Makerbot Replicator

[Chris Brent]

http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2012/01/09/introducing-the-makerbot-replicator/

[Chris Brent]

Looks great, but it's kind of a bummer that I got a TOM in October and now this comes out. I would have waited for dual extruders (I know I can do that now) and a bigger platform. Oh well such is life at the tech frontier.

[Chris Brent]

And there's a Mk8 head already, and it comes assemble??!!?? I loved being able to build my TOM.

[Stan Seibert]

I'm a little worried about the ever-increasing price of each MakerBot
generation. The Cupcake was ~$900, the Thingomatic was ~$1300, and
now the Replicator at $1750? I know improving the performance can't
happen for free, but my income is not growing at the same rate as the
MakerBot price tag. :)

After getting the store page up (getting hammered!), I see that this
kit (as mentioned in the video) is only offered in a pre-assembled
form. That makes the $1750 price tag more understandable, but I would
love to have a DIY Replicator kit available at the ToM price point of
$1300 or less.

Is the reason for no kit option because this device now requires some
(even more) special skills to assemble, or is the support burden of a
kit too much to handle with the customer growth of MakerBot?

[Batto]

my guess would be both parts and trying to grow a bit outside of the
maker niche. A lot of schools and libraries are wanting these pre-
built, so having a more consumer friendly store allows them to cater
to them more easily.

And honestly, while building it is fun, I don't think that having to
buy pre-built will slow down the modding community much!

[Luis E. Rodriguez]

They don't have warranty stickers, if you can't open it, you don't own it! :)

Luis E. Rodriguez

Are you a Maker?

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[SpeedBump]

Is it really only available assembled? That ruins it for me.
Assembling my ToM was much of the fun for me. I don't think I want one
if I can't put it together. It's really a slap in the face to all the
people who have supported them.

[dec...@shanaghy.com]

Strange logic that you wouldn't want one because of that.

Once you get it, you cant take it apart and then put it back together.
Double the fun!

[Eldoreth]

I hope that MBI will still carry the parts for the ToM like a mk8 as
an upgrade.
The new replicator is clearly targeted at another public.
Still happy i can build my own and mod it. A bigger build platform
would be nice though...

Kristof

[Luis E. Rodriguez]

I wonder if this means a new level of quality? How many errors result from user error? I do it regularly! Maybe a "pro kit" will surface. Does the extruder rest on the x and y gantry like a dimension or ultimaker or does the Z slide? Seems like it does but can't tell yet. I realize the no kit option doesn't seem very "makery" but it does seem like a more professional company. Did you see how many parts were plastic mold injected!? Thsi will be interesting to see played out.

Luis E. Rodriguez

Are you a Maker?

[SpeedBump]

I pretty much figured that it would be larger, and wider to
accommodate dual extruders. I was ready to order one today, but if
it's not available as a kit I don't want one. Time will tell if I'm
over reacting, but for now I'm seriously disappointed.

[Robert Hunt]

Looks like linear ball bearings being used on each axis and it appears
to be a similar setup to the Ultimaker. X and Y on the toolheads and
then Z on the platform, the extra space left and right of the platform
allows both toolheads to reach the maximum extent of the platform.
Also mentions a custom all-in-one motherboard like the RepRaps.

On Jan 9, 8:40 pm, "Luis E. Rodriguez" <lrodriguezm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I wonder if this means a new level of quality? How many errors result from
> user error? I do it regularly! Maybe a "pro kit" will surface. Does the
> extruder rest on the x and y gantry like a dimension or ultimaker or does
> the Z slide? Seems like it does but can't tell yet. I realize the no kit
> option doesn't seem very "makery" but it does seem like a more professional
> company. Did you see how many parts were plastic mold injected!? Thsi will
> be interesting to see played out.
>
> Luis E. Rodriguez

> Are you a Maker? <http://www.makerfairekc.com/>

[Z LeHericy]

Looks like it's a really good machine, But like many before me, I agree that the price is quite steep, and they really need to provide an un-assembled version! I had a ton of fun putting together my Makerbot, and it would be a shame not to be able to put the new ones together, since it gives you a lot more insight into how the machine works and where the forces are.

-Zeno LeHericy

//((=:Z:=))\\
INVENTIONS
Technologies
zinventions.com

[Matt Smollinger]

It's definitely a lot more complicated of a device. It's very similar
to the ultimakers, as the X/Y axis now moves the extruder head, just
like on the ultimakers.

Initial Impressions:

- Curious to see how much faster it is. The Mk8 does not appear to be
a bowden-style setup, so flinging dual extruder heads around could
make for some decent weight. However I've yet to be able to grab the
press kit for some higher-res images (dang overloaded web server), so
I can't be sure they didn't move to a bowden setup.
- Strange build size. 9x6x6? That's smaller than most of the repraps,
and the ultimakers. Also not sure what the reasoning was for making it
rectangular, other than not have it stick out so far on a desk.
- Isn't this actually *less* expensive than an assembled ToM? Last
time I checked they were 2k+ to get pre-assembled. Not saying this
isn't inexpensive, but it looks like they are trying to deal with
support issues, and become less of a "kit" company. By only selling
pre-assembled kits, you can QA everything out of the gate to make sure
its working before you ship it.
- I hope they got acceleration & look-ahead in the new firmware. The
reason the ultimaker's are quick is because the firmware is smart
enough to know when it can be fast and when not to be.

Overall it's a good move on their part. Yesterday, I could buy an
unassembled ultimaker for about $1550 US (pre-shipping), and then
spend a weekend putting it together (maybe more). Now MBI at least has
a good competitor, and hopefully the firmware to back it up.

So how long until someone puts up a model on thingiverse to print a
loaf of bread? :)

--Matt--

[Lucas Saugen]

Considering what they charged for an assembled TOM it doesn't seem that bad to me. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road they do sell a self build version at a bit of a discount.

The whole thing makes a lot to sense to me but it will be a while before I get rid of my TOM even though I really want the larger build area.

-Lucas Saugen

Dictated But Not Read.

[Thomas Mahady]

I could see offering it in a kit form may help in making a bit more money a little more quickly to please the new investors. Or just a way to help meet demand, knowing that most of the existing customers won't initially bite since they want a kit.

Hopefully a kit or a vitamin pack will be available after the initial surge of demand.

I know I will want to make one but mod it to have a square platform. 9"x9" at least.

Tom
Makerbot #441

[SpeedBump]

The product page does refer to it as an "assembled kit" so there is
still hope. I will definitely wait to see how this plays out.

[Far McKon]

On Jan 9, 3:01 pm, Stan Seibert <s...@mtrr.org> wrote:

> I'm a little worried about the ever-increasing price of each MakerBot
> generation.  The Cupcake was ~$900, the Thingomatic was ~$1300, and
> now the Replicator at $1750?  I know improving the performance can't
> happen for free, but my income is not growing at the same rate as the
> MakerBot price tag.  :)

Yeah, that's the release price. It's 2x the build space, but it is a
couple of hundred more. Sorry :( Of course, over the lifetime of the
product (like any product) the prices drop slowly, and this holiday
season the TOM was down to $999 for a while. I (think) the assembled
Replicator is cheaper than the assembled Thing O Matic, if I recall
correctly.

> the support burden of a
> kit too much to handle with the customer growth of MakerBot?

Good guess on that. It's support burden, It's that & 'lets avoid over-
their-head new people getting frustrated'. We wanted to make sure that
first print out of the box was right, and save new folks the burden of
an assembly they 'misunderestimated'. Like the hobby computer market
turning into Desktop market in the '70's and 80's, as you grow DIY
kits become unsustainable. At some scale it just makes sense to sell
everything pre-assembled, pre-tested, and pre-checked for quality
control.

Of course, our software is still all Open Source, our hardware is
still all open source, etc. It's as hackable as ever, but that first
out of the box print is that much faster and easier.

hack on,
- Far McKon

Desktop Lead and Nerd Herder
MakerBot Industries

[Landis Fields]

I was reeeeeally close to pulling the trigger on an Ultimaker before
today. I plan to dedicate the additional extruder to pushing water
soluble support material. Is it possible to print support as a
separate material using the new replicator? The new build size
increase is welcomed, however, my only concern (even over speed) is
resolution. Does anyone know how the replicator (or any makerbot for
that matter) compares to Ultimaker in terms of surface detail/
resolution? Will netfabb support makerbot in the near future or will
makerbots native software print at comparable resolutions out of the
box? I don't care about how long it takes to print as long as the
resolution is 20 microns like the Ultimaker using ultra fine detail
setting in netfabb. Slicing is supposed to be ridiculously fast in
netfabb as well. Any info one any of this would be greatly
appreciated. Links to high resolution smooth prints, anything.

