Low Temperature Alpine Toilets
MR
I am a new member to the group, being spurred into action by the
impending replacement of the toilet system at one of our alpine huts
in New Zealand. The hut is located at 2200m and is in snow 4-5 months
of the year (if we are lucky). The toilets typically freeze a few
times a year during July (southern hemisphere), but temperatures
rarely get too far below freezing. We currently have two flush
toilets in the hut, and a septic tank system with discharge field,
which have reached the end of their usefulness. The current system
discharges treated black water onto rock slopes below the hut, which
is the reason for changing the system given we are in the middle of a
world heritage site.
Options for a replacement system include separating grey water to the
discharge field via a filter (including the existing septic tank), and
dealing with the black water/solids separately. We have been
considering either low water systems that require pump out (by a snow
groomer - were are next to a ski field) or fly out by a helicopter.
Alternatively, a compost system that provides lower end mass could be
carted out, either by pack or barrel.
Usage is currently around 500 bunk nights per year for the 24 bunk
hut, but we would count on at least 1000 for any new design. The main
use is during winter time, and people tend to eat big meals . . . .
My question is what experience do people have on the use of composting
toilets for intermittant use situations, with generally cold
conditions. The hut is powered (this is the only flush toilet and
powered hut we have in an alpine setting in the country - we are not
too much like the European Alps fortunately), but power is turned off
when the hut is unattended. Also, if there is testing that could be
done or would be useful to feed into a larger body of knowledge, then
we would definately be in favour or installing a bit of extra
instrumentation in the system to monitor its performance (temperature,
humidity, mass produced etc).
Personally I am tempted to go for a simple self contained on-grade
compost toilet like a Biolet, and see how is goes in this setting
without having to fully commit to any system in particular. If
nothing else it simplifies access and installation issues, and makes
it more feasible for use in other remote huts without mains power.
Ideally we would like to get people more in touch with dealling with
their 'deposits' so club members having to pack it out the year after
would be good for the awareness factor too.
Thanks for your time and I look forward to adding our experiences on
this forum.
Kind regards
Michael Richardson
David Toole
I can speak to the experience at the Alpine Club of Canada huts
http://www.alpineclubofcanada.ca/
click on alpine huts
You can see we have a few, and many years of experience.
I would recommend not using a composting system at altitude as the decomposition process either doesn't work or is so slow it is ineffective. It is labour intensive as well.
I recommend urine separation. You may have an issue some time during extreme cold periods with the tube freezing so make it large. Guests change the barrels from an inventory put in place during the annual maintenance.
I recommend a helicopter barrel system with annual servicing. We fly fuel in (lights, stove etc) and barrels out. Pretty much a balance.
For a new hut propane is the best fuel source.
We separate grey water using a barrel buried in the ground to provide settling. The barrel is pierced just below the top and the top layer is drained to a gravel field. The system is cleaned each year with the waste going to the human solids waste barrel.
I'm on Skype if you would like to talk.
David Toole
> --
> If you wish to receive a summary of "Abridged Email" of new activity each day, you can do so by going into "Edit My Membership" and select this option.
Geoff Hill
michael richardson
Geoff Hill
Sent from my iPhone
Roger Robinson
Thanks for contacting the group. I am no expert with composting but
have experience with large volume packout.
You may be able to get by using 5 gallon buckets that are lined with
compostable bags. Your use of 24 bunks would possibly indicate a
maximum of say 25-30 uses per day. 30 uses excluding most of the urine
would fill a 5 gallon bucket. Urine diversion is the key to making
this type of inexpensive packout work. One novel approach here would
be to have one toilet room for urine and one room for poo. This would
compel women to use the "urine only" room. The buckets could easily be
managed for removal by snow machine, etc. This simple packout can
freeze which occurs with our similar system (Clean Mountain Cans
"CMC's") on Denali. Hut folks will have to be diligent at replacing 5
gallon buckets though this does not seem to be a problem for the
Mountain House on the Ruth Glacier in Denali National Park. Here they
use the smaller 2 gallon CMC which is also lined and does not have
urine diversion. This smaller 5-10 person hut goes through about one
CMC a day and does not have a care taker. Lining the buckets make for
fast cleaning and if the bags are compostable, not plastic, they can
be composted with the waste.
