Add Projection Timbalai 1948

[ZamboRA Boms]

Dear All,

Can you help me, about how to add projection "timbalai 1948 BRSO" in encom- discover MapInfo bundle 2013?

Location at Sarawak, Malaysia

Thanks before All, and hopefully can help me...

Regards,

Rahman.A

[college.atlas]

Rahman,

Might need to just point you in the right direction and hope you or someone else can carry.

Guessing you've got an idea how the MAPINFO.PRJ file works. The next thing is to break down the Timalai projection and HOPE Mapinfo has the parts needs to make it up.

A straight serach turns up this http://spatialreference.org/ref/sr-org/7612/ Downloading the .PRJ file (very different from the MAPINFO.PRJ) looks like this.

PROJCS["Timbalai 1948 / BRSO Borneo (m)",GEOGCS["Timbalai 1948",DATUM["D_Timbalai_1948",SPHEROID["Everest_1830_1967_Definition",6377298.556,300.8017]],PRIMEM["Greenwich",0],UNIT["Degree",0.017453292519943295]],PROJECTION 

["Hotine_Oblique_Mercator_Azimuth_Natural_Origin"],PARAMETER["latitude_of_center",4],PARAMETER["longitude_of_center",115],PARAMETER["azimuth",53.31582047222222],PARAMETER["rectified_grid_angle",53.13010236111111],PARAMETER["scale_factor",0.99984],PARAMETER["false_easting",2000000.0],PARAMETER["false_northing",5000000.0],UNIT["Meter",1]]

All projections are made of ellipsoids\spheroids and a method of projection with unique parameters.

In MI's case you can't create a custom ellipsoid\spheroid so if your "Everest_1830_1967_Definition" isn't currently supported you're out of luck. However looking for "Everest_1830_1967_Definition" won't help you either becasue every mapping tool has a different way of expressing the same thing. The only thing for sure is to look through MI documentation for actual values that make up the spheroid. e.g. 6377298.556,300.8017

Lucky for you this old link(using the WaybackMachine http://web.archive.org/web/20081205054404/http://www.kxcad.net/MapInfo/MapInfo_Professional/MapInfow-22-4.html from this question https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mapinfo-l/H5a0aQ-jVLw appears to have the right ellipsoid

39

Everest (Brunei and East Malaysia (Sabah and Sarawak))

6377298.556

300.8017

Hooray!

The next part is harder, the projection method.

Turns out the Hotine Oblique Mercator is the same as Rectified Skew Orthomorphic Center from this discussion https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/mapinfo-l/PbWNEZY0ffc 

At this point I'll have to leave you to it. Hopefully you or someone else can fill in the rest of the blanks.

[ZamboRA Boms]

Hi friends,

Thanks a lot for reply, but I am still confused with the format to be added,
How the format to add in the C: \ Program Files (x86) \ MapInfo \ Professional \ MAPINFOW.PRJ

whether just copy paste with formatting like above?

PROJCS["Timbalai 1948 / BRSO Borneo (m)",GEOGCS["Timbalai 1948",DATUM["D_Timbalai_1948",SPHEROID["Everest_1830_1967_Definition",6377298.556,300.8017]],PRIMEM["Greenwich",0],UNIT["Degree",0.017453292519943295]],PROJECTION 

["Hotine_Oblique_Mercator_Azimuth_Natural_Origin"],PARAMETER["latitude_of_center",4],PARAMETER["longitude_of_center",115],PARAMETER["azimuth",53.31582047222222],PARAMETER["rectified_grid_angle",53.13010236111111],PARAMETER["scale_factor",0.99984],PARAMETER["false_easting",2000000.0],PARAMETER["false_northing",5000000.0],UNIT["Meter",1]]

and then saved?

Or like this one?

Thanks a lot, you sharing Sir...

Regards,

Rahman.A

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[Uffe Kousgaard]

Hi,

No, you will have to turn the information from the string starting with PROJCS into a single line inside the mapinfo.prj file. They are quite different.

