A bit more Gallus in the Eclogues

[falmouth]

me tamen urit amor; quis enim modus adsit amori? (Ecl. 2.68)

si quis forte meam cupiet violare puellam

  illum in desertis montibus urat amor

CIL 4.1645 = CLE 953

1. For the suggestion that Ecl. 2 is substantially influenced by Gallus: see Du Quesnay (1979) 35-69, 206-21; Monteleone (1979) esp. 29; Lipka (2001) 91-3. At a general level, it seems to transplant elegiac motifs to the bucolic setting (rejected love, the rival etc.) . At a specific level:

(i) Monteleone shows that Ecl. 2.1 'formosum pastor Corydon ardebat Alexin' (first line) is connected with Prop. 1.20.52 (last line) 'formosum Nymphis credere visus Hylan'; cf. also Ecl. 10.18 'et formosus ovis ad flumina pavit Adonis'.

(ii) 'vestigia lustro' Ecl 2.12 from Gallus' adaptation of Callimachus' Acontius and Cydippe (cf. Aristaenetus Ep. 1.10.13-15)? 

(iii) Ecl. 2.23 cf. Prop. 3.15.41f, a common source in Gallus; a line ultimately looking to Euphorion?

(iv) Ecl. 2.26 'non ego Daphnin / iudice te metuam' - Gallus Fr. 2 Courtney 'non ego, Visce / ... Kato, iudice te vereor'

(v) Shared features with Hor. Epod. 11 (as to that poem and Gallus, cf. Luck (1971))

(vi) Ecl. 2.1 connected with Phanocles' Orpheus, Orpheus being an important figure for Gallus (cf. Ecl. 10 'Hebrus' and Geo. 4; and cf. Ecl. 6.66ff, re the Orphic power of Hesiod/Linus' pipes)

(vii) Ecl. 2.3 a 'schema Corneliana'

(viii) Ecl. 2.34 cf. Tib. 1.4.47f; Ecl. 10.17

It is reassuring as to Monteleone and Du Quesnay's instincts that they saw Gallus here, before the publication of Gallus Fr. 2, which provided a clear link (point (iv) above) (and also Du Quesnay saw in 'domini' (Ecl. 2.2) a hint of the elegiac 'domina', without knowing that Gallus had used that word - cf. again Gallus Fr. 2)

2. For the suggestion that CIL 4.1645 is a near or exact quotation of Gallus - see Lee (1982) 124; (1990) 132 on Tib. 1.6.51-2; Kennedy (1987) 52; Cairns (2006) 137; Fabre-Serris (2008) 91. 

(i) 'in desertis montibus' is the sort of surroundings we find Gallus in Ecl. 10; cf. e.g. Prop. 1.18 and, generally, Cairns (2006) on 'wild surroundings' in Gallus).

(ii) there seems to be some close relationship with Tib. 1.6.51-2

3. Bringing the two threads together, I suggest that Ecl. 2.68 is influenced by Gallus, here to be identified with CIL 4.1645. That is to say, the resemblance between Ecl. 2.68 and CIL 4.1645 should be seen as (i) further evidence of the influence of Gallus on Ecl. 2; and (ii) further evidence that CIL 4.1645 is a quotation from Gallus [1].

4. The point of resemblance is between 'montibus urat amor' and 'me tamen urit amor'. The resemblance between 'urat amor' and 'urit amor' is obvious; less obvious, but still distinct, is the sound echo of 'm' and 't' in 'montibus' as compared with 'me tamen'.

5. That Ecl. 2.68 in its entirety is adapting Gallus is suggested by:

(i) the resemblance between 'quis enim modus adsit amori' (Ecl. 2.68) and '"Ecquis erit modus?" inquit "Amor non talia curat" (Ecl. 10.28) which appears to play off the elegiac assertion 'amor' has no 'modus'.

(ii) the striking resemblance in structure between 

'me tamen urit amor; quis enim modus adsit amori?' (Ecl. 2.68)

and

'omnia vincit amor, et nos cedamus amori' (Ecl. 10.69)

(with the repetition 'amor... amori' appearing in identical positions - cf. Clausen ad  2.68 'for the shape and balance of this line cf. Ecl. 10.69').[2]

6. Returning to the respective phrases 'montibus urat amor' and 'me tamen urit amor', there is reason to believe that 'uro' is Gallan vocabulary. Cf., in particular,

sive illam Hesperiis, sive illam ostendet Eois

uret et Eoos, uret et Hesperios.

