Mario's Coke show Neapolitan songs
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BobD
Oct 16, 2009, 6:23:46 PM10/16/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Having purchased and listened to the new CD ( Serenade Song book) I
must admit I was really impressed with the quality of the recordings.
As for the interpretations that Armando is tearing his hair out about,
I just think that the dazzling use of his voice put Mario way above
any other singer before or since. I have heard all the Coke show
recordings, from Damon Lanza productions and I enjoyed them then; yes,
there are a few duds (too harsh a word?) but we must not forget that
these recordings were never meant to be issued in any format. Yes,
great care was taken in the production of these songs, but Mario
probably recorded them at night, after a hard days filming and was on
a high at times and just sang them as he felt at the time. I am all
for the unorthodox and I love the spontaneous way he sails through a
lot of the songs he sang.
Please, Armando, don't lose any more hair. Just enjoy a genius at
work.
Lovely to be back
must admit I was really impressed with the quality of the recordings.
As for the interpretations that Armando is tearing his hair out about,
I just think that the dazzling use of his voice put Mario way above
any other singer before or since. I have heard all the Coke show
recordings, from Damon Lanza productions and I enjoyed them then; yes,
there are a few duds (too harsh a word?) but we must not forget that
these recordings were never meant to be issued in any format. Yes,
great care was taken in the production of these songs, but Mario
probably recorded them at night, after a hard days filming and was on
a high at times and just sang them as he felt at the time. I am all
for the unorthodox and I love the spontaneous way he sails through a
lot of the songs he sang.
Please, Armando, don't lose any more hair. Just enjoy a genius at
work.
Lovely to be back
Armando
Oct 16, 2009, 8:33:23 PM10/16/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
More than tearing my hair out, it’s case of beating one’s head against
a brick wall!
I have neither the time nor the desire to educate the musically deaf!
a brick wall!
I have neither the time nor the desire to educate the musically deaf!
Message has been deleted
Derek McGovern
Oct 16, 2009, 9:58:55 PM10/16/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Bob: As a singer yourself, surely you know that singing a song is not
simply about making "dazzling" sounds; it's about telling a story and
getting under the skin of the song. And as a listener, I want to be
able to believe that a
singer is truly feeling the words, rather than just putting on an
act.
Classic Neapolitan songs, in particular, have to come from the heart.
But in the case of the Coke versions of Dicitencello Vuie and Fenesta
che Lucive (just to give two examples from this CD), Mario's approach
is completely contrived. He's simply opted for one emotion: hysterics.
Fenesta che Lucive shouldn't be tiring to listen to; it should be
deeply moving (as indeed it is on the superb 1958 version). But here
Lanza, abetted by a very poor arrangement and a ridiculously fast
tempo, belts the number out for all he's worth, wrecking this fragile
little vessel. There's no subtlety and no genuine feeling; it's simply
Mario showing off his spectacular voice.
Now that may be enough for many fans, but it's not enough for me. I
expect more from an artist as great as Lanza -- and I generally get
it.
Bob: you urged us to "love the spontaneous way [Mario] sails through"
these Coke Neapolitan numbers. In response, I urge you to "love" the
deeply felt way Mario *inhabits* his later, superior versions of these
same songs.
simply about making "dazzling" sounds; it's about telling a story and
getting under the skin of the song. And as a listener, I want to be
able to believe that a
singer is truly feeling the words, rather than just putting on an
act.
Classic Neapolitan songs, in particular, have to come from the heart.
But in the case of the Coke versions of Dicitencello Vuie and Fenesta
che Lucive (just to give two examples from this CD), Mario's approach
is completely contrived. He's simply opted for one emotion: hysterics.
Fenesta che Lucive shouldn't be tiring to listen to; it should be
deeply moving (as indeed it is on the superb 1958 version). But here
Lanza, abetted by a very poor arrangement and a ridiculously fast
tempo, belts the number out for all he's worth, wrecking this fragile
little vessel. There's no subtlety and no genuine feeling; it's simply
Mario showing off his spectacular voice.
Now that may be enough for many fans, but it's not enough for me. I
expect more from an artist as great as Lanza -- and I generally get
it.
Bob: you urged us to "love the spontaneous way [Mario] sails through"
these Coke Neapolitan numbers. In response, I urge you to "love" the
deeply felt way Mario *inhabits* his later, superior versions of these
same songs.
Derek McGovern
Oct 17, 2009, 4:23:49 AM10/17/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Just following on from my earlier post, I've been playing Lanza's two
versions of Dicitencello Vuie this evening (trying in vain to
understand why so many fans seem to love the Coke rendition!), and I
have to say that the differences between them continue to amaze me. It
really is like listening to two completely different singers.
versions of Dicitencello Vuie this evening (trying in vain to
understand why so many fans seem to love the Coke rendition!), and I
have to say that the differences between them continue to amaze me. It
really is like listening to two completely different singers.
Here's an audio link to the 1952 version, as it was originally
broadcast (with canned applause, etc):
http://www.4shared.com/account/file/141444519/66dc8992/Dicitencello_Vuie__1952_.html
And here's the 1958 version, as it sounded on the original stereo LP:
http://www.4shared.com/account/file/141442786/14ea4f8/Dicitencello_Vuie__1958_.html
For those of you who don't know the words, I suggest listening to both
versions while following the lyrics and the English translation.
Listen to how Mario pronounces the words (or *blurs* them in some
cases on the 1952 version!) and how he shapes the phrases. What's his
approach here? And listen to how he's using his *voice*. He actually
makes some uncharacteristically ugly sounds on the earlier version,
eg, the "me" on the line "Ch' è nnammurata 'e me!" just before the
repeat of the chorus, and goes off-key on the climactic note (on "fa")
at the end.
Also notice how he misses the point of the song on the 1952 version by
*not* singing the third verse, in which the singer throws away the
mask ("Levámmoce 'sta maschera") and reveals *who* he's really singing
about!
How could this have happened? How could the arrangers and/or Lanza
have been so careless that such an important detail was overlooked?
Just another example of the rushed nature of these Coke recordings, I
guess.
