Challenges

[Ed]

This is the discussion thread for programs to post challenges as
programs take those important steps towards improvement. It is helpful
for programs to share their challenges and methods they have tried to
over come those challenges so that others might offer input, advice,
or suggestions of what next steps to try. No matter how negative
obstacles may seem, there is always a next step to help resolve the
matter. It will be particularly helpful if a program has overcome an
obstacle, for that program to share strategies used and any other
helpful information should other programs encounter those same
hurdles.

[RL]

Thanks, Ed- and Thanks, Margie for getting Google Groups to recognize
me! WARNING: long post (sorry) and general.

I do think that my experience trying to be allowed to respond to your
post is an example of a challenge: class time is so precious, and the
needs of my learners so pressing, that the time spent making the
technology work seamlessly (or at all) is discouraging- although
thrilling when it works. Because of this, I am very select in the
technologies I or sts propose using.

In any one class, I may have learners who are newbies and some who are
techies; that they help one another is a big bonus; that extra time
needs to be diverted towards maneuvering through the technology is a
challenge.

My writing classes are an example: revising on the computer makes for
better writing, because it's easy to do in a holistic way. I have
several learners who have never used a computer- and they are way
behind ( in terms of output) those who have had some experience. The
BIG plus to that is that by the time the semester is over, they have
learned not only how to write an essay, but how to use a word
processor with some comfort,and they are comfortable problem-solving
and finding work-arounds -- an important life skill even without
technology.

And then there is the MS Word issue: Many sts have a computer that
comes with Works, if they have a computer, and so others cannot read
their email attachments (yes- many of my sts prefer to send writing to
peers for peer reviews as an email attachment instead of using Google
Docs). I have helped all my sts to either download Open Office
(SWriter) ort to use Google Docs.

I sent this to Margie for a chuckle- certainly points to the
challenges of new technologies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Cd7Bsp3dDo&feature=related

[Ed]

I wonder, Ramsey about the whole transitioning from one program or
tool to another and the difficulties I hear reported often from
educators. This difficulty illustrates a learning pattern that I think
has a generational effect and I worry about our older generations
becoming digital second class citizens. Here are some thoughts on the
difficulty of going from one tool to another (works to word for
example).

In the past, teachers were expected to show "the" way or maybe two
ways to do something (and they always saved the shorter, easier ways
till last). The rational was to show a standard way so that people are
not easily confused by too many different directions or means to do
something. We have entire generations built on the "keep it to one
standard" format of learning. I could rattle off over a dozen free
word processing tools available to people today, never mind all the
pay programs that are out there. Clearly there are many options of
what tools people might use to word process. A teacher can't possibly
train all users in the specifics of how to use every once of those
various sources. We have had to shift our instructional practice over
to a concentration of where different information can be found to help
the user figure things out rather than memorizing which buttons or
procedures any one tool uses. Granted, there are operations like bold
(control-b or command-b) that are universal operations we can get
people to memorize. More powerful is to teach the ability of the
learner to be able to look over the menus and tool buttons on each
program to fine what might work for doing any operation like the
example here of bold.

The frustration you voice with technology not working correctly is
very valid and widely shared. When our learners get stuck on
technology at home they experience that same frustration. Would those
learners not benefit from seeing and experiencing how to productively
resolve issues in the classroom. Sure, the content you intended for
the day with that specific tool may have had to be altered or maybe
even post-poned. I understand there are time issues all the time in
education and as much as I may fight against the "race to the test or
deadline" education anxieties, I do realize there has to be something
"lost" for every hiccup we encounter. Is it possible that some of that
loss can be made up by the learners through creative work outside the
classroom a few classes later?

In your experience, there was difficulty getting into the group here.
You contacted the admins of the group and asked for help. When efforts
did not work you provided feedback to help isolate what was going
wrong and you helped the admins figure out how to fix what was
happening or to offer suggestions. More than that you helped the
admins find possible snags in their first run of a tool. Sharing this
whole experience with your learners is vital to helping learners know
what options they may have when digital trouble pops up. Sharing your
frustration and how you positively resolved it will add one more
shared experience to the learners you share this story with.
Responding to digital frustration is a learned behavior. Those that
lack these skills or experience will simply reject the tool or
activity and will miss out on the educational experiences.

You point out as well the difficulty of working with computer
technology that is integrated into our programs with users that don't
have the basic technology experience. I offer two solutions to all
programs. One solution is to require that all learners in your
programs take an intro to technology basics class or they can test out
of that class to demonstrate their skills. This option ensures that
all learners in your program offerings are at least at a basic level
and have that confidence that they can at least get in and get
started. Another option is for programs to assemble video +/or
illustrated guides that will walk new users through activities. Search
You Tube for any newbie function and I bet there is something out
there. If there is not, you are all part of a great digital community
now (MARTI) and you can throw out a call for help and the odds are
good someone here can find resources or make them. With resources at
your disposal, you can now offer learners new to technology external
resources that the individuals can access independently and then come
back to you with any clarification questions they may have.

Thanks for sharing your experiences Ramsey! I am sure others can
relate easily to the issues you bring up.

[Margie]

Ramsey,
We have problems at SCAE with students simply saving work created in
either MSWorks, OpenOffice and/or Office 2007 and not realizing that
they must "save as" a .doc, so the world can open and edit. We have a
couple of computers in our lab that have the ability to open all of
these file types, so that's one way that we've found to work around
it. However, we seem to constantly find the need to educate our staff
and students on how to save work at home in such a way that they can
work on it at school.

[Martha]

I also think that we need to take advantage of the online translators,
such as Zamzar (http://www.zamzar.com/), when we help folks with file
format issues.

[Andrea Itkin]

Ask students to save their work in Rich Text Format if they are working in another program besides Word. Then you'll be able to open the document when they attach it to an email.
-Andrea

[RL]

Thanks Ed et al:

Yes- we do have a basic computer tech requirement and I do have
tutoring sessions for folks- BUT often folks come to one of my other
classes (reading/writing/test prep labs/etc) BEFORE that happens.
Impossible to schedule in sequence as we are always getting new
students. The good news is that they can all test out of the computer
requirement by the time they're done with their writing class.

Interestingly, many of my younger generation people whom I would
expect to be natives are less comfortable with computers than many of
the older folks- a surprise to me.

And of course, flexibility is key- but for diploma students, there is
less flexibility than we would like, and a definite time crunch.

Andrea- yes, .rtf is our fall back position always- sadly the trial
Windows 2007 seems to want to always change it to .doc Sts now know
how right click and slect "open with" to tell the computer which
program to use to open at .rtf doc. Someday we'll look back on this
kind of nonsense and laugh...pretty primitive still.

Margie- yes, through sad trial and error, all my folks know about
"save as" now- particularly when they need to save to their flash
drives,
I think the answer may be something like Wave....all these fragmented
bits need to be gathered up and coordinated. Meanwhile..

thanks for the info.

On Nov 9, 2:41 pm, Ed <ohg...@gmail.com> wrote: