Did Mario Lanza have enough voice training?
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Sam
Feb 17, 2008, 9:40:26 AM2/17/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Over the years I have had to put up with "voice snobs" who would
insist that Mario was an "untrained" singer (even after I would play
his best recordings). Well, we know this is not true but even Rosati
said he was "rushed, rushed". My question to the forum is do you think
Mario had ENOUGH voice training?
Sam
insist that Mario was an "untrained" singer (even after I would play
his best recordings). Well, we know this is not true but even Rosati
said he was "rushed, rushed". My question to the forum is do you think
Mario had ENOUGH voice training?
Sam
Derek McGovern
Feb 17, 2008, 5:13:44 PM2/17/08
to mario...@googlegroups.com
That's an interesting question, Sam.
I feel that Lanza did have sufficient voice training. Even before he
started working with Rosati in 1946, he possessed a basic vocal
technique, having done some work with the likes of Robert Weede. But
the important thing to note is that the voice was perfectly placed
from the start. The notes were all there from top to bottom. What
Rosati taught him was the correct diaphragmatic support and breath
control to do justice to that natural voice, which included - as
George London later recalled - teaching him how to sing "more
lyrically, with less pressure".
The proof that Lanza had acquired a solid vocal technique after only
15 months of voice study with Rosati is all there in the 1947
Hollywood Bowl concert. Lanza sings three arias and three duets - all
of them very demanding, and including several B-flats and a couple of
high Cs - yet no strain in evident in his singing, the voice placement
is perfect, and at the end he sounds as though he could keep on
singing for hours. And the man was only 26!
The erratic nature of some of his Coca-Cola and other early 1950s
sessions wasn't the result of poor technique, but rather the lack of
regular performing from 1948 onwards. But what the critics are really
confusing here is technique with style. There's no doubt that
stylistically Lanza became sloppy in Hollywood. This had a lot to do
with the lack of time available to him for rehearsal; after all, it's
one thing to walk into a studio and sing an English love song with
minimal preparation, but quite another to sing a demanding operatic
aria. That's why the Coke English numbers are generally much more
successful than the operatic material.
But as Licia Albanese noted many years later, the only thing Lanza
needed was coaching. He had a fantastic retentive ear (as Leila
Edwards, who coached him for the role of Pinkerton, has commented),
and when he was working with the right people - eg, Spadoni - his
singing from a stylistic perspective could be outstanding. In his
book, Armando rightly points out the significant differences between
the 1950 O Paradiso and the 1955 version. The earlier performance is
sloppy and, frankly, pure Hollywood (you could also include the Coke
version in this respect) with its exaggerations and other mannerisms;
the later version, on which Lanza worked with Spadoni, is the singing
of a mature artist.
Don't let anyone try to tell you that Lanza lacked a proper technique.
And if the naysayers can't tell from listening to, say, the 1949 Che
Gelida Manina or the 1955 O Paradiso that the man definitely knew how
to sing correctly, then there's no hope for them!
jora...@comcast.net
Feb 17, 2008, 5:29:47 PM2/17/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Sam *does* raise a good point, since Mario had a lot more training
than people give him credit for~~~~albeit maybe still lacking. What
DOES constitute adequate training?; what did other tenors of his day
have by comparison ?e.g. the diStephano's, the Corellis etc.
Moreover, do tenors usually continue their "general" training ONCE
they make the big leagues ( opera), or do they only THEN do
"rehersals" for upcoming performances?
One obvious negative about the Coke shows was the lack of
preparation and training ( but we are still thrilled to have them).
Imagine if he *HAD* gone a different direction ( opera and concerts
only): we would have so much better rehearsed work , with better
arrangements and conductors.
than people give him credit for~~~~albeit maybe still lacking. What
DOES constitute adequate training?; what did other tenors of his day
have by comparison ?e.g. the diStephano's, the Corellis etc.
Moreover, do tenors usually continue their "general" training ONCE
they make the big leagues ( opera), or do they only THEN do
"rehersals" for upcoming performances?