College.atlas did a lot of that work, but there is still a way to go.
If you have never tried this before, it is a bit tricky.
Maybe I'll have a go at it in the next few days, if noone else replies.

Regards
Uffe Kousgaard

[college.atlas]

Sorry Rahman wish I had time to explain but understanding and editing the MAPINFO.PRJ file is actually well documented.

I can tell you the projection details provided CANNOT be used directly. You're going to have to construct a Mapinfo projection for Timbalai and insert it into the PRJ file yourself. 

As I said the missing piece is whether Mapinfo supports the  Hotine Oblique Mercator or Rectified Skew Orthomorphic Center projection.

Doing web searches like "editing MAPINFO.PRJ" and even Mapinfo's own help files and user manuals will give you all that you need to understand what you need to do to edit the PRJ file.

Even a direct question to PB support like "Does Mapinfo support Hotine Oblique Mercator or Rectified Skew Orthomorphic Center projection?" will give you a solid answer.

Good luck.

On Wednesday, 4 May 2016 23:47:30 UTC+10, rahman aliah wrote:

[ZamboRA Boms]

Hi Atlas,

yes, you are right, I have to build in MapInfo format, but it is that I have not experienced to establish the format, ok I'll try to learn for it

Regards,
Rahman.A

[Timothy Mashford]

Does this work? (provided by the Universal Translator)

"Timbalai 1948 BRSO", 7, 96, 7, 115, 4, 53.3158204722, 0.99984, 2000000, 5000000

Regards,
Rahman.A

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[ZamboRA Boms]

Hi Timothy,

Excellent, very nice Brother...

Many thanks, I tried to always be alert 35 invalid type projection

But, with this one...Mr.Timothy this one solution...

Regards,

Rahman.A

[ZamboRA Boms]

how to convert from the projection Timbalai 1948 BRSO to Geography WGS84, because i try with the way "Save as" the result like below, any gap 

And feedback and suggestions...Thanks

​

Thanks

[Fahad Ally]

Rehman, are you getting different lengths between these two corners?

 

 

Take care and warm regards.

Cheers

Fahad

[ZamboRA Boms]

Hi Fahad,

Thanks before your respons,
So, that's not what I mean, I want to ask, if a layer having a projection BRSO timbalai 1948, if at overlay with a layer having Longitude WGS84 projection there is always a gap like the images I capture. and I want the conversion layer between them, how?

Because i having data point from handheld gps 60csx garmin with setting BRSO timbalai 1948, if overlay with layer having Longitude WGs84, The data is not shifted closer to the actual

Thanks Sir

[Scott Daugherty]

Hello Zambo

If you are experiencing data shift  from the 2 projections you will have to convert  the file.  That is if the layer that is BRSO timbalai 1948 is not recognized in that projection you may have to load that layer into a Map set to the BRSO timbalai 1948 and then save it  or a copy as wgs84 projection.

 

Scott

[David Sherrod]

Zambo, may I ask . . . how are you projecting the Garmin-acquired data?

It's my recollection that Garmin output is WGS84 lat-long.  Regardless of how the device is formatted for onscreen (device) viewing, the data is stored and dumped in WGS84.  Conceivably you are taking WGS84 output and projecting AS IF Timbalai '48, thereby unknowingly creating your own datum-shift problem.

Or is my assumption overly simplistic?

[ZamboRA Boms]

Hi Scott,

Thanks your respon, I use a projection add to this format,

"Timbalai 1948 BRSO", 7, 96, 7, 115, 4, 53.3158204722, 0.99984, 2000000, 5000000

and I try to overlay with a layer WGS84 geographical projection, I've tried to convert the WGS layer 84 to BRSO timbalai1948, and the result is the same as ever I attach, and feedback

Regards
RAHMAN

[ZamboRA Boms]

Hi David,

Thanks for respond Sir, I mean Garmin Garmin GPS handhelds, and setting projection format using the system BRSO format and map datum Timbalai 1948. I tried to marking with the GPS, the coordinates is shown with the first digit eg 313 117 East, North 301 846, and manually I plot in Map Info by adding each digit in front east and north 2313117 5301846

May I ask, how does the conversion from Longitude/Latitude WGS84 datum to  Timbalai 1948 or vice versa, using MapInfo bundle 2013?

