Replicator Arm Upgrade

[Bottleworks]

Would anyone be interested in replacement Replicator HBP arms made out of aluminum?  I'm going to make a set for myself.  If there is great interest, many can be made.  If you are interested, what reasonable price range would keep you interested?  Realistically...

For those who are wondering why different arms?:  The arms tend to warp and sag because of the heat of the HBP.  Better arms will keep you from re-leveling the HBP all the time. 

[drando...@gmail.com]

I would be interested in seeing what they look like. I've cut out flat plates out of aluminum to stabize mine but if you have milled the designs I would be interested and I would think a price for a milled set of arms of $100 would be worth it. $150 if you included plates and a 3 point level solution.

[Dan Newman]

On 20 Oct 2012 , at 9:58 PM, Bottleworks wrote:

> Would anyone be interested in replacement Replicator HBP arms made out of
> aluminum? I'm going to make a set for myself. If there is great interest,
> many can be made. If you are interested, what reasonable price range would

> keep you interested? Realistically…

Depends upon what all is part of the "package". But I wouldn't be surprised
if it was more than $100. (Just a set of four *good* bearings can easily
run > $25.)

> For those who are wondering why different arms?: The arms tend to warp and
> sag because of the heat of the HBP. Better arms will keep you from
> re-leveling the HBP all the time.

I'd be interested. But this is also a potential opportunity to improve the design.
Things to at least think about

1. move to a three point leveling system (or a setup that allows you to setup either
a 4pt or a 3pt)

2. A fastening system for the Aluminum build plate that better allows it to expand
when it heats up. A rigid fastening system causes the thermal expansion to have
to "escape" into the third dimension and hence the crowning or sagging in the center.

3. Maybe the bearings should be spaced out a little farther along each rod? Or
different bearings.

4. Are those slightly larger diameter Z rods we see in the pictures of the Replicator 2?
Not too sure if that's necessary or not.

5. Additional mass to help reduce vibration.

6. Maybe even a vibration dampening system. (To do that, you need to understand better
the sources and frequencies of the vibrations.)

7. Gather the ideas from folks who have already made effective improvements in their
Replicator build platforms. (Well, that's in part what you're doing with your post.)

[happyman]

I am in for one if the price is right :D My Rep1 arms and wood piece below HBP are warp and sag- making it difficult to print large work.

[Martin Galese]

I would be very interested, particularly if it took account of some of the features that Dan mentioned -- most notably, I think, a 3 point leveling system and a more stable platform.  I'd probably be willing to pay at least $100--maybe more if it's nicely tweaked.  Perhaps a Kickstarter or an Indiegogo?

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Martin Galese

[Hammerhead]

Interested, yes.  Can I afford it?  Depends.  ;-)

[Chuck Joga]

Yes.  Depending on price.

-Chuck

[Cymon]

Sorrt, what part of the HBP do we call the "arm" now?

[Gary Crowell]

Yup, 100+.

On Oct 20, 2012 10:58 PM, "Bottleworks" <bottlew...@gmail.com> wrote:

Would anyone be interested in replacement Replicator HBP arms made out of aluminum?  I'm going to make a set for myself.  If there is great interest, many can be made.  If you are interested, what reasonable price range would keep you interested?  Realistically...

For those who are wondering why different arms?:  The arms tend to warp and sag because of the heat of the HBP.  Better arms will keep you from re-leveling the HBP all the time. 

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[Bottleworks]

So, I'm talking about producing aluminum arms that replace the two black arms that sag.  You would reuse your bearings and the wood.  Your welcome to modify your unit to 3 point leveling.  I will also be doing that.  I don't see the benefit of getting rid of the wood.  The issues that we have been having seem to be isolated to the plastic arms.  They warp and sag.  The bearing holding sections don't hold the bearing well.  Are some seeing issues with the wood components? 

[Martin Galese]

Seems there there are three main issues people are having, two leveling and one vibration:

1. Plastic arms sag when heated;
2. four-point leveling system is over-constrained;
3. overhanging mass of platform causes vibrations at higher speeds.

It definitely seems like aluminum arms could solve #1.  And it might be that a small redesign of the arms could help with #3 as well -- but maybe not.  It's a fair point though that #2 does seem like a different issue than the arms.

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[Gerald Orban]

I'm interested 100%! The prices discussed seem reasonable.

[Clinton Hoines]

100% interested :)

[DavidM]

Interested.

[RocketSled]

I have a Taig CNC and have been thinking about the same kind of mod.  But cutting totally new all-Aluminum arms is a lot of removed/wasted material to hog out from a ~1" thick piece of stock.  Instead, I think I've decided to make flat "L" shaped 3mm-thick plates with some short "tines" every couple of inches, bent at 90º to engage the front/back (for the vertical portion) or top/bottom (for the horizontal portion) of the existing plastic.  Longer cap screws for the current attach points could be used to hold the plates on.  This would allow the plates to be attached without disassembling the Z-stage.  And it will use a lot less Aluminum. 

The arms don't need to be all that stiff I think, since the mechanical excitation is all relatively low frequency.  

I've also been thinking about 3 point leveling.  It seems to me that the mounting point triangle doesn't need to be oriented in any particular way relative to the arms.  The front edge is what needs the most constrained, so I was thinking of just removing one of the rear adjusting screws/springs.  The three that remain are a triangle just the same as if there was only one screw in the center back edge. The HBP appears to be stiff enough that the unconstrained corner shouldn't be a problem, though it might want a soft rubber grommet as a damper to keep it from vibrating.