One obvious negative about the Coke shows was the lack of
preparation and training ( but we are still thrilled to have them).
Imagine if he *HAD* gone a different direction ( opera and concerts
only): we would have so much better rehearsed work , with better
arrangements and conductors.
Derek McGovern
Feb 17, 2008, 6:57:59 PM2/17/08
to mario...@googlegroups.com
Joe: The voice teacher's role is to provide the aspiring professional
singer with the fundamentals for a long career. These include teaching
the student how to support the voice and sing as evenly as possible
throughout one's range. If the student has learned bad habits, eg,
forcing the voice, or not covering on the passaggio notes - as indeed
happened to Di Stefano (not "di Stephano", by the way! :-)) - the
teacher's job is to correct them.
singer with the fundamentals for a long career. These include teaching
the student how to support the voice and sing as evenly as possible
throughout one's range. If the student has learned bad habits, eg,
forcing the voice, or not covering on the passaggio notes - as indeed
happened to Di Stefano (not "di Stephano", by the way! :-)) - the
teacher's job is to correct them.
Rosati taught Lanza how to sing for hours without tiring, and also to
hold back on using the full spinto quality of the voice too early in
his development. (That's why Mario sounds more lyric on his 1947-49
recordings.) No doubt Rosati also taught Lanza about the importance of
pacing himself in an opera.
Further study would have probably given Lanza more self-confidence,
but let's face it: Mario already had what he needed to enjoy a long
career. As I wrote before, he just needed coaching in order to work on
the musical and interpretive aspects of the pieces that he was going
to perform. He also needed to be working out (vocally) for hours every
day - just as an athlete needs to do in order to maintain his/her
physique - and, sadly, that's something that started to slip once the
pressures & demands of Hollywood stardom took hold.
By the way, you mentioned Corelli and his training. Yes, Corelli
studied voice for much longer than Lanza - and for good reason: he had
to! For one thing, he didn't have an upper register in the beginning.
Armando
Feb 17, 2008, 9:00:31 PM2/17/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Hi Derek I wrote the following before I saw your reply to Joe so here
it goes:
Sam, If you want an honest reaction to Lanza singing, adequate
technique, etc. Just do what I did a number of times over the years.
Don't tell them who the tenor is, just make up a name, any name.
If whoever you play some of the best of Lanza's operatic selections
understands any thing about singing technique I think you'll find that
the response will be more than enthusiastic.
Did he need to study more? In my opinion definitively not. Whatever
for? As Derek pointed out just listen to the 1947, 48, 49, singing,
it's all there. The same with Di Stefano (in answer to Joe's query).
And make no mistake, Di Stefano had a technique at the start, but he
studied very little since the voice, as in Lanza's case, was all
there, a miracle of natural gifts.
On the other hand if you happen to have a basic voice, but not the
complete range or control over it, then you certainly do have to study
for a much longer period.
Corelli is a good example. He had to work hard to get rid of the
excessive bleat in his voice and the high notes were not all there at
the start. It took him six years before he could sing a high C and
nine years to finally place the voice correctly.
Both Caruso and Domingo had to do extensive work in order to extend
the compass of their voices and neither succeeded in having a secure
high C.
Del Monaco started off with a light lyric voice that could hardly be
heard. According to his own admission, in a rare moment of relative
humbleness, when he began his career was offered only Comprimario
roles and was so obsessed in building a bigger voice that he was able
to do so by sheer determination and sweat.
As for continuing to study, although Gigli has been quoted as saying
that you never stop studying, (well, it sounds good!) in reality what
a singer has to do is keep up his daily scales and breathing
exercises. These are a must. And, of course, one must work with a
coach when learning or going over a piece of music or a role, with a
pianist or conductor prior to performing in a concert, and with all
three when preparing a part in an opera.
As Derek stated, let's not confuse technique with style.