Prop. 2.3.43-4 (where Gallan influence is established by comparison with Ov. Am. 1.15.29-30; Ov. AA 3.537) cf. Courtney (1993) 261.

and

amore, qui me praeter omnis expetit

mollibus in pueris aut in puellis urere

Hor. Ep. 11.3-4 (where Gallan influence was convincingly asserted by Luck (1971) and where one might even suggest that Horace has CIL 4.1645  itself in mind 'amore ... mollibus... urere' cf. 'montibus amor urat'). [3]

7. The most persuasive point, however, I think, is that the suggestion allows one to see an aspect of Vergil's literary joke in action: 'me tamen urat amor' is half a pentameter at the beginning of a hexameter. Then 'modus' is playing off the double meaning 'limit' / 'metre'. So Vergil virtually quotes a half-pentameter of Gallus and continues by implying 'since this is the *metre* of love [poetry]'. The effect is perhaps heightened by the heavily spondaic feel of the preceding line ' Ecl. 2.67 'et sol crescentis decedens duplicat umbras.' [4] facilitating the temporary illusion of elegiac couplets. 

[1] My own view is that CIL 4.1645 is a more or less exact quotation of Gallus (just as other Pompeian graffiti have exact quotations of e.g. Vergil, Propertius and Ovid), which will in part be supported by what follows). But the arguments could support a lesser conclusion that CIL 4.1645 adapts Gallus. 

[2] The points here support the case that Ecl. 2.68 is constructed from more than one reminiscence of Gallus' poetry, one of which is CIL 4.1645 - that would, of course, be consistent with Vergil's usual practice in allusion. Calp. Ecl. 2.92 'carmina poscit amor, nec fistula cedit amori.' is similarly shaped, but probably derives directly from Vergil rather than Gallus.

[3] 'Me miserum! certas habuit puer ille sagittas / uror, et in vacuo pectore regnat Amor' Ov. Am. 1.1.25-6 might also be related to CIL 4.1645 - NB this is, in effect, the first couplet of Ovid's actual Amores - he's not in love until Amor strikes him. NB2 'vacuo' would play off 'desertis' in CIL 4.1645.

[4] Cf. Ecl. 10.73-6.

[John Van Sickle]

By context I mean the Gallovatic web adumbrated by Keith Dix,

that embraces eclogues 3, 5, 6, & 10, with links to 4, 7, 8 if not 9:

vatic singers [ecl. 3], vatic voice [ecl. 4], Mopsus (ecl. 5], winner in the contest in the Grynean grove retailed by Gallus from Euphorion,

the epos signaled in ecl. 6 . . ..

In other words,

the staws clutched in eclogue 2 might become more material in a wider weave.

---

From: mant...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mant...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of falmouth
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2011 6:14 AM
To: mant...@googlegroups.com
Subject: VIRGIL: A bit more Gallus in the Eclogues

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[falmouth]

The proposition that Gallus' poetry is ubiquitous in the Eclogues is
one I'd v. much agree with. But to the extent that it's provable at
all, I think the proof can only be found in the minutiae - to adopt
your, and Vergil's and Gallus(?)' metaphor, since the 'carmina' are
'negata', we can only hope to grab the odd 'gracili ... hibisco'.

In v. broad sketch, I'd say lots of Gallus in Ecl. 2, 6, 10; some in
Ecl. 5, 8 and 9.

I do not think that Gallus wrote a poem on the Grynean grove [1]: this
is, I suggest, as Lyne (1978) 186 nearly saw, Vergil's joke. Apollo's
sufferings in love (e.g. Hyacinthus; Daphne etc. - everything that
e.g. Alexander Aetolus will have written about, in the Euphorionic/
Parthenian erotic pathema register) undoubtedly formed part of the
material that Gallus raided first or second hand: but to suggest that
Gallus should write about Apollo's rape of the Amazon Gryne [1] (NB
Gallus is to relate the *origo* of the Grynean grove, not what
Euphorion seems to have written according to Servius) must be a
hilarious joke at the expense of Gallus' positioning vis-a-vis his
domina, Lycoris (note the Apollonian derivation - Lycoreia, cf. Delia,
Cynthia): i.e. submissive servitude like a Milanion; lovesick moping
like an Acontius. It is the single story which would be most utterly
anathema to the atmosphere of Gallus' poetry. But Vergil suggests,
this would be progress for Gallus...!