Both versions begin with the (original) first verse:
Dicitencello a 'sta cumpagna vosta
Tell her – tell that friend of yours
ch'aggio perduto 'o suonno e 'a fantasia...
That I’ve been losing sleep and my mind’s a blank
ch'a penzo sempe,
Say I’m always thinking about her
ch'è tutt' a vita mia...
That she’s my whole life…
I' nce 'o vvulesse dicere,
I’d like to tell her,
ma nun ce 'o ssaccio dí...
But I don’t know how to say it…
CHORUS:
'A voglio bene...
That I love her
'A voglio bene assaje!
I love her very much!
Dicitencello vuje
You tell her the truth
ca nun mm''a scordo maje.
That I’ll never forget her
E' na passione,
It’s a passion
cchiù forte 'e na catena,
stronger than chains,
ca mme turmenta ll'anema...
It torments my soul…
e nun mme fa campá!...
And I can’t go on.
But then the Coke version concludes with the (usually omitted) second
verse. This is basically just more of the same pining ("Tell her she's
like a rose in May," etc):
Dicitencello ch' è na rosa 'e maggio,
Ch'è assaie cchiù bella 'e 'na jurnata 'e sole
D''a vocca soia, cchiù fresca d''e vviole
I' già vulesse sentere
Ch' è nnammurata 'e me! (then back to the same chorus as above)
(I don't have time to translate, but I'm sure you get the idea.)
But here's the crucial third verse and modified chorus that Mario
sings on the 1958 version:
Na lácrema lucente v'è caduta...
A glistening tear slid down your cheek
dicíteme nu poco: a che penzate?!
Tell me – what goes through your mind?
Cu st'uocchie doce,
Such sweet eyes,
vuje sola mme guardate...
Are yours and yours alone
Levámmoce 'sta maschera,
Let’s get rid of this mask
dicimmo 'a veritá...
And tell the truth…
CHORUS:
Te voglio bene...
I love you…
Te voglio bene assaje...
I really love you…
Si' tu chesta catena
You are these chains
ca nun se spezza maje!
That will never break!
Suonno gentile,
A soft sound,
suspiro mio carnale...
My senses sigh
Te cerco comm'a ll'aria:
I need you like the air I breathe:
Te voglio pe' campá!...
I need you to go on!
Thoughts, anyone?
fish
Oct 17, 2009, 6:42:50 AM10/17/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Hi Derek, Here's my "two cents worth". To begin with I must say that
I enjoy both versions, although I prefer the 1958 version. In the '52
version I feel he still conveys a similar message with his voice, even
though he doesn't enunciate the words clearly (having followed along
with the words you provided - thank you for that). His singing is
more emotional in a "jerky" way, which maybe was deliberate in order
to convey uncertainty (?).
In the '58 version his singing is smoother, slower and more melancholy
sounding, as well as being clearly enunciated. It gives me the
impression that he doesn't think he will succeed in winning her,
whereas in the '52 version he sounds as though there's a glimmer of
hope.
There is no excuse for his "sloppy" enunciation though! However, for
those who don't know the Italian language and didn't see the words it
wouldn't matter. What does matter is the sound and the message that
it conveys.
What I don't understand is why in both versions there is a verse
missing?
On Oct 17, 7:23 pm, Derek McGovern <derek.mcgov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just following on from my earlier post, I've been playing Lanza's two
> versions of Dicitencello Vuie this evening (trying in vain to
> understand why so many fans seem to love the Coke rendition!), and I
> have to say that the differences between them continue to amaze me. It
> really is like listening to two completely different singers.
>
> Here's an audio link to the 1952 version, as it was originally
> broadcast (with canned applause, etc):
>
> http://www.4shared.com/account/file/141444519/66dc8992/Dicitencello_V...
I enjoy both versions, although I prefer the 1958 version. In the '52
version I feel he still conveys a similar message with his voice, even
though he doesn't enunciate the words clearly (having followed along
with the words you provided - thank you for that). His singing is
more emotional in a "jerky" way, which maybe was deliberate in order
to convey uncertainty (?).
In the '58 version his singing is smoother, slower and more melancholy
sounding, as well as being clearly enunciated. It gives me the
impression that he doesn't think he will succeed in winning her,
whereas in the '52 version he sounds as though there's a glimmer of
hope.
There is no excuse for his "sloppy" enunciation though! However, for
those who don't know the Italian language and didn't see the words it
wouldn't matter. What does matter is the sound and the message that
it conveys.
What I don't understand is why in both versions there is a verse
missing?
On Oct 17, 7:23 pm, Derek McGovern <derek.mcgov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just following on from my earlier post, I've been playing Lanza's two
> versions of Dicitencello Vuie this evening (trying in vain to
> understand why so many fans seem to love the Coke rendition!), and I
> have to say that the differences between them continue to amaze me. It
> really is like listening to two completely different singers.
>
> Here's an audio link to the 1952 version, as it was originally
> broadcast (with canned applause, etc):
>
>
> And here's the 1958 version, as it sounded on the original stereo LP:
>
> http://www.4shared.com/account/file/141442786/14ea4f8/Dicitencello_Vu...
> And here's the 1958 version, as it sounded on the original stereo LP:
>
Derek McGovern
Oct 17, 2009, 7:06:10 AM10/17/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Anita: Thank you for your comments. "Jerky" is certainly an
appropriate word for the singing on the 1952 version!
In answer to your question, it's not very common for singers to
perform all three verses (where they exist on these songs); two is
usual. I find that three is overkill! In the case of Dicitencello
Vuie, if the singer is going to sing only two verses, then fairly
obviously they have to be #1 and #3, as Lanza does on his "Mario!"
album version.
I should add that I don't regard Dicitencello Vuie as one of the
highlights of the "Mario!" album, although it is a very good piece of
singing. The highlights for me from that album (vocally and
interpretively) are Voce 'e Notte, Canta Pe' Me, Tu Ca Nun Chiagne,
'Na Sera 'e Maggio, and Passione. Quite a formidable list! I'm also
*very* fond of Santa Lucia Luntana and Fenesta che Lucive.