You can research similar systems use by river folks, here's an example:
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medialib/blm/ak/gdo/pdf_files.Par.89360.File.dat/lnt_toilets.pdf
I hope this helps with your research.
Cheers,
Roger
--
Roger Robinson
Manager: "Managing Human Waste in the Wild"
Mountaineering Ranger, Denali National Park
Become part of the backcountry solution join our Google Group:
<http://groups.google.com/group/managing-human-waste-in-the-wild>
Denali Mountaineering Centennial Celebration:
<https://sites.google.com/site/denalimountaineeringcentennial/>
Sustainable Summits Conference being organized for Sept 9-11, 2013:
<https://sites.google.com/site/sustainablesummits2013/>
Information about the Exit Strategies conference including free podcast
presentation downloads:
<http://www.americanalpineclub.org/p/exit-strategies>
"Human waste is a serious issue affecting our wild places and one we have
the means to solve."
Karen Rollins
Marina_...@nps.gov
I agree that with access, pump out is the best solution. In addition, a
pump out system which also reduces volume is an even better solution. I
have designed systems using Biological Mediation Systems Vault Evaporator.
This is a shallow vault system with forced air (using grid or solar power)
which reduces the volume of waste significantly and therefore reduces
pumping frequency. See the article at:
http://www.nttp.net/resources/trailbuilding/valutevap.html
If you would like more information on systems I've designed using the Vault
Evaporator system, please contact me.
Marina Connors
*******************************
Marina S. Connors, PE
Civil Engineer
National Park Service
Intermountain Regional Office - Denver
12795 W. Alameda Parkway
Lakewood, CO 80228
Phone: 303-969-2838
Fax: 303-969-2063
*****************************
Karen Rollins
<beeshive@telus.n
et> To
Sent by: managing-human-waste-in-the-wild@go
managing-human-wa oglegroups.com
ste-in-the-wild@g cc
ooglegroups.com
Subject
Re: [Managing Human Waste in the
01/12/2012 10:05 Wild] Low Temperature Alpine
AM Toilets
Please respond to
managing-human-wa
ste-in-the-wild@g
ooglegroups.com
Geoff Hill
Others such as Mike in Eldorado have had issues with their BMS composters.
If vehicle access is available and urine cannot be discharged, I agree, pump out with a truck is likely to be easiest, cheapest, least exposure risk during extraction, and low environmental contamination risk.
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone
Geoff Hill
Geoff
Sent from my iPhone
michael richardson
Rodney Garrard
> On 2012-01-10, at 4:58 PM, michael richardson <mcbrichardson@gmail..com>
Geoff Hill
Karen Rollins
Carry-out
User carryout involves the user carrying out his or her own waste in puncture proof, sealable bags. Commercial products for this purpose may contain biologically active substances to break down the waste in the bag and render it eligible for landfill disposal. Urine containers house a substance to gel the liquid, preventing any leakage. Users carry their own waste to an area where ground transportation can be economically used to move waste to a landfill or appropriate sanitation facility.
This method is suitable for individual use away from a roofed accommodation such as single or multi day mountaineering trips. User carry-out is also suitable for low use mountain shelters because of the low cost when the number of uses is low. However, as the number of uses increases, the barrel fly-out method is more economical (see graph below). The breaking point is 208 uses/overnights.
User compliance is key for this practice to succeed. Non-compliance may result in randomly placed waste, which could pose health risks, as well as detract from the beauty of the alpine setting. The problem is becoming more apparent along popular mountaineering routes where use continues to increase. Education is required to encourage users to change old habits, and initially, policing will also be required.
Assumptions:
I also have cost comparisons for incinerating and composting if you are interested.
Geoff Hill
Karen Rollins
Geoff Hill
--
If you wish to receive a summary of "Abridged Email" of new activity each day, you can do so by going into "Edit My Membership" and select this option.