-Landis

On Jan 9, 1:18 pm, Lucas Saugen <lucas.sau...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Considering what they charged for an assembled TOM it doesn't seem that bad to me. I wouldn't be surprised if down the road they do sell a self build version at a bit of a discount.
>
> The whole thing makes a lot to sense to me but it will be a while before I get rid of my TOM even though I really want the larger build area.
>
> -Lucas Saugen
>
> Dictated But Not Read.
>

> On Jan 9, 2012, at 4:58 PM, Z LeHericy <zeno...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Looks like it's a really good machine, But like many before me, I agree that the price is quite steep, and they really need to provide an un-assembled version! I had a ton of fun putting together my Makerbot, and it would be a shame not to be able to put the new ones together, since it gives you a lot more insight into how the machine works and where the forces are.
>
> > -Zeno LeHericy
>
> > //((=:Z:=))\\
> > INVENTIONS
> > Technologies
> > zinventions.com
>

> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.

[Luis E. Rodriguez]

Netfabb does state they have an engine in the works and is testing it but many people use SFACT or Slic3r, I have not tried them. Dave Durrant was getting pretty low using his cupcake so hell just try it. Not much of an answer becasue I don't know and dont need that resolution. I also hate to wait for 10+ hours for something. Not that I wouldn't. Why do you need such resolution? Molds? Art pieces? I'm really curious. I love a good yoda but even dimension printers are something like .1 resolution. Engineers use them so... :)

 

Here is a fun bit: "Software-controllable RGB LED lighting"

Luis E. Rodriguez

Are you a Maker?

[SpeedBump]

Far, does that definitely mean you will not be offering a kit
version?

[ddurant]

> Does anyone know how the replicator (or any makerbot for
> that matter) compares to Ultimaker in terms of surface detail/
> resolution?

 

Too early to tell, I think. The only thing they've shown so far is the globe at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY6VSu-oOws . Looks like what we usually see from MBI - maybe .35mm layer or so layer height..

 

Although it moves the print head(s) around on X/Y and the platform on Z, there does seem to be some big differences with this vs Ultimaker. The bit thing that catches my eye is that they're moving the extruder motor(s) around on X/Y which means a lot more moving mass, which probably means isn't not going to go overly fast and be able to keep quality. I'm also quite curious about the machine footprint vs build size - bit surprised at that and interested to see some more details on what's going on there..

[Stan Seibert]

On Jan 9, 4:33 pm, Far McKon <farmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 9, 3:01 pm, Stan Seibert <s...@mtrr.org> wrote:
>
> > I'm a little worried about the ever-increasing price of each MakerBot
> > generation.  The Cupcake was ~$900, the Thingomatic was ~$1300, and
> > now the Replicator at $1750?  I know improving the performance can't
> > happen for free, but my income is not growing at the same rate as the
> > MakerBot price tag.  :)
>
> Yeah, that's the release price. It's 2x the build space, but it is a
> couple of hundred more. Sorry :( Of course, over the lifetime of the
> product (like any product) the prices drop slowly, and this holiday
> season the TOM was down to $999 for a while.  I (think) the assembled
> Replicator is cheaper than the assembled Thing O Matic, if I recall
> correctly.

Yes, for an assembled MakerBot printer, this is a price cut. I never
considered buying a pre-assembled 3D printer before, so it stretches
my price threshold a bit compared to the kit products I'm used to.
Effectively, my "early adopter discount" was ~$500 for being willing
to deal with kits rather than pre-assembled stuff.

> > the support burden of a
> > kit too much to handle with the customer growth of MakerBot?
>
> Good guess on that.  It's support burden, It's that & 'lets avoid over-
> their-head new people getting frustrated'. We wanted to make sure that
> first print out of the box was right, and save new folks the burden of
> an assembly they 'misunderestimated'.  Like the hobby computer market
> turning into Desktop market in the '70's and 80's, as you grow DIY
> kits become unsustainable.   At some scale it just makes sense to sell
> everything pre-assembled, pre-tested, and pre-checked for quality
> control.

Yeah, that's fair. It will just take us (existing MakerBot operators)
a while to internalize that, especially when we had all gotten used to
the DIY kit product model (and DIY kit pricing). I expect that places
like MakerGear (and soon Printrbot) will continue to service the
bottom end of the price spectrum with kits while you guys compete with
pre-assembled printers.

> Of course, our software is still all Open Source, our hardware is
> still all open source, etc. It's as hackable as ever, but that first
> out of the box print is that much faster and easier.

Which is nice to see, and I agree that Open Source Hardware doesn't
have to imply kits.

[Chris Gilmer]

I would buy one of these if it came unassembled at $1500. I stand
with a lot of other people that building it up from a kit was more
than half the fun.

I'm actually excited to see if people make a quadstruder on top of
this new platform. Four colors is better than two for sure.

Where do we find the open source plans for this thing? I want to look
at them.

Chris

[Chris Wundram]

I agree on the unassembled kits. The familiarity that you get with
the machine by putting it together gives you the confidence to fix it,
mod it, etc.

[Owen M Collins]

They usually don't post plans until after they are shipping them out the door.

O.

[Andrew M. C. Dawes]

I feel the same way, I'm currently assembling a TOM that arrived right
after Christmas.

I hope the TOM (or a kit-version replicator) will be available to
those who want them. The lower price point is a great way to encourage
people (and groups) to take on the project and try building one.

-Andy

[ivc]

The electronics now include one single main board, the MightyBoard.
The stepper controllers are now BotStep modules that fits into sockets
on the MightyBoard. The new InterfaceBoard now has the LCD module, lit
control input, and the SD card slot on a single board. A RGB LED strip
is included and can be software controlled. And the power supply is
an external 24V adapter.

The new diagrams can be found here: http://beta.ivc.no/wiki/index.php/MakerBot

ivc.

On Jan 9, 8:48 pm, Chris Brent <chris.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2012/01/09/introducing-the-makerbot-repl...

[Jamesarm97]

Go figure I ordered while on sale on Fab.com just a few weeks ago and
now this. What makes it worse is that I haven't received my first unit
yet, so I am having buyers remorse. I not sure if the +750 would be
worth it for just a size increase. I have already had to modify my
first design (now if I just had a TOM) to fit on the build platform,
so this would be a nice upgrade.

[Charles Edward Pax]

Hello, all. I'd like to comment on the kit vs. assembled issue. There
is a lot of work that goes into packing kits. Parts have to be
counted, put into bags, checked by someone else, labeled, and half a
dozen other steps to get a machine from inventory to a nicely packed
kit which we guarantee to have all the components you need.

When we began the Replicator project just a few months ago one of my
goals was to design the machine in such a way that it would take no
more time for the production staff to assemble a Replicator than to
pack one as a kit. We met that goal and are passing the savings to
you. To pack a Replicator as a kit would actually cause the price to
increase, which is something we'd rather not do.

Not only are we making The Replicator in a was that costs you less,
we're testing each machine before it goes out the door. You can buy
with confidence that your MakerBot will work right away, saving you
hours of assembly time. This helps new users get started quickly and
helps veteran users get straight to hacking.

The Replicator was designed with the philosophy that it should take no
more than two operations to perform a task. You'll see that every
component on the machine is in plain view and can easily be reached.
There is an electronics cover, so I suppose you would have to remove a
single bolt before you can view that.

I'm confident that Replicator users with experience on previous
MakerBots or other 3D printers will be quite pleased with the new
design. I'm very proud of what the R&D team here at MakerBot has
created and I look forward to your feedback when you finally
experience The Replicator for yourself.

Charles Edward Pax
MakerBot Industries
Director of Research & Development
87 3rd Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11217

[Chris Wundram]

Is it still belt driven? Or does it use lead screws for the x and y axis now?

Sent from my iPhone

[ddurant]

> When we began the Replicator project just a few months ago ...

> ...

> Charles Edward Pax
> MakerBot Industries
> Director of Research & Development
 

Really? The project went from start to ship in just a few months?

[Luis E. Rodriguez]

Zoom into the full res Flickr photos to see the belts and spring tensioner.

Luis E. Rodriguez

[sto...@gmail.com]

After seeing the kickstarter for Printrbot ($800+K in 30 days.) there is a good demand for assembled printers. Most people I know are interested in my bots, but have no interest to build. And the problems read on the forums sure would aggravate me as the manufacturer. Not a way to make money. That is, with so many builders learning and making issues to correct. A real headache.

