The Lord's Prayer

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Derek McGovern

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Nov 17, 2007, 6:41:17 PM11/17/07
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Since we recently touched on Mario's singing of The Lord's Prayer on
the Technical Aspects of Singing thread, I thought it would be nice to
give this majestic piece its own discussion thread.

There are four known versions by Lanza: a 1948 live radio broadcast,
an unreleased Coke Show rendition (1951), an MGM version for the
soundtrack of Because You're Mine (1951), and an RCA rendition, also
from 1951. They can all be heard here:

http://mariolanza.4shared.com/

There's also an outtake that, curiously enough, was recorded for
Because You're Mine three months *after* the version that was used in
the film and has yet to surface, plus, of course, the elusive ("very,
very beautifully" sung) rendition that, if Callinicos and Mannering
are to be believed, was Lanza's final recording. Now I don't accept
for a moment that Mario did sing The Lord's Prayer in September 1959
for the simple reason that the album (Lanza Sings Christmas Carols)
for which Callinicos claims the hymn was recorded was already in the
shops by that point! So much for that story. Of course, I wish Lanza
*had* recorded it, and it certainly would have been a more fitting
vocal farewell to his public than his actual final recording (One Good
Boy Gone Wrong - an admittedly appropriate title to some!), but given
the number of memorable renditions that we already have, it seems
greedy to expect anything more.

Of the versions that Mario did record, I like his MGM version the most
and the Coke version the least. It's interesting that these two
renditions were recorded only days apart, and yet Lanza's approach
couldn't be more different. The MGM take came first, and it's
exquisite. While not as dramatic in conception as the commercial
version (which I like almost as much), it's no less involving - and I
say that as someone who is not religious at all! - with Lanza
delivering some of his most intimate, controlled and hushed singing
before building up to a thrilling climax.

The 1948 radio performance is interesting. It has a few wayward
moments, including an unwise decision to take "as it is....in Heaven"
in one breath, but for a 27-year-old who was probably singing this
hymn for the first time in front of an audience, it's not bad at all.
And it's interesting too, as Armando pointed out in the earlier
thread, that this version is Lanza's most faithful rendition of
Malotte's score. While it's unlikely that Malotte would have heard
this broadcast, he must have listened to both the MGM and RCA
versions, with all their deviations from his markings. I wonder what
he thought of them, especially in comparison with John Charles
Thomas's famous rendition? (Malotte, incidentally, went on to outlive
both Thomas and Lanza.)

But enough of a preamble from me: which of the four Lanza renditions
do *you* prefer?

jora...@comcast.net

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Nov 18, 2007, 12:40:26 AM11/18/07
to Mario Lanza, tenor
Wow, tough choice: they are all beautiful in their own way ( all
contain "Marioisms", but that beeeeeeeeee in the 1951 RcA version does
it for me, even though I wish they had deleted the "...nih! sound on
the end of "Amen". The MGM version is a close second. Wouln't it be
wonderful if there really was another version as Callinncos indicated.
Incidently, is Callincos still living?

Derek McGovern

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Nov 18, 2007, 1:34:24 AM11/18/07
to Mario Lanza, tenor
Hi Joe: I'm not bothered by the "nih" at the end of "Amen" on the RCA
version, though you're definitely not alone in disliking it. (I know
it drives our Mike McA crazy!)

No, Callinicos is not alive - he died in 1986 at the age of 67.
Actually, most of Mario's conductors (at least those he recorded with)
died in the 1980s: Ray Heindorf (Serenade soundtrack) and Ray Sinatra
(the Coke Shows, etc) both died in 1980, and Franco Ferrara (the
Mario! album) in 1985. Henri Rene, on the other hand, managed to hold
on until 1993. I'm not sure when Paul Baron of Caruso Favorites fame
died; in fact, for all I know, he could still be with us (though he'd
have to be well into his 90s).

It's a pity that no one ever seems to have challenged Callinicos over
his claim about The Lord's Prayer. But, tellingly, even Clyde Smith -
a Lanza fan and an ardent friend and defender of Callinicos - doubts
that such a recording ever existed.