> > Thoughts, anyone?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
appropriate word for the singing on the 1952 version!
In answer to your question, it's not very common for singers to
perform all three verses (where they exist on these songs); two is
usual. I find that three is overkill! In the case of Dicitencello
Vuie, if the singer is going to sing only two verses, then fairly
obviously they have to be #1 and #3, as Lanza does on his "Mario!"
album version.
I should add that I don't regard Dicitencello Vuie as one of the
highlights of the "Mario!" album, although it is a very good piece of
singing. The highlights for me from that album (vocally and
interpretively) are Voce 'e Notte, Canta Pe' Me, Tu Ca Nun Chiagne,
'Na Sera 'e Maggio, and Passione. Quite a formidable list! I'm also
*very* fond of Santa Lucia Luntana and Fenesta che Lucive.
>
> - Show quoted text -
Jan Hodges
Oct 17, 2009, 6:17:47 PM10/17/09
to mario...@googlegroups.com
|
I have just listened to the two versions of Dicitencello Vuie
The 1958 version I love...smooth opening, lovely rounded tone, just the right amount of melancholy, very good dynamics.Overall a very creditable performance.
The 1952 Coke version...only one main dynamic....LOUD..even verging on shouting at times and his vocal control slips in a couple of places and the tone becomes harsh particularly near the end. I dislike the way he seems to "spit out" the words
It seems to me as if he were "trying too hard" to portray the emotion of this song.
This is just my opinion.
Regards Jan | |||
|
|
Armando
Oct 17, 2009, 6:47:54 PM10/17/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Armando
Vince Di Placido
Oct 18, 2009, 2:14:04 PM10/18/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
1958 wins hands down over 1952 (I'm sure none of you are surprised to
read that :-) there is just a great musicality & understanding of the
song in 1958 & the baritonal sound only adds to & enhances this song.
There is one thing I do like about the 1952 "Dicitencello Vuie" it's
the line "D''a vocca soia, cchiù fresca d''e vviole" I like the way
Mario sings that line (actually I think it's the only think I like in
the whole recording), granted he does over roll the "R" in
"fresca" (it's one of those Marioisms) but he makes the word "fresca"
actually sound fresh :-) obviously this isn't anything to do with
comparing the 2 versions as this verse wasn't sung in 1958 but I like
the 2nd verse & don't think it would be that much overkill to sing all
3 verses, it makes the 3rd verse revelation more dramatic if you build
it up with 2 verses...
read that :-) there is just a great musicality & understanding of the
song in 1958 & the baritonal sound only adds to & enhances this song.
There is one thing I do like about the 1952 "Dicitencello Vuie" it's
the line "D''a vocca soia, cchiù fresca d''e vviole" I like the way
Mario sings that line (actually I think it's the only think I like in
the whole recording), granted he does over roll the "R" in
"fresca" (it's one of those Marioisms) but he makes the word "fresca"
actually sound fresh :-) obviously this isn't anything to do with
comparing the 2 versions as this verse wasn't sung in 1958 but I like
the 2nd verse & don't think it would be that much overkill to sing all
3 verses, it makes the 3rd verse revelation more dramatic if you build
it up with 2 verses...
Derek McGovern
Oct 18, 2009, 3:05:59 PM10/18/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Hi Vince: I also enjoyed "D''a vocca soia, cchiù frrrrrresca d''e
vviole" (nice words too), but, like you, I'm hard pressed to find
anything else positive to say about the 1952 version!
Just out of curiosity, do you regard Dicitencello Vuie as one of the
highlights of the "Mario!" album? I feel that on almost any other
Lanza disc, it would definitely be a standout, but Mario's in such
superb form on this album that it's eclipsed by the other tracks I
mentioned above. For me, it just underlines what an amazing
achievement the "Mario!" disc was.
On Oct 19, 7:14 am, Vince Di Placido <vincent.diplac...@gmail.com>
wrote:
vviole" (nice words too), but, like you, I'm hard pressed to find
anything else positive to say about the 1952 version!
Just out of curiosity, do you regard Dicitencello Vuie as one of the
highlights of the "Mario!" album? I feel that on almost any other
Lanza disc, it would definitely be a standout, but Mario's in such
superb form on this album that it's eclipsed by the other tracks I
mentioned above. For me, it just underlines what an amazing
achievement the "Mario!" disc was.
On Oct 19, 7:14 am, Vince Di Placido <vincent.diplac...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Vince Di Placido
Oct 18, 2009, 4:30:48 PM10/18/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
"Dicitencello Vuie" is a family favourite! I just love the song & I do
love Mario's performance, actually if you were to put me on the spot
(which I don't want you to do because I love the album genuinely as a
whole) I would maybe put it "just" below the "big 5" Voce 'e Notte,
and "Fenesta che Lucive" & this would maybe have more to do with
liking the actual song more, strangely enough...
I have to say I get such a kick out of Mario's "Comme Facette
Mammeta?" it's a great wee personality piece from Mario & talk about
family favourites "’O Surdato ‘Nnamurato" is another one, my Italian
grandmother, Maria Antonia Di Placido used to sing that song when she
visited us back when I was a wee boy in the 1970's, my grandfather &
all the other Italian soldiers use to sing that during the 1st World
War she used to tell me... In fact my dad could never get his father
to acknowledge Mario Lanza as a great singer & it was only after he
sat him down & played him the then new "Mario!" album that he
understood what a great artist Mario was & what really won him over
was hearing his old WWI song "O Surdato 'Nnamurato" on the album, that
made Mario OK in his book!
Actually I found an old cassette tape of my grandmother singing a
snippet of "’O Surdato ‘Nnamurato" that my older brother, Mario,
recorded on one of her visits to us, she was 78 in 1974 (& started in
too high a key & was writing her own lyrics I think) but it is just
adorable...
http://www.4shared.com/file/141787248/38326b85/Maria_Antonia_Di_Placido.html
love Mario's performance, actually if you were to put me on the spot
(which I don't want you to do because I love the album genuinely as a
whole) I would maybe put it "just" below the "big 5" Voce 'e Notte,
Canta Pe' Me, Tu Ca Nun Chiagne,
'Na Sera 'e Maggio, and Passione. & "just" above "Santa Lucia Luntana"
and "Fenesta che Lucive" & this would maybe have more to do with
liking the actual song more, strangely enough...
