Looking for UDDT

[Germán Solveira]

Hi there everybody!!

It´s been a long time since my last appearance in this group, though I´m an active reader of all the interchanges proposed by each of you. It´s incredible how much you can learn just by looking into the experience some of you share with other members.

In this occasion, I´m writing to ask for some help. We are intending to set some facilities in an remote area of a national park in the central part of Argentina. We consider the best option to try – due to  weather condition, amount of potential users, personnel available and financial resources – is a moldering toilet  with urine diversion.

The problem is that we cannot find any supplier of that type of urinal in Argentina… may be some of you know any…¿?

We can always make some “homemade system”… but taking in count that the whole thing is going to be A NEW EXPERIENCE to each user, we prefer to start with the right foot setting up a nice structure that invite people to use it.

Please, if any of you know someone who sells in south America or that have low rate international shipments, it´ll be appreciate.

Take care…

Germán

 

 

Téc. Gpque. Germán Solveira

Subcoordinador

Móvil corporativo: 03571 15510220
Skype: germansolveira

 

[Geoff Hill]

Dear German Solveira, 

I tried using urine-diversion seats at 3 remote sites in North America during my PhD.  Each of them clogged within days of installation.  The clog was caused by trash, gum, bulking agent, socks, and poop.  The result was a biohazardous goop of material which collected in the urine diversion cup.  As the goop built up over a few days its distance to hanging male genitalia decreased making it very difficult for users to sit on the seat without touching the goop.  I would caution against this form of urine diversion unless users have been well trained (such as in a village, private camp, or residence).

Some visitors were so upset about the nasty goop in the toilet seat that they wrote letters complaining to the park management.  I have asked for copies from one of the park managers I did this research with. The low cost of urine diversion seats is appealing but unless you have some way of educating all visitors to their use and providing them some means of cleaning the clogged urinal catchment, I do not think this project has a high chance of success.

I even tried covering the urine diversion catchment with mesh.  This didn't work for a variety of reasons.

There are four commercial urine diversion systems which have been developed for public use.

Natsol - Wales

Ecosphere - France

Toilet Tech Solutions - Canada

Last I heard from Natsol and Ecosphere, they were not selling their urine diversion systems separately.  

Through Toilet Tech Solutions, I have developed two systems for urine diversion which can be integrated into a wide variety of toilet systems.  One is 99% efficient and mechanically operated (called TTS-Mechanical).  The other is 75% efficient and based on trajectories of urine leaving the body of those standing / sitting (called TTS-Basic).  The system which is 99% efficient produce a fecal feedstock which is low enough in toxic ammonia that it can be consumed by earthworms without the need for bulking agent.  This achieves maximum mass reduction and does not incur the cost of bulking agent procurement.   The system which is 75% efficient may or may not produce fecal matter consumable by earthworms and needs applied research to determine this.

I would be interested in providing the TTS-Basic urine diversion seats at a reduce cost (to any party) in exchange for feedback and long-term monitoring which can be conducted using simple Solvita tests, which I will pay for.  The TTS-Basic is in final stage of patent protection and I can send photographs and descriptions after interested parties sign non-disclosure agreements.

[Germán Solveira]

Dear Geoff:

Thank you very much for you quick response!! And of course for the invaluable information you share…

First of all, some explanations…

The area where the structures are supposed to be places, are in the backcountry but not too far. Meaning that people working in the area can (and in fact are committed to) check and clean the toilet at least every other day. Besides that, registration is mandatory in the entrance of the area, so every trekker can received before and explanation about the correct use of the facility. The amount of users is estimated in 1500 per year, most of them (80%) during summer season.

I just wanted to give you a better perspective in order to allowed you to analyze the whole thing with a  little bit more information. I don´t want to abuse your kindness but is great to hear about others experiences.

About your offer, let me pass it to the people directly involved in the project. As a mother of fact, I used to work in that National Park for years – that’s the reason why I´m still involved in this – but I´m not uncharged anymore…

Thank you very much,

Germán

 

 

Téc. Gpque. Germán Solveira

Subcoordinador

Móvil corporativo: 03571 15510220
Skype: germansolveira

 

[Geoff Hill]

Hi German, 

I tried the seats at a small hut in the Canadian Rocky Mountains.  I was onsite.  I met and talked with everyone and informed them of the proper use.  Signage was posted at the other sites.  The sites were visited every few days by park staff.  They did not enjoy the task of de-clogging the urine diversion system.  All park operators asked the seats be removed.  

You will do what your budget allows.  I am merely providing my experience.  Often times we take short cuts which end up in greater long-term expense. 

If you are operating these toilets in the out-dated concept of a mouldering toilet, into which you dump bulking agent (increasing your waste mass and volume) you will get bulking agent stuck in the urine hole.  It doesn't seem wise to set this up knowing you are creating a hazard and an unpleasant O&M task for your park operators.  Nobody like touching feces or urine and if it can be avoided, I think it should be.