Of course, the grove that most delighted Apollo would always be Delos,
never, except in Vergil's tendentious suggestion, the Grynean grove -
cf. Callimachus Hymn 4.269-70 ~ Ecl. 6.72; cf. the poem which
Parthenius wrote which contained the word Gryneios (just a throwaway,
learned epithet in Parthenius?) was concerned with Delos.

Vergil's whole account of Gallus' poetic initiation (and, possibly,
generic aspirations cf. Prop. 2.10.25-6), while clearly grounded in
Gallus' poetry, doubtless has a considerable element of deformazione -
what is Hesiod doing with pipes (not a lyre)? why does Hesiod/Linus
have Orphic powers? Gallus is 'errantem' ... like a lovesick cow (Ecl.
6.52 - cf. 'erro' elsewhere in the Ecl.s)...!

[1] Servius does not say he did; Vergil does not say he had, but that
he should. Serv. ad Ecl. 6.72 'hoc autem Euphorionis continent
carmina, quae Gallus transtulit in sermonem latinum: unde est illud in
fine, ubi Gallus loquitur "ibo et Chalcidico quae sunt mihi condita
versu carmina" is saying two things (i) that Euphorion wrote about the
Grynean grove (the prophesying contest); and (ii) Gallus adapted
Euphorion (...generally rather than specifically). The latter point
has been imported, it seems, from a comment originally attached to
Ecl. 10.72. If Gallus' crowning glory had been a poem about the
Grynean grove, there would be more trace of this.
[2] 'iuxta hanc nemus est Gryneum, ubi Apollo colitur: qui traditur
ibi Grynem Amazonem stuprasse' Serv. ad Aen. 4.345

On Mar 22, 12:40 pm, "John Van Sickle" <JVSic...@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
wrote:

> Groups "Mantovano" group. To post, send email to mantov...@virgil.org.

[John Van Sickle]

so you nix Dix?

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[falmouth]

On the Grynean grove, yes...; on the answer to the riddles, maybe.

Dix's main concern, I think, was to give the answers to the riddles; he took the existence of a Gallan poem on the Grynean grove for granted. While I disagree as to the latter, that doesn't necessitate disagreeing as to the solutions to the riddles, and in many ways, Dix's solution to those is attractive.

Dix's argument (I hope I've done reasonable justice in this summary):

(1) The answer to Ecl. 3.106-7 'Dic quibus in terris inscripti nomina regum / nascantur flores, et Phyllida solus habeto.' is Hyacinthus.

(2) Phyllis also refers to a plant aetiology; Euphorion mentioned or may have mentioned Phyllis.

(3) Euphorion wrote about Hyancinthus.

(4) Euphorion wrote about the Grynean grove; the Grynean grove was a locus amoenus ('arboribus... gramine... floribus' in Serv.)

(5) Euphorion may have used a description of the flora of the Grynean grove to give some plant aetiologies (a surmise from (4) alone). This may have been where Euphorion wrote about Phyllis and Hyacinthus.

(6) Ecl. 10.37-43 again link Phyllis, Hyacinthus and 'the grove' (by which Dix means the Grynean grove)

(7) The answer to to Ecl. 3.104-5 'Dic quibus in terris—et eris mihi magnus Apollo— / tris pateat caeli spatium non amplius ulnas.' is the shield of Ajax (cf. Schol. Bern. and Philarg. ad loc.), query to be identified with Achilles' shield

(8) Thus, both solutions refer to Ajax

(9) Pausanias refers to 'linen breastplates' hanging in the Grynean grove => Dix, says, the shield of Achilles hung in the Grynean grove.

(10) The poetic contest between Damoetas and Menalcas is comparable to the prophetic contest of Calchas and Mopsus.

As to which:

(1) Must be right.

(2) May be right, but the most famous treatment of the Phyllis and Demophoon myth seems to have been Callimachus': cf. how Ovid Her. 2 seems to advertise dependence upon the Aetia (cf. Barchiesi (1992); Knox (1995)).  

(3) Is correct - fragments survive.

(4) There's no particular reason to disbelieve Servius' information as to Euphorion, so, probably right.

(5) Is a (wild) guess. Nothing indicates that Euphorion's treatment of Hyacinth came in a description of a locus amoenus [1], still less that it came in a description of the Grynean grove. There are countless such loci amoeni in Greek and Latin literature. The evidence, such as it is, indicates the contrary: Euphorion's Hyacinth seems to have been a distinct poem in its own right (see Fr. 43 Powell - a line which, incidentally, Gallus probably translated given Prop. 2.34.91-2) and Fr. 40 Powell may actually be the first words of that poem. Dix's argument tries to fit Hyacinthus into a poem whose subject is the Grynean Grove (i.e. one of a number of plant aetiologies), but if that were right, the poem would not be called Hyacinthus (as the poem dealing with Hyacinthus seems to have been). Equally, nothing indicates that Euphorion's treatment of the Phyllis myth (if he did so at all) came in a description of a locus amoenus, still less that it came in a description of the Grynean grove.