I have to say I get such a kick out of Mario's "Comme Facette
Mammeta?" it's a great wee personality piece from Mario & talk about
family favourites "’O Surdato ‘Nnamurato" is another one, my Italian
grandmother, Maria Antonia Di Placido used to sing that song when she
visited us back when I was a wee boy in the 1970's, my grandfather &
all the other Italian soldiers use to sing that during the 1st World
War she used to tell me... In fact my dad could never get his father
to acknowledge Mario Lanza as a great singer & it was only after he
sat him down & played him the then new "Mario!" album that he
understood what a great artist Mario was & what really won him over
was hearing his old WWI song "O Surdato 'Nnamurato" on the album, that
made Mario OK in his book!
Actually I found an old cassette tape of my grandmother singing a
snippet of "’O Surdato ‘Nnamurato" that my older brother, Mario,
recorded on one of her visits to us, she was 78 in 1974 (& started in
too high a key & was writing her own lyrics I think) but it is just
adorable...
http://www.4shared.com/file/141787248/38326b85/Maria_Antonia_Di_Placido.html
leeann
Oct 18, 2009, 7:24:04 PM10/18/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
I am definitely a Maria Antonia Di Placido fan! It's nice to have a
personal take on these songs. Thanks, and very best wishes for the
success of your new CD. Many of us seem to be looking forward to
hearing how we can order it from the States.
Dicitencello Vuje is one of my favorites--perhaps a teeny bit because
I can sing along in the car with the windows up, but mostly I like the
words and music (although without the third verse it's a bit well,
incomplete. But when I listened on the new CD, I found I was laughing
out loud before Mario Lanza even got to "vosta." He's just so in-your-
face on this one. A cowboy. And then, even to my untrained ear, there
seem to be issues of odd tempi, voice and orchestra in different
places, an absence of the phenomenal Lanza phrasing.
But it's sparked some really interesting and heartfelt discussions
across the Lanza world about where a take like that belongs. I've
been wondering what the convention is in the musical world for this
kind of thing with other singers and music. When you're working in
history (my field), you look at materials from the past and try to
make sense of them, to explain them in some kind of narrative or
coherent fashion. You don't just spew things out in no particular
order because they're in an archive or museum. You interpret.
It seems to me that this is what Vince Di Placido said in another
venue when he suggested a CD of Mario Lanza's work that represent some
of his lesser pieces accurately, e.g. this one is "one-off broadcast
odds & ends." From my point of view, Mario Lanza is as much a part of
the historical record of music as he is part of the present. And the
balance is going to continue to shift more towards history than
today's top-100 classical best-seller list. I have to say, too, it
seems kind of odd that the compilation and representation of the work
of perhaps greatest natural tenor of the twentieth century would be
undertaken without the weighted input of people who know music.
I did find one online article that seemed to show that people beyond
the Lanza world are grappling with this problem. It's an article on
Classics Today called The Business of Selling Garbage. If you're
interested, you'll find it here: http://www.classicstoday.com/features/f1_0603.asp
The author is mostly talking about symphonic recordings, but he's
talking about releasing "sub-par, unauthorized (by the deceased artist
in question) performances." I won't recap the whole article, but he
also discusses balancing the demands of the fans against the standards
of the artist and the standards of good music.
AND last. The Great Neapolitan Song Thread on this forum (2007) was
great to revisit in conjunction with these new releases on the
Songbook CD. Best, Lee Ann
Vince Di Placido
Oct 18, 2009, 7:53:28 PM10/18/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Leeann, my grandmother was just the most adorable woman, such a shame
she died when I was quite young, would have loved to have shared my
love of music with her, she had a lovely sweet voice, that clip
doesn't do her justice, the other songs she sang that afternoon that
Mario recorded show a lovely voice, she just kept singing &
singing... :-)
Oh! Thanks for the interest, you can order my cd on www.vincentdiplacido.com
she died when I was quite young, would have loved to have shared my
love of music with her, she had a lovely sweet voice, that clip
doesn't do her justice, the other songs she sang that afternoon that
Mario recorded show a lovely voice, she just kept singing &
singing... :-)
Oh! Thanks for the interest, you can order my cd on www.vincentdiplacido.com
Message has been deleted
Derek McGovern
Oct 19, 2009, 1:41:38 AM10/19/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
On Oct 19, 12:24 pm, leeann <leeanngha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I did find one online article that seemed to show that people beyond
> the Lanza world are grappling with this problem. It's an article on
> Classics Today called The Business of Selling Garbage. If you're
> interested, you'll find it here:http://www.classicstoday.com/features/f1_0603.asp
Thank you for this link, Lee Ann! There are definitely some salient
> I did find one online article that seemed to show that people beyond
> the Lanza world are grappling with this problem. It's an article on
> Classics Today called The Business of Selling Garbage. If you're
> interested, you'll find it here:http://www.classicstoday.com/features/f1_0603.asp
observations in there that could equally apply to the case of Lanza,
especially these comments:
"There is no doubt whatsoever (in my mind anyway) that the label in
question releases its recordings solely on the basis of “fame”, with
scant (if any) regard to the musical quality of the product in
question. They do this because they know that some artists have a
following which will purchase the discs irrespective of how good or
bad they actually are.
"Is there anything inherently wrong with this from a purely
capitalistic point of view? No, there isn’t. There’s nothing wrong
with meeting a demand, and fans of any great musician certainly have a
right to clamor for every recorded scrap they can get their hands on,
and labels in a position to meet that demand have every right to act
accordingly. The problems begin when you move beyond the niche group
of “fandom” and into the world that the rest of us inhabit."
Very interesting.
Glad to hear that the Great Neapolitan Song Thread was great to
revisit!