<Carryout vs barrel flyout cost.pdf>
Ben Lawhon
http://www.cleanwaste.com/
http://www.biffybag.com/
Ben Lawhon
Education Director
Leave No Trace Center for Outdoor Ethics
P.O. Box 997, Boulder, CO 80306
1.800.332.4100
P: 303.442.8222 x104
F: 303.442.8217
http://www.LNT.org
Make an impact by not leaving one...
From: Karen Rollins <bees...@telus.net>
Reply-To: <managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Jan 2012 17:46:29 -0700
To: <managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Managing Human Waste in the Wild] Low Temperature Alpine Toilets
If you wish to receive a summary of "Abridged Email" of new activity each day, you can do so by going into "Edit My Membership" and select this option.
On 2012-01-12, at 5:31 PM, Geoff Hill wrote:
What is the source / brand for bag with chemical?
Geoff
On 2012-01-12, at 4:28 PM, Karen Rollins wrote:
Michael,
Below is an excerpt from a document BEES is putting together (to be published on the BEES website later this month). It compares carry-out cost to barrel fly out cost. The carry-out bags used for the cost comparison are the individual ones with biologically active chemicals that breakdown the waste so they can be sent to a landfill not a waste treatment facility. So a little more expensive than collecting in compostable plastic bags. The point is that the individual carry-out system is more cost efficient at low use facilities, but as use increases (above 208 overnights/year), the barrel fly out becomes more cost efficient.
Carry-out
User carryout involves the user carrying out his or her own waste in puncture proof, sealable bags. Commercial products for this purpose may contain biologically active substances to break down the waste in the bag and render it eligible for landfill disposal. Urine containers house a substance to gel the liquid, preventing any leakage. Users carry their own waste to an area where ground transportation can be economically used to move waste to a landfill or appropriate sanitation facility.
This method is suitable for individual use away from a roofed accommodation such as single or multi day mountaineering trips. User carry-out is also suitable for low use mountain shelters because of the low cost when the number of uses is low. However, as the number of uses increases, the barrel fly-out method is more economical (see graph below). The breaking point is 208 uses/overnights.
User compliance is key for this practice to succeed. Non-compliance may result in randomly placed waste, which could pose health risks, as well as detract from the beauty of the alpine setting. The problem is becoming more apparent along popular mountaineering routes where use continues to increase. Education is required to encourage users to change old habits, and initially, policing will also be required.
Assumptions:
The cost of a bag for user carry-out is $3.
One user carry-out bag will accommodate one overnight stay.
120 overnights will fill a 150 litre barrel.
Three barrels can be flown out at one time with a 407 helicopter costing $2,500 per hour and a round trip is 15 minutes.
Costs do not include education plan and policing to obtain 100% user compliance for carry-out.
Costs do not include barrel fly-out staff time, transportation costs to take barrel contents and user bag contents to waste treatment facility and cost to process the waste.
I also have cost comparisons for incinerating and composting if you are interested.
Karen Rollins
BEES Project Director
--
If you wish to receive a summary of "Abridged Email" of new activity each day, you can do so by going into "Edit My Membership" and select this option.
--
If you wish to receive a summary of "Abridged Email" of new activity each day, you can do so by going into "Edit My Membership" and select this option.
Geoff Hill
Sent from my iPhone
--
If you wish to receive a summary of "Abridged Email" of new activity each day, you can do so by going into "Edit My Membership" and select this option.
On 2012-01-12, at 5:31 PM, Geoff Hill wrote:
Kathleen Meyer
Karen Rollins
Assumptions:
The cost of a bag for user carry-out is $3.One user carry-out bag will accommodate one overnight stay.120 overnights will fill a 150 litre barrel.Three barrels can be flown out at one time with a 407 helicopter costing $2,500 per hour and a round trip is 15 minutes.Costs do not include education plan and policing to obtain 100% user compliance for carry-out.Costs do not include barrel fly-out staff time, transportation costs to take barrel contents and user bag contents to waste treatment facility and cost to process the waste.
