What Is A Lirico Spinto Tenor?
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Sam
Mar 8, 2014, 12:42:58 AM3/8/14
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Can someone clear this up for me? I always assumed a lirico spinto was
a tenor with a darker quality or timbre than a lyric tenor has. But a
friend who reads Grandi-Tenori just pointed out someone saying that
spinto means "forced" and that the way a spinto gets his sound is by
pushing out the air with much pressure (and resulting volume). This
goes against what I have always believed and I hope some light can be
shed on this issue. I know that Mario is a lyrico spinto and therefore
this is my favorite tenor sound, even preferable to a dramatic tenor
who may be too deep like Del Monaco.
a tenor with a darker quality or timbre than a lyric tenor has. But a
friend who reads Grandi-Tenori just pointed out someone saying that
spinto means "forced" and that the way a spinto gets his sound is by
pushing out the air with much pressure (and resulting volume). This
goes against what I have always believed and I hope some light can be
shed on this issue. I know that Mario is a lyrico spinto and therefore
this is my favorite tenor sound, even preferable to a dramatic tenor
who may be too deep like Del Monaco.
Message has been deleted
Derek McGovern
Mar 8, 2014, 12:43:19 AM3/8/14
to
Hi Sam:
There seems to be some confusion among opera lovers as to what these
various terms mean, and I see that on Wikipedia it's claimed that
"lirico spinto" and "spinto" are one and the same. As I understand it,
they're not: a "lirico spinto tenor" refers to a voice that is
versatile enough to sing both lyric roles (eg, Alfredo in La Traviata)
-- where a lighter sound is required -- and those requiring a darker,
more powerful sound (eg, Manrico in Il Trovatore); in other words,
spinto roles. A *purely* spinto tenor would sound ideal as, say, Canio
in Pagliacci, but would not have the right sound for lyric parts. A
dramatic tenor has an even darker, weightier, more baritonal sound
than that of a spinto tenor, and is ideally suited to roles such as
Otello. Spinto tenors (and even the occasional lirico spinto),
however, can also sound convincing as Otello -- and this was certainly
true of Lanza. (He was essentially a lirico spinto tenor, by the way
-- at least up until 1958, by which time he was starting to sound, on
occasion, more spinto than lirico spinto.)
"Spinto" means "pushed" in Italian, and, as I understand it, the word
is used to denote the ability of those voices that have sufficient
heft to "cut through" denser orchestration than a lyric tenor would be
capable of handling. But I'm no singer, and Armando may want to
elaborate on all of this!
There seems to be some confusion among opera lovers as to what these
various terms mean, and I see that on Wikipedia it's claimed that
"lirico spinto" and "spinto" are one and the same. As I understand it,
they're not: a "lirico spinto tenor" refers to a voice that is
versatile enough to sing both lyric roles (eg, Alfredo in La Traviata)
-- where a lighter sound is required -- and those requiring a darker,
more powerful sound (eg, Manrico in Il Trovatore); in other words,
spinto roles. A *purely* spinto tenor would sound ideal as, say, Canio
in Pagliacci, but would not have the right sound for lyric parts. A
dramatic tenor has an even darker, weightier, more baritonal sound
than that of a spinto tenor, and is ideally suited to roles such as
Otello. Spinto tenors (and even the occasional lirico spinto),
however, can also sound convincing as Otello -- and this was certainly
true of Lanza. (He was essentially a lirico spinto tenor, by the way
-- at least up until 1958, by which time he was starting to sound, on
occasion, more spinto than lirico spinto.)
"Spinto" means "pushed" in Italian, and, as I understand it, the word
is used to denote the ability of those voices that have sufficient
heft to "cut through" denser orchestration than a lyric tenor would be
capable of handling. But I'm no singer, and Armando may want to
elaborate on all of this!
Armando
Oct 30, 2008, 5:25:24 PM10/30/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Derek: There’s no need for me to elaborate as you have given a
perfectly accurate description of what the terms lirico spinto and
spinto mean. Bravo!
On Oct 31, 7:42 am, Derek McGovern <derek.mcgov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam wrote:
> > Can someone clear this up for me? I always assumed a lyrico spinto was
>
> Sam: Firstly, it's actually "lirico spinto", not "lyrico spinto" :-)
perfectly accurate description of what the terms lirico spinto and
spinto mean. Bravo!