Cheers
Derek
Derek McGovern
Oct 19, 2009, 1:47:01 AM10/19/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Vince: What a cute memento of your grandmother!! At 78, there was
still a voice there too. What a sweetheart she sounds. I think it's
great that your brother had the presence of mind to turn the tape
recorder on that day. (Funnily, enough, I went through a stage in my
mid-teens of recording all my grandparents too -- not singing, but
reminiscing -- and now that they're all gone, those tapes mean a lot
to the family.) Have you thought of recording your father's memories
of the time he heard Lanza sing in person?
I was being mean by asking you to name your favourites from the
"Mario!" album :-) And, yes, I agree about Come Facette Mammeta; it's
a perfect little gem of a recording. That critic (Burnett James) who
claimed that Lanza doesn't relish the words on his recording -- that
he "simply rolls his tongue around a collection of vowels and
consonants" -- ought to have been despatched to your grandmother for a
suitable punishment!
And who wouldn't be fond of Lanza's 'O Surdato 'Nnammurato? The only
thing I would have suggested for this recording is putting it up a
semitone just to give it a tiny bit more vibrancy. Still, it's pretty
rollicking as it is, and Mario is obviously having great fun here.
I was just thinking how lucky we are that there aren't Coke versions
of *all* of the songs on the "Mario!" album, especially if they were
anything like the 1952 Dicitencello Vuie. After all, we know what
would have happened! Yet it's inconceivable that Lanza could have sung
a brilliant Passione or Voce 'e Notte in 1951-2 given all the factors
against him at the time (lack of rehearsal time, poor conducting,
tacky arrangements -- and just the general absence of the creative
environment he needed in order to flourish).
still a voice there too. What a sweetheart she sounds. I think it's
great that your brother had the presence of mind to turn the tape
recorder on that day. (Funnily, enough, I went through a stage in my
mid-teens of recording all my grandparents too -- not singing, but
reminiscing -- and now that they're all gone, those tapes mean a lot
to the family.) Have you thought of recording your father's memories
of the time he heard Lanza sing in person?
I was being mean by asking you to name your favourites from the
"Mario!" album :-) And, yes, I agree about Come Facette Mammeta; it's
a perfect little gem of a recording. That critic (Burnett James) who
claimed that Lanza doesn't relish the words on his recording -- that
he "simply rolls his tongue around a collection of vowels and
consonants" -- ought to have been despatched to your grandmother for a
suitable punishment!
And who wouldn't be fond of Lanza's 'O Surdato 'Nnammurato? The only
thing I would have suggested for this recording is putting it up a
semitone just to give it a tiny bit more vibrancy. Still, it's pretty
rollicking as it is, and Mario is obviously having great fun here.
I was just thinking how lucky we are that there aren't Coke versions
of *all* of the songs on the "Mario!" album, especially if they were
anything like the 1952 Dicitencello Vuie. After all, we know what
would have happened! Yet it's inconceivable that Lanza could have sung
a brilliant Passione or Voce 'e Notte in 1951-2 given all the factors
against him at the time (lack of rehearsal time, poor conducting,
tacky arrangements -- and just the general absence of the creative
environment he needed in order to flourish).
Derek McGovern
Oct 19, 2009, 1:51:44 AM10/19/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
"And who wouldn't be fond of Lanza's 'O Surdato 'Nnammurato? The only
thing I would have suggested for this recording is putting it up a
semitone just to give it a tiny bit more vibrancy."
Just to clarify the above: of course, I meant that it would have been
thing I would have suggested for this recording is putting it up a
semitone just to give it a tiny bit more vibrancy."
interesting if Lanza had *sung* the song in a slightly higher key. I
certainly wasn't suggesting that RCA should have tweaked the
recording!
Vince Di Placido
Oct 19, 2009, 8:19:57 AM10/19/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Completely off topic now but here are a few short clips of my
grandmother singing that afternoon in 1974, you can hear me in the
background occasionally (I was 3!)
By the way the reason my brother, Mario, did the recording was that my
dad hadn't come home from work in time & it was a way of leaving a
message for him...
http://www.4shared.com/file/141914454/9bdc6b2/07_-_Maria_Antonia_Di_Placido.html
http://www.4shared.com/file/141915324/fb0f2195/08_-_Maria_Antonia_Di_Placido.html
http://www.4shared.com/file/141917067/ae25c3f9/09_-_Maria_Antonia_Di_Placido.html
grandmother singing that afternoon in 1974, you can hear me in the
background occasionally (I was 3!)
By the way the reason my brother, Mario, did the recording was that my
dad hadn't come home from work in time & it was a way of leaving a
message for him...
http://www.4shared.com/file/141914454/9bdc6b2/07_-_Maria_Antonia_Di_Placido.html
http://www.4shared.com/file/141915324/fb0f2195/08_-_Maria_Antonia_Di_Placido.html
http://www.4shared.com/file/141917067/ae25c3f9/09_-_Maria_Antonia_Di_Placido.html
Tonytenor
Oct 19, 2009, 5:58:40 PM10/19/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Great Postings and I still marvel at the diversity and insight our
members have. I have to put my two-cents in though and say that, for
me, "Santa Lucia luntana" is a great highlight of the MARIO album. It
surely is not the most taxing song on the album and not the most
overtly passionate or emotional. But the way Mario sings this lovely
canzone just moves me greatly. It is an especially fine and classic
reading when one compares it (the MARIO album recording) to the same
song he recorded for radio show. It seems to me that the Coke show
recording lacks virtually all that makes this such a beautiful and
very moving song. I might even go so far as to say that Lanza wasn't
"seasoned" enough, hadn't lived enough of life to be completely
emotionally convincing. Another point, and one none too small, is the
consideration of the different arrangements and, perhaps most
importantly, the different conductors.
There are so much that is Mario and his finest on the MARIO album. I,
for some reason, hold "Santa Lucia luntana" in very high regard.