Nov 18, 6:40 pm, "jorain...@comcast.net" <jorain...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> > do *you* prefer?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Selma Singer

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Nov 18, 2007, 9:08:08 AM11/18/07
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Derek,

Thank you so much for this.

Selma

am...@ruc.dk

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Nov 18, 2007, 11:07:06 AM11/18/07
to Mario Lanza, tenor
It certainly is a very captivating 'beeeeee' Mario sings in the RCA
1951. In comparison the MGM 'be' seems just a bit more 'uncertain' to
me. In the RCA I also like the increase in intensity in the last lines
'For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory - for ever.'
In the same line in the MGM version Mario takes the line 'For thine is
the kingdom and the power' in one breath, but I think his inhale
between 'kingdom' & 'and the power' & 'and the glory' in the RCA works
better. It gives the different virtues a more significant status of
their own. It somehow makes it seem bigger and therefore makes the
adoration of God seem greater too. I am not a religious person myself,
so I could be wrong in my perception of this hymn, but I think the RCA
version all in all sounds like the most devoted of the four.
The MGM is a very close second. Here I like the slightly bigger
difference in Mario's strength of voice in line 'Thy will be done, On
earth as it is in heaven.' He holds a full forced voice up till
'earth' and then sings 'as it is in heaven' very softly, which makes
heaven sound much more appealing than earth. He does this softening on
'heaven' in the RCA too, but not as much as in the MGM. And, the organ
in the MGM adds to the religious atmosphere very nicely too.
In the 1948 version I think the orchestra and the chorus is a bit too
Hollywood-like and the violins is in my opinion way too dramatic,
increasing the strokes of the bows in the line 'temptation, but
deliver us from evil.' But I like the 1948 better than the Coke
version.

Ann-Mai

Derek McGovern

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Nov 19, 2007, 4:55:19 AM11/19/07
to Mario Lanza, tenor
Hi Ann-Mai: Just to clarify: the "be" on "hallowed be thy name" on the
MGM version actually suffers from dropouts on the version that's
currently available on the file sharing site. (Annoyingly, there are
also more dropouts on the climactic "forever".) That's why it sounds
uncertain. But in the film, this rendition sounds much better - that
is, if you hear it at the right speed. Many of the Lanza film clips
that were formerly available on youtube were running a semitone fast,
and they included The Lord's Prayer. That semitone makes a
surprisingly big difference - the voice sounds brighter, but also
thinner. So it may well be that you haven't heard the MGM version at
its best yet!

You made an interesting point, though, about where Lanza takes his
breath on the RCA version as opposed to the MGM rendition. Because he
doesn't take a breath before "and the glory" on the MGM version, that
line ("For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory") is
slightly rushed. But I love his "mmn-forever" (:-)) and the ringing
"Amen" that follows.

I think you'd find if you took a poll on which version people
preferred, there would be a fairly even split between the MGM and RCA
versions. No surprises there: they're both wonderful.

Muriel

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Nov 19, 2007, 10:24:33 AM11/19/07
to Mario Lanza, tenor
All of Mario's religious songs are involving as they are wholly in
sync with his beautiful tenor voice. I can attest to this as I've gone
off my intended route while driving and listening to the Ave Maria!!

Mario's RCA recording is dramatic for all the reasons already stated
here. The power in his "for thine is the Kingdom and the Power and the
Glory - forever" bring goosebumps every time. You want to follow him
all the way to Heaven!! The "aa-ha-men" bothers me, though. This is
one time that added syllable sounds inappropriate.

I'll take the MGM recording as my favorite. Give me Mario and an organ
and I'm hopelessly lost. Old sentimental me listens more with my heart
than my head many times. On my CD, the words "be" and "forever" are
clear and steady. He sounds more like he would in a church setting,
using a softer tone, but not any less magnificent in effect. His
"amen" is perfectly smooth, which I find more pleasing.

Have you noticed how he sings "Who art in-a Heaven" on these
recordings? I suppose it is easier to sing that way. In the 1948
recording, his "amen" is lovely, trailing off into the mysterious
beyond...enchanting.

Ciao from Muriel
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

Derek McGovern

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Nov 19, 2007, 1:51:06 PM11/19/07
to Mario Lanza, tenor
Hi Muriella: Yes, I'd noticed Mario's "Who art in-a Heaven" :-) He
also sings "in earth", rather than "on earth", on his 1948 version!

