How do I remove screws without screw heads?

[Kobus du Toit]

I want to replace the extruder, but I don't know how to take it off

http://www.flickr.com/photos/92380311@N04/8636511313/

[Eighty]

Have you tried the two big shiny bolts across the top?

[Kobus du Toit]

Yep that is what I am talking about.  The indent is round, not an allen key

[Fastrack]

Those were the bolt heads.... 1.5mm Allen head would be my guess. So if you didn't strip them.., they were stripped by MBI.

You could always use a Dremel cutoff wheel and put a slot in the head.

Ben

[Kobus du Toit]

It looks pressed in or something like that.  It is perfectly round so seems it was designed this way so that a user can't take it off

How much do these motors cost?  I would not want to cut something off that is from a brand new 2x.  I might just buy 2 new motors without the extruder assembly and mount a new upgrade on it

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[Eighty]

I see some Allen recesses down in there. Can't get a bite on them?

Now I'm curious what other people's assemblies look like. Did these get stripped accidentally, or is MBI drilling them out t prevent people from reverse engineering the extruder? I'd like to believe the former, but those are some awfully smooth round-outs.

[delsydsoftware]

At my old employer, we used small left-hand-threaded drill bits with a reversable drill to remove stripped bolts like that. The bit would bite into the bolt and unscrew it with ease.

[Eighty]

You could try an easy out tool (http://www.harborfreight.com/12-piece-screw-extractor-set-40349.html ), if you really want to take it off. Then use regular M3 screws to put it back on.

The steppers are like $21 each or so. But you should be able to reuse these, unless MBI has done something really counterintuitive.

[Joseph Chiu]

Hmmm, when I look at those bolts, it looks like they have security bumps on them.  If that is indeed the case, you will need to get the right security bit.  Something like http://www.amazon.com/SE-Bit-Set-Security-33pc/dp/B0009U6AB4/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1365639120&sr=1-1&keywords=security+bits+set

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[PhGeis]

is the whpthomas extruder uprade gone fit? or which one are you going to install? Plan to switch mine to aluminium if possible.

[Kobus du Toit]

I modifies it. He is coming over the weekend to help out and I want to be ready

On 11/04/2013 6:54 PM, "PhGeis" <dr.p...@gmail.com> wrote:

is the whpthomas extruder uprade gone fit? or which one are you going to install? Plan to switch mine to aluminium if possible.

[Philipp Geis]

super please post the modds needed since you are the first lucky one having your 2x there to be modded and the whpthomas in person close to you!!

2013/4/11 Kobus du Toit <kobus...@gmail.com>

[Kobus du Toit]

Trying to print my cooler box design, but can't get past the first layer anymore

[Kobus du Toit]

This is how it looks on the inside if I open the motor

http://www.flickr.com/photos/92380311@N04/8639073345/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/92380311@N04/8639073625/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/92380311@N04/8640176256/in/photostream

Seems it might be possible to drill it out or use those tools easy out tools.  I went to our hardware store, Bunnings, as usual I walked out with nothing in my hands.  I can't remember when last they actually had anything I could use

[Philipp Geis]

If it is definatly a screw: I would cut a slot on the Head that you can use a standard screw driver (Dremel) or try to force a hex into it. If you want to remount the original extruder later you gone substitute it anyway with a proper screw. Drilling it out is just endangering the motor thread. 

2013/4/11 Kobus du Toit <kobus...@gmail.com>

This is how it looks on the inside if I open the motor

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[Kobus du Toit]

I bought a dremel type tool

http://www.flickr.com/photos/92380311@N04/8639148023/in/photostream

I was able to get the makerbot version off

http://www.flickr.com/photos/92380311@N04/8639178849/in/photostream

And my version on.  I had to use the tool to work some parts off from the new part.  I will see if I can get it working tomorrow

http://www.flickr.com/photos/92380311@N04/8639183721/in/photostream

[David Celento]

Kobus, backing up a bit, you wanted to replace it because you were having problems with the Rep2x extruder? Can you describe the symptoms? (Clicking? Stripping? Skipping? Air printing?). Normal speed or Accelerated?

If the design is not working right, that would be a real bummer.

IMPORTANT: While you're in there, remove the drive wheel to be sure the set screw fastens to the flat part (the "key") of the drive shaft! On Rep2 units, the key on the shaft has been (still is?) too short and the drive wheel screw is incorrectly seated on the round part and often slipping. You need to extend the key by filing, or with the Dremel. (Henry will surely check this if you can't, but be sure to tell him whether you checked and/or fixed this or not).

If you don't mind letting us know what you find, that would be much appreciated!

~Dave

[Fastrack]

Looks good.  Reading other posts... It's almost like MBI did this on purpose.. very odd.... Take a lot of pictures of the upgrade I'm sure others will be very interested!