Regards,

Rahman.A

[ZamboRA Boms]

Dear Experts MI

configuration that works,

"Timbalai 1948 BRSO", 7, 96, 7, 115, 4, 53.3158204722, 0.99984, 2000000, 5000000

but if the layer of WGS84 we try reprojection with configuration given above, the result is any gap, can you provide a solution?

Thanks before Sir...

Regards
Rahman

[college.atlas]

Rahman,

When it gets to this level of diagnosis you have to go back to first principles.

I'm now suspicious there is a mis-calculation, mis-configuration or a misunderstanding somewhere in the process.

Please perform a simple test.

Using you Garmin GPS configured for Timbalai write down the coordinate near your office. Timbalai E=xxxxx, N=xxxxx

Without moving from that spot configure the Garmin to display Lat\Long WGS 84. record this value Lat=xx.xxxxxx, Long=xxx.xxxxxx

Now you have a calibration point. This point has know coordinates in both systems.

Now in Mapinfo 

• Create a very simple table in WGS84 Datum. Plot the lat/long point.
• Create ANOTHER TABLE with the Timbalai Projection. Plot the Timbalai point recorded from the GPS.
  

Add these layers to a mapper. Do the points overlay? If not you know there is something wrong with either the coordinate you're reading in the GPS OR there is something wrong with the projection(PRJ)  Mapinfo.

As an additional assist try using an independent tool for converting lat\long WGS84 to Timbalai.

This online calculator http://cs2cs.mygeodata.eu/ makes use of the open source application cs2cs (coordinate system to coordinate system) and supports nearly all datums and projections world wide. See attached image.

Lastly approach an organisation like JUPEM and buy a set of coordinates for an Standard Bench Mark(SBM) in your area. Often these will have WGS and projected coordinates. You could use this as yet another calibration point.You may even be able to specify the coordinates you want supplied for the mark.

In fact JUPEM can, for what appears a very small fee, provide everything you need to work out what's wrong with your data conversion.

http://www.jupem.gov.my/index.php?action=produk-geodetik-tanda-aras SBM  RM 5.00

http://www.jupem.gov.my/index.php?action=perkhidmatan-geodetik-tranformasi-koordinat coordinate conversion RM 4.00 per point.

Andrew

On Wednesday, 4 May 2016 23:47:30 UTC+10, rahman aliah wrote:

[ZamboRA Boms]

Andrew,

Yup, i am agree with you, and the basic principle is good, and I wish to thank the explanation from you,

this is the case, I attach a file to the original result is a projection vector long / lat WGS84 "" Tenement_LongLatWGS84.rar "and raster files that I've registers corresponding projection" Register_Raster_Timbalai.rar "which in his legend there BRSO timbalai 1948, after I ovelay right, there seems to be a difference.

The problem that I face, please enlightenment from experts MapInfo

Thank you in advance

Regards

Rahman.A

[college.atlas]

Rahman,

I've had a look at your data.

I have to ask, how sure are you that your scanned plan is accurate?

Just because the image has coordinates on it doesn't make it right. I learned that the hard way about 25 years ago.

As I said first principles. I took a couple of your points and plotted them using an independent online tool with independent reference maps. See attached image.

To me your Coal Tenements and GPS points look like they line up with the independent map.

The RASTER image looks very suspect. Or at least he registration or projection details.

There are lots of online tools like GoogleMaps, Open Street Maps you can use to do some gross checking if your base data is in doubt.