Jan Hodges

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Nov 19, 2007, 4:23:15 PM11/19/07
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Hi Muriel,
I always enjoy your musings on  Mario's music. I always feel that a song such as The Lord's Prayer is meant to be listened to with the heart and not the mind.
You are right. It is easier to sing  "in-a-heaven" that way.
What  you are referring to is actually a closing of the "n" consonant before launching into the aspirate "h".
If you listen to the beginning you will hear "Our-a- Father"  again caused by the closing of the consonant "r" .If he had rolled the "r" [which I know is out of fashion these days!] you would not have heard that tiny "a".
Try singing these lines yourself and you will find it is virtually impossible to leave out this "a" unless you make a small break after the consonant.
Much better to keep the melodic line going in my opinion.
Regards  Jan
faint_grain1.jpg

Muriel

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Nov 19, 2007, 9:05:22 PM11/19/07
to Mario Lanza, tenor
Hi Jan. Yes, I see what you mean, but you don't ever want to hear me
sing!! I doubt this song would benefit from rolling "r's, although I
love to hear Mario do it at other times. Thanks for the explanation -
I know you've studied voice so you know this subject well. It all
makes sense to keep the melodic line.

Ciao for now....M
> faint_grain1.jpg
> 1KViewDownload

Mike McAdam

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Nov 30, 2007, 10:19:26 AM11/30/07
to Mario Lanza, tenor
Muriel,

You mention how the "Aha-men" bothers you in Mario's awesome RCA
version of Malotte's hymn? It's the "Nuh!" after the "Aha" :) that
bothers me more. If you haven't spotted it on my post to the
'Christmas Carols' thread last evening, have a listen to how I removed
that awful "...aha-men-nuh!" at the end. You can hear a short before-
and-after excerpt here:


http://www.macadamedia.com/music/Lord'sPrayer_endingRegandMod.mp3 .

Cheers, Michael

Muriel

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Nov 30, 2007, 6:56:32 PM11/30/07
to Mario Lanza, tenor
Why, Michael, you're a wizard! How do you do that without making it
end abruptly? I also like your editing the end of the BYM Lord's
Prayer onto this recording. And, thanks to you, I can now hear these
excerpts since you helped me find the right player. I seem to have
lost that other one, though. My Windows Media Player used to have a
long list, but I cannot find it now. I spend half my life looking for
things....

Good to see you here - don't be shy. I must phone you again and
discuss computers as mine is not behaving well - like its
owner....Ciao from the Lady from Maryland

Derek McGovern

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Dec 17, 2008, 11:05:46 PM12/17/08
to mario...@googlegroups.com
I recently came across the following post on grandi-tenori.com:


"I'm not exactly a Lanza fan. However, I was working on Malotte's 'The
Lord's Prayer' and was researching various interpretations and his was
unbelievable. No one sings 'For thine is the kingdom, the power and
the glory' like him. It was almost like he was moved by the actual
prayer."


"Unbelievable" is definitely the word for those phrases! I'm assuming,
of course, that the poster was referring to Mario's RCA recording of
The Lord's Prayer. But what of Lanza's other versions of this
song/hymn?


A year ago, when our membership was still very small, we had a
shortlived thread devoted to this subject. I thought it'd be nice to
revive this discussion, especially for the benefit of some of our
newer members. This is also an opportunity to provide working links
again to some of the recordings mentioned in my first post on this
thread.


Just to sum up my original post: there are *four* renditions of The
Lord's Prayer by Lanza: a live radio performance (Edgar Bergen's Show)
of December 1948, and then three 1951 versions recorded within an
eight-week period in August-September. The first of these was the MGM
rendition for Because You're Mine, the second was a Coke radio version
just two weeks later, and the third was the RCA recording in late
September.


As mentioned earlier in the thread, there was also an outtake of the
song recorded in November 1951 for Because You're Mine that has yet to
surface, as well as a mythical September 1959 rendition that
Callinicos conjured up for his biography. (The song was actually
scheduled to be recorded in May 1959 for the Paul Baron-conducted
Christmas album, but Lanza declined to sing it -- a wise decision
given his terrible state of health that month.) Mario also sang The
Lord's Prayer at the third of his three recitals in Honolulu in 1950,
and as Armando points out, this was the only known occasion on which
he performed the hymn on the recital or concert stage.


