[MakerGear] HBP-HO (Heated Build Platform with Booster Board)

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Rick Pollack

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May 3, 2010, 10:26:32 PM5/3/10
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HBP-HO Beta Instructions (instructions will be posted as multiple entries in this thread)

The Booster Board gets power directly from the power supply but is regulated by the extruder controller. It also has a pot connected to a 555 to provide manual PWM control - turn it up for full power and or turn it down to the desired power level. The pot dial position and LED brightness indicate power level. The power switch has two settings - Off (booster board does nothing) or On meaning the booster is switched on and off by the extruder controller PID code. The LED will glow when the extruder controller turns the board on. The LED brightness level is based on the pot setting - high pwm = bright, low pwm = dull.

The booster board can be mounted on the bot frame next to the main board (see photo). The pot can be mounted through the frame, can be taped or otherwise (print your own pot housing?) affixed.

- The power connector connects to your ATX power supply

- The white, four-pin Molex with the red and orange wires will mate with the connector on the ceramic plate

- The other white, four-pin Molex connector (uses three wires) mates with the pot four-pin connector

- The green wire gets connected to the A- port on your extruder controller. Be sure to attach it to the the correct port - the port is located next to the heater ports and should be clearly labeled

Using the booster board, the ceramic plate can reach 120C in less than five minutes. Should it be needed, the HBP can reach temperatures in excess of 150C in ten to fifteen minutes. Be aware that the cupcake acrylic Z platform will begin to bind above 110C.
HBP Booster Board v1.jpg
Booster Board Mounted.jpg

Spacexula

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May 4, 2010, 11:21:18 PM5/4/10
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Awsome, I have been waiting for this post, Just finished my mendel
build, would you like me to record video of the install?
>  HBP Booster Board v1.jpg
> 596KViewDownload
>
>  Booster Board Mounted.jpg
> 145KViewDownload

Rick Pollack

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May 5, 2010, 9:55:58 PM5/5/10
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The attached photo shows how to layout the ceramic plate.

The kit contains (blue) 18ga  teflon coated wire. Use this wire to connect the nichrome to the outer pins of the four-pin Molex connector. Crimp pins (smaller and round) have also been included to connect the nichrome to the 18 ga wire. The inner Molex pins are for connecting the thermistor. The Molex econnector connects to the matching connector already attached to the Booster Board. The thermistor can be epoxied or taped into position.

Try to use 2.4 ohms (error on the side of too much resistance if you can't exactly get it) of nichrome, this way you draw a maximum of five amps. Though the ceramic plate is still magnetically mounted, the the nichrome and thermistor are hard-wired. [We're working on an upgrade that will allow you to use removalbe 1/16" aluminum plates (the ceramic will just serve to heat the aluminum plates) but it is in development and will likely not be available for several weeks.]

Holes have been drilled in the plate in the photo. These holes are optional but they allow the plate to be leveled while it is mounted on the Y-stage. You can drill them (carefully) with an 1/8" bit. The washers are epoxied to the ceramic in the same way as the washers for the standard HBP except that no ring terminals used. The washers just provide physical mounting points for the plate. When epoxying them be careful not to accidentally epoxy the Y-stage mounts as well. If you do, use a small precision screwdriver (or similar object) to carefully pry loose the epoxied items.
HBP-HO Ceramic Plate.jpg

Tony Buser

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May 8, 2010, 9:58:45 PM5/8/10
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I've been busy the last 2 weeks or so on vacation and working on my Mendel, so I haven't gotten a chance to unpack this kit until tonight.  I haven't finished it yet, but I just wanted to say I LOVE how easy it is to level once I drilled those holes and put in the new Y stage with the thread inserts.  Sooooo much nicer than the the old setup.

Spacexula

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May 9, 2010, 12:11:10 PM5/9/10
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Extruder issues here :). I have the kit, but I am now out of school
so Monday I will be putting it together. I can't wait!