Ben

[David Celento]

Tamper proof screws are undoubtedly a good idea for an "experimental" machine, right? ;-)

Reasonable questions are:

1. Who gets to experiment -- you or MBI?

2. Does "experimental" actually mean, may not meet expectations?

I give credit to MBI for this newly added label. At the same time, grow a bit concerned over its possible implications. Hoping to be pleasantly surprised, though (but am not counting on it)!

[Melody Brandston]

Hi Kobus,

I know the indents in the bolts on the Replicator 2X drive block look round, but they're not. The 2 mm hex wrench that came with your bot should be able to remove those. Have you tried that? If the bolts are in fact stripped, open up a support ticket and let us know. You're definitely supposed to be able to remove those if you need to.

That said, is the drive block replacement you're installing one that was designed for a Replicator 2? Because the 2X drive block and bar mount are wider, and unless the replacement drive block was designed with the 2X in mind, I'm guessing the filament guide on the replacement block won't line up with the thermal barrier tube on the bar mount.

Melody Brandston

Documentation
MakerBot Industries
melody.b...@makerbot.com

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[David Celento]

Hi Melody,

Your checking in on this issue and identifying what should be the case is greatly appreciated.

So you know, there is something "wrong" with these screws (at least on the Replicator 2). Neither the supplied allen wrench, nor SAE wrenches fit these screws correctly. I can see how this can easily lead to stripping of the head. I have had great difficulty in removing these screws and also have received a Rep2 (for Norwich University) with a head that was unable to be removed due to a stripped bolt from MBI -- we, too, had to use a dremel to remove the screw.

Thank you for clarifying and listening.

Best regards,

David Celento

[Count Spatula]

I was able to remove mine with the included wrench but there were also some other hex heads that had been stripped out during assembly.

Also, for future reference, these screw extractors work great on hex heads:
http://www.amazon.com/Drill-Out-Power-Extractor-7017P/dp/B00006690T

They're pricey but way better than the traditional 'spiral' versions.  You can sometimes find them sold individually.  If you do use them make sure to pulse the drill slowly with good downward force, don't go full blast.

[Joseph Chiu]

It does sound like someone is assembling these bolts with their power drivers set to the wrong torque setting.  (And the tool probably is worn, exacerbating the problem.)

[Count Spatula]

I should add that I have not found any security screws on the 2X.

As far as the new extruder, I like it in theory. It uses a flip lever so there is a locked and unlocked position which makes it easier to load/unload.  There is also a set screw/spring set up which adjusts the tension on the bearing.  However, I have been having a lot of extruding problems that remind me of the delrin plunger and so far I have not determined the cause.  I have a suspicion that the tension adjustment screw works it's way loose and plan on trying some loctite (425, plastic safe) on it.  This may not be the cause but want to narrow it down.

 

[Joseph Chiu]

Yeah, it's clear now that what I saw was not a security nub.

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 1:04 PM, Count Spatula <counts...@gmail.com> wrote:

I should add that I have not found any security screws on the 2X.

As far as the new extruder, I like it in theory. It uses a flip lever so there is a locked and unlocked position which makes it easier to load/unload.  There is also a set screw/spring set up which adjusts the tension on the bearing.  However, I have been having a lot of extruding problems that remind me of the delrin plunger and so far I have not determined the cause.  I have a suspicion that the tension adjustment screw works it's way loose and plan on trying some loctite (425, plastic safe) on it.  This may not be the cause but want to narrow it down.

 

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[Kobus du Toit]

I  redesigned the extruder upgrade. I have to replace my extruders. No matter how much I change thex grub screw the extruder doesn't grab the filament strong enough. The video from makerbot says turn the screw until you can feel the motor grabbing onto the filament, that doesn't happen. When the print starts I normally have to push the filament throught to get it going. I might be able to print something once and then not again for a day or two. I don't know if it is the outside temperature making the filament soft. It is about 30 degrees C in the house in the evening

Well we will see. I first removed he left extruder so now I have two right extruders. Need to get new screws this morning. Maybe I can even get a print going with the right one. It is nice and cool, but seems it might rain so high humidity. I do see steam coming out of the filament. I might also try my dried out filament that I left in my biltong box for the past two weeks

[David Celento]

These are nice, Count Spatula.

Note that the small ones are VERY easy to break when using a drill! (ask me how I know).

If you can chuck them into something that you can use by hand, I'd suggest that first (such as a tap and die set)

[David Celento]

I encountered a few of these bolts that were in perfect shape, but still wouldn't work properly with either mm or SAE allen wrenches.

My conclusion is that whoever is manufacturing them has a tolerance problem -- the allen hole is too large; thus, stripping is caused when the proper tool is used. Obviously, a power tool would only exacerbate the stripping.

Methinks MBI needs to check these bolts and if they are out of tolerance, get them from a new vendor if it can't be corrected pronto.