Of the four versions we have, the only one I still don't enjoy is the
Coke version, which is simply far too rough. According to Roland
Bessette, one of the musicians present in the studio that day
considered Mario's rendition "earthshaking" (or words to that effect).
Well, it's certainly powerful in places -- but little else, with Lanza
sacrificing the beautiful, smooth line of his very sensitively
rendered MGM version. To me, in fact, the MGM recording now vies for
first place equal with the more dramatic, but no less touching, RCA
rendition.


As I mentioned in my original post, I quite like the live radio
version of 1948, which features some memorable touches here and there
(including a nice diminuendo on the last note), but I don't feel it's
near the standard of the MGM and RCA renditions. It's all a bit
rushed, and I just wish that Lanza could have been allowed to savour
the phrases. The accompanying choir also dates it badly at one point.
Still, it's interesting to hear a live version from Mario, as well as
a different arrangement from the RCA recording.


Incidentally, doesn't Lanza sound uncharacteristically stilted in his
scripted dialogue at the beginning of this version?!


Here are updated links to the three best versions:


First, the 1948 rendition:


http://www.4shared.com/file/76348293/c5007c4a/The_Lords_Prayer__live_radio_version_1948_.html


Then the MGM take:


http://www.4shared.com/file/76348364/dd3e9f11/The_Lords_Prayer__MGM_1951_.html


And finally the RCA version:


http://www.4shared.com/file/76348214/93bd63e1/The_Lords_Prayer__RCA_1951_.html


So: to all who enjoy Mario's singing of this song, which is your
favourite Lanza rendition -- and why?

Sam

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Dec 17, 2008, 11:43:07 PM12/17/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
The RCA version trumps them all. It has always been my favorite
because of its tender power (that is not a contradiction!). You should
hear how it sounds being pumped through my forties console Capehart
78rpm phonograph! The MGM version has a quiet beauty about it and is
intimate since it has only an organ accompaniment. If you listen
carefully you can hear Mario clear his throat during an organ
interlude halfway (the engineers should have removed it, but it now
makes for an interesting commentary). The 1948 rendition is fine, but
I agree that it is rushed. All three have wonderful high notes at the
end. But if I were on a desert island, I would take the RCA rendition
with me (along with my IPOD and ALL of Mario's recorded works, lol!).

On Dec 17, 11:05 pm, "Derek McGovern" <derek.mcgov...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> http://www.4shared.com/file/76348293/c5007c4a/The_Lords_Prayer__live_...
>
> Then the MGM take:
>
> http://www.4shared.com/file/76348364/dd3e9f11/The_Lords_Prayer__MGM_1...
>
> And finally the RCA version:
>
> http://www.4shared.com/file/76348214/93bd63e1/The_Lords_Prayer__RCA_1...

Derek McGovern

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Dec 17, 2008, 11:52:43 PM12/17/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
On Dec 18, 5:43 pm, Sam <s...@bee.net> wrote:

> The MGM version has a quiet beauty about it and is
> intimate since it has only an organ accompaniment. If you listen
> carefully you can hear Mario clear his throat during an organ
> interlude halfway (the engineers should have removed it, but it now
> makes for an interesting commentary).

Sam: The organ-only section featuring that throat-clearing (if that's
what it is) wasn't actually used in the film. Perhaps it was excised
because of the noise, but it's more likely that it was cut simply
because -- as a non-Lanza moment -- it wasn't needed.

Sean Glass

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Dec 18, 2008, 12:28:46 AM12/18/08
to mario...@googlegroups.com
All great- the only one I didn't have in my library was the MGM one; I'd seen him sing it in the movie "Because" but I'm glad to have that in such great quality. The RCA one is the one I have in the car so I've heard it about 1500 times :D that's probably my favorite, I love the especially dramatic ending.