I also have cost comparisons for incinerating and composting if you are interested.
--
If you wish to receive a summary of "Abridged Email" of new activity each day, you can do so by going into "Edit My Membership" and select this option.
Kathleen Meyer
Karen, hey, in answer to your side email, and for the group . . .
Yes, buy that book! It keeps this old girl charging along on the next six poopy campaigns.
As for the double-bag pack-out products, I can only relay what I know from experience and the many casual reports that come to me. Rather than rate these products, I try to give people enough info to make decisions. In larger degree, I see myself as a cheerleader—there are always different strokes for different folks and situations.
First off, the poop powders are all proprietary recipes similar to NASA’s magic formula that’s been used in the space shuttle. So I guess you have to decide whether the government, as well as the manufacturer, is trustworthy. Also bear in mind that the EPA does not “approve” products. They have guidelines for what can be send to landfills and untreated human waste is not one of them. A company will usually say something like their product is "in line with EPA guidelines.” (If you ever see a product that says “approved by the EPA,” you’ll know they’re full of it.) How well the EPA polices these things is unknown to me. The poop powders basically claim to gel the liquid, neutralize the odor (or at least hit it in the head), and start the fecal matter biodegrading. If anyone’s heard of any actual independent studies, I’d love to know about it.
My personal experience is only with the RESTOP bags that have an outer bag of gas impervious Mylar. They work great, they don’t smell. I’d recommend them (and do) to anyone for their ease of use and pleasantness of packing out. No feedback on the Biffy Bag has reached me. It came on the market just as my new edition went to print and I managed to slip it in. It’s a little bit different design, but also has an outer Mylar bag. I’ve never used the Go Anywhere Toilet Kit (aka Wag Bag), a double plastic bagging system, but often hear complaints about their odor and also that they’ve suffered puncture, or can pop if you happen to sit on the corner of a backpack where one is stashed.
As for the biodegradability of the bagging itself, I’ve heard it can take 6 to 8 months, or more. If anyone has real data from an independent source, please holler, or correct me on any of this.
When we’re living in a more perfect world, we’ll be composting human manure, using it to replenish the soil. I line right up behind Geoff Hill in this respect, zooming out to take in the larger sustainable picture, with the idea to keep reaching for it. I just skimmed the Peepoo bag studies—these conditions are nothing new to me but Holy Crap! reminders are good and it’s a powerful dose of the complexities involved in any kind of change, here sanitation levels in dirt-poor, water-starved regions (before going on your first exciting trek/climb of the year, tie your affluent self in a chair and read just their tables of contents; it will instantly cure any miniscule residual revulsion for personal poop-packing, by means of lifestyle guilt trip)—but I didn’t happen to come across the science of the actual biodegrading into manure. Peepoo, nonetheless, seems headed in an excellent direction.
Some years ago, I visited Joe Jenkins’ place in Pennsylvania and was duly impressed. Cold winters there, and his pile stays hot when it’s below zero F. He’s been at it now for about forty years, brought up six kids on it. He has the science all figured out. Now goes all over the world on his own dime to help communities get started. Watch YouTube clip http://youtu.be/k86rzVGqfEg showing a site that he helped set up (after Haiti’s earthquake) and keeps checking in on.
Back to New Zealand, and backcountries elsewhere. For low-use sites (small Forest Service cabins, fire lookouts, hunting camps, noncommercial river camps, etc), I gravitate toward a Soil Can set-up (using the RESTOP commode bucket, which stands up both to heat and freezing, and a person can sit on it). Can be packed in and out by mule, raft, hiker’s pack frame, sled, snowmobile. If you use potting soil (peat moss is better), then, because no bags are involved, the contents can be dumped into a vault toilet at a trailhead, take bucket home and clean it with a toilet bowl brush. Cheap, easy to assemble, not much water required. Oregon’s BLM is having great success teaching the public that taking responsibility for their own turds is no big deal. And they (the BLM) have added dump chutes to the outside of their vault toilets.