If one wants to target Lanza on stylistic lapses, then I'm the first
one to admit that the enemy has an abundance of ammunition to target
him with, particularly when it comes to some of his operatic output
between 1950 and 1952. In fact, instead of progressing Lanza had taken
a considerable backward step during those two years compared to his
pre- Hollywood singing.
Is it any wonder though! It's easy to develop bad habits if you are
not constantly surrounded and working with top musicians.
Place Di Stefano in the same environment of working with the likes of
Sinatra and Callinicos, with some abominable arrangements, blasting
orchestras, totally unsuited tempi, in rushed and under-rehearsed
conditions, and I venture that the results would be just as erratic.
By the same token, let Lanza work with someone like Serafin, De
Sabata, or any other of a half a dozen top conductors and I guarantee
his operatic performances would have been all, and not just some,
standout ones.
That he managed to achieve what he did, with only the occasional
improvement in those that were surrounding him, such as Spadoni and
Heindorf for the Serenade recordings, is in itself a miracle and
further proof of his immense innate musicality which no teacher can
give you.
it goes:
Sam, If you want an honest reaction to Lanza singing, adequate
technique, etc. Just do what I did a number of times over the years.
Don't tell them who the tenor is, just make up a name, any name.
If whoever you play some of the best of Lanza's operatic selections
understands any thing about singing technique I think you'll find that
the response will be more than enthusiastic.
Did he need to study more? In my opinion definitively not. Whatever
for? As Derek pointed out just listen to the 1947, 48, 49, singing,
it's all there. The same with Di Stefano (in answer to Joe's query).
And make no mistake, Di Stefano had a technique at the start, but he
studied very little since the voice, as in Lanza's case, was all
there, a miracle of natural gifts.
On the other hand if you happen to have a basic voice, but not the
complete range or control over it, then you certainly do have to study
for a much longer period.
Corelli is a good example. He had to work hard to get rid of the
excessive bleat in his voice and the high notes were not all there at
the start. It took him six years before he could sing a high C and
nine years to finally place the voice correctly.
Both Caruso and Domingo had to do extensive work in order to extend
the compass of their voices and neither succeeded in having a secure
high C.
Del Monaco started off with a light lyric voice that could hardly be
heard. According to his own admission, in a rare moment of relative
humbleness, when he began his career was offered only Comprimario
roles and was so obsessed in building a bigger voice that he was able
to do so by sheer determination and sweat.
As for continuing to study, although Gigli has been quoted as saying
that you never stop studying, (well, it sounds good!) in reality what
a singer has to do is keep up his daily scales and breathing
exercises. These are a must. And, of course, one must work with a
coach when learning or going over a piece of music or a role, with a
pianist or conductor prior to performing in a concert, and with all
three when preparing a part in an opera.
As Derek stated, let's not confuse technique with style.
If one wants to target Lanza on stylistic lapses, then I'm the first
one to admit that the enemy has an abundance of ammunition to target
him with, particularly when it comes to some of his operatic output
between 1950 and 1952. In fact, instead of progressing Lanza had taken
a considerable backward step during those two years compared to his
pre- Hollywood singing.
Is it any wonder though! It's easy to develop bad habits if you are
not constantly surrounded and working with top musicians.
Place Di Stefano in the same environment of working with the likes of
Sinatra and Callinicos, with some abominable arrangements, blasting
orchestras, totally unsuited tempi, in rushed and under-rehearsed
conditions, and I venture that the results would be just as erratic.
By the same token, let Lanza work with someone like Serafin, De
Sabata, or any other of a half a dozen top conductors and I guarantee
his operatic performances would have been all, and not just some,
standout ones.
That he managed to achieve what he did, with only the occasional
improvement in those that were surrounding him, such as Spadoni and
Heindorf for the Serenade recordings, is in itself a miracle and
further proof of his immense innate musicality which no teacher can
give you.