Maria Luísa

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Dec 18, 2008, 9:22:48 AM12/18/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
This is too beautiful for words. All these Mario's interpretations are
wonderfully sung. For me they all are very similar, in each his voice
is of such beauty that no matter how many praising words one might say
they would sin for insufficient to properly define its grandeur in
totality. I was listening first to 1951 RCA version and I thought I
was hearing the splendid MGM BYM's, that is how much similar they
seemed to me. Perhaps because in BYM one can actually visualize Mario
acting "and" singing this precious religious song in the most possible
moving way and also because his magnificent voice in this period of
life - namely in all he sings in this film - was at its utmost
splendour, just because of that, I repeat, I do prefer this version,
but to me personally, the same to many others here as I noted, both of
these are absolutely supreme. As a religious person I give even more
credit if that was even possible to the magnificence of which Mario
sings this song in the film. Looking at his face while delivering it,
is as if he was effectively alone with God Himself talking or praying
directly to Him, such is the truth perceived by the listener in
Mario's brilliant delivery and THAT simple thought brings chills to
your spine. While we listen to that unbelievable (a word extremely
well put) singing and simultaneously see him, those are truly
spiritual moments never ever to be forgotten. Thanks Derek for the
precious links.
> http://www.4shared.com/file/76348293/c5007c4a/The_Lords_Prayer__live_...
>
> Then the MGM take:
>
> http://www.4shared.com/file/76348364/dd3e9f11/The_Lords_Prayer__MGM_1...
>
> And finally the RCA version:
>
> http://www.4shared.com/file/76348214/93bd63e1/The_Lords_Prayer__RCA_1...

Joe Fagan

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Dec 18, 2008, 2:17:02 PM12/18/08
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Each is beautiful in it's own way....but I prefer the ravishing RCA version.
Two points however: What is it "musically" that Mario does with the word
"be"......it is amazing!, like two different timbres on the same note. Is
there a name for this astounding feat?? Anyone else notice that as well?

Also, Mario ends the last note with kind a "nhaaa" sound. AT first, this
used to bother me, but now I interpret it as a "finality" to the prayer.

Also, allow me to wish all a happy Christmas as well as a wonderful holiday
to all our non_Christian friends!

Joe Fagan

Derek McGovern

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Dec 18, 2008, 4:01:14 PM12/18/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
On Dec 19, 8:17 am, "Joe Fagan" <jorain...@comcast.net> wrote:

> Each is beautiful in it's own way....but I prefer the ravishing RCA version.
> Two points however: What is it "musically" that Mario does with the word
> "be"......it is amazing!, like two different timbres on the same note. Is
> there a name for this astounding feat?? Anyone else notice that as well?

Hi Joe: You actually asked this same question just over a year ago --
and Armando answered it as follows:

"What you are hearing in the passage you mentioned from The Lord's
Prayer is a combination of what is technically known as gradation of
intensity, or the ability to augment and diminish the volume of tone.
This is also referred to as messa di voce, as well as crescendo, and
diminuendo. There can be various gradations of intensity with
different shades of colour with either clearer or sombre timbres. What
Lanza does on the word 'be' is increase the intensity and change the
colour slightly to a little clearer, and then decrease the intensity
on the word 'name.' In fact what he opts to do on 'be' is the opposite
of what's in the score, which indicates he should decrease in
intensity and taper off to
a diminuendo, but when it comes to the word 'name' he follows the
score, decreases the intensity and does a diminuendo on 'name.'

"Except for the start, he doesn't really follow the markings in the
score which is full of pianissimo, crescendo, and diminuendo;
nevertheless, it's very well sung."

That was a great post from Armando! More on the technical aspects of
singing can be read here:

http://groups.google.com/group/mariolanza/browse_thread/thread/caa102f4d39a22e1

Mike McAdam

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Dec 20, 2008, 3:35:37 PM12/20/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
I was just listening to the four versions of Malotte's hymn from my
various recordings here. The RCA version has much to recommend it and
has always been my favourite. Reverent in the opening passages but
powerful in the right places, building to a climactic ending and
then..."aha-men-NUH". Where's that Edgar Bergen Show diminuendo Mario?
That was a lovely, tasteful touch. And tasteful you were before those
sloppy Marioisms and Hollywood 'belting' became all too common in your
approach. While the RCA ending never bothered our usually-fussy
Derek :-) it drove me nuts!