On Oct 31, 7:42 am, Derek McGovern <derek.mcgov...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sam wrote:
> > Can someone clear this up for me? I always assumed a lyrico spinto was
> > a tenor with a darker quality or timbre than a lyric tenor has. But a
> > friend who reads Grandi-Tenori just pointed out someonne saying that
> > spinto means "forced" and that the way a spinto gets his sound is by
> > pushing out the air with much pressure (and resulting volume). This
> > goes against what I have always believed and I hope some light can be
> > shed on this issue. I know that Mario is a lyrico spinto and therefore
> > this is my favorite tenor sound, even preferable to a dramatic tenor
> > who may be too deep like Del Monacco.
> > pushing out the air with much pressure (and resulting volume). This
> > goes against what I have always believed and I hope some light can be
> > shed on this issue. I know that Mario is a lyrico spinto and therefore
> > this is my favorite tenor sound, even preferable to a dramatic tenor
>
> Sam: Firstly, it's actually "lirico spinto", not "lyrico spinto" :-)
andrew...@gmail.com
Mar 8, 2014, 12:43:50 AM3/8/14
to
The classification of tenor voices seems a very complex and controversial issue. Surely a voice should never be "forced" this seems an unhelpful word to use when it comes to vocal technique as does "pushed" and can get singers in all sorts of trouble. It seems to me, from my studies thus far, that the classification rather depends on the relative mix of head and chest register in the vocal mix. In some singers the anatomy of their facial skeleton and larynx facilitates a greater proportion of head voice and they are natural lyric voices. Some are more easily able to access chest register throughout the range and become heavier spinto and dramatic voices. I think every singer has a natural balance which suits them but not many find it. It also seems to change as we age. This may be nonsense, and in a years time as I continue my studies I may have completely different opinions. However I think the mystery is why classical singing is such a magical pursuit and is so emotionally satisfying for singer and listener alike when it goes well. Andrew
Message has been deleted
Derek McGovern
Oct 31, 2008, 10:08:45 PM10/31/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Interesting post, Andrew.
I agree that the literal translation of "spinto" ("pushed") is not
very helpful in defining what a lirico spinto tenor is. Perhaps the
best distinction between, say, a lyric tenor voice and a lirico spinto
is simply that the latter denotes a
larger, weightier voice than the former, and one that is darker and
richer in its basic colouring. Of course, having a larger voice
doesn't necessarily mean that a lirico spinto will be heard to greater
advantage than a lyric voice in an opera house, as it's all about how
well a voice projects (irrespective of size). I remember meeting
someone on my travels in Europe in the 1980s who had attended a
masterclass given by the lyric tenor Alfredo Kraus. Kraus had a
smallish voice, but as he demonstrated to his audience that day, he
was a genius at projection, and apparently never had any trouble being
heard in the gallery.
I'm glad you mentioned vocal registers, as this is something that is
often overlooked when discussing Lanza. Unlike quite a number of
operatic singers, you never hear him "changing gear", so to speak,
when he moves from his middle register to his upper register. The
whole effect was seamless. So much for claims that he lacked a solid
technique!
As a matter of curiosity, how would you classify your own voice type?
Lirico spinto?
Cheers
Derek
PS Andrew: If you'd prefer not to have your e-mail address partly
showing when you post, you can change this by clicking on "Edit my
membership" and selecting the name that you would like to appear in
your messages.
I agree that the literal translation of "spinto" ("pushed") is not
very helpful in defining what a lirico spinto tenor is. Perhaps the
best distinction between, say, a lyric tenor voice and a lirico spinto
is simply that the latter denotes a
larger, weightier voice than the former, and one that is darker and
richer in its basic colouring. Of course, having a larger voice
doesn't necessarily mean that a lirico spinto will be heard to greater
advantage than a lyric voice in an opera house, as it's all about how
well a voice projects (irrespective of size). I remember meeting
someone on my travels in Europe in the 1980s who had attended a
masterclass given by the lyric tenor Alfredo Kraus. Kraus had a
smallish voice, but as he demonstrated to his audience that day, he
was a genius at projection, and apparently never had any trouble being
heard in the gallery.
I'm glad you mentioned vocal registers, as this is something that is
often overlooked when discussing Lanza. Unlike quite a number of
operatic singers, you never hear him "changing gear", so to speak,
when he moves from his middle register to his upper register. The
whole effect was seamless. So much for claims that he lacked a solid
technique!
As a matter of curiosity, how would you classify your own voice type?
Lirico spinto?
Cheers
Derek
PS Andrew: If you'd prefer not to have your e-mail address partly
showing when you post, you can change this by clicking on "Edit my
membership" and selecting the name that you would like to appear in
your messages.
