Motion Computing J3500 for fieldwork
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Steve King
Jan 5, 2011, 8:36:57 PM1/5/11
to mapi...@googlegroups.com
Hi
I am considering purchasing a Motion Computing
J3500 tablet computer for geological fieldwork. Has anyone used one of
these with Mapinfo and have any comments on its usability for inbuilt GPS and
screen viewability in direct sun. I plan to map interactively using
Mapinfo and Discover.
Cheers
Steve
gasenngo
Jan 5, 2011, 11:03:21 PM1/5/11
to mapi...@googlegroups.com
Would like to hear how to use the stylus to draw object in MapInfo and also the viewability in direct sun light.
college.atlas
Jan 6, 2011, 1:15:47 AM1/6/11
to MapInfo-L
We use and sell Motion tablets. Both the previous model (J3400) and
the J3500.
Like any gear if you look after it it will look after you.
Two points.
Regardless of what the brochure says about "Gorilla glass" buy screen
protector adhesive film. It's usually an option. We consider it
mandatory. While the pen will never scratch the glass, get a bit of
grit between the pen tip and the glass and see how long it lasts!
Second is the built in GPS. Make sure you get the "GOBI" GPS module.
They can be fitted with a couple of different modules. The GPS modules
make use of cell phone\mobile phone network towers to improve time to
fix. This is called GPS+A or Augmented GPS. One module WILL NOT WORK
WITHOUT CELL COVERAGE. So if you're out in the middle of nowhere
without mobile phone coverage you're not going to get a fix. I know it
sounds hard to believe but I had to swap out 6 GPS units for the GOBI
unit. Motion admit this is a flaw. The GOBI unit while GPS+A will work
without cell coverage.
They're great. They have the best screen for outdoor use even in
bright sunlight. Note the screen is highly polished. Wear your sun
glasses. The odd flash of reflected sun can be annoying.
We use a MapXmobile application and object creation is just like using
a mouse. tapping on the screen is like left click of a mouse. So
tracing an object with a polyline or polygon is the same as working at
a desktop, Just remember double taps finish the line. If you're too
keen you may tap too quickly and accidently finish a polyline\gon too
early.
Mapinfo doen't have the ability to read the "ink" mode the pen is
capable of. I tried to write a "streaming" interface for Mapinfo some
years ago but found there are some fundamental limitations with
Mapinfo preventing it from working.
Depending on how you rig up the GPS with Mapinfo\Discover you might
also need to invest in GPSGate. This tool does nothing more than
manage the input from the GPS and output to your application.
Sometimes applications have trouble addressing the port created by the
on board GPS. This is not a fault of the Motion. I've had a lot of
tablets with built in GPS that have this issue. At USD$19, GPS gate
takes a heck of a lot of angst out of the equation. you'll find out
pretty quickly if you need it or not.
Anyway that's about it. I've personally been using tablet PC's for
about 15 years. They all have their idiosyncracies.Honestly they're
top unit and the Motion after sales service is usually very good.
Hope this helps.
the J3500.
Like any gear if you look after it it will look after you.
Two points.
Regardless of what the brochure says about "Gorilla glass" buy screen
protector adhesive film. It's usually an option. We consider it
mandatory. While the pen will never scratch the glass, get a bit of
grit between the pen tip and the glass and see how long it lasts!
Second is the built in GPS. Make sure you get the "GOBI" GPS module.
They can be fitted with a couple of different modules. The GPS modules
make use of cell phone\mobile phone network towers to improve time to
fix. This is called GPS+A or Augmented GPS. One module WILL NOT WORK
WITHOUT CELL COVERAGE. So if you're out in the middle of nowhere
without mobile phone coverage you're not going to get a fix. I know it
sounds hard to believe but I had to swap out 6 GPS units for the GOBI
unit. Motion admit this is a flaw. The GOBI unit while GPS+A will work
without cell coverage.
They're great. They have the best screen for outdoor use even in
bright sunlight. Note the screen is highly polished. Wear your sun
glasses. The odd flash of reflected sun can be annoying.
We use a MapXmobile application and object creation is just like using
a mouse. tapping on the screen is like left click of a mouse. So
tracing an object with a polyline or polygon is the same as working at
a desktop, Just remember double taps finish the line. If you're too
keen you may tap too quickly and accidently finish a polyline\gon too
early.
