Di Stefano's Neapolitan song renditions vis-à-vis Lanza's

[Derek McGovern]

I've been listening to a lot of Di Stefano recently -- in particular,
a wonderful collection of 21 Neapolitan songs that he recorded between
1953 and 1957. This is the 1997 Testament/EMI release Giuseppe Di
Stefano Sings Neapolitan Songs, and it shouldn't be confused with
similarly titled CDs of post-1957 recordings (many of which are
vocally pretty dire, as I understand).

Although these recordings coincide with the beginning of Pippo's vocal
decline (and it's true that one is almost always aware here of his
problematic upper register) there is still much to enjoy on this disc.
The beauty of his voice and of his phrasing more than compensate for
the metallic harshness of some (but not all) of his high notes, and
nothing can diminish the wonderful storytelling that typifies Di
Stefano's singing here. Among the many highlights are renditions of
songs that I wish Lanza had recorded: Silenzio Cantatore, Chiove
(quite a refreshingly off-beat song this one, melodically speaking,
and with a haunting delivery of "Gesu', ma come chiove" -- "Jesus, but
how it's raining"" -- from Pippo), 'O Paese d' 'o Sole, and Piscatore
'e Pusilecco.

Interestingly, Di Stefano sings seven of the songs featured on Lanza's
"Mario!" album, plus the inevitable O Sole Mio, Marechiare, Torna a
Surriento, etc. Some time back, we briefly discussed the two men's
respective versions of Fenesta Che Lucive, and, as I recall the
thread, most of us gave the edge to Lanza's rendition. But when it
comes to Santa Lucia Luntana, I'd have to acknowledge that, much as I
love Mario's memorably reflective 1958 version, Pippo sings the
superior rendition:

http://www.4shared.com/file/60990211/d0126df2/11_-_Track_11.html

And here's Lanza's version for a quick comparison:

http://www.4shared.com/file/60990755/b5d8ae04/Santa_Lucia_Luntana.html

Of course, not only are the two voices completely different (as Mario
himself acknowledged to Licia Albanese, referring to Pippo's "light,
velvety" timbre), but the arrangements and even the keys are
dissimilar. This makes for two quite diverse listening experiences:
Lanza's restrained, contemplative rendition sung in a baritonal
"honey-dipped" middle register (to quote our resident wordsmith Mike
McAdam :-)), and Di Stefano's much more lyrical approach, capped by
his exceptional mezza voce.

When I have a free moment, I'll post about some of the other
renditions of Neapolitan songs that both men recorded; in the
meantime, I'd be interested in reading your reactions to the above.

[Lover of Grand Voices]

Di Stefano had a beautiful, classical tenor voice and like so many,
attempted to sing Neapolitan songs with the same flare and flavor of a
typical lyrical tenor. His renditions are beautiful but, like the
vast majority of tenors who crossover into popular songs, he missed
the two essential elements of mastering Neopolitan music and lyrics.
The first is the language and the second is the poetry of the words.

I grew up speaking Neopolitan before learning Italian and English. It
is truly a different language and has special pronunciations and
nuances that make songs in Neopolitan hard to articulate for a non-
Neopolitan. You can hear the Sicilian in Di Stefano's renditions.
You can hear the northern Italian in Pavorotti's work and that of
nearly all the others. Caruso, of course, was from Naples and his
songs soar above the others because he captured the language. Lanza
was truly remarkable in this regard. His parents were from Abruzzi
and Molise and he grew up hearing a speaking differnent dialects from
Neopolitan. It must have been challenging for him to produce the
nearly perfect intonation and pronunciation of Neapolitan that makes
his works extraordinary. Mario also mastered the magical poetry of
the songs and combined the emotion of the words, the music and the
language which make his performances remarkable. I have let my
Neapolitan friends hear him and they insist that he must be from
Naples because of the clarity and perfection achieved. I cannot think
of another tenor who has performed with the classic style and
excellence that only those from Naples have in relation to their songs
which rise from the heart, the voice and the soul. Only Lanza and we
are fortunate that he sang as many as he did.