Cheers to all,
Tony
On Oct 19, 7:19 am, Vince Di Placido <vincent.diplac...@gmail.com>
wrote:
members have. I have to put my two-cents in though and say that, for
me, "Santa Lucia luntana" is a great highlight of the MARIO album. It
surely is not the most taxing song on the album and not the most
overtly passionate or emotional. But the way Mario sings this lovely
canzone just moves me greatly. It is an especially fine and classic
reading when one compares it (the MARIO album recording) to the same
song he recorded for radio show. It seems to me that the Coke show
recording lacks virtually all that makes this such a beautiful and
very moving song. I might even go so far as to say that Lanza wasn't
"seasoned" enough, hadn't lived enough of life to be completely
emotionally convincing. Another point, and one none too small, is the
consideration of the different arrangements and, perhaps most
importantly, the different conductors.
There are so much that is Mario and his finest on the MARIO album. I,
for some reason, hold "Santa Lucia luntana" in very high regard.
Cheers to all,
Tony
On Oct 19, 7:19 am, Vince Di Placido <vincent.diplac...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> Completely off topic now but here are a few short clips of my
> grandmother singing that afternoon in 1974, you can hear me in the
> background occasionally (I was 3!)
> By the way the reason my brother, Mario, did the recording was that my
> dad hadn't come home from work in time & it was a way of leaving a
> message for him...http://www.4shared.com/file/141914454/9bdc6b2/07_-_Maria_Antonia_Di_P...http://www.4shared.com/file/141915324/fb0f2195/08_-_Maria_Antonia_Di_...http://www.4shared.com/file/141917067/ae25c3f9/09_-_Maria_Antonia_Di_...> grandmother singing that afternoon in 1974, you can hear me in the
> background occasionally (I was 3!)
> By the way the reason my brother, Mario, did the recording was that my
> dad hadn't come home from work in time & it was a way of leaving a
Tonytenor
Oct 19, 2009, 6:51:48 PM10/19/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
So sorry folks, it was wrong of me to concentrate on the "Santa Lucia
luntana" from the MARIO album as this is a thread for the radio show
recordings. Well, here goes. To follow are some, by no means all, of
Lanza's radio show recordings I count as personal favorites:
"The Touch Of Your Hand" (I can hear Armando and Derek groaning all
the way here in Minnesota, USA. Sorry fellas, I just like the song
and while it is certainly not perfect, I think Mario has some very
strong moments in it. I especially like the phrasing and his tone on
the line at the end.."On sea or on land..." The way he sings "land"
is so passionate and convincing - at least to my ears.)
"The World Is Mine Tonight" (A wonderful reading of this lovely song
made famous by the tenor Nino Martini I believe. Mario's sounds in
good voice and it's a pretty good "C" at the end.)
"Tell Me Tonight" (Perhaps my all time favorite radio show recording.
The song is fabulous and Mario's phrasing on it is marvelous and his
emotional conviction is palpable. He is particularly strong in the
finale of the song. "Say with those lips divine.... The legato line
and phrasing is not only incredible, it is innate. No one taught
Mario how to sing like that, or tell the "story" of the song in such a
complete and involved way.)
- Just a quick, final thought on the Coke show recordings in general.
It has always seemed to me as though Ray Sinatra, or Callinicos, or
whoever is conducting on these recordings is racing against the
clock. It's hard for me to think of too many of Mario's Coke
recordings that do not seem rushed to me. Perhaps it was simply the
limited time issue and nothing more. -
Ciao,
Tony
> > message for him...http://www.4shared.com/file/141914454/9bdc6b2/07_-_Maria_Antonia_Di_P......- Hide quoted text -
luntana" from the MARIO album as this is a thread for the radio show
recordings. Well, here goes. To follow are some, by no means all, of
Lanza's radio show recordings I count as personal favorites:
"The Touch Of Your Hand" (I can hear Armando and Derek groaning all
the way here in Minnesota, USA. Sorry fellas, I just like the song
and while it is certainly not perfect, I think Mario has some very
strong moments in it. I especially like the phrasing and his tone on
the line at the end.."On sea or on land..." The way he sings "land"
is so passionate and convincing - at least to my ears.)
"The World Is Mine Tonight" (A wonderful reading of this lovely song
made famous by the tenor Nino Martini I believe. Mario's sounds in
good voice and it's a pretty good "C" at the end.)
"Tell Me Tonight" (Perhaps my all time favorite radio show recording.
The song is fabulous and Mario's phrasing on it is marvelous and his
emotional conviction is palpable. He is particularly strong in the
finale of the song. "Say with those lips divine.... The legato line
and phrasing is not only incredible, it is innate. No one taught
Mario how to sing like that, or tell the "story" of the song in such a
complete and involved way.)
- Just a quick, final thought on the Coke show recordings in general.
It has always seemed to me as though Ray Sinatra, or Callinicos, or
whoever is conducting on these recordings is racing against the
clock. It's hard for me to think of too many of Mario's Coke
recordings that do not seem rushed to me. Perhaps it was simply the
limited time issue and nothing more. -
Ciao,
Tony
fish
Oct 19, 2009, 11:53:47 PM10/19/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Hi Tony, I agree with you about the time factor on the Coke Shows but
don't you think that at the end of a lot of his songs on those shows
he sounds as though he is "forcing" out the last few words? As a good
example just listen to the ending of "Deep In My Heart" and compare it
to the version on the Student Prince recording!!!
I was reading your profile and was wondering if you have shared some
of the stories C.Callinicos told you about Mario, in previous years
before I joined? It would be very interesting to hear them. Anita
> > > message for him...http://www.4shared.com/file/141914454/9bdc6b2/07_-_Maria_Antonia_Di_P...Hide quoted text -
don't you think that at the end of a lot of his songs on those shows
he sounds as though he is "forcing" out the last few words? As a good
example just listen to the ending of "Deep In My Heart" and compare it
to the version on the Student Prince recording!!!
I was reading your profile and was wondering if you have shared some
of the stories C.Callinicos told you about Mario, in previous years
before I joined? It would be very interesting to hear them. Anita
Joseph Fagan
Oct 20, 2009, 12:10:10 AM10/20/09
to mario...@googlegroups.com
Tony!, like you.....I also think that "Tell Me Tonight" is a fantastic example of Mario's incredible ability to bring emotions to life, vocally. His phrasing of "Say with those Lips Divine....." always gets me also. I don't know how our musical forum experts view this song critically, but to me: Stupendous! ( I am glad to learn I am not alone on this)
Derek McGovern
Oct 20, 2009, 6:25:23 AM10/20/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Hi Tony & Joe: I suggest you carry this discussion (on Tell Me
Tonight) over to the new thread that Bob's just started on the English
songs from the Coke Shows.