Jan Hodges
Feb 17, 2008, 9:18:08 PM2/17/08
to mario...@googlegroups.com
|
Hi Sam,
Taking into account the number of years he spent with singing teachers and the polishing off done by the 15 months with Rosati, I would say yes. Any little problems he may have had would have been ironed out by then, remembering he had a beautiful natural instrument to begin with. This is borne out by the recordings we have 1945-1949
He may have benefitted by specialist coaching and working with good conductors who could have helped him with stylistic approaches and opera roles. The voice production, breath control and the singing techniques however were secure. He would not have lasted the concert tour with the Bel Canto Trio had it not been so,
Jan | |||
|
|
Sam
Feb 19, 2008, 1:30:09 PM2/19/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
One thing I have never heard Mario do is take a note from forte and
SLOWLY and gradually bring it down to pianissimo. Many operatic
singers have enough command of their voices to do that. Mario has his
soft pedal, but it is not gradual but rather a shift (and you can hear
the shift). I am sure some of you can point out singers who had this
technique in their grasp. I just can't think of one right now.
Sam
> faint_grain11.jpg
> 1KViewDownload
SLOWLY and gradually bring it down to pianissimo. Many operatic
singers have enough command of their voices to do that. Mario has his
soft pedal, but it is not gradual but rather a shift (and you can hear
the shift). I am sure some of you can point out singers who had this
technique in their grasp. I just can't think of one right now.
Sam
> 1KViewDownload
Derek McGovern
Feb 19, 2008, 5:46:46 PM2/19/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
First of all, I'd like to thank Armando for his excellent post above.
It really ought to be compulsory reading for all those ill-informed
"experts" out there who regularly dismiss Lanza's vocal production.
And, Sam: I do recommend that you take Armando's advice about using
subterfuge when it comes to playing Lanza to those acquaintances of
yours!
Secondly, in response to your post above, Sam, I can only ask: what
about Lanza's MGM recording of All the Things You Are? At the end of
this superb rendition, on the lines "When all the things you are/are
mine", Lanza does indeed go from forte on the first "are" to mezza
voce without any break. It's a wonderful feat of vocal control; in
fact, the entire rendition is a great example of his mastery of vocal
dynamics. Here's the link for anyone who hasn't heard this gem of a
recording:
http://www.4shared.com/file/38326755/3df7a3ac/All_The_Things_You_Are__rare_outtake__Lanza_1951_-_superb.html
> > 1KViewDownload- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
It really ought to be compulsory reading for all those ill-informed
"experts" out there who regularly dismiss Lanza's vocal production.
And, Sam: I do recommend that you take Armando's advice about using
subterfuge when it comes to playing Lanza to those acquaintances of
yours!
Secondly, in response to your post above, Sam, I can only ask: what
about Lanza's MGM recording of All the Things You Are? At the end of
this superb rendition, on the lines "When all the things you are/are
mine", Lanza does indeed go from forte on the first "are" to mezza
voce without any break. It's a wonderful feat of vocal control; in
fact, the entire rendition is a great example of his mastery of vocal
dynamics. Here's the link for anyone who hasn't heard this gem of a
recording:
http://www.4shared.com/file/38326755/3df7a3ac/All_The_Things_You_Are__rare_outtake__Lanza_1951_-_superb.html
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sam
Feb 20, 2008, 10:43:22 AM2/20/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Derek: Thanks for lettting us revisit this classic piece of singing. I
enjoyed it very much and would rate it as one of his best songs. If
anyone could find a good example of going from forte to pianissimo, I
knew it would be you. However, what I was looking for was SLOW and
GRADUAL as done in opera-- and this example is quick. So, I still must
maintain that Mario did not have this skill in his grasp. I don't
think it is all that important, but tenors who have done this command
lots of respect. I think Armando would agree that it is one of the
harder vocal feats to accomplish.
Sam
On Feb 19, 5:46 pm, Derek McGovern <derek.mcgov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> First of all, I'd like to thank Armando for his excellent post above.
> It really ought to be compulsory reading for all those ill-informed
> "experts" out there who regularly dismiss Lanza's vocal production.
> And, Sam: I do recommend that you take Armando's advice about using
> subterfuge when it comes to playing Lanza to those acquaintances of
> yours!