On May 8, 9:58 pm, Tony Buser <tbu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been busy the last 2 weeks or so on vacation and working on my Mendel,
> so I haven't gotten a chance to unpack this kit until tonight.  I haven't
> finished it yet, but I just wanted to say I LOVE how easy it is to level
> once I drilled those holes and put in the new Y stage with the thread
> inserts.  Sooooo much nicer than the the old setup.
>
> On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 9:55 PM, Rick Pollack <r...@makergear.com> wrote:
> > The attached photo shows how to layout the ceramic plate.
>
> > The kit contains (blue) 18ga  teflon coated wire. Use this wire to connect
> > the nichrome to the outer pins of the four-pin Molex connector. Crimp pins
> > (smaller and round) have also been included to connect the nichrome to the
> > 18 ga wire. The inner Molex pins are for connecting the thermistor. The
> > Molex econnector connects to the matching connector already attached to the
> > Booster Board. The thermistor can be epoxied or taped into position.
>
> > Try to use 2.4 ohms (error on the side of too much resistance if you can't
> > exactly get it) of nichrome, this way you draw a maximum of five amps.
> > Though the ceramic plate is still magnetically mounted, the the nichrome and
> > thermistor are hard-wired. [We're working on an upgrade that will allow you
> > to use removalbe 1/16" aluminum plates (the ceramic will just serve to heat
> > the aluminum plates) but it is in development and will likely not be
> > available for several weeks.]
>
> > Holes have been drilled in the plate in the photo. These holes are optional
> > but they allow the plate to be leveled while it is mounted on the Y-stage.
> > You can drill them (carefully) with an 1/8" bit. The washers are epoxied to
> > the ceramic in the same way as the washers for the standard HBP except that
> > no ring terminals used. The washers just provide physical mounting points
> > for the plate. When epoxying them be careful not to accidentally epoxy the
> > Y-stage mounts as well. If you do, use a small precision screwdriver (or
> > similar object) to carefully pry loose the epoxied items.
>

Rick Pollack

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May 9, 2010, 12:25:35 PM5/9/10
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Thanks for the feedback Tony and Neil!!

We have one more HBP-HO beta kit ready. Please let me know if you are interested...

Rick
Message has been deleted

Tony Buser

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May 9, 2010, 9:52:31 PM5/9/10
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I was doing new standoffs for the new kit and got to the part where you're supposed to sand down the washers/bolts so they slide on smoothly.  I found it to be a lot easier to put the bolts in a drill and grind them against a file like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tbuser/4593491121/

On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Rick Pollack <ri...@makergear.com> wrote:
Thanks for the feedback Tony and Neil!!

We have one more HBP-HO beta kit ready. Please let me know if you are interested...

Rick

On Sun, May 9, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Spacexula <underwo...@gmail.com> wrote:

Tony Buser

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May 9, 2010, 9:55:59 PM5/9/10
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By the way, with the new heater board setup, there's no need to use the springs anymore since current isn't going through the standoffs right?  Is there a benefit to making it easier to level or anything?

Tony Buser

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May 10, 2010, 2:56:01 AM5/10/10
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I epoxied the new booster board style platform tonight: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tbuser/4594796974 So far so good, however I did have some trouble attaching the washers.  On the old one, the washer was attached to the ring terminals so there was a lot of surface area to stick to the plate.  Now since we're just attaching washers along with the stronger magnets, it kept pulling appart on me.

In hindsight I probably should have held them down with the stage and no magnets on the standoffs.  Maybe just small washers and nuts on the standoffs to hold them in place while it cured.  That or maybe wider washers would be easier to attach to the plate.

Tony Buser

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May 11, 2010, 1:26:57 AM5/11/10
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I finished hooking everything up: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tbuser/4597897570 and the booster board: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tbuser/4597281747

It's functioning well so far.  I set the target to 100 and it got there in under 6 minutes.  I have a feeling if I had set the target to 120, it would get to 100 in under 5 minutes since it slows down when it gets to the target.  I'll test it some more tomorrow and try to actually print on it.  The thermistor is reading about 10C less than my IR thermometer.  I need to upgrade my firmware to the one that lets you tweak the platform thermistor separately.

The wiring is a little messy and I'm afraid the connector hanging off the side of the platform might get caught on the Y-stage.  I routed the wires through the back side hole instead of the front side like you did.  Also I just attached the board by one screw where the top Z endstop would go.  I don't like drilling holes in my case, I'm thinking of making a printable box to put the board and knob in that clips onto the side of the body.

This is the first time I finally got an aluminum plate on top - it really does make for a much more even heating across the platform.  Overall it is a huge improvement over the old heated platform.

Rick

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May 13, 2010, 6:35:59 PM5/13/10
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Thanks for the feedback Tony!

I've got another upgrade in the works that is intended to allow the
1/16" aluminum plates to be easily swapped between builds. This way
the ceramic becomes a dedicated heater and you can have as many
aluminum/kapton (or koptan :) build surfaces as you want/need. It will
be a least a couple of weeks before it is available though...

