Chamber for ABS Printing

[SMT Guy Austin, Texas]

I had curling with ABS regardless of how much hairspray I used.  One of my guys here at the office fabbed this up for me with aluminum extrusions and acrylic.  It's working perfectly now.  Plate is at 105 and no detectable lifting.  I relocated the electronics to outside the enclosure to keep them cool.

Brad

[Paul Leonard]

Very nice looking enclosure. Not a cheap little build, but looks very professional.

Paul

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[SMT Guy Austin, Texas]

Thanks Paul,

I think it was about $60 in extrusions and fittings and about $100 in acrylic.  We could have gone much cheaper on the acrylic, but got it thick enough to wedge-fit in the aluminum channel.  It is also very quiet now and I'm not smelling the ABS fumes as bad.

Brad

[Trevor Lewis]

 An engineer from NASA mentioned that the trick to getting reliable prints in zero gravity was to have a good enclosure to maintain a constant ambient temperature. At the time I was too stunned by the concept of a 3d printer on ISS to ask about the enclosure, but I wouldn't be surprised if they looked similar. Nice setup. :)

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Failure is just success rounded down. - T-Rex

 

Sent from your iPhone.

[SMT Guy Austin, Texas]

Thanks Trevor!

[Leeboy]

Nice enclosure! I wasn't having problems with curling, but did have issues with warping after the part was removed. So I built a chamber as well, not as nice, but a bit cheaper. It's made from 1/2" foam insulation. I also added a small space heater and temp controller. I currently print with the chamber at 140 deg F with great results. I was curious what temp does your chamber get to, and if you have any post print warping issues?

[SMT Guy Austin, Texas]

I haven't seen any warping issues yet, but have only printed a few parts since putting it in the chamber. I'll mount a thermometer in there Monday and see what temps it's hitting. I'm thinking of adding a small space heater as well as a charcoal filtering unit that intakes and exhausts within the box to further limit ABS fumes.

[Kyle Smith]

Looks great, I may have to build one. I've heard a chamber really improves consistency.

Kyle

[slipshine]

Can any of you tell me if printing with the chamber reduces the amount of cracking you get between layers on larger prints with ABS prints.

[Galen Collins]

What I do is heat the bed to 110 degrees then let it print the first
layer at that temp. Immediately after the first layer is laid down, turn
OFF the heater and let the print finish at room temp.

[slipshine]

If I turn off the heat my part would come loose. What method do you use to secure to build platform?
I use kapton tape cleaned with alcohol at 50deg C. When my platform cools down my part requires no pressure to lift off.

[Galen Collins]

I gave up on Kapton tape. I use hairspray. It sticks like crazy. If the
part has a "foot" that is too small you may need to make a larger one. I
just make a square that is about 1mm thick and cut it off when the print
is done.

[Guys]

Hi Brad,

I would like to build such an enclosure for the M2. Appreciate if you can provide some info on the following:
1) enclosure dimensions?
2) what aluminum profile was used?
3) how the acrylic plate was connected?
4) based on your experience, anything i need to pay attention to? Anything i need to improve?

Thanks in advance,

Guy

[Brad Scoggins]

Hi Guy,

The enclosure is at the office, so I can send dimensions on Monday. It uses 20mm extrusion. The acrylic fits into the extrusion channel on the fixed sides and is hinged on the sides that open. You will need to relocate the control box to the exterior. My harness was plenty long enough to do this after snipping a few of the zip ties.

Brad

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[Guys]

Hi Brad,

Thanks for the info, appreciate if you can send me the dimensions on Monday and if possible a close up picture of the enclosure.

You did mentioned i'll need to relocate the Rambo at the exterior, this is due to temperature issues (not to heat up the controller) or due to cables arrangement/complexity issues?

Thanks in advance,

Guy

[SMT Guy Austin, Texas]

HI Guy,

The dimensions are approximately 18" Deep X 25.5" Wide X 25.5" Tall.  If you want the Y axis to home the full range with the doors closed, you will need to make it about 5" deeper.  I wanted mine to fit aboard the rolling cart, so I let it home and then close the doors.  The extrusion and hardware is from Inventables and Adafruit.  The two little displays show temp and humidity at the two levels.

The main board is outside the box because of internal temperatures.

Thanks!
Brad

[Guys]

Hi Brad,

 

Thanks a lot for your help. one last request, can you do zoom in to one of the enclosure corner (not the one with the Hinge) I would like to see how the Acrylic plate is connected.

 

As for the temperature inside the chamber I thought of using a fan to take the warm air outside the chamber.

 

Thanks for these two web sites ( Inventables and Adafruit) I was not familiar with.

 

Best regards,

Guy

[Brad Scoggins]

Hi Guy,

 

The acrylic actually sits in the channel in the extrusion.  The gap is approximately 6mm and ¼” acrylic is a press fit.  You assemble 3 sides, then slide the panel in and secure the 4^th piece of extrusion.  It is important to build the frame before cutting or ordering the acrylic because you want it to engage the channel on all 4 sides.