>>> On Jan 9, 3:01 pm, Stan Seibert <s...@mtrr.org> wrote:
>>
>>>> I'm a little worried about the ever-increasing price of each MakerBot
>>>> generation.  The Cupcake was ~$900, the Thingomatic was ~$1300, and
>>>> now the Replicator at $1750?  I know improving the performance can't
>>>> happen for free, but my income is not growing at the same rate as the
>>>> MakerBot price tag.  :)
>>

>>>> After getting the store page up (getting hammered!), I see that this
>>>> kit (as mentioned in the video) is only offered in a pre-assembled
>>>> form.  That makes the $1750 price tag more understandable, but I would
>>>> love to have a DIY Replicator kit available at the ToM price point of
>>>> $1300 or less.
>>
>>>> Is the reason for no kit option because this device now requires some

>>>> (even more) special skills to assemble, or is the support burden of a

>>>> kit too much to handle with the customer growth of MakerBot?
>>

>>>> On Jan 9, 2:51 pm, Chris Brent <chris.br...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Looks great, but it's kind of a bummer that I got a TOM in October and now
>>>>> this comes out. I would have waited for dual extruders (I know I can do
>>>>> that now) and a bigger platform. Oh well such is life at the tech frontier.
>

[Ryan Rix]

Hi,

Will the Replicator have the parts' source available online for those who want
to print and build their own Replicator a la
http://wiki.makerbot.com/thingomatic ?

r

Ryan Rix -- http://rix.si
== OpenSource.com: Where Open Source Happens! ==
_
\/"/_ All Hail the Beefy Miracle!
/_/
\ \

[JohnA.]

I'm not intrigued. I guess the target market is changing, which is
to be expected since there's a limited number of enthusiasts with this
kind of 'play' money. Gotta take the product where the $$ is,
especially now that there's a clock ticking and investors that need to
recoup funds.

I wonder what it means that it's open source if a bunch of the parts
are molded plastic? Sure we'll be able to laser cut other parts,
and then scour SDP-SI / McMaster for hardware - but if there are now
bespoke plastic parts, we're basically out of luck without them. Are
we going to get detailed parts drawings if we wanted to get our own
molded? Just seems like the whole thing is moving away from it's
roots.


JohnA.

> >> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.

[jakero...@gmail.com]

Its not moving away from its roots. They've always been a for profit
company! You weren't tricked, You paid good money for a good products
which still function.

These guys have, from the beginning, been attempting to break into the
FDM extrusion fabrication market. Their attempt was based on a new
style business model. Open source, public beta of hardware. They've
succeeded! This is good news for all us hobbyists! There is now a
clear way for us to take our inventions and turn them into MAJOR
companies with VC funding! UNHEARD of previously.

The rep rap project (where the makerbot guys came from) is still out
there, playing and experimenting for hobbyists and academics. AND I
expect makerbot will continue to give away their designs so you can
make and build your 3d printing rig unitl your hearts content.

(Though I also worry makerbot will move the google route of open
source where they delay the source for as long as they can into the
product cycle--but well see.)

[sto...@gmail.com]

Aw, where did that maker spirit go? A molded part starts as a design and then print, for us. And you wouldn't keep a stock part likely more than a few weeks anyway. Right?

Just gotta hack and make it your own ;-)

----- Reply message -----
From: "JohnA." <john....@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Jan 9, 2012 8:41 pm
Subject: [MakerBot] Re: Makerbot Replicator

[JohnA.]

Oh, I fully expect that people will print replacements. Hell, one of
my Cupcakes is more printed than original at this point:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jabella/5629789758/in/set-72157626520721668/

I'm just not sold yet.


JohnA.

[Aaron Double]

John,

Sorry about all of those prints... you could go full tilt and print webca's panels and have a FULLY printed cupcake:-)

Aaron Double

[Matt Smollinger]

Just looked at the Wiki link "ivc" posted a couple posts back. Very
interesting, if that is the actual new electronics. Looks like they
are *finally* using Pololu's for stepping, although ivc called them
"BotStep" controllers, whatever that is. Very very similar to RAMPS
overall, although I guess that makes some kind of sense. Why reinvent
the wheel when you can just build on it.

ddurant - I can imagine this only taking a couple months. This is
essentially the realization of the Makerbot Wave prototype.

--Matt--

On Jan 9, 10:31 pm, Aaron Double <aad...@gmail.com> wrote:
> John,
>
> Sorry about all of those prints... you could go full tilt and print webca's panels and have a FULLY printed cupcake:-)
>
> Aaron Double
>
> On Jan 9, 2012, at 9:17 PM, JohnA. wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Oh, I fully expect that people will print replacements.   Hell, one of
> > my Cupcakes is more printed than original at this point:
>

> >http://www.flickr.com/photos/jabella/5629789758/in/set-72157626520721...

[Charles Edward Pax]

Ryan,

Ouch. It stings a little to hear someone ask if the source files will
be posted. MakerBot Industries is fully committed to Open Source
Hardware and Open Source Software. Better questions would be where and
when.

All Replicator source files will be available on Thingiverse before
the hardware is shipped. We've been developing The Replicator in
SolidWorks, so we'll also post STL files for the injection-molded
parts. As we've dealt with manufacturers we've had to make technical
drawings for many of the parts, so we'll post those too. The laser cut
files will also be there along with the electronics. Don't worry,
we'll post everything we have. That's over 650 MB of data!

Charles Edward Pax
MakerBot Industries
Director of Research & Development
87 3rd Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11217

[jkittle]

Don't take this the wrong way, Charles - but - when you've got a new
product on the horizon that will displace your current mainstream
product, and you're within a month or so of release - let the
customers know 'something is coming'. I've owned my TOM less than 30
days - and while I'm learning a lot and having a lot of fun, it would
have been nice to have had the opportunity to make an educated
decision of whether to wait for 'whatever' was coming, or pull the
trigger. That said, I understand that you can wait forever to own the
latest and greatest, but then you'd never be printing anything. I can
tell that based on just the photos alone, you guys are learning a ton
from user feedback and enhancements, and I'm seeing those concepts
make their way into new designs. Top notch job, keep up the good
work - but lets try and improve the communication, mmmkay?

Josh

[Wil Chung]

Btw, for those of you that ordered a Thingomatic, and wanted to upgrade to the replicator...

https://twitter.com/#!/makerbot/status/156517601726562305

Wil

Wil Chung
Blog: http://iamwil.posterous.com/

Twitter: http://twitter.com/iamwil

[r...@n.rix.si]

It was an honest question, my good man, no need to get offended, I meant more "where and when" than "if" so thank you for the answer. :)

r

-- Sent from my Palm Pre. Pardon the html mail

---

On Jan 9, 2012 22:04, Charles Edward Pax <charl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ryan,

Ouch. It stings a little to hear someone ask if the source files will
be posted. MakerBot Industries is fully committed to Open Source
Hardware and Open Source Software. Better questions would be where and
when.

All Replicator source files will be available on Thingiverse before
the hardware is shipped. We've been developing The Replicator in
SolidWorks, so we'll also post STL files for the injection-molded
parts. As we've dealt with manufacturers we've had to make technical
drawings for many of the parts, so we'll post those too. The laser cut
files will also be there along with the electronics. Don't worry,
we'll post everything we have. That's over 650 MB of data!

Charles Edward Pax
MakerBot Industries
Director of Research & Development
87 3rd Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11217

On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 19:45, Ryan Rix <r...@n.rix.si> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Will the Replicator have the parts' source available online for those who want
> to print and build their own Replicator a la
> http://wiki.makerbot.com/thingomatic ?
>
> r
>

>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 17:57, Chris Wundram <wun...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I agree on the unassembled kits.  The familiarity that you get with
>> > the machine by putting it together gives you the confidence to fix it,
>> > mod it, etc.
>> >

>> > On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Chris Gilmer <chris....@gmail.com>

>> >> group at http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.>

>> > --
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>> > make...@googlegroups.com.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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>> > at http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.
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> --

> Ryan Rix -- http://rix.si
> == OpenSource.com: Where Open Source Happens! ==
>   _
>  \/"/_ All Hail the Beefy Miracle!
>  /_/
>  \ \

[Charles Edward Pax]

Oh I know. I'm just having fun with it.

Cheers

[Ryan Rix]

More specfically, now that I'm not replying from a phone:

The question was more in an effort to get those complaining about the lack of
available kits to realize that there's still nothing to stop them from
building their own replicator, they'd just have to source the parts
themselves. Hell, if someone thinks there's enough of a market for it, they
could go in to business selling non-trademark-infringing Replicator kits
themselves.

r

[MauiMaker]

On Jan 9, 10:34 am, "dec...@shanaghy.com" <dec...@shanaghy.com> wrote:
> Strange logic that you wouldn't want one because of that.
>
> Once you get it, you cant take it apart and then put it back together.
> Double the fun!