Mapinfo doen't have the ability to read the "ink" mode the pen is
capable of. I tried to write a "streaming" interface for Mapinfo some
years ago but found there are some fundamental limitations with
Mapinfo preventing it from working.
Depending on how you rig up the GPS with Mapinfo\Discover you might
also need to invest in GPSGate. This tool does nothing more than
manage the input from the GPS and output to your application.
Sometimes applications have trouble addressing the port created by the
on board GPS. This is not a fault of the Motion. I've had a lot of
tablets with built in GPS that have this issue. At USD$19, GPS gate
takes a heck of a lot of angst out of the equation. you'll find out
pretty quickly if you need it or not.
Anyway that's about it. I've personally been using tablet PC's for
about 15 years. They all have their idiosyncracies.Honestly they're
top unit and the Motion after sales service is usually very good.
Hope this helps.
Steve King
Jan 6, 2011, 1:39:13 AM1/6/11
to mapi...@googlegroups.com
Thanks "College" thats exactly the sort of stuff I've been hoping for. Any
comments on Solid State Drive Versus Hard Disk and any of the accessories
that you have found useful (I was going to get the bump case and tethered
pen and car charger) and how the battery usage goes - how many batteries do
I need to buy for a days mapping?
comments on Solid State Drive Versus Hard Disk and any of the accessories
that you have found useful (I was going to get the bump case and tethered
pen and car charger) and how the battery usage goes - how many batteries do
I need to buy for a days mapping?
Thanks for your help
Cheers
Steve
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Noli Sicad
Jan 6, 2011, 2:17:19 AM1/6/11
to mapi...@googlegroups.com, colleg...@gmail.com
Is the "GOBI" GPS module, a GPS & A-GPS and 3G module and works on GSM network?
Is it a mini pcie card? If this is available in pcie / mini pcie card
how much it cost?
Thanks.
Noli
Noli Sicad
Jan 6, 2011, 2:30:39 AM1/6/11
to mapi...@googlegroups.com, colleg...@gmail.com
Just disregard the question.
Noli
college.atlas
Jan 6, 2011, 5:44:09 PM1/6/11
to MapInfo-L
Steve,
You're on the right track with the bump case and the car charger.
As for batteries depends entirely on your mode of operation.
There are two common modes of operation.
100% on foot field work
intermittently in and out of a vehicle
In the first case the tablet needs 100% on board battery support for a
days work.
The motion comes standard with one battery. This is quoted as 3.7
hours running time. There are provisos around this. However our
experience and the way we use the system we get very nearly that sort
of performance.
Two batteries gets you 7.4 hours. Almost a day.
In most field practices there will be a rest periods. If that period
is about an hour through a day and you're near your vehicle you can
drop the motion onto the car charger.
With two batteries and some supplemental recharge you can squeak
through 8 hour day on two batteries.
We run our guys away from the vehicle 100% so these guys have 3
charged battery packs. With this configuration you have to be able to
recharge three batteries for the next day. You can only rechartge two
in the Motion. In most cases you should be able to recharge at least
one battery before you hit the hay. Swap that battery out for the flat
one from the morning and leave the unit to finish charging overnight.
If that doesn't work you can get a stand alone battery charger.
Note the system discharges one battery and then the other. It also
charges one and then the other. Also note the batteries are truly hot
swappable. You can drop both batteries out and the unit will run for
about 30 seconds on a small internal cell.
If you're in and out of a vehicle and you're actually using the unit
for about 5-5.5 hours a day you can just about get away with one
battery as you can top up the charge quicker than you discharge.
I would recommend 2 batteries up front and see how it performs for
you. If after running the system in the field for a while you think
need a third order it.
SSD vs Spinning drive. SSD is a bit more expensive with less capacity
per dollar. We recommend these in high dynamic environments like rally
cars or when there is a real risk of solid impact that exceed MIL STD
810F for shock. Most of the units we've used and sold (100s) have been
spinning drives. Of those I think only 3 or 4 had drive failures OF
ANY DESCRIPTION, and only 1 may have had damage cause by a drop. I say
may as it was a few years old and may simply have failed on it's own
due to wear. We recently sold 3.SSD units into a very low impact
environment. SSDs do have a life. The way to understand SSD is like
bubble wrap with each bubble being a byte. Each bubble can be written
and read to about 100,000 times. After that the bubble "pops" and can
no longer be used. This will be marked as bad and never written to
again. Over time the drive will degrade to unusable. At 64 or 128GB it
will take a very long time before you notice the degradation. They do
have some minor battery life improvement but we've found the cost in
dollars and size outweigh the battery life. Speed of data access?
