Re: [Managing Human Waste in the Wild] Solar drying outhouse just completed at the Snowbird Hut in Alaska

[John_...@nps.gov]

Thanks roger for all of your efforts
Take care
John Leffel
202 641 0034 - cell
Message sent via blackberry

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  From: Roger Robinson [mhw....@gmail.com]
  Sent: 08/26/2012 09:15 PM MST
  To: managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com
  Subject: [Managing Human Waste in the Wild] Solar drying outhouse just completed at the Snowbird Hut in Alaska

I would like to congratulate American Alpine Club members who have just created an experimental solar drying toilet at the Snowbird Hut in the Talkeetna Mountains, Alaska.  Check out the photos and information at this site:

http://inclined.americanalpineclub.org/2012/08/snowbird-hut-outhouse-tests-new-concepts-in-an-alpine-environment/

For more information from one of the designers and builders, contact: Cindi Squire who is a participant in our Group.

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[michael richardson]

What sort of temperature range is this proposed to work in? There seems to be a lot of hesitation (lack of track record?) in using dehydrating systems over 'wet' systems. Look forward to seeing some of your test results (facts and figures ideally).  Good luck.

[Geoff Hill]

Fantastic!  Very similar to some tests I ran in the Alpine in 2010. I can compile data and share results with the group and wil do so formally at the conference. I found the urine diverting toilet seats able to remove 60% of the excrement mass regardless of climate.  Solar and 110V 1500W dehydration could do a bit more but took lots of extra work or relatively low use (piled poo doesn't dry well). Still didn't burn.  Ecosphere in France have a good dehydrating system. There is a NA commercial dehydrating toilet as well. Can't remember name presently. SWSloo or something. The later would do well to add urine diversion. 

Important to note that the urine diverting seats are likely to clog with toilet paper or erroneous pooping. I have tested these seats in a variety of conditions at a few different remote sites and they all clogged within days to weeks. Rather unsanitary when they do (yucky pond right in the dangle zone).  Need a site operator to clean or clear instructions and a long handled spoon the right shape to reach to the bottom of the cone. 

I have systems undergoing research that divert urine from fecal matter without behavior modification (men can stand to pee) and without any risk of clogging. Ecosphere has developed a system for this as well which is integral for both of their toilet systems. 

Geoff

Sent from my iPhone

[Miki_...@nps.gov]

The (solar) dehydrating toilet that is available commercially in North
America is "the Enviro Loo (ELOO)" (information available at
www.swsloo.com). If I remember right, it was originally developed in
Australia. They had a demo unit at the 2010 Exit Strategies conference.
According to their brochure, "In the initial phase, the system separates
liquid and solid waste as it enters the container via the straight drop
ceramic or poly toilet bowl. Liquid waste drains to the bottom of the
container while solid waste remains on the drying tray. Both the liquid
and solid waste are exposed to a continuous flow of air that's driven
through the unit by the forced aeration ventilation system...."

--------------------------------------------------------------
Miki Stuebe
Project Manager/Environmental Protection Specialist
National Park Service, Environmental Quality Division
P.O. Box 25287
Denver CO 80225-0287
Office Phone: 303-987-6999



Geoff Hill
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[Cindi Squire]

Hello John,

 

The dehydrating system is being used  because of the remote location.  We are using solar warming / venting and air movement to provide the drying of the solid waste matter (which is deposited onto the screen).  We are working at an elevation of 4,680’ with weather conditions that are very wet most of the time in the summer and completely frozen in the winter. Summer temps average 40 – 65 degrees F and  will see temps below zero degrees F in the winter.

 

Because of the remote location and lack of services we needed to use systems that do not require maintenance or any kind of battery/electrical support. The area where the hut is located has experienced 100 mph wind events and the thought of losing solar panels etc.  to the wind was too much of a risk.  So we went completely low tech with the design. 

 

Because the solid waste will need to be flown or packed out, we hope that the dehydrating will allow us to ‘lighten the load’ and remove it with less frequency.

 

Thanks for the thoughts and questions.

 

~Cindi Squire

Hut Mistress~Snowbird Hut

907-242-9753

[Cindi Squire]

Thanks so much Geoff for the encouragement and insight.

 

The privy seat that is being used to initially separate the urine is a huge benefit to this project.  We have a ton of signage to not put the paper down the hole (s) into the system.  We are encouraging the removal and burning of toilet paper rather than putting it down the hole.  The urine ‘catch’ basin is supplied with an 1 ½” drain hole that is covered with a grate to prevent clogging.  Hopefully, this will keep everything from going down the drain hole.  I am expecting possible problems with the drain hose freezing solid with liquid in the winter. Hopefully this can be prevented with a little hot water if it becomes a problem.