I have reviewed and advanced the understanding on many common waterless public human waste management systems over the last 4 yeas.  

Hill GB, Baldwin S, Lalander C (2013) The effectiveness and safety of vermi- versus conventional composting of human feces with Ascaris suum ova as model helminthic parasites.  Journal of Sustainable Development 6(4).

Hill GB, Baldwin S, Vinneras B (2013) Composting toilets a misnomer: Excessive ammonia from urine inhibits microbial activity yet is insufficient in sanitizing the end-product.  Journal of Environmental Management 119, pp. 29-35

Hill GB and Henry GHR (2013) The application and performance of urine diversion to minimize waste management costs in remote wilderness environments.  International Journal of Wilderness Management 19(1), 26-33.

Hill GB and Baldwin SA (2012) Vermicomposting toilets, an alternative to latrine style microbial composting toilets, prove far superior in mass reduction, pathogen destruction, compost quality, and operational cost.  Waste Management 32(10) 1811-1820.

Geoff Hill, PhD

BC 604.505.3656

www.geoffbhill.ca

On 2013-03-01, at 11:55 AM, Germán Solveira wrote:

Dear Geoff:

Thank you very much for you quick response!! And of course for the invaluable information you share…

First of all, some explanations…

The area where the structures are supposed to be places, are in the backcountry but not too far. Meaning that people working in the area can (and in fact are committed to) check and clean the toilet at least every other day. Besides that, registration is mandatory in the entrance of the area, so every trekker can received before and explanation about the correct use of the facility. The amount of users is estimated in 1500 per year, most of them (80%) during summer season.

I just wanted to give you a better perspective in order to allowed you to analyze the whole thing with a  little bit more information. I don´t want to abuse your kindness but is great to hear about others experiences.

About your offer, let me pass it to the people directly involved in the project. As a mother of fact, I used to work in that National Park for years – that’s the reason why I´m still involved in this – but I´m not uncharged anymore…

Thank you very much,

Germán

 

 

Téc. Gpque. Germán Solveira

Subcoordinador

Móvil corporativo: 03571 15510220
Skype: germansolveira

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De: managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com] En nombre de Geoff Hill
Enviado el: viernes, 01 de marzo de 2013 01:50 p.m.
Para: managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com
Asunto: Re: [Managing Human Waste in the Wild] Looking for UDDT

 

Dear German Solveira, 

 

I tried using urine-diversion seats at 3 remote sites in North America during my PhD.  Each of them clogged within days of installation.  The clog was caused by trash, gum, bulking agent, socks, and poop.  The result was a biohazardous goop of material which collected in the urine diversion cup.  As the goop built up over a few days its distance to hanging male genitalia decreased making it very difficult for users to sit on the seat without touching the goop.  I would caution against this form of urine diversion unless users have been well trained (such as in a village, private camp, or residence).

 

Some visitors were so upset about the nasty goop in the toilet seat that they wrote letters complaining to the park management.  I have asked for copies from one of the park managers I did this research with. The low cost of urine diversion seats is appealing but unless you have some way of educating all visitors to their use and providing them some means of cleaning the clogged urinal catchment, I do not think this project has a high chance of success.

 

I even tried covering the urine diversion catchment with mesh.  This didn't work for a variety of reasons.

 

There are four commercial urine diversion systems which have been developed for public use.

 

Natsol - Wales

Ecosphere - France

Toilet Tech Solutions - Canada

 

Last I heard from Natsol and Ecosphere, they were not selling their urine diversion systems separately.  

 

Through Toilet Tech Solutions, I have developed two systems for urine diversion which can be integrated into a wide variety of toilet systems.  One is 99% efficient and mechanically operated (called TTS-Mechanical).  The other is 75% efficient and based on trajectories of urine leaving the body of those standing / sitting (called TTS-Basic).  The system which is 99% efficient produce a fecal feedstock which is low enough in toxic ammonia that it can be consumed by earthworms without the need for bulking agent.  This achieves maximum mass reduction and does not incur the cost of bulking agent procurement.   The system which is 75% efficient may or may not produce fecal matter consumable by earthworms and needs applied research to determine this.

 

I would be interested in providing the TTS-Basic urine diversion seats at a reduce cost (to any party) in exchange for feedback and long-term monitoring which can be conducted using simple Solvita tests, which I will pay for.  The TTS-Basic is in final stage of patent protection and I can send photographs and descriptions after interested parties sign non-disclosure agreements.

 

 

 

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[Germán Solveira]

Thank you Geoff… crystal clear!!

I´ll contact the people is working in this project, and let them know your comments based in your large expertise.

We´ll be in contact

Have a nice week,

Germán

 

Téc. Gpque. Germán Solveira

Subcoordinador

Móvil corporativo: 03571 15510220
Skype: germansolveira