Great idea! Once its out we need to create a take-apart-rebuild page
on the wiki!

I wonder if I should bother trying to redirect my cupcake and upgrade
to mk8 extruder, etc.

[Marcus Wolschon]

Let's see what issues of the ToM look fixed based on the photos:

* the insifficient grip of the MK6/MK6+ extruder on the filament -
can't be seen
* the missing thermal barrier above the heater block - can't be seen
* the structural issues with the toolhead mounting - MAY be fixed of
both sided are designed to handle such weight with the device being
transported in any orientation but incompatible with any existing
toolheads
* the missing way to switch to their other toolheads without
completely disassembling all cables - not fixed. No plugs for the
toolhead's cables or quick chance mechanism for toolheads visible.
* the expanding ABP belt - no ABP seen
* the missing tensioning device for the ABP belt - no ABP seen
* the missing leveling device for ABP and HBP platform - no such
leveling visible
* the missing lights for the shadowy work area - fixed, no more
working in the shadow
* the way too small build volume - fixed but device now too big to
transport in existing containers

[Marcus Wolschon]

On 9 Jan., 23:07, ddurant <dduran...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Although it moves the print head(s) around on X/Y and the platform on Z,
> there does seem to be some big differences with this vs Ultimaker. The bit
> thing that catches my eye is that they're moving the extruder motor(s)
> around on X/Y which means a lot more moving mass, which probably means
> isn't not going to go overly fast and be able to keep quality.

Yes but that also means that tall and slender printed objects no
longer detach from
the belt/HBP due to all the shaking as they gain mass. That was a huge
improvement
witht he Ultimaker. Let's hope the mountings for these 2 bars are up
to the task of holding
2 steppers and hot-ends without twisting after a few years of use.

[Landis Fields]

Hey Dave (or anyone else) is it a hardware limitation that keeps the
makerbot from hitting 20 microns or software?

[Rob Giseburt]

ABS. It can't really do it.

-Rob

[Eric Smith]

jkittle <josh.kit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Don't take this the wrong way, Charles - but - when you've got a new
> product on the horizon that will displace your current mainstream
> product, and you're within a month or so of release - let the
> customers know 'something is coming'.

Sure, as customers we all what that. Nevertheless, that's exactly
what they *shouldn't* do. That's what put Osborne Computer
Corporation out of business, or at least a major contributing factor.
They announced a newer, better product, and customers stopped buying
the current product. Without the cash flow, the company went under.
I'd far rather have MakerBot Industries manage their business in a
sustainable way.

If you bought a Thing-o-Matic recently, you apparently thought it was
a good value for the money. That hasn't changed. No one is taking
any additional money out of your pocket, or reducing the functionality
of your Thing-o-Matic.

[JohnA.]

When does support for the ToM end?


JohnA.

> >> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 17:57, Chris Wundram <wund...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > I agree on the unassembled kits.  The familiarity that you get with
> >> > the machine by putting it together gives you the confidence to fix it,
> >> > mod it, etc.
>

> >> > On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Chris Gilmer <chris.gil...@gmail.com>

> >> >> group athttp://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.>

> >> > --
> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> >> > "MakerBot Operators" group. To post to this group, send email to
> >> > make...@googlegroups.com.
> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> >> > makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group

> >> > athttp://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.

> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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> >> make...@googlegroups.com.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> >> athttp://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.
> > --

> > Ryan Rix --http://rix.si

[Andrew Plumb]

Has support for the Cupcake ever really ended? ;)

Andrew

Sent from my iPhone

[ddurant]

> Hey Dave (or anyone else) is it a hardware limitation that keeps the
> makerbot from hitting 20 microns or software?

Like Rob says, ABS probably isn't the best material choice for it - PLA is a lot happier about being spread so thin.

 

The mechanical bits on the machine can prevent you from getting really high resolution stuff but I think most machines can do fairly high resolution, with a bit of lovin'. Existing MBI machines might have problems at 0.02mm with the way the platform moves and is held to the x/y axis with magnets - there's a bit of slop that can do bad things at such tiny layer heights. Doesn't take much to go wrong to trash a 0.02mm print.

[Ben Garvey]

"It's really a slap in the face to all the people who have supported them"

For $2000, I will send you a disassembled Replicator. 10 week delivery

:)

Ben

On 1/9/2012 3:28 PM, SpeedBump wrote:
> Is it really only available assembled? That ruins it for me.
> Assembling my ToM was much of the fun for me. I don't think I want one
> if I can't put it together. It's really a slap in the face to all the
> people who have supported them.
>
> On Jan 9, 12:23 pm, Batto<kenshinhamur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> my guess would be both parts and trying to grow a bit outside of the
>> maker niche. A lot of schools and libraries are wanting these pre-
>> built, so having a more consumer friendly store allows them to cater
>> to them more easily.
>>
>> And honestly, while building it is fun, I don't think that having to
>> buy pre-built will slow down the modding community much!
>>

>> On Jan 9, 3:01 pm, Stan Seibert<s...@mtrr.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I'm a little worried about the ever-increasing price of each MakerBot
>>> generation. The Cupcake was ~$900, the Thingomatic was ~$1300, and
>>> now the Replicator at $1750? I know improving the performance can't
>>> happen for free, but my income is not growing at the same rate as the
>>> MakerBot price tag. :)
>>

>>> After getting the store page up (getting hammered!), I see that this
>>> kit (as mentioned in the video) is only offered in a pre-assembled
>>> form. That makes the $1750 price tag more understandable, but I would
>>> love to have a DIY Replicator kit available at the ToM price point of
>>> $1300 or less.
>>
>>> Is the reason for no kit option because this device now requires some

>>> (even more) special skills to assemble, or is the support burden of a

>>> kit too much to handle with the customer growth of MakerBot?
>>

[Charles Edward Pax]

Landis,

From The Replicator store page, "Positioning precision: 2.5 micron on
Z axis 11 micron on XY axes". These are hardware limits given the step
angle of the motors and either the pulley diameter or the lead screw
pitch.

Charles Edward Pax

[ddurant]

> From The Replicator store page, "Positioning precision: 2.5 micron on
> Z axis 11 micron on XY axes". These are hardware limits given the step
> angle of the motors and either the pulley diameter or the lead screw
> pitch.

 

So about twice what MBI advertises for the ToM, those these are all "theoretical limits"..

 

Since a lot of people seem to be curious about such things, maybe you could share some info on what sort of prints have actually been done on a Replicator or even what your goals were in terns of resolution & speed when you were designing it..

[Bill Culverhouse]

Underwood did .01 with ABS.

 

-b

[RyanP]

Considering how finicky my cupcake has been at times over the last 2
year, I welcome a modestly more expensive, professionally assembled
and tested machine. Still, its a bit sad that the ABP had to go.

My only worry is at the rising cost of plastic with the new machine
requiring 1.75mm extruders (makerbot prices them the same though). I
know these compromises have to be made so new users have a great
experience. I suppose I'll live!

On Jan 10, 2:20 am, Marcus Wolschon <marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

[SpeedBump]

I know I gripped a lot yesterday. I really would have preferred a
kit ... But I bought one anyways.

[Luis E. Rodriguez]

Great list, LOTS of improvements as I looka t the schematics etc, I attempted some answers below to think out loud. Have you seen this: http://beta.ivc.no/wiki/index.php/MakerBot

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 1:17 AM, Marcus Wolschon <marcus....@googlemail.com> wrote:

Let's see what issues of the ToM look fixed based on the photos:

* the insifficient grip of the MK6/MK6+ extruder on the filament -
can't be seen

 

MK7 and thingiverse mods have "fixed" this.

 

* the missing thermal barrier above the heater block - can't be seen

 

Not needed in MK7

 

* the structural issues with the toolhead mounting - MAY be fixed of
both sided are designed to handle such weight with the device being
transported in any orientation but incompatible with any existing
toolheads

 

MK7 mounting plate is solid but only in person evaluation will show that

 

* the missing way to switch to their other toolheads without
completely disassembling all cables - not fixed. No plugs for the
toolhead's cables or quick chance mechanism for toolheads visible.

 

Aside from thermocouple, an easy mod I've done since Makergear's extrduers fiurst came out.

 

* the expanding ABP belt - no ABP seen

 

Belt material warped as we know but a solid and cool concept that I hope returns or some user refered to the open-source plans and does the work for us.

 

* the missing tensioning device for the ABP belt - no ABP seen
* the missing leveling device for ABP and HBP platform - no such
leveling visible

 

Most likely fixed with the new z platform and plastic mold injected pieces, again many things existed to make that easier.