>
> Secondly, in response to your post above, Sam, I can only ask: what
> about Lanza's MGM recording of All the Things You Are? At the end of
> this superb rendition, on the lines "When all the things you are/are
> mine", Lanza does indeed go from forte on the first "are" to mezza
> voce without any break. It's a wonderful feat of vocal control; in
> fact, the entire rendition is a great example of his mastery of vocal
> dynamics. Here's the link for anyone who hasn't heard this gem of a
> recording:
>
> http://www.4shared.com/file/38326755/3df7a3ac/All_The_Things_You_Are_...
enjoyed it very much and would rate it as one of his best songs. If
anyone could find a good example of going from forte to pianissimo, I
knew it would be you. However, what I was looking for was SLOW and
GRADUAL as done in opera-- and this example is quick. So, I still must
maintain that Mario did not have this skill in his grasp. I don't
think it is all that important, but tenors who have done this command
lots of respect. I think Armando would agree that it is one of the
harder vocal feats to accomplish.
Sam
On Feb 19, 5:46 pm, Derek McGovern <derek.mcgov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> First of all, I'd like to thank Armando for his excellent post above.
> It really ought to be compulsory reading for all those ill-informed
> "experts" out there who regularly dismiss Lanza's vocal production.
> And, Sam: I do recommend that you take Armando's advice about using
> subterfuge when it comes to playing Lanza to those acquaintances of
> yours!
>
> Secondly, in response to your post above, Sam, I can only ask: what
> about Lanza's MGM recording of All the Things You Are? At the end of
> this superb rendition, on the lines "When all the things you are/are
> mine", Lanza does indeed go from forte on the first "are" to mezza
> voce without any break. It's a wonderful feat of vocal control; in
> fact, the entire rendition is a great example of his mastery of vocal
> dynamics. Here's the link for anyone who hasn't heard this gem of a
> recording:
>
>
> On Feb 20, 7:30 am, Sam <s...@bee.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > One thing I have never heard Mario do is take a note from forte and
> > SLOWLY and gradually bring it down to pianissimo. Many operatic
> > singers have enough command of their voices to do that. Mario has his
> > soft pedal, but it is not gradual but rather a shift (and you can hear
> > the shift). I am sure some of you can point out singers who had this
> > technique in their grasp. I just can't think of one right now.
> > Sam
>
> > On Feb 17, 9:18 pm, "Jan Hodges" <jmhod...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
>
> > > Hi Sam,
> > > Taking into account the number of years he spent with singing teachers
> > > and the polishing off done by the 15 months with Rosati, I would say yes.
> > > Any little problems he may have had would have been ironed out by then,
> > > remembering he had a beautiful natural instrument to begin with. This is
> > > borne out by the recordings we have 1945-1949
> > > He may have benefitted by specialist coaching and working with good
> > > conductors who could have helped him with stylistic approaches and opera
> > > roles. The voice production, breath control and the singing techniques
> > > however were secure. He would not have lasted the concert tour with the Bel
> > > Canto Trio had it not been so,
> > > Jan
>
> > > faint_grain11.jpg
> > > 1KViewDownload- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
> On Feb 20, 7:30 am, Sam <s...@bee.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > One thing I have never heard Mario do is take a note from forte and
> > SLOWLY and gradually bring it down to pianissimo. Many operatic
> > singers have enough command of their voices to do that. Mario has his
> > soft pedal, but it is not gradual but rather a shift (and you can hear
> > the shift). I am sure some of you can point out singers who had this
> > technique in their grasp. I just can't think of one right now.
> > Sam
>
> > On Feb 17, 9:18 pm, "Jan Hodges" <jmhod...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
>
> > > Hi Sam,
> > > Taking into account the number of years he spent with singing teachers
> > > and the polishing off done by the 15 months with Rosati, I would say yes.