[Michele]

To Emilio & Derek,
Strangely, I have today listened to both of Mario's L.P. "Mario" and
"M.L. Sings Caruso Favourties". For comparison I listened to Pippo
singing just 3 of the same songs. As you say Emilio while Di Stefano
had a beautiful voice, there something missing in his singing over
which, in my opinion he had no control. There is absolutely no
comparison between the two voices. The 2 record set I have, I bought
for the aria from Gianni Schicchi which he sings like no other I've
heard.
On closer examination I discovered 2 only Neapolitan songs namely
'Fenesta che lucive' and Voce 'e notte' which I had just heard Mario
sing and quite frankly they (Pippo's) sounded like completely
different songs. To my ear, and I do not
speak Italian, the difference is the quality of voice, the warmth,
roundness and the diction of Mario that make the difference. I was
appalled when I played Di Stefano's 'Nessun dorma" which I enjoyed
until the penultimate note which was incredibly flat.
Reminded me of Mario's 'Serenade' from the Student Prince in which his
2nd last note is flat as pan cakes and after such
beautiful singing up to that point I cannot understand why he did not
go back and sing it again. With regards to Mario, his Father came from
the Southern part of Italy and so did his Mother, so he probably grew
up speaking a dialect which made it easier for him. I believe that
when he recorded these songs the members of the orchestra and Franco
Ferrara were amazed at his linguistic skills.
Derek, you are dead right Mario's "Passonione" is quite wonderful and
the final note does cause the hairs on the back of one's neck to stand
up.
Regards Michele

[Derek McGovern]

On Aug 30, 10:04 pm, Lover of Grand Voices <efiod...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I grew up speaking Neopolitan before learning Italian and English.  It
> is truly a different language and has special pronunciations and
> nuances that make songs in Neopolitan hard to articulate for a non-
> Neopolitan.  You can hear the Sicilian in Di Stefano's renditions.
> You can hear the northern Italian in Pavorotti's work and that of
> nearly all the others.  Caruso, of course, was from Naples and his
> songs soar above the others because he captured the language.  Lanza
> was truly remarkable in this regard.  His parents were from Abruzzi
> and Molise and he grew up hearing a speaking differnent dialects from
> Neopolitan.  It must have been challenging for him to produce the
> nearly perfect intonation and pronunciation of Neapolitan that makes
> his works extraordinary.  

Ciao Emilio: Thanks for this most interesting post. (I had no idea
that you'd grown up speaking Neapolitan!) Yes, it's certainly been
said that not even Di Stefano's Neapolitan pronunciation is perfect at
times, though I do feel that, like Lanza, he captures the essence of
many of these songs. Caruso, on the other hand, although authentically
Neapolitan linguistically speaking, doesn't move me in the same way.

As a speaker of Neapolitan, perhaps you can clear up something that's
always intrigued me. On the line "N’anema pare rassegnata e stanca" in
De Curtis' Tu Ca Nun Chiagne, should "rassegnata" in fact be
"rassignata" -- or are both possible? I've seen it spelled both ways,
and adding to the confusion, Lanza sings "rassegnata" on his 1958
version and "rassignata" on his 1952 Coke recording. Di Stefano also
pronounces it as "rassignata". A minor point, of course, but something
that I am curious about it.

[Derek McGovern]

Hi Michele: I think the Nessun Dorma you're referring to comes from
1955 or 1956, and by that stage Di Stefano was certainly having
trouble with his upper register. But I do love his recording of the
Gianni Schicchi aria (Firenze è come un albero fiorito) from the same
period. It's a joyous piece of singing. As for high notes, Di Stefano
certainly had a C earlier in his career, as his celebrated 1950
performance of Salut Demeure from Faust revealed. It's just a shame
that his vocal prime lasted such a short time. He never lost his
onstage charisma, though, from all accounts, even when the voice was
essentially gone. Armando can attest to this, as he knew Di Stefano
very well, and attended many of his concerts in Australia from (I
think) the 1960s onwards.