Rick

On May 11, 1:26 am, Tony Buser <tbu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I finished hooking everything up:http://www.flickr.com/photos/tbuser/4597897570<http://www.flickr.com/photos/tbuser/4597897570/in/set-72157623367347505/>
> and
> the booster board:http://www.flickr.com/photos/tbuser/4597281747<http://www.flickr.com/photos/tbuser/4597281747/in/set-72157623367347505/>

Tony Buser

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May 13, 2010, 8:10:53 PM5/13/10
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I was thinking of getting some miniature metal binder clips to hold it
on. However it would be nice if it had some kind of handle to grab
ahold of.

Also the wires attached to the plate should probably be twice as long
so the molex connector doesn't get caught up.

Rick Pollack

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May 17, 2010, 11:48:00 PM5/17/10
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Tony - here is what i'm testing for the removable build surface...using slightly a over-sized aluminum piece and gluing rubber strips along the edges...this way the build surface can slide into position on the ceramic and the rubber pieces hold it in position. Lot of testing yet to do...but that is the direction I'm currently heading...

Rick
rubber mounting.jpg

Tony Buser

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May 18, 2010, 2:46:47 AM5/18/10
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Is the extra aluminum lip wide enough to grab ahold of it with a pair of pliers to lift it off?  If so I like it.  How long does it take for a fresh plate to get back up to temperature?

I've actually found that with the booster board, I can lower the platform temp by 10-20 degrees and blow a small handheld fan over the part for a minute and then the part usually pops right off.  Then with the booster board it only takes a minute or so to bring the temp back up.  That has been easier than picking the hot plate up and trying to pry it off.

Tony Buser

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May 19, 2010, 12:22:54 AM5/19/10
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Rick, have you experienced more pauses while printing with the booster board?  I'm wondering if it is causing some interference.  I used to get maybe one intermittent pause an hour and now I'm getting about 3 to 4 in 10 minutes.  (pause meaning everything stops for about a second while it continues to extrude causing a blob to form)

Rick Pollack

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May 19, 2010, 12:25:39 AM5/19/10
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Once it is up to temp, do you turn down the pot so that it heats slower and draws less power?

Tony Buser

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May 19, 2010, 12:33:35 AM5/19/10
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Hm, I just tried turning the switch off on the board during a print and it didn't seem to make much of a difference, but the temp dropped pretty fast even though the controller light went on.  I thought even with the board off, it would still heat up but use the extruder power?  I'll test it some more with the pot turned down.

Rick Pollack

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May 19, 2010, 12:40:47 AM5/19/10
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This board is not designed to run directly from the controller.

Tony Buser

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May 19, 2010, 1:17:15 AM5/19/10
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I tried turning board off after the first few layers and I tried turning the pot down to less than half before I started to print and still had pauses... so right now I'm printing from SD card and not having any pauses... so I guess that means I must have a problem with my laptop/usb and its probably not the booster board.

Spacexula

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Jul 1, 2010, 12:55:37 AM7/1/10
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Rick, I am in the process of installing and documenting right now on
the HBP-HO. Can I run it without installing the Thermister and just
using the hand dial?

On May 19, 1:17 am, Tony Buser <tbu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I tried turning board off after the first few layers and I tried turning the
> pot down to less than half before I started to print and still had pauses...
> so right now I'm printing from SD card and not having any pauses... so I
> guess that means I must have a problem with my laptop/usb and its probably
> not the booster board.
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 12:40 AM, Rick Pollack <r...@makergear.com> wrote:
> > This board is not designed to run directly from the controller.
>
> > On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 12:33 AM, Tony Buser <tbu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> Hm, I just tried turning the switch off on the board during a print and it
> >> didn't seem to make much of a difference, but the temp dropped pretty fast
> >> even though the controller light went on.  I thought even with the board
> >> off, it would still heat up but use the extruder power?  I'll test it some
> >> more with the pot turned down.
>
> >> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 12:25 AM, Rick Pollack <r...@makergear.com>wrote:
>
> >>> Once it is up to temp, do you turn down the pot so that it heats slower
> >>> and draws less power?
>
> >>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Tony Buser <tbu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> Rick, have you experienced more pauses while printing with the booster
> >>>> board?  I'm wondering if it is causing some interference.  I used to get
> >>>> maybe one intermittent pause an hour and now I'm getting about 3 to 4 in 10
> >>>> minutes.  (pause meaning everything stops for about a second while it
> >>>> continues to extrude causing a blob to form)
>
> >>>> On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 2:46 AM, Tony Buser <tbu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> Is the extra aluminum lip wide enough to grab ahold of it with a pair
> >>>>> of pliers to lift it off?  If so I like it.  How long does it take for a
> >>>>> fresh plate to get back up to temperature?
>
> >>>>> I've actually found that with the booster board, I can lower the
> >>>>> platform temp by 10-20 degrees and blow a small handheld fan over the part
> >>>>> for a minute and then the part usually pops right off.  Then with the
> >>>>> booster board it only takes a minute or so to bring the temp back up.  That
> >>>>> has been easier than picking the hot plate up and trying to pry it off.
>
> >>>>> On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 11:48 PM, Rick Pollack <r...@makergear.com>wrote:
>
> >>>>>> Tony - here is what i'm testing for the removable build
> >>>>>> surface...using slightly a over-sized aluminum piece and gluing rubber
> >>>>>> strips along the edges...this way the build surface can slide into position
> >>>>>> on the ceramic and the rubber pieces hold it in position. Lot of testing yet
> >>>>>> to do...but that is the direction I'm currently heading...
>
> >>>>>> Rick
>
> >>>>>> On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 8:10 PM, Tony Buser <tbu...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> I was thinking of getting some miniature metal binder clips to hold
> >>>>>>> it
> >>>>>>> on.  However it would be nice if it had some kind of handle to grab
> >>>>>>> ahold of.
>
> >>>>>>> Also the wires attached to the plate should probably be twice as long
> >>>>>>> so the molex connector doesn't get caught up.
>

