriction by Client: C= 0.06% Si=0.24%, S= 0.007 & P=0.015, Hardness 200BHNSimulation Testing for HT (NR+SR) on test plate required.Now the supplier has submitted me WPS / PQR for welding chordal seam of head for my review, the details of PQR as follows:Base metal SA516 Gr70; 90mmthkSMAW with E9018-G; SFA 5.5; A=10; F no. 4SAW with F9P6 EG F3; SFA 5.23; A=10; F no. 6HT= NR+SRThe weld metal composition achieved on PQR for SAW process are C=0.06%, Mn=1.37%, Si=0.24%, S% <0.005, P=0.014%, Mo=0.48%, Ni=0.82%, Cu=0.13%.Tensile& bend test meeting requirements of Base metal.My Question is whether the proposed filler metal is acceptable to this base metal (SA516 Gr 60) as per ASME SEC IX as weld metal chemical properties are not meeting the base metal requirements.Thanks for co operation in this regardAlyKuwait
Dear Aly,
E9018-G very well acceptable for welding with NR+SR for material grade SA516 Gr. 60. Based on your previous mails, it is not necessarily that all times the chemistry of filler metal should match with base materials. It may change based on other conditions such as NR.
It is understand that if CS weld undergoes heat treatment with above critical temperature (NR), there is a fall in tensile strength would take plate due to coarse grain formation of dendrite structure of the weld. This is depends on NR temperature and duration. But in any case there will be a reduction in tensile strength approximately 10-15 Ksi (100 N/mm2) in welds when compared with as welded condition. However, this will not be happened in base materials, since the metallurgical structure is different than the weld due to chemical composition with addition of some amount of alloying elements. See the attached article (Table 4 – CMn welds) would provide more details on this subject. Also refer to “Metallurgy of basic weld metal” by Evans for more details.
Hence to compensate the fall in strength after NR, we should select higher strength filler metal to achieve the strength requirements. Ideally it is preferred to use with “M” grade (Military) filler metals for welds with NR+SR. However, the filler metal used by the vessel vendor is acceptable.
Regards,
Dear Mr. Karthik / Raghuram bathula
My Question is whether thefiller metal
>
Dear All,We are getting Heads for pressure vesselsfrom Supplier in Saudi, The head requirements are as follows:
Head: 28mm thk; SA516 Gr 60, NACE MR 0175 & HIC tested NACE TM 0284Construction Code ASME SEC VIII Div 1, E2007 Ad2009.
Type of Head Ellipsoidal with chordal seam(U stamped)
Service For Pressure vessel in Sour Service
HT: Normalization at 910deg C for after forming& SR at 610 deg C along with vessel.
Chemistry restriction by Client: C= 0.06% Si=0.24%, S= 0.007 & P=0.015, Hardness 200BHNSimulation Testing for HT (NR+SR) on test plate required.Now the supplier has submitted me WPS / PQR for welding chordal seam of head for my review, the details of PQR as follows:Base metal SA516 Gr70; 90mmthkSMAW with E9018-G; SFA 5.5; A=10; F no. 4SAW with F9P6 EG F3; SFA 5.23; A=10; F no. 6HT= NR+SRThe weld metal composition achieved on PQR for SAW process are C=0.06%, Mn=1.37%, Si=0.24%, S% <0.005, P=0.014%, Mo=0.48%, Ni=0.82%, Cu=0.13%.Tensile& bend test meeting requirements of Base metal.My Question is whether the proposed filler metal is acceptable to this base metal (SA516 Gr 60) as per ASME SEC IX as weld metal chemical properties are not meeting the base metal requirements.Thanks for co operation in this regardAlyKuwait
Dear Aly,
Use of weld metal of dissimilar chemistry and superior strength is recommended to get the desired mechanical properties after NR +SR even on a carbon steel base metal e.g. SA 516 Gr 60 or 70. The rationale is as follows:-
Typical chemical analysis SA 516/60 and SA 516/70 base metal is - C-0.21-.024, Mn-0.80-1.20.For matching electrodes, E7018, C-0.15, Mn-1.60 max. Typically the plates will be fine grained normalized while the weld is predominantly a cast structure. Heating the welds above the AC3 temperature and accelerated cooling does not cause a great improvement in mechanical properties, unless the welds have sufficient alloying elements to refine the grains. From this weld design aspect it is recommend to select welding consumables with overmatching chemistry and properties for weld joints undergoing NR.
To weld a base metal SA 516/60, of 60 Ksi nominal UTS, using welding consumable of 90 Ksi would be grossly overmatching. Probably welding consumable with nominal UTS of 80 Ksi would be more appropriate. As the service is sour service welding consumables with high strength could harm the welds. The maximum hardness requirement for sour service is 22 HRC (248HV/ 234 BHN) after SR. With SMAW(9018G) +SAW (F9P6 EGF3) combination after Normalizing and SR what’re the hardness readings in vendor’s PQR?