I'm glad you brought up Di Stefano's Voce 'e Notte. To me, he sings it
extremely well, but the overall impact of the song is marred by the
arrangement. (A lot of Di Stefano's Neapolitan recordings from this
period are marred by crashing cymbals and the like -- in stark
contrast to the sensitive arrangements of Ennio Morricone and Carlo
Savina on Lanza's "Mario!" album.) However, Lanza definitely owns this
song, for no one else has ever surrended himself so utterly to its
story as he does.

Here's a link to Di Stefano's Voce 'e Notte:

http://www.4shared.com/file/61108338/18ba1ea4/16_-_Track_16.html

Cheers
Derek

[Jan Hodges]

I thought Di Stefano's Santa Lucia Luntana was exquisite. I loved the ending. Such beautiful pianissimo singing. I think you are correct Derek. He shades Mario on this one but Mario definitely has the upper hand with Passione. I  think the thrilling last note is one of his best...sustained so beautifully with an evenness of tonal quality right until the end. Jan

[Derek McGovern]

Hi Jan: Glad you enjoyed Di Stefano's Santa Lucia Luntana.
Incidentally, as I think I've mentioned on this forum before, Carreras
attempts a virtual copy of Pippo's rendition on his 1980 Neapolitan
disc -- right down to duplicating the ending. Di Stefano's version
remains my favourite, though.

Among the other Neapolitan songs that both Mario and Giuseppe
recorded, I prefer Di Stefano's various early versions of Core n'grato
to Lanza's two renditions (though the best version I've ever heard is
that of Carreras at his 1980 New York concert), and I feel that
Pippo's Senza Nisciuno rivals Mario's 1959 version. If anyone's
interested, I can post a link for Di Stefano's recording of the
latter. It's more poetic than Lanza's dramatic, heart-wrenching
rendition, but to me both approaches are equally valid. And while Di
Stefano's voice lacks Mario's ring on the high notes, he sounds in
good vocal nick here (for 1956).

It's a different story, though, on Dicitencello Vuie, however, which
was recorded at the same time as Senza Nisciuno. Here, he's more
passionate than Lanza is on his 1958 version, but is clearly pushing
his voice to its absolute limit.
Among the other selections that both men recorded, I prefer Lanza's
Torna a Surriento (1955 Serenade rendition), Tu Ca Nun Chiagne, and
Maria Mari', plus, of course, his Voce 'e Notte and Fenesta Che
Lucive. Incidentally, Jan, I've never heard Di Stefano's Passione. Is
it one of his later (post-1957) recordings?

On Aug 31, 1:15 pm, "Jan Hodges" <jmhod...@netspace.net.au> wrote:
> I thought Di Stefano's Santa Lucia Luntana was exquisite. I loved the ending

>  Such beautiful pianissimo singing.
> I think you are correct Derek. He shades Mario on this one but Mario
> definitely has the upper hand with Passione.
> I  think the thrilling last note is one of his best...sustained so
> beautifully with an evenness of tonal quality right until the end.
> Jan
>

>  faint_grain.jpg
> 1KViewDownload

[Jan Hodges]

Derek wrote<

Among the other Neapolitan songs that both Mario and Giuseppe

Recorded, I prefer Di Stefano's various early versions of Core n'grato To Lanza's two renditions (though the best version I've ever heard is That of Carreras at his 1980 New York concert), and I feel that

Pippo's Senza Nisciuno rivals Mario's 1959 version. If anyone's

Interested, I can post a link for Di Stefano's recording of the Latter. It's more poetic than Lanza's dramatic, heart-wrenching Rendition, but to me both approaches are equally valid. And while Di

Stefano's voice lacks Mario's ring on the high notes, he sounds in

Good vocal nick here (for 1956).> Yes please I would like to hear Pippo's version of Senza Nisciuno. I particularly like this Neapolitan song. Jan

[Derek McGovern]

On Aug 31, 3:46 pm, "Jan Hodges" <jmhod...@netspace.net.au> wrote:

> Yes please I would like to hear Pippo's version of Senza Nisciuno.
> I particularly like this Neapolitan song.
> Jan

