Buzzing/Grinding Extruder Motor? Video inside...

[Travis]

I had printed something, and everything was great, perfectly normal.  I am working on a small piece and slowly turning up the resolution.  However, after letting the machine warm up again and loading the new file, when I went to "prime" the hot end by clicking the extrude button a couple of times as I always do, all I got was this:

http://youtu.be/Ph7UWG3KfWA

I took the hot end assembly off, and it still does the same thing.  The gear looks like it wants to turn and moves a little, but never actually rotates.  Almost like there's something stuck inside it, jamming a gear.  I reset the machine, restarted the computer, same deal..any ideas?

[Joshua Wills]

What's your extrude speed set to in pronterface?

As an aside, you should make sure that the extruder motor connector and cable are properly supported, and don't shift around when the extruder moves in X - this can lead to stress and eventual damage on the wires and connector.


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Josh
MakerGear

[Rick Pollack]

turn the motor so that it is upright and secure the extruder wiring with a zip so that wires can't move around. unplug the extruder motor and reseat the connector. if that does not work, check the resistance on the motor wiring pairs.

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[Travis Bailey]

Hi Josh, I have it at the default 300mm/min, I've never messed with this setting, yet at least, and the cables and connections are all solid..

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[Travis Bailey]

Hi Rick, which direction is upright?  Connector side up?

[Rick Pollack]

connector side up

[Travis Bailey]

No change.  I spun the extruder gear by hand, it feels fine.  Unplugged the X-axis connector and pulled the extruder motor out, it turns over fine hooked up to the X-axis.

[Jay Couture]

Based on the sounds I hear, it's the gear box on the stepper. Maybe one of the extruder mount screws is too deep and rubbing the teeth?

[Rick Pollack]

what happens if you plug the extruder into the x axis?

[Travis Bailey]

Rick and Jay, it turns smoothly when plugged in to the X-axis connector.  It turns smoothly by hand, doesn't feel like anything is binding or catching or anything.  I've tried it fully assembled and just the bare motor/gear box, same result.  Could a driver or something have gone bad?

[Rick Pollack]

did you say the x axis motor works when plugged into the ext port?

[Travis Bailey]

No, I have not tried that yet, I was running out the door when I thought to try that real quick, the pigtail wouldn't reach.  Will give that a shot when I get home tonight and I've got a couple minutes to monkey with it.

[Travis Bailey]

Not looking good.  Switched all the wiring up, plugged it in and...nothing.  It lights up, but no fans.  Pronterface will connect but nothing happens when I hit any of the inputs.  Also gives me the SD failure message.  Put the wiring back to normal, no change.  Voltage at the supply plug is ~12.25v on the heavy gauge wires and 2.65v for the others.

[Travis]

Post weekend bump...any ideas before I start replacing parts until it works again?

[Joshua Wills]

Travis - good idea on the bump.  Is that voltage with the 6position plug disconnected from RAMBo, or connected?  Also, can you please try swapping the power input (IEC?) cords, going from the wall to the 12v and 19.5v power supplies?

[Travis Bailey]

Hi Josh,

Yes, the voltages are while it is unplugged.  Should I (attempt) to get a reading while plugged in as well?  I'll see if the reading changes with the cords swapped tonight.  What should I expect to be seeing at the terminals, 12v and 19.5v?

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 4:59 PM, Joshua Wills <joshe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Travis - good idea on the bump.  Is that voltage with the 6position plug disconnected from RAMBo, or connected?  Also, can you please try swapping the power input (IEC?) cords, going from the wall to the 12v and 19.5v power supplies?

[Joshua Wills]

Yes, 12V (+-.5V) and 19.5V (+-.5V).

[Travis Bailey]

Looks like we found one (and hopefully the only) problem.  Tonight's readings:  12.25v, and a dismal 1.4-1.8v.  Do power supplies die gradually?

On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Joshua Wills <joshe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes, 12V (+-.5V) and 19.5V (+-.5V).

[Joshua Wills]

Before we call that the only problem, could you please run another test?  I'd like you to unplug both power supplies, and then wait about two minutes.  Then take a flathead screwdriver and swap the two 12V wires on the left side of the 6 position block (while looking at it from the front of RAMBo), with the two 19.5V wires on the right side.  You can leave the 19.5V supply unplugged.  Triple check that the polarity matches the silkscreen on RAMBo, next to the power input connector.

From there, do a test of all systems (except HBP, obviously), to see if the power supply was the cause of all of your problems.  If all systems work correctly, email ka...@makergear.com to work out the quickest way to replace your power supply.  If there's anything that still doesn't work, please tell me, and we'll figure out if there's anything else that needs to be worked on.

[Travis Bailey]

Swapped leads, plugged it in..LED7 and the SD card reader lights come on, but no fan.  Printer 'connects' but nothing responds, no fans, no hot end.    D'oh..did the PS take something out with it?

Copy/paste from Pronterface:

Connecting...
start
Printer is now online.
echo: External Reset
Marlin: 1.0.0 RC2 for MakerGear M2
echo: Last Updated: 2012-05-30 | Author: johnny
echo: Free Memory: 4775  PlannerBufferBytes: 1232
echo:Using Default settings:
echo:Steps per unit:
echo:  M92 X44.44 Y44.44 Z200.00 E235.75
echo:Maximum feedrates (mm/s):
echo:  M203 X500.00 Y500.00 Z250.00 E200000.00
echo:Maximum Acceleration (mm/s2):
echo:  M201 X9000 Y9000 Z30 E10000
echo:Acceleration: S=acceleration, T=retract acceleration
echo:  M204 S3000.00 T3000.00
echo:Advanced variables: S=Min feedrate (mm/s), T=Min travel feedrate (mm/s), B=minimum segment time (ms), X=maximum xY jerk (mm/s),  Z=maximum Z jerk (mm/s)
echo:  M205 S0.00 T0.00 B20000 X20.00 Z0.40 E5.00
echo:PID settings:
echo:   M301 P7.00 I0.10 D12.00
echo:SD init fail
ok T:22.0 /0.0 B:22.3 /0.0 @:0
Extruding 5.000000mm of filament.
echo: cold extrusion prevented
Reversing 5.000000mm of filament.
echo: cold extrusion prevented
Setting hotend temperature to 175.000000 degrees Celsius.