 

Best,

Brad

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[Guys]

Thanks, but the L connector doesnt prevent from the acrylic going all the way in?
Can you send me a picture showing one of the corners?

Really appreciate your help

Regards,
Guy

[SMT Guy Austin, Texas]

The acrylic is relieved to clear the brackets.

[Guys]

Thanks a lot!!!

 

I will post some pictures of my enclosure once it is ready.

 

I have some uncertainty whether to put the controller inside the chamber and to add a fan to take the heat out or to take the entire controller out as you did.

 

Best regards,

Guy Shimon

[Brad Scoggins]

Good Luck!

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[Kamil]

Another option to might be to go a little over-sized on the acrylic and attach the panels to the outside of the extrusion with some bolts and t nuts. Or use brackets like the Misumi HBLFSN5-C which has a M5 tapped hole on the gusset for attaching a panel. However, the hole does add an extra 24 cents per bracket over the normal HBLFSN5.

SMT Guy's enclosure does look nice and clean. Nice job!

[Guys]

I've ordered some of these: https://www.inventables.com/technologies/extrusion-bracket--2

My biggest question now is whether to put the Rambo controller outside the chamber or to keep it in (for simplicity) and use 120mm fan to take the heat outside the chamber.

Appreciate if you have any suggestions/thoughts.

Regards,

Guy

[Tony Shulthise]

I put a cardboard box around mine with a small acrylic window so I can see in.  I put a thermometer through the wall so I can see the internal temp.  It runs at around 105F inside when the bed is set at 80C.  

My ABS still pulled off the bed until I used some leftover glue that came from Cubify.  Come to think of it, the fan was turned on during that print so that could have made the problem worse.  I tried Aquanet hairspray but that didn't help either (with the fan on).  I might try dissolved ABS in acetone next.  The glue from Cubify causes it to stick so hard its very difficult to remove from the plate without destroying the part even if I put the plate and part in the freezer so that's not optimal either.

I had one extruder jam using the heated build area box but none since in several hours of heated printing.  I hope that was a fluke but its probable that at some temperature the filament might get too soft to extrude reliably.  

I'll keep experimenting until I figure out what works best then I'll build a nice enclosure and include some way to control the internal temp.  Right now I just leave a little hole in the top panel of the box to keep it from going over 105F.  If I move the electronics outboard then I might try hotter temps but at some temp a cooling loop will be required for the extruder.  I suggest moving the filament outside the enclosure too.

I'd love to know what temp commercial FDM printers use for the build chamber when using ABS.

[jimc]

I just happened to stumble on the stratasys patent and their chamber runs 70-90c.

[jimc]

I guess since the electronics can be easily moved outside the enclosure, the big question is how warm can the steppers get without having issues?

[Tony Shulthise]

Jimc... would you be so kind as to post a link to the Stratasys patent you referenced?  Thanks for the info!

About stepper motor max temps... it depends on the particular stepper design and how hard they are being driven.  If you raise the enclosure temp X degrees then the stepper will operate that many degrees hotter.  So, the specific design of the stepper being used, enclosure temp and current passing through the stepper will determine the limits.

100C case operating temperature is on the upper end of a quality stepper motor.  You can buy stepper motors that are rated for much higher temps.  I don't know how much they cost.

Looking at the M2, if the enclosure is designed in a certain way, its possible to keep all of the electronics except the Y axis stepper outside of a heated build volume.  You just need a bellows or lip to seal the line that the extruder tip needs to pass through.  It would be easy to add a fan, duct and tube to externally cool the Y axis stepper.  

Integrating this type of enclosure onto the M2 and redesigning the build plate mount to be much stiffer with better leveling will be my next project.  I'll add a resistive heater to the enclosure so I can experiment with enclosure temps up to 90C.

I love using ABS for builds but it never works well for tall prints.

[Tony Shulthise]

From the Oriental Motor Product forum...  122F max ambient temp (lots of assumptions included in that number)

Our step motor windings use Class B rated insulation wire. The Class B rating is 130°C (266°F). There is an approximately 30°C (86°F) temperature drop form the windings themselves to the motor case surface. Therefore, the maximum case temperature should be 100°c (212°F).

To determine the maximum ambient temperature of our stepping motors, we know that the maximum temperature rise for a stepping motor at rated voltage and two phases ON is 80°C (176°F) from experimentation. If you subtract the maximum temperature rise of the motor 80°C (144°F) from the maximum winding temperature of 130°C (266°F), the maximum ambient temperature for a stepping motor would be 130°C - 80°C = 50°C (122°F)

On Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:50:10 PM UTC-4, jimc wrote:

[jimc]

oh boy tony, i managed to find that 3 weeks ago and i dont remember where. i did find the actual patent and confirmed but i also found the 70c being mentioned all over the place on the web. there is a good 3 part youtube video of a guy who built a heated enclosure. he started at 50c and eventually ended at 70. he water cooled the steppers.