Again we've not seen enough improvement here to warrant the swap.
As I said in my first post, look after it and it will look after you.
The bump case and shoulder strap are there to protect the drive and
the case from knocks.
So
J3500
Bump case
two batteries
car charger
screen protectors
spare pen (optional but you have this as part of the kit because
there's nothing worse than travelling into the field for a weeks work
and having the pen get stepped on on day one)
That would be a good start.
> http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/340110265-Qualcomm-Gobi-2000-3G-...
You're on the right track with the bump case and the car charger.
As for batteries depends entirely on your mode of operation.
There are two common modes of operation.
100% on foot field work
intermittently in and out of a vehicle
In the first case the tablet needs 100% on board battery support for a
days work.
The motion comes standard with one battery. This is quoted as 3.7
hours running time. There are provisos around this. However our
experience and the way we use the system we get very nearly that sort
of performance.
Two batteries gets you 7.4 hours. Almost a day.
In most field practices there will be a rest periods. If that period
is about an hour through a day and you're near your vehicle you can
drop the motion onto the car charger.
With two batteries and some supplemental recharge you can squeak
through 8 hour day on two batteries.
We run our guys away from the vehicle 100% so these guys have 3
charged battery packs. With this configuration you have to be able to
recharge three batteries for the next day. You can only rechartge two
in the Motion. In most cases you should be able to recharge at least
one battery before you hit the hay. Swap that battery out for the flat
one from the morning and leave the unit to finish charging overnight.
If that doesn't work you can get a stand alone battery charger.
Note the system discharges one battery and then the other. It also
charges one and then the other. Also note the batteries are truly hot
swappable. You can drop both batteries out and the unit will run for
about 30 seconds on a small internal cell.
If you're in and out of a vehicle and you're actually using the unit
for about 5-5.5 hours a day you can just about get away with one
battery as you can top up the charge quicker than you discharge.
I would recommend 2 batteries up front and see how it performs for
you. If after running the system in the field for a while you think
need a third order it.
SSD vs Spinning drive. SSD is a bit more expensive with less capacity
per dollar. We recommend these in high dynamic environments like rally
cars or when there is a real risk of solid impact that exceed MIL STD
810F for shock. Most of the units we've used and sold (100s) have been
spinning drives. Of those I think only 3 or 4 had drive failures OF
ANY DESCRIPTION, and only 1 may have had damage cause by a drop. I say
may as it was a few years old and may simply have failed on it's own
due to wear. We recently sold 3.SSD units into a very low impact
environment. SSDs do have a life. The way to understand SSD is like
bubble wrap with each bubble being a byte. Each bubble can be written
and read to about 100,000 times. After that the bubble "pops" and can
no longer be used. This will be marked as bad and never written to
again. Over time the drive will degrade to unusable. At 64 or 128GB it
will take a very long time before you notice the degradation. They do
have some minor battery life improvement but we've found the cost in
dollars and size outweigh the battery life. Speed of data access?
Again we've not seen enough improvement here to warrant the swap.
As I said in my first post, look after it and it will look after you.
The bump case and shoulder strap are there to protect the drive and
the case from knocks.
So
J3500
Bump case
two batteries
car charger
screen protectors
spare pen (optional but you have this as part of the kit because
there's nothing worse than travelling into the field for a weeks work
and having the pen get stepped on on day one)
That would be a good start.
> http://www.aliexpress.com/product-fm/340110265-Qualcomm-Gobi-2000-3G-...
>
> Noli
>
> On 1/6/11, Noli Sicad <nsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Is the "GOBI" GPS module, a GPS & A-GPS and 3G module and works on GSM
> > network?
>
> > Is it a mini pcie card? If this is available in pcie / mini pcie card
> > how much it cost?
>
> > Thanks.