 

Here is the link for the bowl separator that is being used.

 

http://www.ecovita.net/privy.html

 

We are also providing a ‘prod stick’ with instructions about knocking the pile over as it grows over time.  Again, low tech, but hopefully effective.

 

Thanks for your questions and your suggestions on the project!

~Cindi Squire

Hut Mistress~Snowbird Hut

 

 

[Tom Hopkins]

Hi Cindy, Geoff,

 

There's a simple solution to the separator getting blocked - you need to install 'scarey green mesh' at 'standard NZ dangle distance' (see attached). This has been working well at Kelman Hut Aoraki Mt Cook National Park since 1994, and has been replicated elsewhere but never beaten. 

 

Dangle distance required may vary depending on ethnic origin.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tom. 

Tom Hopkins

Technical Support Officer - Project/Contract Management Kai Matanga Hinonga/Whakapaihere

Department of Conservation - Te Papa Atawhai

DDI: +64 3 756 9116 | M: +64 27 260 4705

 

Conservation for prosperity Tiakina te taiao, kia puawai

www.doc.govt.nz

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From: managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cindi Squire
Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2012 4:08 a.m.
To: managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Managing Human Waste in the Wild] Solar drying outhouse just completed at the Snowbird Hut in Alaska

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Attention:
This e-mail (and attachments) is confidential and may be legally privileged.

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[Geoff Hill]

Thanks Tom. Any photos? 

What type of maintenance / cleaning is involved?  Work in front country Vaults too? 

Geoff

Sent from my iPhone

<SBZ421 B42112082809040.pdf>

[Tom Hopkins]

Hi Geoff,

 

Photo - not to hand, will try to find one and send it to you.

 

Maintenance - minimal if not non-existant, maybe wave a toilet brush at it once in a while

 

Front country - haven't tried this to my knowledge, generally still total containment at those types of sites. Can't see any reason why not though.

 

Cindi - by the way, nice looking kennel, look forward to trying it out one day. Well done those involved.

 

Tom.

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From: managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Geoff Hill
Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2012 9:55 a.m.

[Cindi Squire]

Tom,

 

Am I allowed to ‘chuckle’ at your comment on dangle distance?  I never knew that this topic was even considered in this type of research (I am trying to type and giggle at the same time~ it does not work).      ;-)

 

Thanks for making my day!

~C

[Tom Hopkins]

Hi Cindi, Geoff,

 

Sorry I have to eat some humble pie, figuring out 'standard dangle distance' is a thing of the past.

 

The urine catchers previously fitted to the toilet down tubes have all been removed, for very much the same reasons you were grappling with. The urine catchers were fitted in conjunction with urinals and drained to a simple disposal field (ref a couple of photos attached from Barron Saddle Hut toilet at Aoraki Mt Cook). The urinals are still in use and still seem to provide an acceptable reduction in the volume of liquids flown out. Not much help for the women, but I guess the reduction in volume depends on the use demographics at your site.

 

Generally our experience follows your research Geoff, separation/diversion results in approx 50% reduction in volume. 

 

Cheers,

 

Tom.

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From: Tom Hopkins
Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2012 8:24 a.m.
To: 'managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com'

Subject: RE: [Managing Human Waste in the Wild] Solar drying outhouse just completed at the Snowbird Hut in Alaska

Hi Cindy, Geoff,

 

There's a simple solution to the separator getting blocked - you need to install 'scarey green mesh' at 'standard NZ dangle distance' (see attached). This has been working well at Kelman Hut Aoraki Mt Cook National Park since 1994, and has been replicated elsewhere but never beaten. 

 

Dangle distance required may vary depending on ethnic origin.

 

Kind regards,

 

Tom. 

Tom Hopkins

Technical Support Officer - Project/Contract Management Kai Matanga Hinonga/Whakapaihere

Department of Conservation - Te Papa Atawhai

DDI: +64 3 756 9116 | M: +64 27 260 4705

 

Conservation for prosperity Tiakina te taiao, kia puawai

www.doc.govt.nz

From: managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com [mailto:managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cindi Squire
Sent: Tuesday, 28 August 2012 4:08 a.m.
To: managing-human-w...@googlegroups.com

Subject: RE: [Managing Human Waste in the Wild] Solar drying outhouse just completed at the Snowbird Hut in Alaska

[Geoff Hill]

Thanks Tom.  Much appreciated.

Geoff Hill

BC 604.505.3656

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