Re: [MakerGear] Largest layer thickness on a M2?

[Dean Piper]

You just need to source a nozzle that has a large outlet than the layer thickness you are trying to print at and you should be fine. So you should go to a .5mm nozzle for .4mm layers. I'm not sure people go much higher than that, but the nozzles may be out there. There is no reason it shouldn't work fine as long as you have a strong enough heat source in your hot end. I would think up to 1mm for 1.75mm filament should be doable and possibly up to 2mm with a 3mm filament stock.

-Dean

On Mon, Feb 4, 2013 at 1:28 PM, crank <cmra...@gmail.com> wrote:

I recently ordered a M2, and I wondering what is the largest layer thickness people have used? While, 100 and 200 micron prints are great. A lot of the time, I don't need that while doing design iterations, and I just need quicker low resolution prints. I imagine at least a .4mm (400 micron) layer has been done, but has anybody done anything with a larger layer thickness on a M2?

Thanks,

crank

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[ddurant]

This came up elsewhere recently and I think (i.e.: I haven't tested it) that the max thread height is a little under the max thread width..

 

The nozzle size (probably 0.35mm on a MakerGear) defines the minimum thread width. The flat part of the nozzle around the opening defines the maximum thread width.

 

I'd try increasing thread width to find the max then try setting the layer height to be just under (like 80-90%) of that width.

 

I don't think 1.75mm v. 3mm really comes into what's capable, though you may have to move slower with a 1.75mm machine if the extruder has a hard time keeping up. .

[Jay Couture]

If the M2 comes with a .35mm nozzle and the rule of thumb is 80% of nozzle diameter is the max layer height, then 0.28mm is the max layer height. The extrusion width is a bit bigger than the nozzle diameter. According to Prusa's calculator for a .35mm nozzle the printed extrusion width is .44mm, with a suggested layer height of .2mm.

Jay

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[ddurant]

> the rule of thumb

 

That very same rule is why people used to say that 0.1mm layers aren't possible.

 

> The extrusion width is ...

 

Extrusion width is (close to) the minimum thread witdh you can do - not the maximum. What you don't want to try (because it's silly) is having threads that are taller than they are wide. Since width is the limit there, increase the width to the max then make threads that are nearly circular.

 

And that calculator is giving suggestions, not solid limits. I've got a 0.4mm nozzle and have done layer heights down to a little under 0.001mm - the calculator suggests 0.25mm, which is a 250x difference.. I've seen pix of a MakerGear doing 0.02mm layers, despite the calculator suggestion 0.2mm layers.

 

My suggestion to the OP is still that he do a bit of testing and see what the machine will allow.

 
On Monday, February 4, 2013 7:36:37 PM UTC-5, JayC wrote:

If the M2 comes with a .35mm nozzle and the rule of thumb is 80% of nozzle diameter is the max layer height, then 0.28mm is the max layer height. The extrusion width is a bit bigger than the nozzle diameter. According to Prusa's calculator for a .35mm nozzle the printed extrusion width is .44mm, with a suggested layer height of .2mm.

Jay

[Jay Couture]

Photo proof :) or it didn't happen. Oh and list the print time too ;)

[ddurant]

> Photo proof :) or it didn't happen

 

If I post a picture will you ignore the rules and experiment to see what your machine can actually do? And post your findings so others can benefit from it?

 
On Monday, February 4, 2013 10:10:39 PM UTC-5, JayC wrote:

Photo proof :) or it didn't happen. Oh and list the print time too ;)

[Jay Couture]

I print at .2mm with a .5mm nozzle. I don't care for the quality beyond that at these print speeds :D And I'm not giving rules, I'm giving a "place to start". It does no good to throw out numbers without telling people why or where they come from IMO. But the numbers I linked to work well and one can tweak from there. 

My biggest upgrade recently was the addition of a 40mm fan and duct. I was using an 80mm fan on the corner of my Mendel and it wasn't working like the new setup does.

[Jay Couture]

BTW, you said less than .001mm or 1 micron. Here is 25 microns on the B9 

So now I'm curious what machine are you printing on. 

Found you ... it's an Ultimaker.

[ddurant]

>  I don't care for the quality beyond that ...

 

Oh well.. I was hoping somebody would really test out what a MakerGear machine could do - I'm a big fan of MG but don't have one of thier machines. Maybe the OP will try some layer height experiments in the other direction and post his findings..

 

Rick posted the 0.02mm / 20 microns print on an M2 a while ago: http://www.makergear.com/blogs/frontpage/6591695-20-microns-i-am . There's nothing for scale but I'm happy to take his word that it's real.

 

My experiments weren't printing an actual object at <1 micron as that would be insane - just a 20mm cube (which, despite being called a cube is 20x20x10mm) with 10 second layers would take over a day to print at that resolution. A Yoda or something would take far, far longer and I don't have the sorta patience to wait weeks for a desk toy.

 

Anyway, my first test got to just under 5 microns, https://plus.google.com/u/0/111682482428321695638/posts/J1rP2DXk18R , and the second got down to 0.937 microns, https://plus.google.com/u/0/111682482428321695638/posts/Khk9XYaUPKN . Zsteps is over 1000. I don't have print times but you can get an idea of how long it was taking via the text..

[ddurant]

> Here is 25 microns on the B9

 

Got to see that and the Form1 at MF:NYC (which Rick did not attend! :( ) and the Form1 had even nicer prints, IMO.

 

I don't see FDM resolution catching SLA/SLS resolution. Like, ever. I went expecting to see prints a bit better than mine on my best day but we're not even close.. FDM machines will probably keep the lead on cost, build volumes and cheaper consumables but the laser goo (or DLP goo) is always going to laugh at us on resolution.. It was very, very impressive.

 

(yes, I think resolution is much more than z height)