(6) Ecl. 10 could link Phyllis (who is not here or at Ecl. 3 explicitly the Phyllis of the Greek myth although the reference to her in Ecl. 5 suggests the connection) and Hyacinthus. But it hardly links either to 'the [sc. Grynean] grove': i.e. Dix takes Ecl. 10.42-3 "Hic gelidi fontes, hic mollia prata, Lycori;  hic nemus; hic ipso tecum consumerer aeuo" as referring to the Grynean grove simply on the basis of the single word 'nemus'. That 'nemus' is in Arcadia in Ecl. 10. Propertius e.g. uses the word 'nemus' 8 times, never to refer to the Grynean grove, two or three times to refer to the Heliconian grove (Prop. 2.14.3-4; Prop.3.1.1-2?; Prop. 3.3.41-2) which Gallus will certainly have described. If we must take 'nemus' in Ecl. 10.43 to refer to a specific grove described in Gallus' poetry (and I don't see one does have to), there is a far more appropriate candidate: Aelian 13.1 '[Atalanta] established herself in the highest mountains of Arcadia, where there was a well-watered glen with big oak trees, also pines with their deep shadow. What harm does it do us to hear of Atalanta's cave, like Calypso's in the Odyssey? At the bottom of the defile was a large and very deep cave at the entrance protected by a sheer drop. Ivy encircled it, the ivy gently twined itself around trees and climbed up them. In the soft deep grass there crocuses grew accompanied by *hyacinths* and flowers of many other colours, which can not only create a feast for the eye; in fact their perfume filled the air around. In general the atmosphere was of festival and one could feast on the scent. There were many *laurels*, their evergreen leaves so agreeable to look at, and vines with very luxuriant clusters of grapes fluorished in front of the cave as a proof of Atalanta's industry. A continuous stream of water ran by: pure in appearance and cold, judging by the touch and the effect of drinking it; it flowed in generous and lavish quantity. This very stream served to water the trees already mentioned.' Here is a grove in *Arcadia* ('Parthenios ... saltus') with hyacinths, laurels (compare, Ecl. 3.63 'lauri et suave rubens hyacinthus') and a stream; and we know that Gallus did treat the Atalanta/Milanion myth. For other reasons (including the relationship between Euph. Fr. 43 and Prop. 2.34.91-2), I think that it's likely that Gallus did treat the Hyacinthus myth, but not in a poem on the Grynean grove.

(7) Is not unattractive, but the answer 'the roll of Aratus' Phaenomena' [2] is also not unattractive. In particular, the answer Hyacinthus to Menalcas' riddle has been prepared not only by 'suave rubens hyacinthus' (Ecl. 3.63) but also by 'qui legitis flores' (whoever picks/reads flowers) (Ecl. 3.91). We expect the answer to Damoetas' riddle to have been similarly prepared: Ecl. 3.60 'Ab Iove principium Musae' translates the first line of Aratus' Phaenomena (or more proximately repeats Cicero's translation of it 'Ab Iove Musarum primordia'). Perhaps, also one might argue that the intervening lines contain references to constellations e.g. 'Taurum' (Ecl. 3.86); 'Anguis' [=Draco] (Ecl. 3.86) and 'Aries' (Ecl. 3.95)? NB also that Damoetas appears in Theoc. Id. 6, addressed to Aratus.

(8) Is the most attractive thing about Dix's pair of solutions, but Dix's solutions does not need to involve the Grynean grove. Nothing that we know of connects Ajax with the Grynean grove. 

(9) The descriptions in Pausanias and Varro are intriguing, but it is a big leap from the general (linen breastplates) to the particular Achilles/Ajax's shield and, in fact, it seems to me that the references in Pausanias / Varro point against any such guess: for if it was really thought that Achilles/Ajax's shield resided in the Grynean grove, surely Pausanias and Varro would have mentioned that - as being of far greater signficance - rather than linen breastplates (or chains in Varro).