> >http://www.4shared.com/file/141914454/9bdc6b2/07_-_Maria_Antonia_Di_P...quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Tonight) over to the new thread that Bob's just started on the English
songs from the Coke Shows.
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Tonytenor
Oct 20, 2009, 3:50:55 PM10/20/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Will do Derek. Thanks!
> > >http://www.4shared.com/file/141914454/9bdc6b2/07_-_Maria_Antonia_Di_P...text -
Mike McAdam
Nov 8, 2009, 8:45:30 PM11/8/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
I had intended to put this creation of mine in this thread back when
it was still current. I have had more than a few problems with my
service provider of late so have taken Derek's advice and opened an
account at 4shared.com
My bit of dabbling here should provide an opportunity (for those who
wish to have a listen) to hear the frantic, spontaneous 1952
"Dicitencello Vuie" juxtaposed with the more restrained 1958 version.
I had to slow the tempo of the Coke version a tad to match the
"Mario!" version.
I think it provides a pretty graphic example of the contrast between
those two voices (and his two approaches); the one from his radio show
days and that belonging to his more craftsmanlike latter period. Hope
you like it.
http://www.4shared.com/account/file/148717761/ed9b54ea/Dicitencello52alt58.html
Cheers, Mike
On Oct 17, 4:23 am, Derek McGovern <derek.mcgov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just following on from my earlier post, I've been playing Lanza's two
> versions of Dicitencello Vuie this evening (trying in vain to
> understand why so many fans seem to love the Coke rendition!), and I
> have to say that the differences between them continue to amaze me. It
> really is like listening to two completely different singers.
>
> Here's an audio link to the 1952 version, as it was originally
> broadcast (with canned applause, etc):
>
> http://www.4shared.com/account/file/141444519/66dc8992/Dicitencello_V...
it was still current. I have had more than a few problems with my
service provider of late so have taken Derek's advice and opened an
account at 4shared.com
My bit of dabbling here should provide an opportunity (for those who
wish to have a listen) to hear the frantic, spontaneous 1952
"Dicitencello Vuie" juxtaposed with the more restrained 1958 version.
I had to slow the tempo of the Coke version a tad to match the
"Mario!" version.
I think it provides a pretty graphic example of the contrast between
those two voices (and his two approaches); the one from his radio show
days and that belonging to his more craftsmanlike latter period. Hope
you like it.
http://www.4shared.com/account/file/148717761/ed9b54ea/Dicitencello52alt58.html
Cheers, Mike
On Oct 17, 4:23 am, Derek McGovern <derek.mcgov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just following on from my earlier post, I've been playing Lanza's two
> versions of Dicitencello Vuie this evening (trying in vain to
> understand why so many fans seem to love the Coke rendition!), and I
> have to say that the differences between them continue to amaze me. It
> really is like listening to two completely different singers.
>
> Here's an audio link to the 1952 version, as it was originally
> broadcast (with canned applause, etc):
>
>
> And here's the 1958 version, as it sounded on the original stereo LP:
>
> http://www.4shared.com/account/file/141442786/14ea4f8/Dicitencello_Vu...
> And here's the 1958 version, as it sounded on the original stereo LP:
>
Derek McGovern
Nov 9, 2009, 1:03:51 AM11/9/09
to mario...@googlegroups.com
Hi Mike: "Graphic" is certainly the word! One performance is
beautifully controlled, the other out of control :-) And while there's
no doubt that Mario's 1952 voice is fresher and more youthful, I was
immediately struck by how perfectly conductor Franco Ferrara summed up
the 1958 Lanza: "a Caruso-type voice" of "steel and warmth."
beautifully controlled, the other out of control :-) And while there's
no doubt that Mario's 1952 voice is fresher and more youthful, I was
immediately struck by how perfectly conductor Franco Ferrara summed up
the 1958 Lanza: "a Caruso-type voice" of "steel and warmth."
The comparison also reinforces the intelligence of Mario's approach on
his 1958 version. His first verse is more restrained, as he realizes
that the real passion should be reserved for the second verse.
Remember that in the first verse, he's supposedly relaying the
thoughts of his friend, and in the second he reveals that the feelings
are really *his*. But the 1952 version is unrestrained passion from
start to finish :-)
Another very interesting experiment, Mike!
Thanks!
Vince Di Placido
Nov 16, 2009, 6:27:47 AM11/16/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Hi, Mike! That was a great wee experiment & goodness it shows the
difference in Mario's approach & progression into a fully formed
interpretive artist! It always amazes me that the operatic &
Neapolitan material suffer so much on the Coke show & that there are
so many masterful english language performances... I know this has a
lot to do with what the orchestra were comfortable with & of course
the rehearsal time but still you think thee would be more definitive
performances of operatic & Neapolitan material over the run of the
show...
difference in Mario's approach & progression into a fully formed
interpretive artist! It always amazes me that the operatic &
Neapolitan material suffer so much on the Coke show & that there are
so many masterful english language performances... I know this has a
lot to do with what the orchestra were comfortable with & of course
the rehearsal time but still you think thee would be more definitive
performances of operatic & Neapolitan material over the run of the
show...
Mike McAdam
Nov 17, 2009, 9:08:26 AM11/17/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Hi Vince & Derek: glad you two chaps had a chance to listen to that
little montage (I think the rest of the members are likely fed up with
this "old" Neapolitan thread and are politely ignoring it? ;-)
Here's another selection where I've spliced the song line for line
between the Radio show and later Rome outings to do a real A/B
comparison. I omitted the middle part to keep the file a reasonable
length.
I had to alter the pitch of the '52 recording by about 25 cents (1/4
tone down approx.) to have the two in the same key. It was running
fast on my recording.
Love the way Mario gives a little groan on the last note in the '58
recording.