>
> > Noli
>
> Noli
>
> On 1/6/11, Noli Sicad <nsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Is the "GOBI" GPS module, a GPS & A-GPS and 3G module and works on GSM
> > network?
>
> > Is it a mini pcie card? If this is available in pcie / mini pcie card
> > how much it cost?
>
> > Thanks.
>
> > Noli
>
Steve King
Jan 6, 2011, 6:11:23 PM1/6/11
to mapi...@googlegroups.com
Thanks for that
One last question. Whats the accuracy of the GPS without cell coverage,
I'll be in outback Australia. I have a Garmin 60csx (accuracy 3-10m)- would
I be better using that tethered via usb?
Cheers
One last question. Whats the accuracy of the GPS without cell coverage,
I'll be in outback Australia. I have a Garmin 60csx (accuracy 3-10m)- would
I be better using that tethered via usb?
Cheers
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "college.atlas" <colleg...@gmail.com>
To: "MapInfo-L" <mapi...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 07, 2011 8:44 AM
Subject: [MI-L] Re: Motion Computing J3500 for fieldwork
college.atlas
Jan 9, 2011, 5:34:03 PM1/9/11
to MapInfo-L
Steve all GPS's in this class are 3-10m. (emphasis on the 10!)
The augmentation via cell is s speed thing not an accuracy thing.
Fortunately outback Australia is basically big sky country. So as you
travel north in Australia you're getting closer to the equator and
therefore improving the satellite coverage as Navstar satellites are
optimised for Northern hemisphere coverage.
The Garmin however has a whole heap of functions that other PC
application do not. Most PC apps just use the GPS as an input.
Handhelds have navigation tools that allow you to pre-plot waypoints
and guide you into those locations. Mapinfo and Geographic tracker are
very rudimentary tools for GPS interfacing. Not sure if Discover has
any GPS tools of it's own.
Long story short I would try them both out to see which provides the
best utility. You get the on board GPS by default when you buy the
tablet. Handhelds can be inconvenient unless you have three hands.
Sometimes the handheld GPS performs better in challenging conditions.
For what it's worth I always carry a handheld and spare set of
batteries. When the PC is flat and you've forgotten to grab the car
charger out of the other truck at least you'll get home for a meal
that night.
On Jan 7, 10:11 am, "Steve King" <stevek...@solidgeology.com.au>
wrote:
The augmentation via cell is s speed thing not an accuracy thing.
Fortunately outback Australia is basically big sky country. So as you
travel north in Australia you're getting closer to the equator and
therefore improving the satellite coverage as Navstar satellites are
optimised for Northern hemisphere coverage.
The Garmin however has a whole heap of functions that other PC
application do not. Most PC apps just use the GPS as an input.
Handhelds have navigation tools that allow you to pre-plot waypoints
and guide you into those locations. Mapinfo and Geographic tracker are
very rudimentary tools for GPS interfacing. Not sure if Discover has
any GPS tools of it's own.
Long story short I would try them both out to see which provides the
best utility. You get the on board GPS by default when you buy the
tablet. Handhelds can be inconvenient unless you have three hands.
Sometimes the handheld GPS performs better in challenging conditions.
For what it's worth I always carry a handheld and spare set of
batteries. When the PC is flat and you've forgotten to grab the car
charger out of the other truck at least you'll get home for a meal
that night.
On Jan 7, 10:11 am, "Steve King" <stevek...@solidgeology.com.au>
wrote:
Anthony Watkins
Sep 7, 2013, 8:34:09 PM9/7/13
to mapi...@googlegroups.com
I know this is an old group but I'm trying to find information on which Gobi WWAN card for a J3400. You posted that you had swapped many of them out so I was wondering if you could tell me which card you put in and what the method was for doing so? I purchased a Gobi 1000 UNDP-1 but have been unable to make it work right. It's enabled in the bios and shows up in the device manager, the only drives that would work were from an acer package so I'm thinking it could be locked from working on other systems. If by chance you get this, any help would be most appreciated. Thanks
college.atlas
Sep 24, 2013, 3:23:55 AM9/24/13
to mapi...@googlegroups.com
Sorry for the late reply Anthony.
When I said "swapped out" I meant whole tablets. I've never invaded a tablet case and put a new card in the machine.
Sorry about that.
However the spec of the card you'd want is the Gobi MDM-1000 Mini card.
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