 

* the missing lights for the shadowy work area - fixed, no more
working in the shadow

 

Easy fix with wiring straight to PSU and use of LED's 

 

* the way too small build volume - fixed but device now too big to
transport in existing containers

 

Existing pelican case? I suppose but it looks like a ToM on it's side. 

[Ethan Dicks]

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 7:49 AM, Andrew Plumb <and...@plumb.org> wrote:
> Has support for the Cupcake ever really ended? ;)

With the recent "Grab Bag" clearance, I'd say that as a product, you
aren't going to be able to get much vendor support for the CupCake
anymore (yes... I bought grab bags and I'm happy I did)

That said, because the designs are Open Source, we are free to make
our own replacement parts and share improvements - far better terms
than Dell or HP are offering for products they stop making. What
really matters is when the general population of bots isn't dominated
by active CupCakes... then the users stop innovating and the model is
truly obsolete.

-ethan

[Luis E. Rodriguez]

My cupcake works like gen4 electronics (minus thermocouple) with this thing! http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:11837 and with things like the lowrider and z-rider you can trick it out pretty heavily! Long live the cupcake! Still a valuable tool to show people what it's all about, donate to a school or library or hackerspace if you upgrade!

Luis E. Rodriguez

Are you a Maker?

-ethan

[Shane Graber]

My big fear is that I bought a cupcake last year on the Father's Day sale and that one of the gen3 electronics will burn out on it and I'll be stuck having to upgrade to Gen4 electronics for everything. Is there somewhere online that sell gen3 electronics independent of MBI (in case they ever quit carrying it).

Shane

--
Shane 

[Far McKon]

SpeedBump:
Just for you, we will do a kit!

Put a note on your order to ' "This is a Far McKon' Special". See Far
McKon for info/details' and I'll personally see to it you get a kit
only. This offer goes to the rest of you too, and involves me
calling in a favor or two (since we assemble the bot to test all
components, then will dis-assemble it to ship to you).

The assembly instructions that our tech's use will be public on our
docs site, so you can build it yourself based on exactly our own how-
to we use in-house (as per our open as can be style).


yarrr, hack on,
- Far McKon

Desktop Lead and Nerd Herder
MakerBot Industries





On Jan 9, 4:52 pm, SpeedBump <internetspeedb...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Far, does that definitely mean you will not be offering a kit
> version?

>
> On Jan 9, 1:33 pm, Far McKon <farmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 9, 3:01 pm, Stan Seibert <s...@mtrr.org> wrote:
>
> > > I'm a little worried about the ever-increasing price of each MakerBot
> > > generation.  The Cupcake was ~$900, the Thingomatic was ~$1300, and
> > > now the Replicator at $1750?  I know improving the performance can't
> > > happen for free, but my income is not growing at the same rate as the
> > > MakerBot price tag.  :)
>

> > Yeah, that's the release price. It's 2x the build space, but it is a
> > couple of hundred more. Sorry :( Of course, over the lifetime of the
> > product (like any product) the prices drop slowly, and this holiday
> > season the TOM was down to $999 for a while.  I (think) the assembled
> > Replicator is cheaper than the assembled Thing O Matic, if I recall
> > correctly.
>

> > > the support burden of a
> > > kit too much to handle with the customer growth of MakerBot?
>

> > Good guess on that.  It's support burden, It's that & 'lets avoid over-
> > their-head new people getting frustrated'. We wanted to make sure that
> > first print out of the box was right, and save new folks the burden of
> > an assembly they 'misunderestimated'.  Like the hobby computer market
> > turning into Desktop market in the '70's and 80's, as you grow DIY
> > kits become unsustainable.   At some scale it just makes sense to sell
> > everything pre-assembled, pre-tested, and pre-checked for quality
> > control.
>

> > Of course, our software is still all Open Source, our hardware is
> > still all open source, etc. It's as hackable as ever, but that first
> > out of the box print is that much faster and easier.
>

> >  hack on,
> > - Far McKon
>
> > Desktop Lead and Nerd Herder
> > MakerBot Industries

[Luis E. Rodriguez]

Kind-hearted donors have liquidated and sold to folks here and something like this saves space and upgrades you at the same time, also dramatcially reduces noise. There are several versions even a protoboard version. But this is so handy: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4526

Luis E. Rodriguez

Are you a Maker?

[Far McKon]

Hey Chris,

> I would buy one of these if it came unassembled at $1500.  I stand> with a lot of other people that building it up from a kit was more> than half the fun.

For quality control, we want to assemble and test all bots here. We
had way too may 'missing one screw' or extruder boards that were mis-
manufacutred, and worked 90%, but failed mid-print. We really have to
test each component, and the best way to do that is by assembling it
in a bot, and printing with it. So (as I mentioned in this thread a
second ago) if you really, really, really want a kit bot, throw a note
in it as a 'Far Special' and I'll cash in some favor and get them
disassembled before shipping. Or even just disassemble your bot
myself,  over lunch.

> Where do we find the open source plans for this thing?  I want to look at them.Plans will be released on Thingiverse, like we do for all bots. We need to do a little cleanup, but in the next 2-3 weeks (before initial bots get shipped out) the plans will be on Thingiverse for all to see!

hack on,- Far McKon

Desktop Lead and Nerd HerderMakerBot Industries

On Jan 9, 5:37 pm, Chris Gilmer <chris.gil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I'm actually excited to see if people make a quadstruder on top of> this new platform.  Four colors is better than two for sure.>

> > Chris> > On Jan 9, 2:23 pm, Stan Seibert <s...@mtrr.org> wrote:> > > > > > > > > On Jan 9, 4:33 pm, Far McKon <farmc...@gmail.com> wrote:> > > > On Jan 9, 3:01 pm, Stan Seibert <s...@mtrr.org> wrote:> > > > > I'm a little worried about the ever-increasing price of each MakerBot> > > > generation.  The Cupcake was ~$900, the Thingomatic was ~$1300, and> > > > now the Replicator at $1750?  I know improving the performance can't> > > > happen for free, but my income is not growing at the same rate as the> > > > MakerBot price tag.  :)> > > > Yeah, that's the release price. It's 2x the build space, but it is a> > > couple of hundred more. Sorry :( Of course, over the lifetime of the> > > product (like any product) the prices drop slowly, and this holiday> > > season the TOM was down to $999 for a while.  I (think) the assembled> > > Replicator is cheaper than the assembled Thing O Matic, if I recall> > > correctly.> > > Yes, for an assembled MakerBot printer, this is a price cut.  I never> > considered buying a pre-assembled 3D printer before, so it stretches> > my price threshold a bit compared to the kit products I'm used to.> > Effectively, my "early adopter discount" was ~$500 for being willing> > to deal with kits rather than pre-assembled stuff.> > > > > the support burden of a> > > > kit too much to handle with the customer growth of MakerBot?> > > > Good guess on that.  It's support burden, It's that & 'lets avoid over-> > > their-head new people getting frustrated'. We wanted to make sure that> > > first print out of the box was right, and save new folks the burden of> > > an assembly they 'misunderestimated'.  Like the hobby computer market> > > turning into Desktop market in the '70's and 80's, as you grow DIY> > > kits become unsustainable.   At some scale it just makes sense to sell> > > everything pre-assembled, pre-tested, and pre-checked for quality> > > control.> > > Yeah, that's fair.  It will just take us (existing MakerBot operators)> > a while to internalize that, especially when we had all gotten used to> > the DIY kit product model (and DIY kit pricing).  I expect that places> > like MakerGear (and soon Printrbot) will continue to service the> > bottom end of the price spectrum with kits while you guys compete with> > pre-assembled printers.> > > > Of course, our software is still all Open Source, our hardware is> > > still all open source, etc. It's as hackable as ever, but that first> > > out of the box print is that much faster and easier.> > > Which is nice to see, and I agree that Open Source Hardware doesn't> > have to imply kits.

[TheBFR]

How long will the TOM continue to be sold? I would not mind having a
second printer.

[Stan Seibert]

A related question: Will the rest of the Gen4 electronics come back
into stock in the MakerBot store? I've been considering upgrading my
Cupcake to run the MK6+ or 7 extruder, but needed to upgrade the
electronics before doing that. If the Gen4 electronics are never
coming back, then I will have to hope that the Replicator electronics
are eventually sold separately, or try the daughterboard hack for the
Gen3 motherboard.

[SpeedBump]

Far,

That's a remarkably generous offer. Makerbot has always taken good
care of me. Now I feel guily for making such a fuss. I placed my order
this morning for the dual extruder model. As someone here pointed out,
I can always take it apart and put it back together again myself. No
need to interrupt your lunch or burn up any favors on my account. I
look forward to getting my new 'bot in six weeks or so. Thanks
again.