Sam
Nov 1, 2008, 12:30:14 PM11/1/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Derek and Andew:
Derek wrote: "I agree that the literal translation of
this makes more sense than defining a lirico spinto as one who
"pushes". So let us not take the Italian translation literally.
And I do realize the difference in projection versus volume. Tito
Schipa had a very delicate (and lovely) tenor voice, but it was a
small one. However, it has been said that one could hear him from the
back of an auditorium because he knew how to project. I am sure Mario
had this capability as well, although he had a much more powerful
instrument to start with.
And yes, Mario's voice could be quite seamless....but there are times
in recordings where he was lazy or having a bad day where you could
detect the register differences. Mostly in the shift to the lower
register. For the life of me, I can't think of one example right now.
Maybe that would make a new and interesting thread!
Derek wrote: "I agree that the literal translation of
"spinto" ("pushed") is not
very helpful in defining what a lirico spinto tenor is. Perhaps the
best distinction between, say, a lyric tenor voice and a lirico
spinto
is simply that the latter denotes a
larger, weightier voice than the former, and one that is darker and
richer in its basic colouring."
That is exactly what I was trying to express in my post above. To me
very helpful in defining what a lirico spinto tenor is. Perhaps the
best distinction between, say, a lyric tenor voice and a lirico
spinto
is simply that the latter denotes a
larger, weightier voice than the former, and one that is darker and
richer in its basic colouring."
this makes more sense than defining a lirico spinto as one who
"pushes". So let us not take the Italian translation literally.
And I do realize the difference in projection versus volume. Tito
Schipa had a very delicate (and lovely) tenor voice, but it was a
small one. However, it has been said that one could hear him from the
back of an auditorium because he knew how to project. I am sure Mario
had this capability as well, although he had a much more powerful
instrument to start with.
And yes, Mario's voice could be quite seamless....but there are times
in recordings where he was lazy or having a bad day where you could
detect the register differences. Mostly in the shift to the lower
register. For the life of me, I can't think of one example right now.
Maybe that would make a new and interesting thread!
Andrew Bain
Nov 4, 2008, 10:04:35 AM11/4/08
to mario...@googlegroups.com
Projection of voices is an interesting point I think. Of course so many of Mario's critics thought that his voice would not have carried in the theatre. HoweverI think the nonsense of this point of view has been proved without question.
I recently sang the "Pearlfishers Duet" in a concert with a baritone and at the reheasal I felt overwhelmed by the size of this baritones voice. I wondered how I was going to be heard next to the huge sound this boomy baritone made. At my next lesson my teacher assured me that my voice carries well and singers (especially baritones) with big voices up close are often lost in the theatre over an orchestra. When the concert came I had this advice in mind, I tried to trust my voice and not push and indeed people told me my voice carried much better than that of the baritone. Derek - your point about Alfredo Kraus is so true, the same with Juan Diego Florez who I recently heard in the Albert Hall without microphone. He could be heard fantastically in a notoriously hard venue to project in.
It seems true that higher voices carry better, I presume this must be physics. It also seems that, in order to carry, a voice needs what italians call "squillo" - the ring of a voice, that golden sheen on the top of the sound that Mario had in spades.
Derek you ask what voice type I think I have. Well I think I am a full lyric but not far off spinto and I think I will end up a reasonably big voice. I changed teachers about 2 years ago and that changed my voice greatly for the better. She focusses entirely on the warmth and richness I strive for, she is trying to remove any vestige of nasality I picked up when I used to sing in musical theatre. The journey however is ongoing.
Andrew
Derek McGovern
Nov 5, 2008, 9:04:49 PM11/5/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
A very interesting post, Andrew -- and I'm impressed that, like Lanza
in 1958, Florez was able to fill the vast Albert Hall auditorium
without a mike!
Yes, I've also noticed that lower voices tend not to project as well
as higher voices. As for squillo, you're right that Lanza had this "in
spades"! This has often been commented on those who were lucky enough
to have heard him in person. There's a very good description of
Lanza's squillo by one Merlyn C. Minick, who in 2000 recalled the
experience of attending Lanza's 1951 Kansas City recital:
"What I remember and admire most about Lanza's voice was its lyric
versatility and the voluminous and exquisitely clear and breathtaking
"ring" (bell-like) to his high notes as well as the soothing and
mature mellowness to his lower register. The so-called "ring" to
Mario's voice was particularly captivating and his ability to catapult
(if you will) the sheer brilliance of his voice to the far reaches of
any auditorium was uncanny. While listening to him (in the flesh), I
certainly relished the warm sound as it was being produced but I was
always more enraptured by his high notes and the residual or
"lingering" of his sounds which seemed to stand still (in time) as
they permeated the expanses of an auditorium, after sound production
itself had ceased. This lingering effect was not a result of "echoing"
per se but was in effect a suspension of the long-lived or lingering
reverberations which muscially described the "bigness" of his voice,
even as it was subsiding. This lingering effect was noticeable while
singing in the lower register but was particularly appealing and
brightest while Mario was singing in his highest register - - hence
that "ringing" sound. His stunningly beautiful and powerful high B, at
the close of La Donna E Mobile, literally shook the walls of the
auritorium. His top notes always ended having this reverberating and
lingering property [...]."