(10) Singing contests are traditionally bucolic - singing contests are not prophesying contests (nor is this one). Exchanges of riddles are also not prophesying contests. In any event, we seem to know what the key contest in the Grynean grove was (the number of fruit on a particular tree) (presumably, given that the contest was between *prophets*, the answer had to take into account the future as well, thus the correct answer may have been 'countless').

 

In general, I repeat the points which I made in my earlier post - the suggestion that Gallus should recount the 'origo' of the Grynean grove (i.e. Gryne+Apollo) is just so neatly aimed against the tone of Gallus' poetry and his Apolline mistress, Lycoris, that I am convinced that it is V.'s joke at G.'s expense. This fits in with my own view of Silenus' song in general as being a succession of googlies and doosrahs.  

[1] The suggestion that a description of a locus amoenus could have been the setting for such flower/tree aetiologies is not unattractive in itself: in particular, Dix could have supported it by reference to the grove in Ov. Met. 10 and that in [Verg.] Culex. But to do so, would have been to highlight that neither of those groves is or appears in any way related to the Grynean grove.  

[2] I haven't read Hofmann's article which apparently proposes this solution, but anticipate that his argument rests on similar points to that which I mention. 

 

[John Van Sickle]

well, I love the acribeia sine acrimonia:

that Virgil means wit with regard to Gallus must be the case & works however one chooses to imagine G's works.

Now back to grading papers.

---

From: mant...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mant...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of falmouth

Sent: Friday, April 01, 2011 12:13 PM
To: mant...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: VIRGIL: A bit more Gallus in the Eclogues calls for context

--

[John Van Sickle]

The trees proliferate.
Give us a derwydd,
in this case to remind
about the forest framing the trees.
To that wise,
herewith this recent essay,
with its reproof of Ross,
Rumpke,
Conte,
et al.

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/classics/jvsickle
http://www.flickr.com/photos/photophorica/collections/

-----Original Message-----
From: mant...@googlegroups.com on behalf of falmouth
Sent: Fri 2011-04-01 6:12 PM
To: mant...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: VIRGIL: A bit more Gallus in the Eclogues calls for context

On the Grynean grove, yes...; on the answer to the riddles, maybe.

Dix's main concern, I think, was to give the answers to the riddles; he took
the existence of a Gallan poem on the Grynean grove for granted. While I
disagree as to the latter, that doesn't necessitate disagreeing as to the
solutions to the riddles, and in many ways, Dix's solution to those is
attractive.

Dix's argument (I hope I've done reasonable justice in this summary):

(1) The answer to Ecl. 3.106-7 'Dic quibus in terris inscripti nomina regum
/ nascantur flores, et Phyllida solus habeto.' is Hyacinthus.
(2) Phyllis also refers to a plant aetiology; Euphorion mentioned or may
have mentioned Phyllis.
(3) Euphorion wrote about Hyancinthus.

(4) Euphorion wrote about the Grynean grove; the Grynean grove was a *locus
amoenus* ('arboribus... gramine... floribus' in Serv.)

(5) Euphorion may have used a description of the flora of the Grynean grove
to give some plant aetiologies (a surmise from (4) alone). This may have
been where Euphorion wrote about Phyllis and Hyacinthus.
(6) Ecl. 10.37-43 again link Phyllis, Hyacinthus and 'the grove' (by which
Dix means the Grynean grove)

(7) The answer to to Ecl. 3.104-5 'Dic quibus in terris-et eris mihi magnus
Apollo- / tris pateat caeli spatium non amplius ulnas.' is the shield of

'[Atalanta] *established herself in the highest mountains of Arcadia, where

there was a well-watered glen with big oak trees, also pines with their deep
shadow. What harm does it do us to hear of Atalanta's cave, like Calypso's
in the Odyssey? At the bottom of the defile was a large and very deep cave
at the entrance protected by a sheer drop. Ivy encircled it, the ivy gently
twined itself around trees and climbed up them. In the soft deep grass there
crocuses grew accompanied by *hyacinths* and flowers of many other colours,
which can not only create a feast for the eye; in fact their perfume filled
the air around. In general the atmosphere was of festival and one could
feast on the scent. There were many *laurels*, their evergreen leaves so
agreeable to look at, and vines with very luxuriant clusters of grapes
fluorished in front of the cave as a proof of Atalanta's industry. A
continuous stream of water ran by: pure in appearance and cold, judging by
the touch and the effect of drinking it; it flowed in generous and lavish

quantity. This very stream served to water the trees already mentioned*.'

--

[falmouth]

Much food for thought there. 

