More website stuff!

[Selroth]

Hello all!

I've decided to continue developing my proposal for the website.  I've been working on it since the meeting to help install some features I know we'll need and customize it from the default look and settings.  It still has a ways to go in terms of content (most of which I require the assistance of other people) and some changes with the look and feel.  But, really, I feel like the more energy I put into this the bigger risk of wasting my time if no one likes it.  

So please, take a few minutes to sign up and click around!  Give me your feedback before things get more difficult to change, and help me get some meaningful content there!  I'm also sure there's a few bugs that I need an extra pair of eyes to catch!

http://makerspace.thewestgate.net/

(The domain name is temporary.  If this is the website we go with, then expect it the URL to make more sense)

-Brian

[Carl Swanson]

Looks Great!

Don't waste any time, as all of these sites will be temporary.  Can we use it where it is and just link to it from the makerspacepensacola.com?

Best,
Carl

[CorSec Engineering]

We need to start thinking about a permanent solution. We need something before the 4th. If we pass out a gross of ping pong balls with mackerspacepensacola.com on it then it needs to go someplace that has good information and way to sign up for future info (a news letter was discussed)

I think the current  makerspacepensacola.com is a little dark. We need something that is a clean and inviting modern looking site with lots of info. We could make contacts with some big wigs at Gulf Power or the city and we need to have a web presence that looks professional.

If we want to do a CMS then lets get the ball rolling and decide the one that best fits our needs to we can move on. If not I vote for fleshing out Brian's site with info and using that as our site till we can develop a better solution.

Jonathan Bowen
CorSec Engineering
www.corseceng.com

[Selroth]

Thanks for the reply Carl.

I seriously don't mean to impose, but I don't know why you mean "temporary."  I'm not gearing my site to be replaced, I'm gearing it to be an ongoing project built ontop a solid open-source foundation, of which we may be able to improve their project ourselves (I mean, we're a hackerspace after all, no?)

Not to offend, but I intended my website to be a replacement.  The website currently in place at  http://makerspacepensacola.com/ I find very novice.  While suitable for an initial preliminary website, I wouldn't feel comfortable referring potential sponsors and new members of the makerspace there.

I tried to keep some of the "dark" feel in my version of the website, while also (still) adjusting it to look more professional and welcoming.  It's difficult to do.  However, it wouldn't be too hard to change the theme to something more bright, modern, and welcoming.  I can install and modify virtually any of the themes found here:  http://custom.simplemachines.org/themes/ 

-Brian

[John Butler]

Well, I guess I need to add my two cents as well:

First, we really need a new website with more content up and ready prior to the event on the 4th.

Second, we really need it to be a crisp, clean & professional look so we can pull in interest from potential corporate contributors.

Third, we need whatever we come up with to meet our needs as well for forums, media galleries, documentation, collaboration, etc  (probably some sort of CMS with mods)

Finally, we need content.

I would hope we could all agree to at least those basic points (and we pretty much have in previous meetings).  If so, then we need to get rolling on it, which Brian has so kindly agreed to.

As for the current and the currently proposed sites, I really feel that both are not quite what we need to fulfill the above points.  Take a look at some of our "sister" organizations sites:

http://www.harfordhackerspace.org/

http://brainsilo.org/

http://www.7hillsmake.org/ABOUT.aspx

http://acemonstertoys.org/

and there are tons more to look over on the hackerspace wiki.  The thing is, those give some decent information and I'd feel comfortable sending a potential investor to one of those sites.  We need to have our fluffy, marketing material as a home landing page, and hide the forums and such behind the member section of the site.  Essentially have a public facing site for marketing and disseminating information to the public, and a private section for members to collaborate and share information.  The current dark, themes are cool for us geeks, but I really don't feel they portray a professional image to help inform the public.  

We also need to get our content ready to drop on there as soon as we get something agreeable up, stuff like who we are, what we do, etc.

What do you guys think?

John Butler

[Carl Swanson]

I am not particularly excited about the current "dark" design and I am very flexible with regard to aesthetics.  There are some links I would like to keep on the front page though.  I was actually trying to accomplish the group's goal of getting a forum before a redesign on the site.  That is why I wanted to link Brian's forum that is setup.  If we want another design just send a link to an example or send an html file and graphics.  If we want to move the domain my suggestion is to just move it once to a server that is run at the future space.  It would be appropriate to hear from the majority of the group in regards to changing the domain though.