[Luis E. Rodriguez]

Do the hack for gen3 and you will be happy. I too want the "mighty board"!

Luis E. Rodriguez

Are you a Maker?

[Matt Smollinger]

Yeah, decided I really want one. Too bad I'm buying a house next
month. Hopefully thats enough time for the bugs to get worked out :)

--Matt--

On Jan 10, 4:13 pm, "Luis E. Rodriguez" <lrodriguezm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Do the hack for gen3 and you will be happy. I too want the "mighty board"!
>
> Luis E. Rodriguez
>

> Are you a Maker? <http://www.makerfairekc.com/>

[Luis E. Rodriguez]

Every new house NEEDS a Replicator™ don't they!?

Luis E. Rodriguez

Are you a Maker?

[PittsburghTOM]

I am new to Makerbot.

I bought my TOM about 8 weeks ago as a holiday present. It took about
2 weeks of off and on building with my 12 year old son and discussion
with the very good staff at MBI to troubleshot everything. The kit was
fine with the exception of a bad heater board (trace problem) as well
as a bad stepper board (also a trace problem). As a noob I did have
trouble making the ribbon cables, and indeed bad ribbon cables turned
out to be one of my problems. Everything now works great, and I love
the TOM. My son has started a business printing 3D objects for his
friends in school.

I got so into this, making pretty good prints fairly quickly, that I
started investigating more. I found out about the Ultimaker, and
realized that it potentially solves a lot of the problems that the TOM
in theory has, most importantly for me being build time, potentially
being able to handle PLA a bit better (at least what you read on the
net), and a larger build platform.

So looking at the Replicator, it seems that they took a lot of the
open source design elements from the Ultimaker and incorporated them
into their newest iteration. They also took out the ribbon cable issue
with the Mighty Board.

My question is now for those who want to take their printing to the
next level: Ultimaker or Replicator? It seems that the Ultimaker may
still print faster, has a larger (but non-heated) build platform, and
the stepper motors are not part of the extruder head (as they seem to
be in the Replicator). Also, you can build it yourself, which for me
was 75% of the fun so far. They are roughly the same price when you
work out the currency conversion.

Thoughts, anyone?

[Benjamin]

> Too early to tell, I think. The only thing they've shown so far is the
> globe athttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY6VSu-oOws. Looks like what we
> usually see from MBI - maybe .35mm layer or so layer height..
That globe was sliced at 0.2, if my records are accurate.
For ABS, heights between 0.2 and 0.3 work very well, you can of course
go higher to increase speed, but the tradeoff is highly visible.
Smaller than that and the plastic becomes tricky to work with in a
variety of ways.
PLA has very different properties, and can be extruded at much smaller
layer heights. As open source slicers begin to rival Netfabb's
alacrity and slice height, we can push the layers down.

[ddurant]

> That globe was sliced at 0.2, if my records are accurate.
> For ABS, heights between 0.2 and 0.3 work very well, you can of course
> go higher to increase speed, but the tradeoff is highly visible.
> Smaller than that and the plastic becomes tricky to work with in a
> variety of ways.

 

I think you can get a bit more (or, rather, less) out of ABS.. http://wiki.makerbot.com/hall-of-fame-highest-resolution (I am SO surprised that MBI hasn't taken that down!) was done on a Cupcake with a MK4. I've got pictures somewhere of a Cupcake doing 0.08mm layers with ABS but that was with a non-MBI stepper extruder.

 

Neil Underwood recently hit 0.01mm layer heights using ABS on a MakerGear Prusa (https://plus.google.com/u/0/110900759695819888399/posts/V94YZrNEkSN). Personally, I didn't think that was possible with ABS but I'm more likely to doubt my findings/assumptions than I am to doubt what Neil says he did.

> PLA has very different properties, and can be extruded at much smaller
> layer heights. As open source slicers begin to rival Netfabb's
> alacrity and slice height, we can push the layers down.

 

I'm not sure the software really has much to do with it.. Neil was using slic3r but I've printed down around 0.05mm with PLA & skeinforge, no problem. Netfabb does have nice features and is quite fast but any slicer can chop things up into tiny layers.

 

(I'll also be taking Neil's crown away, once I get around to it..)

[Eric Palmer]

PittsburghTOM

I'm not sure yet about either but will be paying attention as people get experience with the Replicator.

I'm in a similar situation. We got out TOM at XMAS and my daughter (13) did 98% of the assembly.  I've done a lot of printing so far and she has done some. She is studying to get into a special school and will start doing more design work in February.   We were lucky that our assembly went well. We had no bad parts but we did waire up some things wrong and has to diagnose and fix those. 

Our print quality is outstanding.  I have a friend with a MK6+ (bought in june) and our print quality seems better but I have not done a side-by-side comparison yet.

My daughter and I are very interested in what your son is printing and selling? We are looking towards doing that as well. What an awesome experience for our kids. 

Eric Palmer
Richmond va
eric   AT   ericfpalmer.com

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[Erwin Ried]

Maybe they don't have plans to make the instructions about how to
assemble it due the rush :D hehe I can assemble one and make
instructions ;) if MBI provides the printer HAHA

On 9 ene, 19:57, Chris Wundram <wund...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree on the unassembled kits.  The familiarity that you get with
> the machine by putting it together gives you the confidence to fix it,
> mod it, etc.
>
>
>

> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Chris Gilmer <chris.gil...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I would buy one of these if it came unassembled at $1500.  I stand
> > with a lot of other people that building it up from a kit was more
> > than half the fun.
>

> > I'm actually excited to see if people make a quadstruder on top of
> > this new platform.  Four colors is better than two for sure.
>

> > Where do we find the open source plans for this thing?  I want to look
> > at them.
>

> > Chris
>
> > On Jan 9, 2:23 pm, Stan Seibert <s...@mtrr.org> wrote:

> >> On Jan 9, 4:33 pm, Far McKon <farmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On Jan 9, 3:01 pm, Stan Seibert <s...@mtrr.org> wrote:
>
> >> > > I'm a little worried about the ever-increasing price of each MakerBot
> >> > > generation.  The Cupcake was ~$900, the Thingomatic was ~$1300, and
> >> > > now the Replicator at $1750?  I know improving the performance can't
> >> > > happen for free, but my income is not growing at the same rate as the
> >> > > MakerBot price tag.  :)
>
> >> > Yeah, that's the release price. It's 2x the build space, but it is a
> >> > couple of hundred more. Sorry :( Of course, over the lifetime of the
> >> > product (like any product) the prices drop slowly, and this holiday
> >> > season the TOM was down to $999 for a while.  I (think) the assembled
> >> > Replicator is cheaper than the assembled Thing O Matic, if I recall
> >> > correctly.
>

> >> Yes, for an assembled MakerBot printer, this is a price cut.  I never
> >> considered buying a pre-assembled 3D printer before, so it stretches
> >> my price threshold a bit compared to the kit products I'm used to.
> >> Effectively, my "early adopter discount" was ~$500 for being willing
> >> to deal with kits rather than pre-assembled stuff.
>

> >> > > the support burden of a
> >> > > kit too much to handle with the customer growth of MakerBot?
>
> >> > Good guess on that.  It's support burden, It's that & 'lets avoid over-
> >> > their-head new people getting frustrated'. We wanted to make sure that
> >> > first print out of the box was right, and save new folks the burden of
> >> > an assembly they 'misunderestimated'.  Like the hobby computer market
> >> > turning into Desktop market in the '70's and 80's, as you grow DIY
> >> > kits become unsustainable.   At some scale it just makes sense to sell
> >> > everything pre-assembled, pre-tested, and pre-checked for quality
> >> > control.
>

> >> Yeah, that's fair.  It will just take us (existing MakerBot operators)
> >> a while to internalize that, especially when we had all gotten used to
> >> the DIY kit product model (and DIY kit pricing).  I expect that places
> >> like MakerGear (and soon Printrbot) will continue to service the
> >> bottom end of the price spectrum with kits while you guys compete with
> >> pre-assembled printers.
>

> >> > Of course, our software is still all Open Source, our hardware is
> >> > still all open source, etc. It's as hackable as ever, but that first
> >> > out of the box print is that much faster and easier.
>

> >> Which is nice to see, and I agree that Open Source Hardware doesn't
> >> have to imply kits.
>

[Matt Smollinger]

Erwin - Far@MBI posted in another thread they'll be posting assembly
instructions once they post all the other files so people can start
fabbing their own replicators. That will be in a couple days once
they've cleaned up the solidworks files.