Three miscellaneous points, I'd pick up:

(1) Does Mopsus in the Eclogues strengthen Dix's argument as to the wider significance of the Grynean grove (i.e. because that had a Mopsus and a Calchas)?

(2) Arcadia and Vergil v Arcadia and Gallus

(3) Callimachean poetics in Eclogue 6

(1) Does Mopsus in the Eclogues strengthen Dix's argument as to the wider significance of the Grynean grove (i.e. because that had a Mopsus and a Calchas)?

(1) Dix didn't deploy this point but it does provide incidental support the idea that the Grynean grove had indeed become significant in Latin poetry. The name Mopsus doesn't appear in bucolic before Vergil, so far as we know. 

But there is a possible alternative explanation for Mopsus - Menalcas at Ecl. 5.10f asks him to sing 'aut Phyllidis ignis / aut Alconis habes laudes aut iurgia Codri'. There is a compelling argument  that Codrus signifies Messalla -  Nisbet (2002) is Robin Nisbet "A Wine-Jar for Messalla: Hor. Carm. 3.21" in "Traditions and Contexts in the Poetry of Horace", ed. Woodman and Feeney, Cambridge 2002 (cf. ('sober scholars have approved the the idea that 'Codrus' in [a fragment of Valgius] is none other than Valgius' patron [Messalla].' Hollis (2007)), part of the argument being that Mesalla, writing bucolic poetry in Greek perhaps contemporaneously with or earlier than Verg., seems to have advertised his poetry as savouring of Attic style - 'carmina cum lingua tum sale Cecropia' ([Verg.] Cat. 9.14), Codrus on Nisbet's argument is a reference to the legendary king of Athens *who dressed up as a shepherd*. Perhaps, Mopsus has related significance - i.e. relating to 'Mopsopus', another legendary king of Athens - cf. in particular, Tib. 1.7: Sic venias hodierne: tibi dem turis honores / Liba et Mopsopio dulcia melle feram.' addressed to Messalla (cf. Call. Fr. 709 Pfeiffer (Mopsopia = Attica) and, indeed, Euphorion's poem entitled 'Mopsopia'): i.e. one might say that Mopsus, himself, is, perhaps among other things, a mask for Messalla. Perhaps, 'Alconis' in 'Alconis ... laudes' could be intended to gloss 'Valerius' by reference to Greek ἀλκή? 

 

(2) Arcadia and Vergil v Arcadia and Gallus

(2) We know since e.g. Schmidt, Kennedy and Jenkyns that the landscape of the Eclogues generally is not Arcadia. Perhaps, Kennedy takes the reverse point too far when he says that Arcadia should be associated with Gallus' poetry rather than Vergil's, but I think that this is more right than wrong - despite the fortuitous association of Arethusa with both Sicily and Arcadia. The negative point which Jenkyns stresses is important - if Arcadia was strongly associated with Vergil one would expect some awareness of that to be detectable in the Vergilian commentators and e.g. Calpurnius Eclogues. Also, important, is that we seem to be meant to feel the geography and atmosphere of Eclogue 10 as being quite different from that of the other Eclogues (Damon's song in Eclogue 9 also excepted).

Prior to publication of the Eclogues, it seems that Arcadian myths had already become important in Latin poetry. 

One thinks in particular of the Milanion and Atalanta myth (set in Arcadia), which Gallus seems to have treated as programmatic before, at the latest, the composition of Eclogue 10.  

We also seem to have lost some important Latin treatment of the Pan and Syrinx myth (again, presumably set in Arcadia): glanced at in Ecl. 2 (where Du Quesnay (1977) thought this reached Vergil from Philetas via Gallus). Can one take the case further that such a treatment might have been Gallus'? Ovid at Met. 1.689ff tells it as if it is already a hackneyed story - Argus falls asleep before Mercury is able to finish the story (Met. 1.700 'restabat verba referre...' and 1.713-4 'talia dicturus') and presumably that is why Mercury has chosen this story. 