> > > Any little problems he may have had would have been ironed out by then,
> > > remembering he had a beautiful natural instrument to begin with. This is
> > > borne out by the recordings we have 1945-1949
> > > He may have benefitted by specialist coaching and working with good
> > > conductors who could have helped him with stylistic approaches and opera
> > > roles. The voice production, breath control and the singing techniques
> > > however were secure. He would not have lasted the concert tour with the Bel
> > > Canto Trio had it not been so,
> > > Jan
>
> > > faint_grain11.jpg
> > > 1KViewDownload- Hide quoted text -
>
Joe Fagan
Feb 20, 2008, 11:51:52 AM2/20/08
to mario...@googlegroups.com
I loved your example Derek, made your point very lucid,,,,,,,,was ez to
hear the transition. I wish you had time to do *more* of this i.e.
highlighting the good points as well as the bad ones .....with links! Very
instructive to we amateurs. Maybe u should be teaching music appreciation
rather than English?? I think u would enjoy it more!
hear the transition. I wish you had time to do *more* of this i.e.
highlighting the good points as well as the bad ones .....with links! Very
instructive to we amateurs. Maybe u should be teaching music appreciation
rather than English?? I think u would enjoy it more!
Jana
Feb 20, 2008, 5:29:31 PM2/20/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Thank you for the link, Derek. IMHO, Mario's voice was able to do
virtually anything. I always liked to listen to Che Gelida Manina and
the 1949 Celeste Aida after each other, to hear what capacity his
voice had. After reading the respective chapter in Armando's book, I
almost could not believe Mario recorded these two arias exactly in
this order, on the same date. You know I am a novice in this genre, so
these all are just viewpoints of a non-expert, but I think it is more
difficult to change the voice quickly. It may be a bit showing off, I
don't know, all I know is that it works for me; especially in this
song. I think, when Mario had a proper guidance, his interpretations
were flawless. No matter if interpreting the song consisted of going
to mezza voice, or whatever--think of the ending of one of my
favourites, Ideale: "Torna, caro ideal... torna... torna".
Derek, I don't know about your English Literature lectures, but I'm
sure the thesis is extremely difficult and the names of the chapters
sound fascinating. You must be a great teacher: I don't dare to say
you should teach music appreciation instead of English Literature. I'm
afraid the academical environment is too rigid to let you do both.
Nevertheless, could you somehow connect it with the American cultureal
studies, perhaps? :-) I wouldn't object if it could be some
international program, but I'm probably dreaming here :-) Anyway, good
luck with your thesis!
> > - Show quoted text -- Skrýt citovaný text -
>
> - Zobrazit citovaný text -
virtually anything. I always liked to listen to Che Gelida Manina and
the 1949 Celeste Aida after each other, to hear what capacity his
voice had. After reading the respective chapter in Armando's book, I
almost could not believe Mario recorded these two arias exactly in
this order, on the same date. You know I am a novice in this genre, so
these all are just viewpoints of a non-expert, but I think it is more
difficult to change the voice quickly. It may be a bit showing off, I
don't know, all I know is that it works for me; especially in this
song. I think, when Mario had a proper guidance, his interpretations
were flawless. No matter if interpreting the song consisted of going
to mezza voice, or whatever--think of the ending of one of my
favourites, Ideale: "Torna, caro ideal... torna... torna".
Derek, I don't know about your English Literature lectures, but I'm
sure the thesis is extremely difficult and the names of the chapters
sound fascinating. You must be a great teacher: I don't dare to say
you should teach music appreciation instead of English Literature. I'm
afraid the academical environment is too rigid to let you do both.
Nevertheless, could you somehow connect it with the American cultureal
studies, perhaps? :-) I wouldn't object if it could be some
international program, but I'm probably dreaming here :-) Anyway, good
luck with your thesis!
>
> - Zobrazit citovaný text -
Jan Hodges
Feb 20, 2008, 6:09:10 PM2/20/08
to mario...@googlegroups.com
|
Jana wrote <No matter if interpreting the song consisted of going
To mezza voice, or whatever--think of the ending of one of my
Favourites, Ideale: "Torna, caro ideal... Torna... Torna".
Hi Jana
That is one of my favourite passages too.
Mario was very good at "endings"
Contrast this diminuendo ending of Ideale with the full throated glorious ending to Passione.
I was taught with live performances there are two important things the audience will
Remember..... How the performer made them "feel" and the last notes they heard.
Mario had the ability to provide this "in spades."
Jan
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Armando
Feb 22, 2008, 1:17:08 AM2/22/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Sam: As stunning as a full diminuendo can be such as Di Stefano's
high C in Salut Demeure, or Corelli's B flat in Celeste Aida, it still
boils down to vocal gymnastics.
Furthermore, it's not really as difficult as one might think. It means
maintaining full support while gradually decreasing the
volume.
I'm not suggesting a singer can just open his or her mouth and do it,
it takes a bit of working at. However, if someone with Corelli's vocal
heft could accomplish it so could Lanza who had a much more flexible
voice.
Nevertheless, there is a danger in overdoing the diminuendo caper as
it can result in permanently damaging the voice. A case in point is
the Spanish tenor Miguel Fleta who would show off his virtuosity at
every opportunity. After a mere five years Flteta's voice was already
showing signs of deterioration having become shaky and uneven. This
didn't stop an entire horde of Spanish tenors imitating Fleta with the
result that many beautiful voices ended up ruined.
high C in Salut Demeure, or Corelli's B flat in Celeste Aida, it still
boils down to vocal gymnastics.
Furthermore, it's not really as difficult as one might think. It means
maintaining full support while gradually decreasing the
volume.
I'm not suggesting a singer can just open his or her mouth and do it,
it takes a bit of working at. However, if someone with Corelli's vocal
heft could accomplish it so could Lanza who had a much more flexible
voice.
Nevertheless, there is a danger in overdoing the diminuendo caper as
it can result in permanently damaging the voice. A case in point is
the Spanish tenor Miguel Fleta who would show off his virtuosity at
every opportunity. After a mere five years Flteta's voice was already
showing signs of deterioration having become shaky and uneven. This
didn't stop an entire horde of Spanish tenors imitating Fleta with the
result that many beautiful voices ended up ruined.
Derek McGovern
Feb 22, 2008, 2:35:44 AM2/22/08
to mario...@googlegroups.com
Jana makes a good point above when she mentions her surprise that the
1949 renditions of Celeste Aida and Che Gelida Manina were recorded on
the same day. Here we have Lanza switching from the requisite darker
sound on the first aria to a more appropriately lyrical tone on the
second, as indeed Armando observes on pg. 93 of his book. Not only
does this underline what an intelligent singer Lanza was, but it also
speaks volumes about his vocal versatility.
1949 renditions of Celeste Aida and Che Gelida Manina were recorded on
the same day. Here we have Lanza switching from the requisite darker
sound on the first aria to a more appropriately lyrical tone on the
second, as indeed Armando observes on pg. 93 of his book. Not only
does this underline what an intelligent singer Lanza was, but it also
speaks volumes about his vocal versatility.
This is a man who could do virtually anything with his voice! He may
not have been interested in mastering certain vocal tricks,
but had he wanted to do so, then I'm sure Armando's correct in saying
that he would have acquired the means. The fact that Lanza never did a
diminuendo on "disciogliea dai veli", for example, on E Lucevan le
Stelle certainly shouldn't be held up as proof that he lacked a solid
technique. In fact, it has nothing to do with technique per se.
Anyone who doubts that Lanza had anything less than total control of
his voice should listen to his Song of India - and then try to imagine Corelli
or Del Monaco - or even Pavarotti - pulling it off!
Sam
Feb 22, 2008, 12:00:45 PM2/22/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Armando and Derek:
Thank you both for your in depth explanations. I take it, then, that
Mario never did a diminuendo because he simply did not practice doing
it or else didn't feel the need to learn how to do it. That is fine
with me because I wouldn't have wanted his voice wrecked over a
"trick" like that. I loved Fleta's early acoustical recordings and am
saddened to know he ruined his voice along with others who copied him!