Here you go, Jan:

http://www.4shared.com/file/61158342/7fceee0d/19_-_Senza_Nisciuno.html

[Lover of Grand Voices]

Dear Derek: The pronunciation does matter in Neapolitan because the
words are designed to roll around the mouth and are richer in vocality
and often times have deeper meaning than Italian. The word in this
case should be "rassegenata" which is the Neapolitan was of saying
"rassignata," from the Italian. The meanings are the same but
different in that the Neapolitan also evokes a special sadness and
pathos as well as resignation. Mario captures this as very few others
do. (Believe me it is very difficult to sing successfully in
Neapolitan. I suggest our friends on this site try it and inform us
of their experience. A native Neapolitan friend of mine in Washington
DC tutored a Japanese man who wanted to master singing Neapolitan
songs. It took him one year to sing O Sole Mio and I will not comment
on how it sounded despite tremendous effort on the part of this fan of
songs from Naples.)

While it is true that Lanza's parents were from the South of Italy, he
was not a native speaker of any of the dialects, unless I am
mistaken. DiStefano had the advantage of living in the South plus
hearing the southern sounds in many forms and tones. What Lanza
accomplished is truly remarkable for either an Italian or the son of
an immigrant who did not grow up speaking any form of the language.
Neapolitan is certainly another language which is why Italian tv often
provides subtitles for singers who perform in Neapolitan.

Lanza would set his place in the history of music just for these
performances which I wish would be recognized by more of those who
love classical Neapolitan singing. Saluti from Italy, Emilio

[Lover of Grand Voices]

Dear Derek and our friends and lovers of Mario: I think we are
overlooking a masterpiece that I am sure we will argue about
considerably. The first time I heard the very young Mario sing Core
Ingrato I was stunned by the way he approached the second rendition of
the words "core, core, ingrato" where he adds a special tearful sigh
in this part of the song that I find remarkable. No one has sung it in
this manner that I recall. I am not sure if this was the Hollywood
Bowl recording or from his radio program.

Mario approaches it like a kantor supplying a prayer-like sense of
tearfulness and a cry of sadness, frustration and anger. Please
listen to this and take it from a positive point of view. Neapolitans
adore Mario's version because it captures something unique. Most
singers deal with this part of the song flatly and almost matter of
factly but Lanza takes it into his soul and brings it forward.
Believe me this is no easy task with this particular song that borders
on an aria. It is very difficult to sing properly and to create
anything original in a song that has been song by hundreds of artists
who are native speakers of Neapolitan yet Lanza creates something new
and special and those of us with this music in our DNA can feel it. I
hope you can as well. Please listen to it several times and let me
know. Regards from Rome, Emilio

[Derek McGovern]

Thanks for that clarification re "rassegnata", Emilio. I'd always
assumed that Mario's pronunciation was correct on his later version,
but it was just the fact that Di Stefano's was different that made me
wonder. In any event, Pippo, for all the fact that he was born in
Catania, Sicily, apparently moved to Milan with his family when he was
six.

You may be interested in this recent post on Opera-L regarding
Neapolitan pronunciation. Lanza is given favorable mention:

http://listserv.bccls.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0808A&L=OPERA-L&T=0&F=&S=&P=24016

I completely agree that the "Mario!" album deserves greater critical
recognition. Where, for example, are the reviews of the 2006 SACD
release of this disc in magazines such as Fanfare and Gramophone?!!
They're nowhere to be seen.

If I had my way, the best of Lanza's other Neapolitan renditions (eg,
Mamma Ma, Che Vo' Sape? (RCA, 1949), 'A Vucchella (RCA, 1951), Torna a
Surriento (Serenade, 1955), O Sole Mio (FTFT, 1958), and Senza
Nisciuno (RCA, 1959) would join the album on a single CD dedicated
exclusively to Lanza's mastery of these wonderful songs.