Note the resemblance of the opening words 'tum deus "Arcadiae..."' (Met. 1.689) to 'Pan deus Arcadiae' (Ecl. 10.26) (a clever adaptation - Ovid has separated 'Arcadiae' from 'deus' by making it the first word of the direct speech, but keeping everything in the same place in the metre - but is he adapting Vergil (if so, why?) or was Vergil adapting Gallus? Note then, the next words 'gelidis sub montibus' (Met. 1.689) with Tib. 2.4.8 'quam mallem in gelidis montibus lapis' - Gallus again? The preceding line in Tibullus, Tib. 2.4.7 'o ego ne possim tales sentire dolores' resembles Prop. 1.5.1 'Quid tibi vis, insane? meae sentire furores?' (addressed to Gallus, therefore, Gallus again?). Note also that Ovid's Syrinx is among the Hamadryads - 'inter Hamadryades' (a half pentameter?) (compare Ecl. 10.62 and Prop. 2.34.76 'laudatur facilis inter Hamadryades' (the 10th line of a ten line summary of the ten Eclogues); 'inter Hamadryadas' again at Ov. Met. 14.624 - see Kennedy (1982) for an argument that the Hamadryades are particularly associated with Gallus). 

Note also, Servius ad Ecl. 10.26

'quem vidimus ipsi' utrum, quia praesentia numina agrestium, et ipse et fauni: an quia solent numina plerumque se rusticis offerre: unde est "satis est potuisse videri". notandum sane quod ea numina plerumque, quae amaverunt, dicit ad amatorem venire: nam Apollo amavit Daphnen, Pan Syringa, Silvanus Cupressum.

Servius ad Ecl. 10.28

'amor non talia curat' quasi expertus in Syringa loquitur.

Servius on Ecl. 10.26 is particularly interesting - why does Servius identify these particular amatory encounters among the very many of Apollo and the others of Pan (Echo, Luna / the moon and Pitys)? Is it a trace that the earlier commentators identified more particularly what Vergil alludes to - viz. the poetry of Gallus?

And Arethusa and Alpheus is an amatory story as much as (more than?) a bucolic one. It's of the god chasing nymph type (cf. e.g. Apollo / Daphne; Pan / Syrinx; Minos(not a god, but still...) / Britomartis). It's intriguing that Arethusa pops up again in Georgics 4 (as a huntress, with no bucolic association...?) and also that Aristaeus/Eurydice seems to be invented by being modelled on the god-chasing-nymph type scenario; and further that Aristaeus' Arcadian connections have been given an emphasis which was not necessarily demanded by the earlier tradition. Intriguing too that Calliope's song in Met. 5 - where Calliope is emphatically Gallus' Calliope, see Hinds (1987) discussion of Met. 5.344-5 as compared with Gallus Fr. 2.6-7 - reprises the Arethusa / Alpheus story (with Arethusa resembling the Arethusa of Geo. 4 ('quarum dea sustulit alto / fonte caput viridesque manu siccata capillos' Met. 5.574-5).

 

The connection between (i) Parthenius = the mountain in Arcadia so-named because of Atalanta and (ii) Parthenius = the Greek poet who taught both Gallus and Vergil is particularly intriguing - might that provide the key? I.e. could both Vergil's and Gallus' references to Arcadian myths be signals of their debt to Parthenius? Could, indeed, Parthenius have used the Atalanta myth programmatically before Gallus?

(3) Callimachean poetics in Eclogue 6

The below doesn't necessarily cut across your postulation of Vergil proposing a three-tier conception of poetic register, but it's a point which I don't think has ever been properly emphasised, namely how emphatically Vergil goes out of his way to show that Silenus' song is not in accordance with Callimachean precepts: 

inflatum hesterno uenas, ut semper, Iaccho;               15

serta procul tantum capiti delapsa iacebant,

et grauis attrita pendebat cantharus ansa.

Ecl. 6.15-7

1. Compare:

tu satius memorem Musis imitere Philitan

    et non inflati somnia Callimachi.

The metaphor ('inflatum' / 'inflati') that seems to be played with is indigestion - Callimachus' dream (i.e. the Aetia) was cultured and elegant because he wasn't stuffed full. Contrast Silenus. And then, refer back to Ecl. 6.4-5

'uellit, et admonuit: "Pastorem, Tityre, pinguis

pascere oportet ouis, deductum dicere carmen."'

Silenus has not followed Apollo's advice.

2. Callimachus either a teetotaller or, at worst, a drinker only in moderation (in metapoetic terms as well):

* Aet. Fr.178.11-12 Pfeiffer  'For he disliked greedy drinking of unmixed Thracian wine, and preferred a small cup' (of the guest from Icos, whose tastes Callimachus espouses)

* Antipater, AP 11.20 seems to be aimed at Callimachus

φεύγεθ᾽ ὅσοι λόκκας ἢ λοφνίδας ἢ καμασῆνας 

  ᾁδετε, ποιητῶν φῦλον ἀκανθολόγων, 

οἳ τ᾽ ἐπέων κόσμον λελυγισμένον ἀσκήσαντες, 

  κρήνης ἐξ ἱερῆς πίνετε λιτὸν ὕδωρ. 