So there are two reasons to wait and call everything "temporary."  First as I mentioned the group needs to get hardware setup and online at a space.  The second reason is that the current group is small and will probably double.  That transition from founders to members can be very confusing and hazardous and I would like to keep the domain makerspacepensacola.com until that happens.  We can talk further about what we might measure to define that progress at the next meeting or on a forum.  I am happy to link to another domain and would even encourage folks to choose the best design, preferred domain etc.  I will even gladly market another domain for information to the public etc.

I am glad you guys are speaking up about the site and taking initiative and I only want to encourage you.  My one caution is that I have seen website changes dominate member's time and communications.  So please develop in parallel but also please cooperate and help me to make cosmetic changes once in accord with the group goals versus many times in accord with changing attention and individual desires which by the way are welcome and absolutely needed.

Best,
Carl

[CorSec Engineering]

I think the Brainsilo site is perfect. http://brainsilo.org/ The information at least. They seem to have everything laid out nice and explained well. The support us page mentions equipment donations as well as money. The membership setup is good. I'd lean towards that system for us. Location should have embedded maps but no one is perfect.

BTW I have a good bit of experience customizing google maps to do cool stuff. So if we need something more then the standard map let me know.

Their site looks to be wordpress based. Not sure what goes on behind the member login but as a landing page it has all the essential info.

I think we can stick with the makerspace pensacola address and name. Unless someone else has a better idea. Possibly Panhandle Makers or something that stretches beyond Pensacola.

We need to cement that and get a logo formalized before to long as well.

Jonathan Bowen
CorSec Engineering
www.corseceng.com

[Carl Swanson]

These look great and I agree with the need for change and the time table.  The guys in Austin use a wiki type setup - http://atxhackerspace.org/wiki/Main_Page  and the main page is fairly basic.  Pictures of people in the space, Cool logo, basic explanation of how to get involved and expectations, no ads.  I especially like the portland ticker that shows monthly expenses and fundage level.  Staying open source is key as Brian mentioned earlier.  I would especially like to encourage folks to edit their own pages and link to those from a coherent and well designed "pretty" front end.

It might be too late to get permission from enough folks to blackout the site for SOPA.  I will be sure to mention it though.  If you are explicitly in favor or against a  one day black out speak up.

Best,

Carl

[Selroth]

Yay!  Some feedback and direction in what people want!  That's what I wanted to hear!

OK, the bulk of the websites referenced are using Wordpress or similar software, with a blog/"news" as the landing page.  Consider it done.  I can easily integrate WordPress (or something similar) with SMF, and the forums wont be the first thing everyone sees (in fact, that wasn't my intention anyway as that can be customized, but I didn't want a blank page with no content to be the first thing everyone sees).

I'd like to point out that the bulk of the features on my SMF site require membership.  I hate to say it, but I'm getting annoyed that no one has signed up and actually played with it before criticizing it.  But, then again, I suppose the bulk of the feedback I'm getting is the front page and appearance of it, not capabilities and features.  I'll change the theme to something more modern and bright, and tweek it.

Keep in mind that the websites everyone likes has one thing we do not and will not for some time: content.  It looks pointless and pathetic for me to be the only one making topics on there.  We HAVE activity in emails - lets migrate that to the forums.  They're there, they're ready to be used, and I don't foresee any reason why I'd have to nuke the database.  The conversations we're having in email could be the start of building the content we can then manage with our Content Management System.

I apologize again if I'm stepping on anyone's toes, but I'm pretty much going to take this website and run with it now.  I have the energy and motivation to do it, am up for a challenge, and if this is to be successful I have a deadline (Feb 4th) to meet.  Would anyone like to help me?

-Brian

[CorSec Engineering]

I'm going to go ahead and prime the pump for the move to the forum. I posted a question about Drill Press Tapping Attachments.

Check it out.

http://makerspace.thewestgate.net/index.php/topic,7.0.html

Jonathan Bowen
CorSec Engineering
www.corseceng.com

[CorSec Engineering]

I like the idea of a centralized blog for news and updates. We might be able to set it up so that several people can post to it. I know my life gets crazy sometimes and I drop a lot of things because of it. That would allow some backup for important stuff.

I could see a use for a Wiki as well. A repository for the expert knowledge that some of us want to pass on. It would be a good place for tutorials and project build logs. It is an easy way to store the vast amount of information we will most likely collect over time. It takes a bit of time to post and edit but it gives us something to do till we come up with another crazy project to build :)

Jonathan Bowen
CorSec Engineering
www.corseceng.com

[SteveK]

Honestly web design is more an art than a science, so we should leave
it to a couple of people with experience and just trust them. Selroth
and Jon seem really interested so I guess everything's good.