[Derek McGovern]

On Aug 31, 9:34 pm, Lover of Grand Voices <efiod...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Dear Derek and our friends and lovers of Mario:  I think we are
> overlooking a masterpiece that I am sure we will argue about
> considerably.  The first time I heard the very young Mario sing Core
> Ingrato I was stunned by the way he approached the second rendition of
> the words "core, core, ingrato" where he adds a special tearful sigh
> in this part of the song that I find remarkable. No one has sung it in
> this manner that I recall.  I am not sure if this was the Hollywood
> Bowl recording or from his radio program.
>
> Mario approaches it like a kantor supplying a prayer-like sense of
> tearfulness and a cry of sadness, frustration and anger.  Please
> listen to this and take it from a positive point of view.  

Emilio: If it's Lanza's Coke (radio) version of Core n'grato that
you're referring to (where he does that outrageous leap on the reprise
of the second "core"), I'm afraid we're going to have to disagree on
this one. While it's certainly unique (!), and would stun the living
daylights out of an audience in a live performance, Mario is simply
too over the top for my taste here. I much prefer his 1949 RCA
version, on which he's passionate without overdoing the histrionics,
and he has a much more even line in places.

But if you missed it the first time round, do have a listen to
Carreras' magnificent 1980 version:

http://www.4shared.com/file/47132704/34c00163/Core_ngrato.html

Regards
Derek

[Vince Di Placido]

Ciao, Emilio! I also like Mario's "Primal scream" on his RCA Core
'ngrato. As Derek says it is just not right at all on his Coke
version.

> >http://www.4shared.com/file/61158342/7fceee0d/19_-_Senza_Nisciuno.html- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Derek McGovern]

On Sep 1, 3:52 am, Vince Di Placido <vincent.diplac...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Ciao, Emilio! I also like Mario's "Primal scream" on his RCA Core
> 'ngrato. As Derek says it is just not right at all on his Coke
> version.

Hi Vince: I don't hear a "primal scream" on the 1949 Core n'grato, but
I *do* hear one on the Coke version that I think Emilio is referring
to here. On the 1949 rendition, Mario simply goes sharp on the second
"Core" of the reprise. He's passionate without being hysterical.

[Armando]

On Aug 31, 7:18 pm, Lover of Grand Voices <efiod...@yahoo.com> wrote:

The word in this case should be "rassegenata" which is the Neapolitan
was of saying
"rassignata," from the Italian.

Emilio: Regarding the word rassegnata versus rassignata in the song
Tu Ca Nun Chiagne, surely you meant to say it the other way around as
rassignata is Neapolitan whereas rassegnata is Italian.

[Armando]

On Aug 30, 10:08 pm, Michele <dhans...@bigpond.com> wrote:

Reminded me of Mario's 'Serenade' from the Student Prince in which his

2nd last note is flat as pan cakes.

Michele: I am rather puzzled by your statement that Mario is flat as
pan cakes in the 2nd last note of the Serenade from The Student
Prince.
Lanza sings the word *ever* which starts on A flat and changes to G
exactly as written in the score and finishes on B flat on the
word*more*.

[Muriel]

I haven't had a chance to check out all the links yet, but thanks,
Derek, for taking the time to provide them.

Perhaps Michele was listening to the 1959 Serenade or one of the songs
from the Serenade film? Mario's Serenade from the soundtrack of
Student Prince is one of the loveliest songs I've ever heard. Its
effect on me is truly mesmerizing. I can forget all the cares of the
world in those few minutes. Thanks to Armando for identifying the
notes. I'd love to own a pitch pipe as I'm always guessing!!

[Lover of Grand Voices]

Vince and Derek, I bow low when it comes to my musical ability and
understanding vs yours. You are far, far ahead of me. I am a simple
amateur who has spent a lifetime listening to tenors of all classes
and just know what I like and what I do not.

I believe that beauty, sound and emotion are in the beholder and my
poor taste begs me to differ with your thoughts on this rendition of
Core Ingrato. What I hear from Mario is not a scream but a cry that
describes the emotion that springs from a lover humiliated, filled
with anger and passion and an artist who is trying to convey it to his
audience. I am listening to the selection now as I write you and am
more convinced than ever with my opinion which is uneducated but based
on what lifts me.