σήμερον Ἀρχιλόχοιο καὶ ἄρσενος ἦμαρ Ὁμήρου 

  σπένδομεν ὁ κρητὴρ οὐ δέχεθ᾽ ὑδροπότας.

* as can be seen from the end of the Call. Hymn to Apollo 111-3

Δηοῖ δ᾽ οὐκ ἀπὸ παντὸς ὕδωρ φορέουσι Μέλισσαι, 

῾̣̣̓λλ᾽ ἥτις καθαρή τε καὶ ἀχράαντος ἀνέρπει 

πίδακος ἐξ ἱερῆς ὀλίγη λιβὰς ἄκρον ἄωτον.’

Silenus is the opposite - NB especially Ecl. 6.17.

3. Silenus' 'garland' has slipped far from his head: the metapoetical point is obvious. For metapoetic garlands see e.g. the 'serta' of Prop. 3.1.19 'mollia, Pegasides, date vestro serta poetae'.

4. 'attrita' seems to look to Apollo's warning to avoid the 'keleuthous / [atript]ous' Call. Aet. Fr. 1.27-8 (and cf. Antipater AP 7.409.5-6). Lucretius had already rendered '[atript]ous' with 'trita' 'loca nullius ante / trita solo' Lucr. 1.927-8. Silenus' tankard is 'attrita' - an exact aural equivalent but with the opposite meaning. 

[John Van Sickle]

Thanks for so much detail. Now to class, but will ponder.

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From: mant...@googlegroups.com [mailto:mant...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of falmouth

Sent: Friday, April 08, 2011 5:11 AM
To: mant...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: RE: RE: VIRGIL: A bit more Gallus in the Eclogues calls for context

--

[falmouth]

A footnote to the original post:

'egregiam uero laudem et spolia ampla refertis

tuque puerque tuus...

...

sed quis erit modus, aut quo nunc certamine tanto?

quin potius pacem aeternam pactosque hymenaeos

exercemus? habes tota quod mente petisti:               100

ardet amans Dido traxitque per ossa furorem.'

Aen. 4.93-4; 98-101 (Juno addressing Venus)

"Ecquis erit modus?" inquit "Amor non talia curat,

nec lacrimis crudelis Amor nec gramina riuis

nec cytiso saturantur apes nec fronde capellae."               30

Ecl. 10.28-30

On Aen. 4.98, Servius has a note 'SED QUIS ERIT archaismos.' - what is the archaism there? I wonder whether confusion has arisen with a note attached to 'Ecquis erit modus' (Ecl. 10.28) where 'Ecquis' might be called an archaic form (Vergil uses 'ecquis' rather than 'quis' very sparingly)? An allusion at Aen. 4.98 to an elegiac line 'Ecquis erit modus... Amori' would be appropriate given that Juno is addressing Venus and 'her boy' (NB 'her boy' being Amor, but there is also a neat ambiguity evoking her other son, Aeneas). 

 

Ovid too largely avoids 'ecquis'. One exception is Ov. Am. 3.1.15-6

Et prior 'ecquis erit,' dixit 'tibi finis amandi?'

O argumenti lente poeta tui?

Ov. Am. 3.1.15-6

This all suggests to me that 'Ecquis erit modus ... amori'  may have been Gallus' actual words influencing each of the passages discussed i.e. Ecl. 2.68-69, Ecl. 10.28-30, Aen. 4.98-101 and Ov. Am. 3.1.15-6.

Such a Gallan line may have been taken by Gallus from Meleager AP 12.117

‘ποῖ, θυμέ, τρέπῃ;’ Τί δ᾽ ἔρωτι λογισμός;

ἅπτε τάχος.‘ ποῦ δ᾽ ἡ πρόσθε λόγων μελέτη;’

[falmouth]

Re:

"(3) Callimachean poetics in Eclogue 6

The below doesn't necessarily cut across your postulation of Vergil proposing a three-tier conception of poetic register, but it's a point which I don't think has ever been properly emphasised, namely how emphatically Vergil goes out of his way to show that Silenus' song is not in accordance with Callimachean precepts"

I have since seen that Weber makes very similar points in the following article - Weber, C. (1978): 'Gallus’ Grynium and Vergil’s Cumae' ARCM 1 pp. 45-76 at page 55 in particular.