On Jan 17, 11:15 pm, CorSec Engineering <corsec...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I like the idea of a centralized blog for news and updates. We might be
> able to set it up so that several people can post to it. I know my life
> gets crazy sometimes and I drop a lot of things because of it. That would
> allow some backup for important stuff.
>
> I could see a use for a Wiki as well. A repository for the expert knowledge
> that some of us want to pass on. It would be a good place for tutorials and
> project build logs. It is an easy way to store the vast amount of
> information we will most likely collect over time. It takes a bit of time
> to post and edit but it gives us something to do till we come up with
> another crazy project to build :)
>
> Jonathan Bowen
> CorSec Engineeringwww.corseceng.com
>

> On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 10:41 PM, CorSec Engineering <corsec...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm going to go ahead and prime the pump for the move to the forum. I
> > posted a question about Drill Press Tapping Attachments.
>
> > Check it out.
>
> >http://makerspace.thewestgate.net/index.php/topic,7.0.html
>
> > Jonathan Bowen
> > CorSec Engineering
> >www.corseceng.com
>

> >>> website currently in place at  http://makerspacepensacola.com/I find

> >>> very novice.  While suitable for an initial preliminary website, I wouldn't
> >>> feel comfortable referring potential sponsors and new members of the
> >>> makerspace there.
>
> >>>  I tried to keep some of the "dark" feel in my version of the website,
> >>> while also (still) adjusting it to look more professional and welcoming.
> >>>  It's difficult to do.  However, it wouldn't be too hard to change the
> >>> theme to something more bright, modern, and welcoming.  I can install and
> >>> modify virtually any of the themes found here:
> >>>http://custom.simplemachines.org/themes/
>
> >>>  -Brian
>
> >>>  On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 7:47 PM, CorSec Engineering <

> >>> corsec...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> We need to start thinking about a permanent solution. We need something
> >>> before the 4th. If we pass out a gross of ping pong balls with
> >>> mackerspacepensacola.com on it then it needs to go someplace that has
> >>> good information and way to sign up for future info (a news letter was
> >>> discussed)
>
> >>> I think the current  makerspacepensacola.com is a little dark. We need
> >>> something that is a clean and inviting modern looking site with lots of
> >>> info. We could make contacts with some big wigs at Gulf Power or the city
> >>> and we need to have a web presence that looks professional.
>
> >>> If we want to do a CMS then lets get the ball rolling and decide the one
> >>> that best fits our needs to we can move on. If not I vote for fleshing out
> >>> Brian's site with info and using that as our site till we can develop a
> >>> better solution.
>
> >>> Jonathan Bowen
> >>> CorSec Engineering
> >>>www.corseceng.com
>

[John Butler]

I just want to weigh in again to clarify what we are looking for, so can I get some feedback from everyone on what they expect the website to function as?

I have heard wikis, blogs, forums, etc., but what do we want public and what do we want private? Are we expecting all things to be public, or restrict the forums and wikis to private? Making them private gives us "content" for members and maybe could give us a second tier for dues ($x.xx a month for online only membership). Once we determine public vs private, we then have to determine software we are going to use. I, myself, don't want another 2,3 or 4 passwords more to have to sign into each area, so we'd need to have a blog,wiki,forum, etc that all shared authentication. That typically lends itself to some type of cms with modules (joomla, mambo, etc) that we'd want to utilize, and we need to hash that out before spinning our wheels putting something up then switching later.

So, please, everyone weigh in on your thoughts so we can get this figured out today if possible, then get the web guys rolling. We can always build it up on a virtual host and migrate the whole site to a dedicated server later, but it will be much harder to move forum content or other content between applications.....

[SteveK]

The only discussions that should be private are back end book keeping
type stuff, for instance security issues at the makerspace like theft
or perverts.

> >>>>http://atxhackerspace.org/wiki/Main_Pageand the main page is fairly

> ...
>
> read more »

[CorSec Engineering]

The wiki performs one of our main actions. Spreading knowledge. That should not be private. The forum needs to have open and closed areas. Project discussion needs to be open so people can see what we do and get interested. We also need member only stuff for discussing finances or major decisions that don't need to be public knowledge. An Officers only board may be needed so that thinks can be discussed in private without the other members knowing. We might run into some situation where we need to discuss disciplinary action on a member.

As for my involvement, I can give feedback but I'm days away from a massive release and my life will be over for a few days or hopefully weeks. Gotta love 18 hour days...