Isn't it amazing that Mario's work can create different views and
feelings in those who appreciate him and his legacy. My thanks and
compliments to you both and all our friends who are managing and
participating in this site which is educational and rewarding. This
is another gift that Lanza left us which he never could imagine.

Warmest regards and best wishes, Emilio

[Lover of Grand Voices]

Armando, thank you for correcting me. Yes, I did mean it the other
way around. I was just re-checking the lyrics of "Tu ca nu Chiange,"
and this is very clear. Grazie tanto. Saluti, Emilio

Comm'è bella 'a muntagna stanotte
bella accussí, nun ll'aggio vista maje!
N'ánema pare, rassignata e stanca,
sotta cuperta 'e chesta luna janca
Tu ca nun chiagne e chiágnere mme faje,
tu, stanotte, addó staje?
Voglio a te!
Voglio a te!
Chist'uocchie te vonno,
n'ata vota, vedé!

Comm'è calma 'a muntagna stanotte
cchiù calma 'e mo, nun ll'aggio vista maje!
E tutto dorme, tutto dorme o more,
e i' sulo veglio, pecché veglia Ammore

Tu ca nun chiagne e chiágnere mme faje,
tu, stanotte, addó staje?
Voglio a te!
Voglio a te! Chist'uocchie te vonno,
n'ata vota, vedé

[Derek McGovern]

I've just been listening to quite a few Di Stefano renditions of Neapolitan
songs (inspired by a couple of posts that Vince wrote recently, both here
and on the Rense forum). Earlier in this thread, we compared Lanza's 1959
version of Senza Nisciuno with Di Stefano's, and I still feel that they're
both terrific renditions:

http://www.4shared.com/file/61158342/7fceee0d/19_-_Senza_Nisciuno.html (Di
Stefano)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x676kaVs80 (Lanza)

I also listened to Corelli's version, and actually found myself quite
enjoying it. (You know I'm not a Corelli fan!) He's in ringing voice here,
and I think the song suits that uniquely sorrowful (mournful?) timbre of
his:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssi0w7jWt3A&feature=related

Anyone else agree?

But getting back to Pippo, do check out his Chiove (which I mentioned in the
first post) if you've never heard it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdUZVR5_xpY

And while you're at it, check out another tenor's version of this memorable song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lemyB6U-0J8

This guy knows how to tell a story!

 

[Vince Di Placido]

I would have loved to have heard Mario sing "Chiove" it's such a
beautiful song... I was so disapointed Derek, I clicked on that last
link expecting something special :-) No joke, I was actually...
I prefer Mario's "Santa Lucia Luntana" to Pippo's, I adore Di Stefano
as you know but I find his performance lacking Mario's haunting
melancholy & the "Mario!" orchestration is just heaven! Actually I was
just listening there again & that "hook" in the "Mario!" Santa Lucia
intro always reminded me of something & it just came to me, it's so
similar to the melody that the piano plays at the end of "Di Rigori
Armato"... or am I going insane!?

[Tonytenor]

Hey folks! Jan and Derek, I guess I am going to have to be the odd
man out here. I just don't think anyone - at least not any recording
by anyone I have heard up to this point - can even come close to
Mario's "Santa Lucia luntana." I love Di Stefano's voice and his
rendition of this song is indeed lovely, perhaps too lovely. There
are times, when listening to it, that I cannot escape the possible
fact that he is not just singing but vocalizing. Yes he could sing
beautifully, but are there not times when the singer must also become
just as much the storyteller? This does not mean that the he
shouldn't tell the tale in a a beautiful voice, but perhaps it is a
balancing act and the true success is measured by the careful and fine
blending of the two. DiStefano's version is the most often heard, the
usual, arrangement of the song, Mario's (from the "Mario!" album) is
not. I do not was to totally dismiss Lanza's first attempt at this
piece (a Coke recording) but I find it quite two dimensional and the
singer a youthful, energetic vocalist ready, at any opportunity, to
show off the voice. In other words, I've not a great deal that I can
say about Lanza's first recording of "Santa Lucia luntana" as it was
handicaped in a number of ways from the very beginning. Mario's
second recording though, now this is (to quote a line from "The Wizard
Of Oz") a horse of a different color. I am unaware of any arrangement
quite like this and from it opening chords you feel the movement of
the water - but ever so slightly. It increases, almost unnoticably
and then Mario comes in. He's sailed many times; you can hear the
salt air in his voice and the trace of weariness that hangs like a
mist or fog over the story he is telling and the stories he is
remembering. No, it's not Bel Canto singing, but this song does not
call for Bel Canto. This lovely sweet, sad, reflective song of
rememberance needs to be told from the heart, from the soul and
sometimes what the heart and soul has human emotion and not schooled,
two dimensional perfection. Mario brings all this and more to this
piece. Listen to the way he sings the final lines. It fades away ,
just as a ship would sail out of a harbour. Not with fanfair, but
with subltle and dimming softness. That is what I visualize each time
I hear Mario sing the final lines. I see the ship against the sunset
sailing away, getting smaller and smaller.