Leaves only one more step—establishing composting sites near trailheads and takeouts.
My conclusion is: For now, get this stuff out of the backcountry however you can convince people to participate, and then remain flexible about where it goes after that. We’re evolving.
Michael, the prices of bag products are often negotiable for larger quantities.
ENOUGH.
Here’s to a New Year of finding no human (or dog) scat along the trail. And sending out some prayers—whatever your kind are—to Africa.
Cheers,
Kathleen
Karen, aren’t you glad you asked! Sorry, I hadn’t planned to write another book.
Geoff Hill
en·zyme noun (from dictionary.com)
Geoff Hill
Roger Robinson
We originally looked at adding Poo Powder to our Clean Mountain Cans
and then disposing the contents in the landfill in the Matanuska
Susitna Borough. Their engineer did not want live human waste disposed
of in the land fill. In our early research (2000-01) we found that the
Poo Powder only stabilized the waste so it made the waste easier to
handle but it did not destroy anything. One other problem with the
Powder was that it would plug up a septic system if discharged in one.
I am not sure if this Powder's chemical make-up has changed but we'll
need confirmation from the disposable bag folks. This would be good
to get more clarification here...
Cheers,
Roger
Kathleen Meyer
Hmmm? I seem to have opened a can of worms big enough to vermiculture all of Kansas.
Perhaps I wasn’t clear, Geoff—I didn’t intend to be promoting backcountry composting “toilets,” as such (over the years, I’ve only witnessed a handful of happy ones myself), but rather the Jenkins’ method using open-air composting bins of human fecal matter, urine, and toilet paper (in conjunction with a cover material) that definitely reach temperatures more than high enough for more than long enough to destroy pathogens. They’re generally household or small community endeavors. The traditional larger operations are married to heavy equipment and fuel consumption; they more often than not produce disgruntled neighbors, compromise waterways, and turn out a product that’s, yes, pathogen-free but full of heavy metals, toxic industry waste, and loads of pharmaceuticals that were all flushed into a city sewer system. The beauty of bin composting is having no water added in the first place.
Of course these small sites require attention. But they also produce a viable product. Dump everything into the cost-mix and they come out ahead. They would be perfectly reasonable located conveniently, like Scat Machines, near trailheads and takeouts. I’m not suggesting a small, unattended pile at every switchback. Under mildly trained supervision, Jenkins’ approach looks about as sane as anything I’ve seen. I don’t claim to be a scientist, but I have a good lay understanding of the subject.
My passion is for budging culturally shame-related toilet sensibilities. For offering empathy to neophytes. For encouraging personal responsibility in the backcountry before conditions reach the stage of needing to be regulated and mandatory. For elevating outback sanitation, preventing watercourse pollution, and valuing wild country aesthetics. Maybe that’s pie in the sky to some, but it’s where my efforts go. Go! Humor and a friendly, so to speak, bedside manner with the bedpan can shift mountains. And, as we all work together, we’re coming closer to having the various pieces to the many puzzles.
Regarding the pack-out bagging products, we do need to hear from them. I’d hate to find out I’ve been promoting unethically-backed advertising.
Geoff Hill
Karen Rollins
Geoff Hill
Karen Rollins
Geoff Hill
Pam & Roger Robinson
This type of dialogue is perfect since it can get out the best
solutions, opinions, studies and search for new answers! I am always
looking for better solutions to managing remote poo and once accepted
practices can change and evolve to make this ever better.
Keep up the good work and idea exchange...
Roger
michael richardson
Geoff Hill
Sent from my iPhone
Geoff Hill
Sent from my iPhone
Kathleen Meyer
Geoff, thanks for elaborating in your latest emails.
To get back to your post of Jan 17th, 12:16:06 . . . (I wrote what follows here that afternoon, but got sidetracked preparing for the winter storms coming in and didn’t get it posted. Interesting difference in Karen’s and my outlook on diapers! Perhaps something to do with my never having had kids.)
____________
I agree, I agree, and I appreciate your personal sharing.