Rick Pollack

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Jul 1, 2010, 1:00:22 AM7/1/10
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You can but that defeats the purpose of having it wired to the extruder controller.

What you can do with the pot is adjust the heat intensity...turn it all the way up for initial heating then turn it down a third (to 2/3 power) while printing... that's the idea at least...

Spacexula

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Jul 15, 2010, 4:59:42 PM7/15/10
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I was posting in the wrong area.

I have put everything together (finally). The temp sensor light comes
on, but the temperature received by RepG does not change. The HBP
does not heat, and the controler board does not light up when plugged
in. No change if I plug the HBP in or leave it unplugged.

Charley Jones

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Jul 15, 2010, 5:18:50 PM7/15/10
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Did you try measuring the resistance of the termister.  Should be about 100k ohms.  If zero ohms could be shorted.  Pretty easy to do its so small.

Spacexula

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Jul 16, 2010, 8:21:49 PM7/16/10
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Good news, it's working. I get up to 115C on the HBP in 5 minutes,
about 2 minutes after the nozzle gets up to temp.

To get all the boards mounted I ended up moving my extruder board to
the side of the bot (the pug for the thermistor is directly above
where the filament goes into the extruder (when using my horizontal
filament spool).

1 thing I don't understand, why would I ever run this thing at any
setting but full blast? If I turn the pot down I get a 5-8 degree
varient on the build plate them, but at full blast I only get 1-2.

Pics and video when I get home from work!

On Jul 15, 5:18 pm, Charley Jones <datama...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Did you try measuring the resistance of the termister.  Should be about 100k
> ohms.  If zero ohms could be shorted.  Pretty easy to do its so small.
>

Michael Rule

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Jul 16, 2010, 9:01:02 PM7/16/10
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last time I tried running HBP at 160 it kept the bottom centimeter of the print soft which eventually lead to its demise.

Spacexula

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Jul 17, 2010, 3:27:20 AM7/17/10
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What I mean is the pot allows me to control how hard the HBP is warmed
up, it's still thermostat controlled. So why would I turn it up half
way, making it take longer to recover back to the target temp?

Tony Buser

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Jul 17, 2010, 4:30:21 AM7/17/10
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I've thought the same thing.  I've played with turning it up and down at different times and under different situations... however 99.9% of the time I just leave it at full power.

Rick Pollack

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Jul 17, 2010, 10:50:55 AM7/17/10
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That's why we make and test prototypes!! Sometimes things make sense but don't play out in actual use.

Why did MBI go with relays (noisy and mechanical) rather than MOSFETS?

Spacexula

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Jul 17, 2010, 11:15:00 AM7/17/10
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If I had to guess, relays are less expensive, and can be installed
without surface soldering, meaning they are also cheaper to make into
assembled boards. Same reason they went with $8 Kysan gearmotors
instead of $15 steppers, it's just a little easier working with
gearmotors.