Here's the link:
http://www.4shared.com/file/149568106/20d47c84/Fenesta5258.html
Let me know what you think.
Cheers, Mike
On Nov 16, 7:27 am, Vince Di Placido <vincent.diplac...@gmail.com>
wrote:
little montage (I think the rest of the members are likely fed up with
this "old" Neapolitan thread and are politely ignoring it? ;-)
Here's another selection where I've spliced the song line for line
between the Radio show and later Rome outings to do a real A/B
comparison. I omitted the middle part to keep the file a reasonable
length.
I had to alter the pitch of the '52 recording by about 25 cents (1/4
tone down approx.) to have the two in the same key. It was running
fast on my recording.
Love the way Mario gives a little groan on the last note in the '58
recording.
Here's the link:
http://www.4shared.com/file/149568106/20d47c84/Fenesta5258.html
Let me know what you think.
Cheers, Mike
On Nov 16, 7:27 am, Vince Di Placido <vincent.diplac...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Joseph Fagan
Nov 17, 2009, 1:22:33 PM11/17/09
to mario...@googlegroups.com
Very interesting Mike, thanks. I loved both voices even though I generally prefer the younger, lighter Mario. Gold is Gold!
Derek McGovern
Nov 17, 2009, 6:37:32 PM11/17/09
to mario...@googlegroups.com
Hi Mike: These comparisons between young and older Lanza are
fascinating, but I think they'd be more meaningful if you didn't have
to alter the pitch. In this latest example, it's a bit unfair to the
earlier recording! Of course, the Coke Neapolitan and Italian
recordings tend to be in higher keys than the later versions, and
that's one of their many problems.
Cheers
Derek
PS I love the groan (or croak) at the end of the 1958 Fenesta che
Lucive as well! Whether intentional or accidental, it's completely
appropriate in the context of the song. What a beautiful job Mario
does on his later recording.
fascinating, but I think they'd be more meaningful if you didn't have
to alter the pitch. In this latest example, it's a bit unfair to the
earlier recording! Of course, the Coke Neapolitan and Italian
recordings tend to be in higher keys than the later versions, and
that's one of their many problems.
Cheers
Derek
PS I love the groan (or croak) at the end of the 1958 Fenesta che
Lucive as well! Whether intentional or accidental, it's completely
appropriate in the context of the song. What a beautiful job Mario
does on his later recording.
Armando
Nov 17, 2009, 6:52:15 PM11/17/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Hi Mike: Have been away taking advantage of some lovely springtime
weather for the last two weeks and have just caught up with the latest
on the forum.
Interesting experiments with both Dicitencello and Fenesta, but it’s
really no contest. Style wise the earlier performances are all wrong.
As a single example of how much better Lanza sang these songs in 1958
just listen to the two endings on Fenesta.
Mike McAdam
Nov 20, 2009, 8:10:23 PM11/20/09
to Mario Lanza, Tenor
Hey Derek: I just played along with the '52 Fenesta and it's in
perfect pitch-step with my instrument...in A-Flat Minor. Also checked
it on my electronic "tuning fork" (spectrum analyzer).
It's actually my CD transcription (from a Kiwi LP ;-) of the '58
version that's running about a 1/4 tone slow. I should have altered
that one up by 25 cents or so instead of the vice-versa I did.
There....that's my 25 cents worth on that subject! :-))
Cheers, Mike
On Nov 17, 7:37 pm, Derek McGovern <derek.mcgov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Mike: These comparisons between young and older Lanza are
> fascinating, but I think they'd be more meaningful if you didn't have
> to alter the pitch. In this latest example, it's a bit unfair to the
> earlier recording! Of course, the Coke Neapolitan and Italian
> recordings tend to be in higher keys than the later versions, and
> that's one of their many problems.
>
> Cheers
> Derek
>
> PS I love the groan (or croak) at the end of the 1958 Fenesta che
> Lucive as well! Whether intentional or accidental, it's completely
> appropriate in the context of the song. What a beautiful job Mario
> does on his later recording.
>
> >> show...- Hide quoted text -
perfect pitch-step with my instrument...in A-Flat Minor. Also checked
it on my electronic "tuning fork" (spectrum analyzer).
It's actually my CD transcription (from a Kiwi LP ;-) of the '58
version that's running about a 1/4 tone slow. I should have altered
that one up by 25 cents or so instead of the vice-versa I did.
There....that's my 25 cents worth on that subject! :-))
Cheers, Mike
On Nov 17, 7:37 pm, Derek McGovern <derek.mcgov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Mike: These comparisons between young and older Lanza are
> fascinating, but I think they'd be more meaningful if you didn't have
> to alter the pitch. In this latest example, it's a bit unfair to the
> earlier recording! Of course, the Coke Neapolitan and Italian
> recordings tend to be in higher keys than the later versions, and
> that's one of their many problems.
>
> Cheers
> Derek
>
> PS I love the groan (or croak) at the end of the 1958 Fenesta che
> Lucive as well! Whether intentional or accidental, it's completely
> appropriate in the context of the song. What a beautiful job Mario
> does on his later recording.
>
Derek McGovern
Nov 21, 2009, 4:49:52 AM11/21/09
to mario...@googlegroups.com
Mike: The 1958 Fenesta was *sung* in a lower key than the 1952
version. Mario takes it down a semitone. That's what's throwing you
and your trusty tuning fork off :-) I can assure you that your
original transcription of the 1958 version (supplied by a certain
Kiwi) was running at the right speed!
Actually, a lot of the Coke Neapolitan songs are in higher keys than
the later versions (Canta Pe' Me, for example) -- and that's another
one of their problems! "Higher and higher": that seems to have been
the motto of the Coke arrangers.
Cheers
Derek
version. Mario takes it down a semitone. That's what's throwing you
and your trusty tuning fork off :-) I can assure you that your
original transcription of the 1958 version (supplied by a certain
Kiwi) was running at the right speed!
Actually, a lot of the Coke Neapolitan songs are in higher keys than
the later versions (Canta Pe' Me, for example) -- and that's another
one of their problems! "Higher and higher": that seems to have been
the motto of the Coke arrangers.
Cheers
Derek
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