I consequently 'fixed' the ending of this great RCA version and can
listen and be moved from beginning to end now.
For any new members (post-Christmas 2007) who haven't heard my
modified-ending version, you can download it here:

http://macadamedia.com/music/TheLord'sPrayer[mod].mp3

Armando: where Mario's voice changes in the "...be-e-e-e" in this
version. I thought he might have been shifting from a head to a chest
voice here? Non?
M.
> http://groups.google.com/group/mariolanza/browse_thread/thread/caa102...

Jan Hodges

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Dec 20, 2008, 5:06:39 PM12/20/08
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Hi Mike,
    I was interested in what you say about the different versions of The Lord's Prayer. Overall I preferred the MGM version because of the feeling of reverence and emotion that came through...but....technically speaking the earlier live radio version was much better. Here Mario observed more of the "rules" of singing. e.g he correctly has a silent "w" on the word power, not poWer as he sings on the other versions plus he has a tendency to  an extra "a" on the end of the words "our" and "heaven" and as you pointed out "amen" Actually the "amen" on the RCA version is particularly bad as his aspirate between the two notes on the "A" part of the  "amen" is very noticeable. He also resists the temptation to "scoop"[glissando] on the word "ever". In the radio version. There are so many "if only"'s a far as Mario is concerned. With his magnificent, glorious voice, his ability to convey emotion, if he had but paid attention a bit more often to some of the finer points..WOW!!!!!!!. But then he would have been perfect and  none of us are.
Sorry for being so pedantic.
I enjoyed your "version"although the link doesn't work. I copied and pasted the whole text and inserted a "www" and it downloaded excellently.
Jan 
faint_grain.jpg

Derek McGovern

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Dec 20, 2008, 5:24:36 PM12/20/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
Hi Mike: I do share your frustration with some of the "Hollywood"
lapses that crept into Mario's singing -- especially in the 1950-52
period -- but, fortunately, it's only the Coke version of The Lord's
Prayer that falls into that "sloppy" category. Listening to it just
now, it struck me as astonishing that his singing could be so rough
here, yet beautifully even and poetic on the MGM version just two
weeks earlier. No Hollywood-style intrusions there! In fact, as
Armando points out on the Technical Aspects of Singing thread I
mentioned above, Lanza actually adheres to Malotte's score a little
more closely on the MGM rendition than he does on the RCA recording
(which, so far, seems to be the most popular of his renditions among
our members). Here's the rest of that post from Armando:

"[However,] his closest adherence to the score is the 1948 version,
where he follows nearly all the markings and even ends 'Amen'
rallentando e morendo, as indicated. [There's the adherence to that
diminuendo you & I both admire, Mike!] He is better, though, at the
start of both of the 1951 versions. On 'Our Father' which is marked
ppp and 'which art in heaven,' marked pp. Having said this, John
Charles Thomas, whom Malotte wrote the song for, doesn't stick
strictly to the score either."

Derek McGovern

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Dec 20, 2008, 6:06:21 PM12/20/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
On Dec 21, 11:06 am, "Jan Hodges" <jmhod...@netspace.net.au> wrote:

> There are so many "if only"'s as far as Mario is concerned.
> With his magnificent, glorious voice, his ability to convey emotion, if he
> had but paid attention a bit more often to some of the finer points.
> WOW!!!!!!!. But then he would have been perfect and none of us are.

Well said, Jan. The very astute Claudia Cassidy expressed the same
thing when she referred to the "multitude of fine points [that] evade
[Lanza]." But like the conductor John Green, who spoke of Mario's
"great feeling for the making of music" to Armando, Cassidy also
recognised that, ultimately, those shortcomings were far outweighed by
his possession of those "things that are almost impossible to learn".
In olther words, as Green, Ferrara, and Adler -- and so many top
musicians who worked closely with Lanza -- observed, the man simply
had a "great musicality".

Still, as far as those "finer points" were concerned, one can
certainly hear Mario paying closer attention to them on the best of
his 1958-59 work. Listen to something like Ideale, for example, which
couldn't be more faithful to the score (especially compared with most
singers' versions). When Peter Herman Adler visited him at the Villa
Badoglio in the summer of 1959, he was impressed to discover that
Mario was working with an operatic coach (almost certainly Franco
Zauli) two hours a day. The man never gave up learning, and, as Adler
noted, he was still determined to return to "his only true love": the
opera.