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 6:02 AM, Joshua Wills <joshe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Before we call that the only problem, could you please run another test?  I'd like you to unplug both power supplies, and then wait about two minutes.  Then take a flathead screwdriver and swap the two 12V wires on the left side of the 6 position block (while looking at it from the front of RAMBo), with the two 19.5V wires on the right side.  You can leave the 19.5V supply unplugged.  Triple check that the polarity matches the silkscreen on RAMBo, next to the power input connector.

From there, do a test of all systems (except HBP, obviously), to see if the power supply was the cause of all of your problems.  If all systems work correctly, email ka...@makergear.com to work out the quickest way to replace your power supply.  If there's anything that still doesn't work, please tell me, and we'll figure out if there's anything else that needs to be worked on.

[Joshua Wills]

Did you keep the extension wires, running from the "right" set to the center set, in place?

[travis....@gmail.com]

Yes, surprisingly they stayed in place when I pulled the power wires out, so those are all good.

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 19, 2013, at 9:57 PM, Joshua Wills <joshe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Did you keep the extension wires, running from the "right" set to the center set, in place?

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[Joshua Wills]

Can you verify that they have 12V as well?  And if they do, could you unplug all power, and then swap the SMD fuses on RAMBo?  There are to, one on the left side in front of the power input connector, one a bit to the right of it.  You may need to change the power input jumper next to the USB connector back to USB power, if one of the fuses is bad.

[Travis Bailey]

Well, this is getting weird.  Tonight I am getting 19.25v and 12.25v in all the respective places..but when I first tested, it was the 12v that was dead, and the 19v was live.  I put the wires back in the original positions and plugged it in, same thing, until I unplugged the power supply from the wall and plugged it back in (plug fits snugly).  Same deal, just the two LEDs come on, Pronterface says connected but nothing responds.  Power jumper position doesn't change anything, neither did swapping fuses.  Voltage checked out at the posts on the back side of the plug in.  Hmm.

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 10:10 PM, Joshua Wills <joshe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Can you verify that they have 12V as well?  And if they do, could you unplug all power, and then swap the SMD fuses on RAMBo?  There are to, one on the left side in front of the power input connector, one a bit to the right of it.  You may need to change the power input jumper next to the USB connector back to USB power, if one of the fuses is bad.

[Graham Plumb]

Hi Travis,

I woke up this morning to find I have the same problem with my M2 printer. The extruder no longer extrudes and the extruder motor is making this 'rattling' noise (as seen/heard in your video), as though the steeper shaft is locked and the motor is still trying to turn. To my ears it sounds like the motor is working, but there is a physical reason / blockage that is stopping it turning. My guess is that the sound denotes that the shaft turns very slightly, perhaps a fraction of a degree between the internal coils, but the physical blockage stops rotation between coils, producing a tiny slip, that produces a series of 'slip sounds'. So I'm wondering what is stopping the motor turning. I'm not really an expert though, there's a chance this could be electrical too. Your feedback seemed to suggest that.

Anyway, I've not attempted to take anything apart yet, and wondered if you had found a solution since your last posting around Feb 20th? 

Finally - I did notice that the screw located behind the small fan, the one that seems to 'clamp' the feeding mechanism was very loose this morning. But probably shaken loose due to this problem - rather than the cause of it?

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Graham

[Charles]

It sounds to me that the extruder gear has come loose from the extruder motor shaft, remove the extruder and see if the gear is secured to the shaft by the set screw, if so tighten or replace the set screw.

[Graham Plumb]

Thanks Charles. 

I just managed to fix the problem. I discovered that a small piece of filament had gotten itself wrapped around the toothed feeder wheel, so was jamming the feed, causing the feeder stepper motor to shudder. I fixed it by removing the fans, removing the feeder bearing, reversing the feed 10 steps at a time, and picking the plastic out with a pair of pliers. 

I think the problem occured when I fed some now filament in. My guess is that a piece of the old filament broke off and got stuck in there. In future I will always try to push out the old filament before adding any new.

Cheers,

Graham

[jimc]

my extruder motor just went on me. the printer has worked flawlessly then out of nowhere it started clicking and grinding. pulled the motor and it seemed ok but i opened up the planetary gearbox on it and found the pinion gear on the motor shaft was wore away to nothing. printer is 3-4 weeks old. of course MG is sending a new one without question. very nice to deal with!.

[jimc]

for reference here is a pic of a new one i pulled from the mg flickr page. BIG difference.

[Travis Bailey]

Hi Graham, sorry about the delay. Sounds like you got your problem sorted, however mine was solved with a new harness. I never did crack the motor/gear box open, but it was turning over fine plugged in to the X/Y circuits if memory serves me, so I eliminated it from the list of possibilities. I believe it was a bad connection on the board side in the end.

Travis

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Sent from my iPhone

[Graham Plumb]

Glad to hear we both found solutions. btw - my trick for removing the old filament was to reverse 10 notches, then press a sharp chisel against the filament, which syncs nicely with the toothed gear behind. Reversing the filament another 10 notches clears that piece, and onto the next one. It's a good way to get filament out that isn't visible or deep enough to melt.

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