Looking forward to people making transparent Replicators. That moving
head is gonna be awesome to watch run around. :)

--Matt--

[sto...@gmail.com]

Very Cool DADs!

Sounds good with your kids.

Our first bot was built by my 11 & 13 yr old boys And I in March during a redeye 15 hour blast.

They've since designed a water pump inlet and exhaust for a sous vide, a screen door handle, roman numerals for a clock, and a saxophone mouthpiece and cover. Plus, some failures. Oh, all the above parts work GREAT!

Keep it up Dads! Our kids are rockin the sharp edge of a New World.   :-)

Brian - bots #003765 & 003253
bstott2002 @ yahoo dot com
Pittsburgh too.....

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[sto...@gmail.com]

Far, in a post yesterday, said MBI would make kits on request and supply access to all MBI tech manufacturing/assembly docs.

No worries. If you buy Far stated that you put in the remarks that per Far McKon the kit is a go.

----- Reply message -----
From: "Erwin Ried" <erwi...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:30 am
Subject: [MakerBot] Re: Makerbot Replicator

[PittsburghTOM]

He started with custom Android figures in multiple colors. Now he is
on to selling the alligator clips. Whatever the 12 year old male mind
thinks is cool...

[Kendall lui]

It seems that the z is the platform and the X and y is like ultimaker.
I thought originally they were afraid of moving the extruder all
around.

On Jan 9, 12:40 pm, "Luis E. Rodriguez" <lrodriguezm...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I wonder if this means a new level of quality? How many errors result from
> user error? I do it regularly! Maybe a "pro kit" will surface. Does the
> extruder rest on the x and y gantry like a dimension or ultimaker or does
> the Z slide? Seems like it does but can't tell yet. I realize the no kit
> option doesn't seem very "makery" but it does seem like a more professional
> company. Did you see how many parts were plastic mold injected!? Thsi will
> be interesting to see played out.

>
> Luis E. Rodriguez
> Are you a Maker? <http://www.makerfairekc.com/>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Eldoreth <kristof.lam...@skynet.be> wrote:
> > I hope that MBI will still carry the parts for the ToM like a mk8 as
> > an upgrade.
> > The new replicator is clearly targeted at another public.
> > Still happy i can build my own and mod it. A bigger build platform
> > would be nice though...
>
> > Kristof

[Kendall lui]

THis ressembles the original makerwave they have been designing even
before the Thing-o-matic

On Jan 9, 1:06 pm, Matt Smollinger <m.smollin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's definitely a lot more complicated of a device. It's very similar
> to the ultimakers, as the X/Y axis now moves the extruder head, just
> like on the ultimakers.
>
> Initial Impressions:
>
> - Curious to see how much faster it is. The Mk8 does not appear to be
> a bowden-style setup, so flinging dual extruder heads around could
> make for some decent weight. However I've yet to be able to grab the
> press kit for some higher-res images (dang overloaded web server), so
> I can't be sure they didn't move to a bowden setup.
> - Strange build size. 9x6x6? That's smaller than most of the repraps,
> and the ultimakers. Also not sure what the reasoning was for making it
> rectangular, other than not have it stick out so far on a desk.
> - Isn't this actually *less* expensive than an assembled ToM? Last
> time I checked they were 2k+ to get pre-assembled. Not saying this
> isn't inexpensive, but it looks like they are trying to deal with
> support issues, and become less of a "kit" company. By only selling
> pre-assembled kits, you can QA everything out of the gate to make sure
> its working before you ship it.
> - I hope they got acceleration & look-ahead in the new firmware. The
> reason the ultimaker's are quick is because the firmware is smart
> enough to know when it can be fast and when not to be.
>
> Overall it's a good move on their part. Yesterday, I could buy an
> unassembled ultimaker for about $1550 US (pre-shipping), and then
> spend a weekend putting it together (maybe more). Now MBI at least has
> a good competitor, and hopefully the firmware to back it up.
>
> So how long until someone puts up a model on thingiverse to print a
> loaf of bread? :)
>
> --Matt--

>
> On Jan 9, 3:28 pm, SpeedBump <internetspeedb...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Is it really only available assembled? That ruins it for me.
> > Assembling my ToM was much of the fun for me. I don't think I want one
> > if I can't put it together. It's really a slap in the face to all the
> > people who have supported them.
>
> > On Jan 9, 12:23 pm, Batto <kenshinhamur...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > my guess would be both parts and trying to grow a bit outside of the
> > > maker niche. A lot of schools and libraries are wanting these pre-
> > > built, so having a more consumer friendly store allows them to cater
> > > to them more easily.
>
> > > And honestly, while building it is fun, I don't think that having to
> > > buy pre-built will slow down the modding community much!
>

> > > On Jan 9, 3:01 pm, Stan Seibert <s...@mtrr.org> wrote:
>
> > > > I'm a little worried about the ever-increasing price of each MakerBot
> > > > generation.  The Cupcake was ~$900, the Thingomatic was ~$1300, and
> > > > now the Replicator at $1750?  I know improving the performance can't
> > > > happen for free, but my income is not growing at the same rate as the
> > > > MakerBot price tag.  :)
>

> > > > After getting the store page up (getting hammered!), I see that this
> > > > kit (as mentioned in the video) is only offered in a pre-assembled
> > > > form.  That makes the $1750 price tag more understandable, but I would
> > > > love to have a DIY Replicator kit available at the ToM price point of
> > > > $1300 or less.
>
> > > > Is the reason for no kit option because this device now requires some

> > > > (even more) special skills to assemble, or is the support burden of a

> > > > kit too much to handle with the customer growth of MakerBot?
>

[Kendall lui]

Does anyone know what filament size the mk8 extruder is? It looks like
3mm but I'm not sure. Are they going back to the standard?

[Rob Giseburt]

The Mk8 extruders on there are the same as Mk7s, but with a slightly different nozzle shape, so this uses 1.75mm filament exclusively.

  -Rob

—

MakerBot Operator

Member of CCCKC Hackerspace

Member of KC Fabricators Google Group

[Jordan Miller]

no worries, you can always get a RAMPS board from ultimachine. that one board can replace all gen3 or gen4 electronics... less expensive too! and it takes Marlin firmware FTW.

jordan

[Jordan Miller]

those are theoretical limits, yes? what about actual printing? and what is the standard deviation? I can assure you it could be several orders of magnitude off from those theoretical, calculated values.

if you peeps at Makerbot want to send me some official high res prints, i'd be happy to put them under the microscope (literally) like I did for Ultimaker:
http://www.hive76.org/insane-3d-printing-resolution-ultimaker-under-the-micro

jordan

On Jan 10, 2012, at 9:05 AM, Charles Edward Pax wrote:

> Landis,
>
> From The Replicator store page, "Positioning precision: 2.5 micron on
> Z axis 11 micron on XY axes". These are hardware limits given the step
> angle of the motors and either the pulley diameter or the lead screw
> pitch.
>
> Charles Edward Pax
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 03:18, Landis Fields <landis...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey Dave (or anyone else) is it a hardware limitation that keeps the
>> makerbot from hitting 20 microns or software?

>>
>> On Jan 9, 2:57 pm, Chris Wundram <wund...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I agree on the unassembled kits. The familiarity that you get with
>>> the machine by putting it together gives you the confidence to fix it,
>>> mod it, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 9, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Chris Gilmer <chris.gil...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I would buy one of these if it came unassembled at $1500. I stand
>>>> with a lot of other people that building it up from a kit was more
>>>> than half the fun.
>>>
>>>> I'm actually excited to see if people make a quadstruder on top of
>>>> this new platform. Four colors is better than two for sure.
>>>
>>>> Where do we find the open source plans for this thing? I want to look
>>>> at them.
>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>
>>>> On Jan 9, 2:23 pm, Stan Seibert <s...@mtrr.org> wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 9, 4:33 pm, Far McKon <farmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>

>>>>>> On Jan 9, 3:01 pm, Stan Seibert <s...@mtrr.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> I'm a little worried about the ever-increasing price of each MakerBot
>>>>>>> generation. The Cupcake was ~$900, the Thingomatic was ~$1300, and
>>>>>>> now the Replicator at $1750? I know improving the performance can't
>>>>>>> happen for free, but my income is not growing at the same rate as the
>>>>>>> MakerBot price tag. :)
>>>

>>>>>> Yeah, that's the release price. It's 2x the build space, but it is a
>>>>>> couple of hundred more. Sorry :( Of course, over the lifetime of the
>>>>>> product (like any product) the prices drop slowly, and this holiday
>>>>>> season the TOM was down to $999 for a while. I (think) the assembled
>>>>>> Replicator is cheaper than the assembled Thing O Matic, if I recall
>>>>>> correctly.
>>>
>>>>> Yes, for an assembled MakerBot printer, this is a price cut. I never
>>>>> considered buying a pre-assembled 3D printer before, so it stretches
>>>>> my price threshold a bit compared to the kit products I'm used to.
>>>>> Effectively, my "early adopter discount" was ~$500 for being willing
>>>>> to deal with kits rather than pre-assembled stuff.
>>>

>>>>>>> the support burden of a
>>>>>>> kit too much to handle with the customer growth of MakerBot?
>>>

>>>>>> Good guess on that. It's support burden, It's that & 'lets avoid over-
>>>>>> their-head new people getting frustrated'. We wanted to make sure that
>>>>>> first print out of the box was right, and save new folks the burden of
>>>>>> an assembly they 'misunderestimated'. Like the hobby computer market
>>>>>> turning into Desktop market in the '70's and 80's, as you grow DIY
>>>>>> kits become unsustainable. At some scale it just makes sense to sell
>>>>>> everything pre-assembled, pre-tested, and pre-checked for quality
>>>>>> control.
>>>
>>>>> Yeah, that's fair. It will just take us (existing MakerBot operators)
>>>>> a while to internalize that, especially when we had all gotten used to
>>>>> the DIY kit product model (and DIY kit pricing). I expect that places
>>>>> like MakerGear (and soon Printrbot) will continue to service the
>>>>> bottom end of the price spectrum with kits while you guys compete with
>>>>> pre-assembled printers.
>>>
>>>>>> Of course, our software is still all Open Source, our hardware is
>>>>>> still all open source, etc. It's as hackable as ever, but that first
>>>>>> out of the box print is that much faster and easier.
>>>
>>>>> Which is nice to see, and I agree that Open Source Hardware doesn't
>>>>> have to imply kits.
>>>

>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MakerBot Operators" group.
>>>> To post to this group, send email to make...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.

>>>> For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.

[Landis Fields]

Thanks everyone for the info!! The makerbot and ultimaker community
are terrific. It's great to be surrounded by people who are passionate
about bringing 3d into the "real" world. As much as I want the
replicator to be capable of the resolutions of the ultimaker it sounds
like regardless of what I will use to slice (netfabb, etc.) the
replicator just can't push the resolution that the ultimaker can
achieve. The replicator sounds like an amazing box. Bre and the gang
really knocked one out of the park and I think most people if not all
Will be happy and want what this does. Sadly I need high resolutions
that are somewhat comparable to commercial machines (atleast that of a
lower end dimension) and the ultimaker's 20 micron prints from Dave
Durant and Florian make my mouth water. Im going to have to stick with
the Ultimaker. Im so happy to be a part of such an exciting time. If
the replicator gets an upgrade for software and stepper motors to
cater to the small group of people like myself that are after
resolution then I'm the first in line (along with my fellow 3d concept
art sculpting buddies). It's clear that MBI and Ultimaker are leading
the revolution right now. Keep up the great work!! Man I am going to
be envious of the dual extrusion for support material. Hopefully
Ultimaker will get that soon.

-Landis



On Jan 10, 1:35 pm, "Luis E. Rodriguez" <lrodriguezm...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Every new house NEEDS a Replicator™ don't they!?
>
> Luis E. Rodriguez

> Are you a Maker? <http://www.makerfairekc.com/>
>

[ddurant]

> As much as I want the
> replicator to be capable of the resolutions of the ultimaker it sounds
> like regardless of what I will use to slice (netfabb, etc.) the
> replicator just can't push the resolution that the ultimaker can
> achieve.

 

To be fair, and as much as I love my Ultimaker, which is a most awesome machine, I don't think we know what the Replicator can do yet. Until some get out into the wild or MBI starts talking more about this stuff, it's an unknown. Several people have asked about it but all we've heard is the theoretical limit, which doesn't mean a lot in reality.

 

MakerGear Prusa has the record right now at 0.01mm (10 micron) layers. At this point (under 25 microns or so) who has the record is more about bragging rights than actual, real benefits and I plan on taking the record back to the Ultimaker camp once I get some spare time..(this is not to minimize that the MG Prusa can do such resolution - it's quite an accomplishment and shows (yet again) how well MG gear works!)

[Landis Fields]

Dave (and anyone else),
Sweeeet!!! So you would say the resolution is as good (currently a
little better until you get em' back..hehe) than the ultimaker?! I had
no idea that the prusa was that ninja! Would it still be beneficial to
slice in netfabb using a prusa? Is netfabb even compatible with the
prusa to print direct or jus slice? A buddy and myself are thinking of
building a scaled up prusa so we have a large build size (maybe 4 feet
by 4 feet). He is a ninja at building extremely complex machines and
rigs for our film shoot so don't be alarmed by my silly beginner
questions, he will be heading the build...hehe..I just want to know
which model (prusa, ultimaker, etc.) to scale up. The prusa offers all
of the parts for order which is nice where as the ultimaker only
offers a complete kit which is wasteful to the rods and case (frame)
since we will be building a larger aluminum one.

Thanks ahead of time!!

[ddurant]

>  So you would say the resolution is as good (currently a 

> little better until you get em' back..hehe) than the ultimaker?!

 

Resolution (in this context) is a tricky term.. SpaceX's blog post is here: http://blog.reprap.org/2011/12/001-layer-height-on-prusa-mendel.html , so I'll let you judge for yourself. Personally, and I admit my bias, I think it shows a bit more z wobble than I'd be happy with but it's certainly not bad.. :) It's a MakerGear Prusa too, so the quality you can get with that machine may be better than you could get with self-sourced parts or ones from other places. MG makes a very nice machine, if you're looking for a Prusa.

 

> A buddy and myself are thinking of building a scaled up

> prusa so we have a large build size (maybe 4 feet by 4 feet)

 

That's a pretty big machine!! For something that large, you're talking days, possibly *weeks*, to complete a really large print at high resolution..

 

Seriously, bias aside, an Ultimaker-style machine might be be better with something that big. Or maybe something like a Replicator that carries the extruder motor around on X/Y, though carrying the Y stepper around too isn't (IMO) a great idea.. If you do a Mendel-style machine like a Prusa, you'd have to move that big honkin' build platform back and forth all the time, which could get tricky since it needs to be planar with the extruder and have zero wobble. See also: http://www.rep-up.com/2011/12/utilimaker-is-alive.html

 

For buying parts, I'd get a RAMPS board (ultimachine.com is a good source in the US) if you can do it (I am NOT one to ask about electronics) then just source everything else yourself. The rods and belts and pulleys and motors and just about everything else is going to need some thought to make sure it'll work on such a scale..

 

That's not to scare you or try talking you out of it... I want pictures and blogs posts as it makes progress!!

[Mark Cohen]

I believe the mendelmax is easly scalable.

Sent from my iPhone

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[ddurant]

> I believe the mendelmax is easly scalable.
 

But it's moving the build platform and the print around all the time, which I think makes doing higher resolutions harder.

 

Picture a 5lb spool of plastic. Picture a 16 square foot build platform. We're potentially talkin' about a considerable amount of weight here..

 

With an overhead X/Y, the load on those axes don't change at all during the build. You've got to have a beefy Z axis but it's just moving down a few steps at a time, at the end of each layer. Since the rods and motors and such are all going to need to be big (aka: heavier), you can put the extruder motor on the printhead and not really lose any speed.

 

Nothing against MendelMax - they're cool machines. I just think an overhead X/Y would be better if you're really scaling things up like Landis is talking about.

[Landis Fields]

Awesome guys!! I will DEFINATELY share our progress. I was wondering
what printers out there (other than ultimaker) have a build platform
that is constrained to the z axis AND that has "good" resolution (.
02mm -.01mm).

-Landis

[Landis Fields]

....also, is there a way to get a list of parts from the ultimaker so
I can pick and chose the parts I need (like their controller board,
stepper motors, etc)?

Thanks ahead of time everyone!!

-Landis

[Charles Edward Pax]

Landis,

The Replicator has an 8 mm Z rod pitch, a 200 steps per revolution motor, and 1/16th stepper drivers. This gives 0.0025 mm per 1/16th step along the Z axis as the theoretical maximum.

[Landis Fields]

Is Ultimaker's electronics custom to them or are they using someone
elses reprap boards? If so is there a benefit to using one board over
another or can u throw a makerbot board in an ultimaker? Just curious.

On Jan 26, 5:11 am, Charles Edward Pax <charles....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Landis,
>
> The Replicator has an 8 mm Z rod pitch, a 200 steps per revolution motor,
> and 1/16th stepper drivers. This gives 0.0025 mm per 1/16th step along the
> Z axis as the theoretical maximum.