Yep, assessing the pathogen content of each molecule in a batch of poo—if not impossible—is not practical. And I know we’re always stuck with the current public agency codes.
But, tell me that sewage treatment plants and incineration have no drawbacks, no risks. Everything less than perfection involves some risk.
And when change does come, it often arrives out of left field, or grassroots-style from fed-up participants. Forty years ago, no one could have imagined we’d be hauling human crap out of river canyons. The fashionable rise of rafting through the Grand Canyon pushed us to it. After a lot of hands-on-the-pathogens experimenting, we had rudimentary potty boxes—“groovers” (WWII rocket boxes, named for the grooves they imprinted on your butt) lined with plastic garbage bags. Then we had multitudes of bags bulging with feces drenched in caustic blue chemicals. Treatment plants, of course, refused to accept them because of the bagging. Our lovely packages either ended up tossed in a pit on some outfitter’s back forty or—just to curtail the endless driving around with them—flung out of pick-ups on dark nights on lonely stretches of road. But the beaches were clean.
A left-fielder was the 1993 EPA ruling that halted disposal of human waste in landfills (can’t quite remember how it reads). It inadvertently affected river runners and spurred a bevy of inventive souls to design different washable-reusable, RV-dumpsite-compatible, portable toilets.
The excursion train to perfection ends up being more of a milk run. One station where we’re stopped right now is Baby Diaper Purgatory. ”How come disposable diapers with baby poo can go into landfills?” I get that question all the time. “Oh”—a little research, and I’m told—“disposable diapers contain magic poo powder.” Which leaves me to ponder Yeah, well, how well does that work? And if it works, how great is it on babies’ bums?
I, too, fertilize with my own pee (1 part pee to 8 parts water), and I often live with the clutter of poop experiments. Right now, a full Shhh!-it Kit prototype resides on my front porch—one of my more unorthodox, unseemly studies. I’m waiting for the tube to corrode, blow up, or disintegrate.
Geoff, I think we’re on the same path, just out of different schools.
______________
Today’s added thought. We have a great team in this Google Group: you and others on the cutting edge of the science, the rest of us stirring up public delight.
Cheers,
Kathleen
Miki_...@nps.gov
I've been following the recent google group exchange. I was impressed
with your presentation at the 2010 "Exit Strategies: Managing Human Waste
in the Wild Conference" in Golden and I continue to be impressed by your
commitment to this topic. Thank you for being willing to study, in an
in-depth way, a topic that most of us are content to discuss at arm's
length. I don't see you as a pessimist, but rather as a realist. You are
committed to finding answers rather than perpetuating what we heard or what
we THINK we know. As a federal land planner and as one who cares about
wild places and public health/sanitation, please accept my sincere thanks
for your efforts to find environmentally responsible, sustainable, and safe
ways of dealing with human waste in the wild. This is one of the most
important issues "out there", and will become even more important in the
future.
Best regards, thank you, and please keep up the good work.
Miki Stuebe, Landscape Architect/Project Manager
National Park Service, Denver Service Center-Planning
12795 W. Alameda Parkway, P.O. Box 25287
Denver CO 80225-0287
Office Phone: 303-969-2437, Blackberry: 303-319-4416
Geoff Hill
<geoffbhill@gmail
.com> To
Sent by: managing-human-waste-in-the-wild@go
managing-human-wa oglegroups.com
ste-in-the-wild@g cc
ooglegroups.com
Subject
Re: [Managing Human Waste in the
01/17/2012 04:17 Wild] Enzymes, collection bags,
PM pack out
Please respond to
managing-human-wa
ste-in-the-wild@g
ooglegroups.com
and toilet paper (in conjunction with a cover
material) that definitely reach temperatures
more than high enough for more than long
endeavors. The traditional larger operations
are married to heavy equipment and fuel
consumption; they more often than not produce
disgruntled neighbors, compromise waterways,
industry waste, and loads of pharmaceuticals
that were all flushed into a city sewer
system. The beauty of bin composting is
having no water added in the first place.