[Kobus du Toit]

I am printing

So the doctor said don't put the q-tips in your ears, so I put it in my extruder :)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/92380311@N04/8641891842/in/photostream

http://www.flickr.com/photos/92380311@N04/8641890662/in/photostream

Next version will have 1 or 2 less q-tips, they will not be supplied with the kit

Also q-tips aren't just good for fixing an extruder, it is great at leveling your 2X

http://www.flickr.com/photos/92380311@N04/8641891284/in/photostream

[Eighty]

Please tell me that's not ear wax on the q-tip under your bot!

[Kobus du Toit]

lol no

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Eighty <adun...@gmail.com> wrote:

Please tell me that's not ear wax on the q-tip under your bot!

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[PhGeis]

Hi Kobus... just thinking: If you make some kind of heat reflectiv layer (silver-gold rescue cover?) between the extruder/driveblock and the Hotend would that be possible? meaning to have some Isolation attached on the bottom of the drivegear with just a tiny hole where the Fillament is pushed through. Therefor reducing the radiation heat from the hotend having impact on the fillament and the driveblock.

next step would be to have an activ cooling at that spot. Dont have an clueright at the moment if this is possible or just an awkward idea since my 2x did not arrive yet.

[JohnD]

Kobus -

Did you remove the shaft and stator from the stepper housing?! If so, that's what is know as a "bad thing". 

On Thursday, April 11, 2013 12:12:00 AM UTC+1, Kobus du Toit wrote:

I want to replace the extruder, but I don't know how to take it off

http://www.flickr.com/photos/92380311@N04/8636511313/

[David Celento]

Agreed that heat soak might be the bigger problem you're encountering. 

~Dave

Sent from mobile device inspiring brevity and/or typos...

[Philipp Geis]

You Meran Heat creeping within the fillament? Where is the transition point of ABS or PLA? How hot has the filament to get to change its strength/hardness to be effected? 

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

[David Celento]

Yup. PLA filament starts to melt at about 180•C. Not sure at what temp it softens, and is vulnerable to stripping, but it stands to reason that this is a good deal lower.

ABS melting point is higher at 215•C. (Both temps according to reprap.org)

[Kobus du Toit]

I believe my extruders where low quality.  Even with q-tips pushed into areas I was able to print better than with the original extruders.  I have gone through a couple iterations of the extruder already, hopefully this print is my last and best version.  It is great to actually be able to print and this is what rapid prototyping is all about

JohnD I did, thank you for telling me.  At least if something did go wrong it would have been $25 university costs.  Glad nothing went wrong so far

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 9:02 PM, David Celento <dcel...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yup.  PLA filament starts to melt at about 180•C. Not sure at what temp it softens, and is vulnerable to stripping, but it stands to reason that this is a good deal lower.

ABS melting point is higher at 215•C. (Both temps according to reprap.org)

[David Celento]

Great progress, Kobus.

Was the drive shaft key long enough for the drive motor set screw to be properly seated?

[JohnD]

Kobus - it screws up the magnetic fields on the stators - there are companies that specialize in "fixing" this in more expensive steppers,  The end result is orders of magnitude less torque - and as you say, on these it's cheap and trivial to just replace the stepper if need be.

[Kobus du Toit]

The drive shaft seems fine.  Not sure how good the teeth are on the wheel on the shaft.  I have seen welding equipment where they use a V to drive the filament through.  The V seem to make more contact than what we have.  I know nothing so I am just observing here.  I think Jetguy said once this wheel was actually designed for 3mm filament, not 1.75 filament.

Well the upgrade of wingcommander with my changes seem to work.  He is a genius.  I hope to be able to post the modifications soon

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 9:23 PM, David Celento <dcel...@gmail.com> wrote:

Great progress, Kobus.

Was the drive shaft key long enough for the drive motor set screw to be properly seated?

[Eighty]

The picture I've seen of a Rep2X drive hear looked straight, as you suggested. That's odd, because the Rep2 drive gear is curved inwards to cup the filament. But a roller nearing doesn't tuck into it very well. Maybe that's why they went to the straight version.

[Kobus du Toit]

IR done like IR Baboon :)

Please have a look at http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:73119

Still some improvements I want to do, but at least I can print now.  I started the next print from a cold start and I came to upload the "thing" and write this mail, I didn't even need to jump start the extruder to start printing.  I just went to have a look and the printer is, hmmm, PRINTING :)  What a strange concept for me

I am not too happy about the arm flapping in the wind, but I can't extrude the arm.  My Solidworks shows the part as an external import and I can't make much changes to it.  I can make holes through it so I will add a hole through it and have a bolt and nut keep the arm against the base.  It is probably a good thing, because when I have my cooler bracket done I want the air to get in there so if I extruded the arm I would have less of a gap for the air to get into

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:16 PM, Eighty <adun...@gmail.com> wrote:

The picture I've seen of a Rep2X drive hear looked straight, as you suggested.  That's odd, because the Rep2 drive gear is curved inwards to cup the filament.  But a roller nearing doesn't tuck into it very well.  Maybe that's why they went to the straight version.