Jan Hodges

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Dec 20, 2008, 6:33:16 PM12/20/08
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I agree with everything you have said Derek. I certainly don't think that a singer should stick strictly to the style etc. markings   of the composer. There has to be latitude for the singer to bring in his/her own interpretation to adequately portray how they feel about the lyrics which are  after all the most important parts of a song. As my teacher used to say "If your diction is no good and the audience can't hear what you are singing about you might as well play an instrument." This is why I don't regard Joan Sutherland highly as a singer. She has a beautiful voice ,technically very correct and she makes a gorgeous sound but for the life of me I cannot understand a word she sings.
I am unable to comment on Mario's handling of the Italian language or the Neapolitan idiom as I do not speak either..but I am fluent in English.
:-)  Jan
faint_grain.jpg

Lou

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Dec 20, 2008, 8:03:51 PM12/20/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
> Here's the rest of that post from Armando:
>
> "[However,] his closest adherence to the score is the 1948 version,
> where he follows nearly all the markings and even ends 'Amen'
> rallentando e morendo, as indicated. [There's the adherence to that
> diminuendo you & I both admire, Mike!] He is better, though, at the
> start of both of the 1951 versions. On 'Our Father' which is marked
> ppp and 'which art in heaven,' marked pp. Having said this, John
> Charles Thomas, whom Malotte wrote the song for, doesn't stick
> strictly to the score either."

And here's a link to John Charles Thomas' version (starting at 6:40):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpGp5-aVpYw

Armando

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Dec 20, 2008, 8:06:22 PM12/20/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum


On Dec 21, 7:35 am, Mike McAdam <macadame...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:

Armando: where Mario's voice changes in the "...be-e-e-e" in this
version. I thought he might have been shifting from a head to a chest
voice here? Non?
M.

Hi Mike: You rise what is both an interesting and controversial
point.

What Lanza does in the Lord’s Prayer, is start off in a head voice and
then change to full voice on the words ‘be thy name,’ by increasing
the diaphragmatic support.
It would not be incorrect to use chest voice, but I don’t like to
focus on registers as this only makes the listener aware of them. The
voice should be produced in an even manner with no audible changes.
This is exactly the way Lanza sang. You cannot detect the changes
because he was singing and supporting correctly. In other words, he
had not only mastered a solid technique, but knew exactly what he was
doing.


Maria Luísa

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Dec 21, 2008, 8:42:29 AM12/21/08
to The Mario Lanza Forum
What a voice my God! And what a timbre! For a moment and this in more
than one passage, I really thought I was hearing Mario Lanza! This is
something given the fact that I personally think Mario had the most
powerful tenor voice of all times. Fantastic singing really. I adored
to listen to this exceptionally beautiful Lord's Prayer.
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Derek McGovern

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Apr 14, 2011, 1:03:14 PM4/14/11
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Here's another great thread that's worthy of a second reading. 

I've just been comparing the RCA and the MGM versions (not having played either rendition for ages), and I find I still prefer the latter. Yes, the recording itself is riddled with dropouts (though the sound here is still better than in the movie it comes from -- Because You're Mine), but to me it's a more intimate, and ultimately more moving, rendition than the enjoyably dramatic RCA version. 

I was also surprised by how much I enjoyed the live 1948 version, despite that very poorly supported "in heaven" near the beginning -- and other faults. Beautiful ending (as Mike pointed out upthread).

Here are those links again:

The 1948 rendition:


The MGM take (1951):


And the RCA version (1951):

 

Derek McGovern

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Jul 12, 2013, 11:07:07 PM7/12/13
to mario...@googlegroups.com
I thought I'd bump this worthy thread back up to the top of the list. (I see, by the way, that the links in my previous post are still working.) 

Derek McGovern

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Jul 12, 2013, 11:11:34 PM7/12/13
to mario...@googlegroups.com
P.S. In the opening post on this thread, there's a reference to an earlier thread on the technical aspects of singing, in which "The Lord's Prayer" was also discussed. Here's the link to that thread, which is also well worth (re-)reading:

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