No, I am sorry Pippo does not transport me there, Mario does - and
ever time.

Ciao,

Tony

On Sep 3, 12:15 pm, Vince Di Placido <vincent.diplac...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Tonytenor]

Vince,

Brother, we are on the same wave length when it comes to Mario's
"Santa Lucia luntana."
Hauntingly beautiful. No other rendition compares, IMO.

Ciao, Tony

On Sep 3, 12:15 pm, Vince Di Placido <vincent.diplac...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Derek McGovern]

There's just no getting away from Lanza's 1958 Santa Lucia Luntana
this week! Only a couple of days ago on another forum, I was labeled
"a musical moron" for preferring Mario's later version to his Coke
rendition (the one on the recent "Serenade: A Mario Lanza Songbook"
CD).

It was interesting reading back through the posts on this thread from
two years ago. Yes, I still love Di Stefano's version of Santa Lucia
Luntana (how could I not? It's just exquisite), but here's the proof
of the pudding: I've only listened to it a couple of times since 2008,
while I've regularly returned to Mario's version.

Vince: You're not insane: there *is* a similarity between the melody
at the very end of Di Rigori Armato and the beginning of the 1958
Santa Lucia Luntana. Well spotted!! And, yes, I agree, it's one heck
of a "hook" on the latter. It draws me in every time.

Tony: I thought your analysis of the 1958 recording was bang on. I
especially liked this part:

"I am unaware of any arrangement quite like this and from it opening
chords you feel the movement of the water - but ever so slightly. It

increases, almost unnoticeably and then Mario comes in. He's sailed

many times; you can hear the salt air in his voice and the trace of
weariness that hangs like a mist or fog over the story he is telling
and the stories he is remembering. No, it's not Bel Canto singing,
but this song does not call for Bel Canto."

"Salt air in his voice" -- I love it! Yes, he's a master storyteller
here.

Cheers
Derek

[Derek McGovern]

Here's the link again to Lanza's 1958 Santa Lucia Luntana (I think the one posted earlier is broken):

http://www.4shared.com/account/audio/k6JaHsMM/Santa_Lucia_Luntana_--_origina.html

This is the original stereo LP pressing, and I still think it's the best reproduction I've heard of Mario's voice on this recording. The orchestra doesn't figure nearly as prominently here as it does on the SACD version (Mario's right upfront on this mix), but the richness and warmth of Lanza's "honey-dipped" middle register, as Mike McAdam so memorably put it, is really quite something.

[leeann]

I have visited this thread many times with great appreciation.

Somehow, the rather esoteric Core 'Ngrato was one of the first Lanza
songs I heard maybe two years ago, at best. Likely a fluke of YouTube
searches. I have no idea which version I first heard. I had little
idea of the meaning of the lyrics. I certainly didn't think about
whether Lanza adhered to the intent of the score and composers. None
of that mattered. It still doesn't.

It left me breathless. I KNEW what he was singing about. It's raw.

It is on my desert island list. (1949 rendition)

Since then, I have listened to Caruso, Corelli, di Stefano, Domingo--
yes, the gamut of YouTube (and beyond) postings.