On Feb 22, 2:35 am, "Derek McGovern" <derek.mcgov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jana makes a good point above when she mentions her surprise that the
> 1949 renditions of Celeste Aida and Che Gelida Manina were recorded on
> the same day. Here we have Lanza switching from the requisite darker
> sound on the first aria to a more appropriately lyrical tone on the
> second, as indeed Armando observes on pg. 93 of his book. Not only
> does this underline what an intelligent singer Lanza was, but it also
> speaks volumes about his vocal versatility.
>
> This is a man who could do virtually anything with his voice! He may
> not have been interested in mastering certain vocal tricks,
> but had he wanted to do so, then I'm sure Armando's correct in saying
> that he would have acquired the means. The fact that Lanza never did a
> diminuendo on "disciogliea dai veli", for example, on E Lucevan le
> Stelle certainly shouldn't be held up as proof that he lacked a solid
> technique. In fact, it has nothing to do with technique per se.
>
> Anyone who doubts that Lanza had anything less than total control of
> his voice should listen to his Song of India - and then try to imagine Corelli
> or Del Monaco - or even Pavarotti - pulling it off!
>
Thank you both for your in depth explanations. I take it, then, that
Mario never did a diminuendo because he simply did not practice doing
it or else didn't feel the need to learn how to do it. That is fine
with me because I wouldn't have wanted his voice wrecked over a
"trick" like that. I loved Fleta's early acoustical recordings and am
saddened to know he ruined his voice along with others who copied him!
On Feb 22, 2:35 am, "Derek McGovern" <derek.mcgov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jana makes a good point above when she mentions her surprise that the
> 1949 renditions of Celeste Aida and Che Gelida Manina were recorded on
> the same day. Here we have Lanza switching from the requisite darker
> sound on the first aria to a more appropriately lyrical tone on the
> second, as indeed Armando observes on pg. 93 of his book. Not only
> does this underline what an intelligent singer Lanza was, but it also
> speaks volumes about his vocal versatility.
>
> This is a man who could do virtually anything with his voice! He may
> not have been interested in mastering certain vocal tricks,
> but had he wanted to do so, then I'm sure Armando's correct in saying
> that he would have acquired the means. The fact that Lanza never did a
> diminuendo on "disciogliea dai veli", for example, on E Lucevan le
> Stelle certainly shouldn't be held up as proof that he lacked a solid
> technique. In fact, it has nothing to do with technique per se.
>
> Anyone who doubts that Lanza had anything less than total control of
> his voice should listen to his Song of India - and then try to imagine Corelli
> or Del Monaco - or even Pavarotti - pulling it off!
>
> On 2/21/08, Jan Hodges <jmhod...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Jana wrote <No matter if interpreting the song consisted of going
> > To mezza voice, or whatever--think of the ending of one of my
> > Favourites, Ideale: "Torna, caro ideal... Torna... Torna".
> > Hi Jana
> > That is one of my favourite passages too.
> > Mario was very good at "endings"
> > Contrast this diminuendo ending of Ideale with the full throated glorious
> > ending to Passione.
> > I was taught with live performances there are two important things the
> > audience will
> > Remember..... How the performer made them "feel" and the last notes they
> > heard.
> > Mario had the ability to provide this "in spades."
> > Jan- Hide quoted text -
>
>
>
> > Jana wrote <No matter if interpreting the song consisted of going
> > To mezza voice, or whatever--think of the ending of one of my
> > Favourites, Ideale: "Torna, caro ideal... Torna... Torna".
> > Hi Jana
> > That is one of my favourite passages too.
> > Mario was very good at "endings"
> > Contrast this diminuendo ending of Ideale with the full throated glorious
> > ending to Passione.
> > I was taught with live performances there are two important things the
> > audience will
> > Remember..... How the performer made them "feel" and the last notes they
> > heard.
> > Mario had the ability to provide this "in spades."
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