Of course these small sites require
attention. But they also produce a viable
product. Dump everything into the cost-mix
and they come out ahead. They would be
perfectly reasonable located conveniently,
like Scat Machines, near trailheads and
looks about as sane as anything I’ve seen. I
don’t claim to be a scientist, but I have a
My passion is for budging culturally
shame-related toilet sensibilities. For
offering empathy to neophytes. For
encouraging personal responsibility in the
backcountry before conditions reach the stage
of needing to be regulated and mandatory. For
elevating outback sanitation, preventing
watercourse pollution, and valuing wild
sky to some, but it’s where my efforts go.
bedside manner with the bedpan can shift
mountains. And, as we all work together,
Regarding the pack-out bagging products, we
out I’ve been promoting unethically-backed
Geoff Hill
Karen Rollins
Geoff Hill
Rodney Garrard
From: michael richardson <mcbric...@gmail.com>
To: managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 18 January 2012 1:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Managing Human Waste in the Wild] Enzymes, collection bags, pack out
My passion is for budging culturally shame-related toilet sensibilities. For offering empathy to neophytes. For encouraging personal responsibility in the backcountry before conditions reach the stage of needing to be regulated and mandatory. For elevating outback sanitation, preventing watercourse pollution, and valuing wild country aesthetics. Maybe that’s pie in the sky to some, but it’s where my efforts go. Go! Humor and a friendly, so to speak, bedside manner with the bedpan can shift mountains. And, as we all work together, we’re coming closer to having the various pieces to the many puzzles..
compliance for carry-out..
Geoff Hill
Tønner-Klank L, Møller J, Forslund A et al. (2007) Microbiological assessments of compost toilets: in situ measurements and laboratory studies on the survival of fecal microbial indicators using sentinel chambers. Waste Management, 27:1144-1154.
Redlinger T, Graham J, Corella-Barud V, et al. (2001) Survival of Fecal coliforms in dry-composting toilets. Applied and Environmental Microbiology, 4036-4040.
Holmqvist A and Stenstrom AT
(2002) Survival of Ascaris suum ova,
indicator bacterial and Salmonella
typhimurium phage 28B in mesophilic composting of household waste. EcoSanRes,
Stolkholm Environment Institute, Sweden.
Geoff Hill
Kathleen Meyer
Kathleen Meyer
MacCampbell, Roger L (DNR)
From: managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com on behalf of Pam & Roger Robinson
Sent: Tue 1/17/2012 3:22 PM
To: managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Managing Human Waste in the Wild] Enzymes, collection bags, pack out
Roger Robinson
Good to hear from you! Pam and I are here in Hawaii and glad to be
missing the tough Alaska weather in January.
It looks like you are considering two options, both pack out and vault
toilets. I think both are good solutions especially in questionable
soils next to the ocean. New research in composting in cooler
climates and advancements with the packout design might change your
direction but currently you have chosen good options from what I know.
Packing out waste does take good education and you could begin slowly
by recommending this as an option. It is very important that you
provide receptacles for the bags at the trailheads since most folks
want to get rid of them asap once the hike or float is completed.
Kenai Fjords NP has packout in some places and may be a good resource.
Other folks in the Google Group might have followup comments.
Take care and keep warm!
Roger
>>>>>>> Perhaps I wasn't clear, Geoff-I didn't intend to be promoting
>>>>>>>>> Water Science & Technology-WST | 59.9 | 2009
>>>>>>>>> Peepoo bag: self-sanitising single use biodegradable toilet
>>>>>>>>> Bjo ? rn Vinnera ? s, Mikael Hedenkvist, Annika Nordin and Anders
MacCampbell, Roger L (DNR)
There is sheet of ice outside harbor too! I have three feet in my yard and supposed to rain next week
Should be good surfing there now?
Tx, good suggestions, will start with my own trail crews and outdoor education groups, kayakers etc.
Still working on improving the staffing here, tuff with so many amenities to maintain .
I will contact Kenai fjords too.
Sent from my iPhone