Is there any notch toughness requirement on this job? Then SA 516/70 would not support PQR for SA 516/60 base metal. SFA 5.5. does not specify impact testing/ notch toughness for 9018G weld metal. Some manufacturers may report it on the test certificate (see attached), others may not unless specially asked by clients’. If there is impact requirement then probably E-8018-D1 or D2 or D3 consumables would be preferred.
Lastly please check if there are any changes in ASME Sec-IX, in the thickness qualification rules for PWHT above upper critical temperatures such as normalizing. The issue is as follows:-
· Head: 28mm thk
· Supporting PQR for the simulation test coupon: 90mmthk
It’s not stated anywhere, but as per the logic of heat treatment the head thickness and the supporting coupon plate thickness should be as close as possible. Section-IX -2010 have this clause, which may be worth looking into.
QW-403.6 The minimum base metal thickness qualified is the thickness of the test coupon T or 5⁄8 in. (16 mm), whichever is less. However, where T is less than 1⁄4 in. (6 mm), the minimum thickness qualified is 1⁄2T. This variable does not apply when a WPS is qualified with a PWHT above the upper transformation temperature or when an austenitic or P-No. 10H material is solution annealed after welding.
Thanks.
Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.
Welding & Metallurgical Engineer/Specialist
Ontario Power Generation Inc.
Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,
From: material...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Prabhu kumar
Loganathan
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 7:31 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Re: [MW:6683] What is the Filler metal to weld Base metal
(SA516 Gr 60) to achieve weld metal tensile properties after Normalization+
Stress Relieving
Dear Aly,
E9018-G very well acceptable for welding with NR+SR for material grade SA516 Gr. 60. Based on your previous mails, it is not necessarily that all times the chemistry of filler metal should match with base materials. It may change based on other conditions such as NR.
It is understand that if CS weld undergoes heat treatment with above critical temperature (NR), there is a fall in tensile strength would take plate due to coarse grain formation of dendrite structure of the weld. This is depends on NR temperature and duration. But in any case there will be a reduction in tensile strength approximately 10-15 Ksi (100 N/mm2) in welds when compared with as welded condition. However, this will not be happened in base materials, since the metallurgical structure is different than the weld due to chemical composition with addition of some amount of alloying elements. See the attached article (Table 4 – CMn welds) would provide more details on this subject. Also refer to “Metallurgy of basic weld metal” by Evans for more details.
Hence to compensate the fall in strength after NR, we should select higher strength filler metal to achieve the strength requirements. Ideally it is preferred to use with “M” grade (Military) filler metals for welds with NR+SR. However, the filler metal used by the vessel vendor is acceptable.
Regards,
Prabhu.
On Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:22:02 +0530 wrote
>
Dear Mr.Raghuram Bathula
Thank you for quick response.
I appreciate if you could give ASME code reference to go ahead with higher metallurgy for my satisfaction to convince my client.
Thank you once again
Aly
Kuwait
>
>
From: Raghuram Bathula
>To: material...@googlegroups.com
>Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 8:42:39 AM
>Subject: Re: [MW:6672] What is the Filler metal to weld Base metal
(SA516 Gr 60) to achieve weld metal tensile properties after Normalization+
Stress Relieving
>
>yes, it is acceptable, you can select higher metallurgy to get desired mech
properties, as long as no restriction w.r.t corrosiveness of the fluid.
>
>
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:55 AM, aly mhaskar <mhask...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
Dear Mr. Karthik / Raghuram bathula
My Question is whether thefiller metal
(SMAW with E9018-G; SFA 5.5; A=10; F no. 4 & SAW with F9P6 EG F3; SFA 5.23; A=10; F no. 6)
is acceptable to the base metal (SA516 Gr 60) as weld metal chemical properties(C=0.06%, Mn=1.37%, Si=0.24%, S% <0.005, P=0.014%, Mo=0.48%, Ni=0.82%, Cu=0.13%.) are not meeting theSA516 Gr60requirements.
Aly
Kuwait
>
>
From: Karthik <karth...@yahoo.com>
>To: material...@googlegroups.com
>Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 7:32:00 AM
>Subject: Re: [MW:6667] What is the Filler metal to weld Base metal
(SA516 Gr 60) to achieve weld metal tensile properties after Normalization+
Stress Relieving
>
>
|
Hi, I found the WPS&PQR from your Contractor have used SA516 Gr.&0(P.No.1,Gr.2) but your actual material in production is SA516 Gr.60(P.No.1,Gr.2). Change in Material Group No.is a Supplementary Essential Variable for SMAW and SAW Processes as per QW253 and QW254. |
Please find below the extraction from ASME Section -IX-QW403.5 for your reference. |
>
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>To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
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>For more options, visit this group's bolg at
http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
>The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and
meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t.
applicable code/standard/contract documents.
>
>
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>To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
>For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
>The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant
for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t.
applicable code/standard/contract documents.
>
--
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
materials-weld...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and
meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t.
applicable code/standard/contract documents.
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