On Jul 17, 10:50 am, Rick Pollack <r...@makergear.com> wrote:
> That's why we make and test prototypes!! Sometimes things make sense but
> don't play out in actual use.
>
> Why did MBI go with relays (noisy and mechanical) rather than MOSFETS?
>
> On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 4:30 AM, Tony Buser <tbu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've thought the same thing.  I've played with turning it up and down at
> > different times and under different situations... however 99.9% of the time
> > I just leave it at full power.
>
> ...
>
> read more »

Rick Pollack

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Jul 17, 2010, 11:24:39 AM7/17/10
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The MOSFET on the board you are using is through-hole though it is a few dollars more expensive than the relay. Hard to believe that cost alone is the driver on this...

The Kysan makes sense for simplicity reasons...I can't see cost being the driver there...

Owen M Collins

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Jul 17, 2010, 2:02:27 PM7/17/10
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Is it because the Relay board can be an upgrade for existing customers? Especially those ones that are not comfortable with soldering? The next version of the extruder controller has to be beefed up to accommodate the Heated build platforms, if they don't do that they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Just my 2 cents,
O.

Rick Pollack

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Jul 17, 2010, 2:04:57 PM7/17/10
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Owen - what i meant is the relay board could have FETs on it rather than relays...same end result of being an upgrade for existing customers...i'm just puzzled by the choice of noisy, mechanical relays...

Rick Pollack

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Jul 17, 2010, 2:07:19 PM7/17/10
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These are the FETs were using on the Booster Board...cost a few dollars but quite beefy.

Spacexula

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Jul 17, 2010, 4:53:24 PM7/17/10
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I hadn't really thought about the noise factor, but they are mounting
it to the Z axis in some of the pictures... Considering the habit of
heaters to "tap" the heat up, those relays could be going off 10+
times a minute. Click,Click,Click,Click,Click, goes your Z axis when
it gets to temp.

On Jul 17, 2:07 pm, Rick Pollack <r...@makergear.com> wrote:
> These are the FETs<http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=VNP35N07-Evirtualke...>were
> using on the Booster Board...cost a few dollars but quite beefy.
>
> On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 2:04 PM, Rick Pollack <r...@makergear.com> wrote:
> > Owen - what i meant is the relay board could have FETs on it rather than
> > relays...same end result of being an upgrade for existing customers...i'm
> > just puzzled by the choice of noisy, mechanical relays...
>
> > On Sat, Jul 17, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Owen M Collins <ccstudio.o...@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >> Is it because the Relay board can be an upgrade for existing customers?
> >> Especially those ones that are not comfortable with soldering? The next
> >> version of the extruder controller has to be beefed up to accommodate the
> >> Heated build platforms, if they don't do that they are shooting themselves
> >> in the foot.
>
> >> Just my 2 cents,
> >> O.
>
> >> On Jul 17, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Rick Pollack wrote:
>
> >> The MOSFET on the board you are using is through-hole though it is a few
> >> dollars more expensive than the relay. Hard to believe that cost alone is
> >> the driver on this...
>
> >> The Kysan makes sense for simplicity reasons...I can't see cost being the
> >> driver there...
>
> ...
>
> read more »

Spacexula

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Jul 18, 2010, 2:20:50 PM7/18/10
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Does anyone know if it's possible to install the raftless python
script in the ReplicatorG 17 skeinforge build? I have tried it twice
with no success. Also where can I download the most recent version of
that script?
> ...
>
> read more »

Spacexula

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Jul 19, 2010, 1:37:09 PM7/19/10
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Rick, is there any reason you use aluminmum instead of stainless as
your heat distributer?

I am using the HO HBP, and I am seeing LESS thermal variance across
the build surface, and the surface can be twisted to release parts,
and goes back to its original form.

The steel shop up the street gave me 2 sheets for $10, and he said if
I purchased more he could cut the price further.

On Jul 16, 9:01 pm, Michael Rule <mrule7...@gmail.com> wrote:

Andrew Plumb

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Jul 19, 2010, 1:54:23 PM7/19/10
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Best-guess, aluminum is a lot easier to machine that stainless steel.

--

"The future is already here. It's just not very evenly distributed" -- William Gibson

Me: http://clothbot.com/wiki/

Spacexula

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Jul 19, 2010, 1:57:43 PM7/19/10
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True, but there is no machining done to the aluminum, it's just stamp
cut. It took him 30 seconds to cut, it looks just like the aluminum
sheet I got.

Rick Pollack

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Jul 19, 2010, 2:37:11 PM7/19/10
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Have not tried steel...

Try using the aluminum and then once the platform is up to temp...turn the pot down a 1/3 and let me know if you still see a temp variance across the surface....
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