Jonathan Bowen
CorSec Engineering
www.corseceng.com

[John Butler]

Well, the blog should be used to spread public information as we can "dumb it down" and make it more appealing to the general public.  We could also use the wiki to show how to replicate the project, but I'm thinking the day to day communication of trying to figure out the whole process of a new project should be more in a private forum.  That way, we control what information makes it out and the format.

I hate 18 hour days!  :-P

[Selroth]

Just to throw in some quick points:

I intend only one login per member for all the features.  Sign in once and access everything.  There's technology to do this, and if not it's fairly easy to program.

My site is currently on my VPS which is more than enough for our needs.  I'm happy donating the bandwidth, maintenance, and backups as it is.  However, if we should need or want a new host, transferring everything is easy.  Changing software is difficult, but do-able.

SMF has fully customizable permissions feature.  This means we can show or hide anything from guests.  I understand a good public face is important and I love the idea of free information exchange - I favor having things publically accessible.  But, there will also be members-only areas and staff-only areas.

Now, I'm off to class!

-Brian 

(Sent from my mobile device)

[SteveK]

Ever heard of Dwarf Fortress? The creator uses SMF for his forums. It
can handle a large amount of traffic pretty good. His site has 3
million plus posts easily. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/

> >> >>>>http://atxhackerspace.org/wiki/Main_Pageand the main page is fairly

> ...
>
> read more »

[John Butler]

Has anyone ever used Eggl?  It looks like a very nice collaboration tool.  Could be used for managing groups (projects), blogs, documentation, etc.  I setup an instance of it at http://butlercomp.com/elgg/discussion/owner/41 and started a group for the website and discussion we've been having to kinda test it out.  Kick the tires and see if you guys think it should be one of the tools we use.  I really like the clean feel of it.

John

[Lamar Tillery]

Guys, I've been away from the computer for a few days and I can see
that a lot has happened since then. Brian, you've gotten off to a
great start! (yes, I just registered)

Few thoughts:

public versus private - At some point soon, we're going to have to say
who is a "member" of the space. Is it anyone who shows up to a
meeting? Anyone who registers on the site? I realize that we'll need
to collect dues in the future to cover insurance and space rental,
equipment, and so, so a member will soon be a "dues paying
member" (unless we offer a "starving hacker scholarship" or some
such). Point is, should the the forums, blog, wiki be restricted to
members? It's not an issue when we can count them on two hands, but
if we have a couple hundred energetic geeks in the space, we'll need
to keep track somehow... Might make sense to restrict blog and wiki
entries to members and somehow denote member-versus-non-member on the
public areas of the forum.

Elgg looks interesting. The groups feature would be a cool way to
structure the various interests within the space.

Can SMF email us if we there is activity in a forum of interest? I do
like getting notified of activity in the current Google group.

Website so far: It's a personal preference, but I like a
lighter(brighter) style with dark text. Maybe it's the old eyes...
But, hey, I'm flexible! :)

Finally: a couple of suggestions for the website name. While
makerspacepensacola.com is quite descriptive, it's also quite long.
I know we don't want to tackle too many things at once but the reasons
it comes to mind are: 1) Brian mentioned (and I'm paraphrasing poorly)
that he wasn't sure whether folks from outside Pensacola were welcome
when he first found the site. 2) I noticed that the Durham,NC
hackerspace just changed their name to Splatspace (perhaps for that
reason.) and 3) if you check out the hackerspace wiki, there are few
spaces named [location]space. And some are quite clever. I'll post
the name idea as a separate post...


Again, good work Brian. Great to see all the input from others as
well.

[Selroth]

I've already set up a "Full Membership" group to demonstrate that those who pay a subscription fee (paypal, or an admin can update it manually) are able to gain exclusive permissions/areas in the site.  If we choose to do that.  Either way, the forum itself can be a great tool to automatically track who's a paid member, who's a partial member (just signed up, attended a meeting, but hasn't paid), and can send reminders a few days in advance when payment's due again.  All the variables can be adjusted easily.  Obviously, payment account yet (nor any real group expenses), so it's just for demonstration only.

SMF can email you when there's activity.  You can subscribe to topic notifications (emails on new posts) and/or board notifications (new topics in a board).  You can manage these, and how they are delivered to you (instant, a daily feed, etc) in your account settings.

I'm toying around with the dark theme a bit more, but I plan to install a lighter theme as well.  I'll then default to the lighter theme for guests and the public, but members will still be able to choose which theme they'd like to use.

Shall I invite someone to start off a new thread in the forums on what the name should be?  Perhaps attach a poll to it?  :)

-Brian