I think Corelli "gets it," and it's one of the few Corelli pieces that
resonate with me, but his rendition is perhaps too stylized. the
dramatic interpretation, too studied, at least this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WznTkZmBi8A

di Stefano? Quite honestly, the impact is closely on par with Lanza.
Musically beautiful, just beautiful. Interpretively, passionate, yet
nuanced. To my ears, though, that passion and nuance battle a bit with
technique. I would've liked to have heard Lanza sing
this song from the perspective of the blending of technique and
interpretive mastery that he brought to the later Mario! and Caruso
Favorites album.

One di Stefano version is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PR4UcVwqu0&feature=related

This is a heart imploring, reminding. This is a heart bared. But in
the end, it is an internal monologue of anguish as much as an outer-
directed declaration. Lanza, I think, nails the desperation of that
anguish on the controversial leap to "core 'ngrato." And his slight
modulation on "tutt'e passato e nun'nce pienze chiu" is a moment of
self-awareness as much as an outer-directed reproach. (I don't have
the vocabulary to describe the musical chiarascuro of Lanza's
interpretive modes.)

This remains one of my favorites. Quite Lanzerian. Best, Lee Ann

[Derek McGovern]

Hi Lee Ann: I've just been listening to that 1973 Corelli version of
Core 'Ngrato you posted. You certainly weren't kidding when you wrote
that it was "studied"!

I had to smile at the number of liberties Corelli takes with the music
here, doing unfortunate things to the structure of the song as he
dragged out certain words. Pretty self-indulgent singing! :-) I also
feel he emphasizes the wrong words at times. Poor Corelli: I know I'm
almost always tough on him, but even his upper register (his best
vocal feature to my ears) isn't up to his usual standard here. I
missed the customary ring in his voice, and I didn't care for his
timbre at all. The audience certainly loved him, though!

Di Stefano's a very different kettle of fish. While the sound
quality's pretty bad on this live recording, the beauty of his voice
and the poetry of his singing shine through. I know what you mean
about "passion and nuance battl[ing] a bit with technique" in his
case, but I still feel he outshines Lanza on this song. Mario has the
superior technique on his 1949 version, and he certainly doesn't lack
for passion (!), but it's the poetry I miss on his recording. I blame
the bombastic arrangement!

Actually, it's a great shame Mario didn't sing Core 'Ngrato -- say,
just with piano -- in Serenade. Just listen to what he does with Torna
a Surriento in that film. Talk about light and shade!

Cheers
Derek

[Barnabas Nemeth]

Hello Derek,

I fully agree with you on Corelli's Core t. He has always been artificial in every manner incl. this song. Perhaps the Il Trovatore was suiting to his style.

Di Stefano has been one of my favorites except his high notes, but even though Mario's Core 'Ngrato is more dramatic for me causing goose bumps that counts.

Regards,

Barnabas 

[Derek McGovern]

Hi Barnabas

Oh, I agree that Corelli sounds much better as Manrico in Il Trovatore
(or in any other spinto role) than he does in songs!

High notes after the early 1950s were always problematic for Di
Stefano, but the poetry the man brought to his singing was really
something very special indeed. While I still prefer his Core 'ngrato
to Mario's -- and, even more so, Carreras' terrific 1980 live
rendition: http://www.4shared.com/file/47132704/34c00163/Core_ngrato.html)
-- the 1949 Lanza version is certainly goosebump-inducing! But I would
have loved to hear Mario sing it with a less bombastic arrangement and
a slower tempo.

Cheers
Derek

On Sep 20, 3:47 pm, Barnabas Nemeth <barnabasneme...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Derek,
> I fully agree with you on Corelli's Core t. He has always been artificial in
> every manner incl. this song. Perhaps the Il Trovatore was suiting to his
> style.
> Di Stefano has been one of my favorites except his high notes, but even
> though Mario's Core 'Ngrato is more dramatic for me causing goose bumps
> that counts.
> Regards,
> Barnabas
>
> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Derek McGovern

> <derek.mcgov...@gmail.com>wrote: