Filtering ABS fumes

[Garth Kidd]

I'd like to be able to run my printer indoors. I'm not comfortable
stinking the house out with ABS fumes. Would pulling air through a
charcoal filter help? How about 3M Filtrete™? Some other VOC filter
used in respirators?

– Garth

[Mike Payson]

There was some discussion of using activated carbon/activated charcoal
(they are the same thing) air filters a while back. Search the
archives for "DIY Carbon Filter". I even designed a printable carbon
filter that I hope to print someday but have not yet gotten around to
(I print PLA, so have not yet been terribly motivated to make an air
filter).

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5128

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[Garth Kidd]

Thanks, Mike. I might end up the first person to try this and go to
the bother of posting a result. :)

[Bob Sponsler]

Hey Garth, I am going through the same thing and have been working on
something that I plan to put up on Thingiverse once I get it all
sorted out. It's a lot of work and expense but it is extremely
effective...

What I've done so far.

Got a bunch of the cheapest ($3.00) acrylic panels at home depot they
are thin and around 10x12 or something - I forget but you just need
something about 1 inch larger than your openings.

Using a plexiglass knife score and break until you have 4 panels of
(about an inch bigger than openings I can't check myself as I am
currently putting my son to bed).

With 4 m3x10's or 12's for each panel bolt one to the sides and back
(I then hit glued the nuts so I can remove and replace the panels
easily. I am working on a thing that turns an m3 into a thumb screw to
make it easier.)

For the front I got some cheap and small hinges from hd and hinged it
at the top. (the ABP will periodically open it slightly during prints
and at the end - still working on somehing for that.

For the top it gets a little more complex (and pricey).
You want some more cheap acrylic to fit into your window (like a short
air conditioner) (oh yeah and your bot needs to be within 6 ft
Get a bathroom exhaust fan kit at home depot (I just got one for about
20 bucks) make sure it includes the square plastic grill.
Get a length of 3or4" air duct (like for a clothes dryer) (there is
probably a kit right by the fans with the adapters and rings - 7
bucks)
With your scrap acrylic, the plastic grate from the fan kit and 4x
thing #9688 Make a box with an open bottom (this just happens to fit
exactly the opening on the top. - be sure your exstruder is all the
way up when you measure!
- get a variable speed control for the fan! All the way on will make
it so drafty in your bot that your prints will all be gelatinous balls
of ABS from all the warping.
There is a sweet spot at about 30% power for me that is enough to just
barely suck the front door closed and hold a tiny bit of tension but
not make the interior windy. Print calibrate repeat
Oh yeah run the duct to the acrylic panel in your window to vent it
outside - but that was obvious right?
Anyway that's what I did.
Am currently rebuilding my bot after an OCD bender of connectorizing
everything and rewiring. While I did that I hot glues all the bolt
holes and obvious openings in the build chamber.
If you maintain just a tiny bit of vacuum inside the build chamber, he
negative airflow will prevent any fumes from getting out. I have mine
running all night in a tiny home office and can't smell a thing. Once
I get the time I'll take pics and Thingiverse it. I just need to
figure out a good solution for that front door issue

Cheers!
Bob

[Zip Zap]

I just keep my windows wide open.  I still smell the fumes but relatively use to it.  Then again, I might end up developing a brain tumor later in life.

---

From: Garth Kidd <ga...@garthk.com>
To: make...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, July 9, 2011 2:08:30 AM
Subject: Re: [MakerBot] Filtering ABS fumes

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[Garth Kidd]

I'm getting old, and my cells aren't dividing so fast, but I've got
three kids in the house and a newborn on the way. Filling the house
with chemicals some people reckon are carcinogens just doesn't seem
that smart. 'sides: it stinks, stinky stuff has to go outside, and
it's pretty bloody cold outside at night.

– Garth

[Garth Kidd]

Bob, full credit for top-hinging the front and building a box on top
to fully enclose it.

Did you plug the cable holes at the top of the right side?

– Garth

[Dan Christian]

I had good results with a soldering fume sucker - which is just a fan
and some activated carbon foam.

The main feature of the fume sucker was that it adapts the fan outline
to the opening on the makerbot. You could easily print a similar
adapter. The TOMs look like they are designed to mount a fan to one
side. I used a 3 speed 120mm fan and power it from a spare 12V output
on the extruder board.

I hinged the fan to the back of the makerbot and covered the sides
with some scrap lexan (hangs off the screw heads). The front and top
are left open. It draws air through the filter, so there isn't a need
for a perfect seal.

-Dan

[Joe Kerman]

Try turning your print head temperature down in very small amounts.  ABS seems to have a bit of a sweet spot, where it extrudes nicely, yet doesnt stink.  It stinks dramatically more with temps over this amount too.

In a moderately ventilated "normal" room, the feint odor of ABS only goes a foot or two from my bot.

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[Bob Sponsler]

Hey Garth,
Yeah I went as far as plugging up the holes connecting the electronics
to the bot and hot glueing the screw holes in the build chamber. The
problem now is not fumes but curling from the draft. I haven't had a
chance to test since plugging the holes (I broke my thermocouple
during a rebuild). But I think the better plugged up it is the less
breezy it will be as well as greatly lowering the amount of power
needed for the exhaust fan. I want to make two half-boxes with
acrylic and make barn doors for the front and somehow throw in a servo
and write code for the doors to open when the ABP ejects. I thunk that
would look super cool and would solve the problem of the front panel
door opening whenever a build goes to far into -Y territory. But
first I need to fix my hot end. :)

[Jordan Miller]

if you go with a charcoal filter, be prepared to change it often. Solder fume extractors should mostly work, however cheap table-top ones were probably not designed for the huge amount of ABS that is being vaporized. For example, you might melt 0.5-1 gram of solder in one sitting, but for a good print session you will have melted 0.5-1 lb of ABS. The solder is not being constantly heated, either.

I prefer PLA. we don't know how carcinogenic PLA fumes are yet, but maybe they are less than ABS. Certainly it won't give you a headache like ABS will.

jordan

[The Ruttmeister]

> I prefer PLA. we don't know how carcinogenic PLA fumes are yet, but maybe they are less than ABS. Certainly it won't give you a headache like ABS will.
>

Well, we do... actually.

Google the MSDS for each. ABS contains acrylonitrile and styrene, the
first is a 'suspected' carcinogen, the second present in such low
quantities that it falls below the threshold for reporting of
'possible' carcinogens. Its gets more fun when you burn it.
HAZARDOUS DECOMPOSITION PRODUCTS: Styrene monomer, ammonia, hydrogen
cyanide, acrylamide, aromatic and aliphatic hydrocarbon fractions, and
carbon monoxide may be present. Carbon dioxide, an asphyxiant, is also
produced.

PLA by contrast contains no 'suspected' or 'possible' carcinogens. The
State of California lists it as not containing any toxins or
carcinogens that require those delightful labels. Its a bio-plastic
that in the correct formulations is rated for use inside the human
body as it can be broken down internally.
It is listed as an irritant, but its not clear if thats due to its
biochemical nature or its mechanical properties (its used as an
abrasive in some hand wash for example).

If you are concerned at all about toxicity then get PLA. It might be
bad for you if you set it on fire (although theres no specific
warnings on that), otherwise its about as safe a thermoplastic as
exists.

Plus Ultimachine have started stocking some bright colours!

[Ross Mosshart]

As a fun side note, PLA is exceptionally hard to get to keep burning, it will literally melt faster than you can set it on fire. It will burn if you have enough mass, but nothing compared to the ABS Bunny Torch.

[Jordan Miller]

This assumes we know the chemical makeup of natureworks PLA. Unfortunately it appears they have proprietary additives which are not listed. As far as I could tell it is not pure PLA because it does not degrade in glacial acetic acid even after many weeks. Maybe my degradation reaction was not the correct one. Does anyone know the claimed molecular weight of NatureWorks PLA? They have many different formulations, but I doubt they vary only in MW.

jordan

[ddurant]

> Does anyone know the claimed molecular weight of NatureWorks PLA?

 

Er.. 5 pound per spool?

[The Ruttmeister]

> This assumes we know the chemical makeup of natureworks PLA. Unfortunately it appears they have proprietary >additives which are not listed.

Anything that is harmful in any way has to be listed on the MSDS.
Thats the whole point of the MSDS. It doesn't need to list ratios or
anything like that. But if the Natureworks MSDS doesn't list any toxic
additives, then there arn't any.

[Ross Mosshart]

Also, proprietary means somewhere the ingredients are listed in detail, Patent office maybe?

[Ben Yarmis]

I guess this would be the appropriate time/place to ask... how stinky
is a TOM? For instance, would I be able to run it in a dorm room
without complaints from roommates/loss of braincells?

[Mike Payson]

With pla, most likely no problem depending on your roommate. Abs probably not.

[Ross Mosshart]

I would complain about ABS, it smells like burning styrofoam cups. PLA smells like a hybrid between maple syrup and fresh waffles.

On Jul 12, 2011 3:20 PM, "Mike Payson" <mikep...@gmail.com> wrote:

With pla, most likely no problem depending on your roommate. Abs probably not.

On Jul 12, 2011 1:14 PM, "Ben Yarmis" <ben.y...@gmail.com> wrote: > I guess this would be the ap...

[The Ruttmeister]

On Jul 12, 1:25 pm, Ross Mosshart <ross.mossh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would complain about ABS, it smells like burning styrofoam cups. PLA
> smells like a hybrid between maple syrup and fresh waffles.

Seconded!

After a while ABS fumes make me feel quite sick. PLA smells nice. If
you run PLA you only have to worry about noise complaints (but at
least its not a cupcake!)

[Ross Mosshart]

Cupcakes are surprisingly quiet at 70mm/s, but I agree, they are obnoxiously loud. The TOM is still the loudest machine on the market and I would say they are half as loud as a Cupcake.

On Jul 12, 2011 3:30 PM, "The Ruttmeister" <therutt...@googlemail.com> wrote:

On Jul 12, 1:25 pm, Ross Mosshart <ross.mossh...@gmail.com> wrote: > I would complain about ABS, i...

Seconded!

After a while ABS fumes make me feel quite sick. PLA smells nice. If
you run PLA you only have to worry about noise complaints (but at
least its not a cupcake!)

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[Aaron Double]

Go to 16th step for the drivers and you can have a phone conversation 2ft from it and the person on the line can't tell it's running.

I guess that's a bit off topic though, mmm, waffle smell!

Aaron

[Ross Mosshart]

Assembling my Sanguinololu tonight, so we'll see...

On Jul 12, 2011 5:05 PM, "Aaron Double" <aad...@gmail.com> wrote:

Go to 16th step for the drivers and you can have a phone conversation 2ft from it and the person on the line can't tell it's running.

I guess that's a bit off topic though, mmm, waffle smell!

Aaron

On Jul 12, 2011, at 4:49 PM, Ross Mosshart wrote:

> Cupcakes are surprisingly quiet at 70mm/s, but I agree, they are obnoxiously loud. The TOM is stil...

> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MakerBot Operators" gro...

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[David Smith]

How hot are your hot ends?  I'm extremely sensitive to a wide range of fragrances and aromas and I can sit right next to my bot for several hours of printing with no problems. Yes, I can smell some hot-plastic smell, but it's at such a low level that I would hardly characterize it as objectionable, and it's certainly not irritating my hyper-allergic airways.  I'm running at 225 C with a Mk6+ hot end.  Actual burning of the ABS would mean you are much too hot and would be dangerous.

Dave Smith

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[James McCracken]

I print between 220 and 230 most of the time (with a MG BigHead) - I've compared it with a half-degree (that's a half-degree F) accuracy IR thermometer @ 50-100 (C, not F) and the number reported in RepG is within 2 degrees of the IR measured temperature.  As long as you let it stabilize for five minutes, that is.  At first the surface temperature at the output port of the nozzle swings a bit (on the low side more than the high side - I'm guessing with the thermistor close to the heater and the output port on the far side of the thermistor, the nozzle takes a few more minutes to stabilize after the temps look steady in RepG)

I also am supersensitive to a variety of airborne pollutants.  I don't find the smell of ABS all that objectionable.

Every time I print with PLA, I get stopped up for two days.  This is between 170 and 190, depending on how fiesty I was feeling that day lolz