(From an essay at http://www.rense.com/excursions/lanza/listen.html)
in 1958, Florez was able to fill the vast Albert Hall auditorium
without a mike!
Yes, I've also noticed that lower voices tend not to project as well
as higher voices. As for squillo, you're right that Lanza had this "in
spades"! This has often been commented on those who were lucky enough
to have heard him in person. There's a very good description of
Lanza's squillo by one Merlyn C. Minick, who in 2000 recalled the
experience of attending Lanza's 1951 Kansas City recital:
"What I remember and admire most about Lanza's voice was its lyric
versatility and the voluminous and exquisitely clear and breathtaking
"ring" (bell-like) to his high notes as well as the soothing and
mature mellowness to his lower register. The so-called "ring" to
Mario's voice was particularly captivating and his ability to catapult
(if you will) the sheer brilliance of his voice to the far reaches of
any auditorium was uncanny. While listening to him (in the flesh), I
certainly relished the warm sound as it was being produced but I was
always more enraptured by his high notes and the residual or
"lingering" of his sounds which seemed to stand still (in time) as
they permeated the expanses of an auditorium, after sound production
itself had ceased. This lingering effect was not a result of "echoing"
per se but was in effect a suspension of the long-lived or lingering
reverberations which muscially described the "bigness" of his voice,
even as it was subsiding. This lingering effect was noticeable while
singing in the lower register but was particularly appealing and
brightest while Mario was singing in his highest register - - hence
that "ringing" sound. His stunningly beautiful and powerful high B, at
the close of La Donna E Mobile, literally shook the walls of the
auritorium. His top notes always ended having this reverberating and
lingering property [...]."
(From an essay at http://www.rense.com/excursions/lanza/listen.html)
gary from N.S.
Nov 6, 2008, 7:15:37 PM11/6/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Hello,
Sam, this is a most interesting topic,and I am glad you brought it up
at this time.
Derek,and Andrew, I have read and re-read your posts here,and have
learned much. There was a similar discussion quite some time ago,on
Rense's forum which I recall was quite good,but these recent posts
have really refreshed my memory on the topic,as well as adding
additional information.
In particular I find it interesting the way Andrew has spoken on
baritonal voices and how they project.(or don't as was explained)
Also, I never would have thought that J.D. Florez has a voice that
"could" project so well in a venue like Albert Hall.
I recently watched him on PBS (La Fille Du Regiment),and although I
don't care for the sound of his voice I admire his talent.
A. Kraus was mentioned by Derek regarding projection,and from what I
have seen and heard (youtube) by Kraus he comes across as a most
polished singer in his technique.Even though his voice is not terribly
strong he is a wonderful tenor singer.
Oh, how I wish I had the opportunity, even once, to have heard Lanza
in person.
I love reading the accounts of posters who write of their experiences
in this regard.
Cheers
Gary
Sam, this is a most interesting topic,and I am glad you brought it up
at this time.
Derek,and Andrew, I have read and re-read your posts here,and have
learned much. There was a similar discussion quite some time ago,on
Rense's forum which I recall was quite good,but these recent posts
have really refreshed my memory on the topic,as well as adding
additional information.
In particular I find it interesting the way Andrew has spoken on
baritonal voices and how they project.(or don't as was explained)
Also, I never would have thought that J.D. Florez has a voice that
"could" project so well in a venue like Albert Hall.
I recently watched him on PBS (La Fille Du Regiment),and although I
don't care for the sound of his voice I admire his talent.
A. Kraus was mentioned by Derek regarding projection,and from what I
have seen and heard (youtube) by Kraus he comes across as a most
polished singer in his technique.Even though his voice is not terribly
strong he is a wonderful tenor singer.
Oh, how I wish I had the opportunity, even once, to have heard Lanza
in person.
I love reading the accounts of posters who write of their experiences
in this regard.
Cheers
Gary
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