[Dan Newman]

> I've also been thinking about 3 point leveling. It seems to me that the
> mounting point triangle doesn't need to be oriented in any particular way
> relative to the arms. The front edge is what needs the most constrained,
> so I was thinking of just removing one of the rear adjusting
> screws/springs. The three that remain are a triangle just the same as if
> there was only one screw in the center back edge. The HBP appears to be
> stiff enough that the unconstrained corner shouldn't be a problem, though
> it might want a soft rubber grommet as a damper to keep it from vibrating.

From a usage point of view there's two takes on where to put the 3 points

1. Convenience: put two in front on each side and one in back on the centerline.
Rationale being you don't have to reach in back as much.

2. Safety: put one in front on the centerline and two in back on the sides.
Rationale: your not reaching underneath a heated surface -- you can approach
from the sides in back and the front in front.

Dan

[Bottleworks]

IMO, I would suggest having two in the rear and one in the front. 

So, in regards to the topic, I'm going to get some numbers together.  Maybe set this up in a kickstarter.  The tentative idea is to cast blanks and mill them.  The waste will end up recycled/reused.    The part of the arm where the bearings are held will be redesigned. 

[Richard]

20 -40 dollars if you could demonstrate no warping. I worry about the
aluminum warping, what would a material like Delrin (?) Cost?Material

[Richard]

I was thinking $20-50 max depending on design unless you had to
machine each one manually


On Oct 21, 12:11 am, "da...@avidquestion.com"

[Bottleworks]

Umm, You feel aluminum will warp at 120C (or less)?

[delsydsoftware]

I've been using my 3-point leveling mod for a few weeks now, and I would never go back to the 4 point system. It seems to work really well, and I can level the platform with just a feeler gauge and the default scripts.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!searchin/makerbot/3$20point/makerbot/eA8cUAkHRxc/p1wr_fy5veoJ

Sometime soon, I'm going to take the HBP off and document the build process. It's not hard to do, as long as you have a drill and a couple hours.

[Andy]

Looking forward to seeing this come together! Thanks for making this happen.  Consider me in for a set if they can stay warp free, kickstarter account at the ready.  I would also love to see a HBP that avoids the crowning as Dan described as well, but hey, one step at a time... :)

-Andy

On Oct 21, 2012, at 2:41 PM, Bottleworks <bottlew...@gmail.com> wrote:

IMO, I would suggest having two in the rear and one in the front. 

So, in regards to the topic, I'm going to get some numbers together.  Maybe set this up in a kickstarter.  The tentative idea is to cast blanks and mill them.  The waste will end up recycled/reused.    The part of the arm where the bearings are held will be redesigned. 

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[Elbot]

Some types of aluminum warps when heated, too. What kind of alloy will you be using? I hope you're not using melted aluminum cans and casting them on "Gingery home foundry". If it is machined aluminum alloy that is resistant to warping when heated and is strong enough to be whacked by a fist and still not bend, yeah, I'd buy it.

[Bottleworks]

6061.  What problems in your personal experence have you had with your "Gingery home foundry" and your background in casting?

[Joseph Chiu]

You know you're a maker (or at least a wannabe maker) if you've bought Gingery books!  :)   I bought most of them when I was few years out of college.  Never made it to a home where I could set up a foundry in the back...  

There's a neat lost-PLA casting of the classic Yoda with Gingery aluminum pour...  Fun!  http://boulderhackerspace.com/2012/08/18/lost-pla-aluminum-casting/

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[Richard]

Has anyone looked at using exising aluminum rail extrusions that are
readily available at low cost, and vey stiff?

[Sean Tu]

Warp might not be the right word here. It will expand when heated though and that can cause problems, especially if you have different cross sectional areas along the length of the Al arms. With everyone pushing for 100 microns or less this may be a problem.

Of course this would probably be solved by leveling the platform when it's at temp and everything is heat soaked or insulating the tops of the things with ceramic tape. If nothing else any deformation of the Al should not be as permanent or great as the compromised ABS pieces.

Until someone builds a set I guess we really won't know so I say do it and see what happens. The worse that could happen is you learn something and then move on to an improved v2.

[Ticko]

I'm interested if it works well.

[Elbot]

Nothing wrong with gingery foundry, but alum cans r dangerous n makes a slaggy mess due to liquids expand to steam exploding alum. Also, plastic n paint on cans emit tox fume. burnt Plastic pockets
make it weak.

[Jack Coats]

Sounds like making cans into 'ingots' on a first melt. Then using
ingots to melt to make any final 'product' might help.

[Bottleworks]

Absolutely, however, to get back on topic, they will be made with 6061 Alloy. Not from cans.

[Sean Tu]

Other thing I was wondering was the weight. Probably not a problem for the stepper and being heavier might actually help but I would be curious what the difference from the ABS parts would be, and how it affects the printing.

Maybe I'm too far into the rapid prototyping end just because I sit in too many meetings where we could have just tried an idea to see what happens instead of spending even more time talking about why it might not work, and never really getting out of the starting block.

On Oct 22, 2012 6:33 PM, "Bottleworks" <bottlew...@gmail.com> wrote:

Absolutely, however, to get back on topic, they will be made with 6061 Alloy. Not from cans.

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[Bottleworks]

Weight is a concern for sure.  Plastic is lighter and aluminum arms will be heaver with out a doubt.  Won't know how heavy until testing time. 

[Gary Crowell]

I've got some OpenBeam here, and it looks like it wouldn't be hard to double up the plastic arms with a bolted on 'Beam support.  Anyone see any problem with that?  Anyone think it would help?

Gary

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[Bottleworks]

Please do! If your willing, please take some before and after measurements of the bed sag.

[Gary Crowell]

Took another look.  A pair of arm supports would take almost a full length (meter) of OpenBeam, and that weighs about 275 grams.  Plus corner brackets and nuts/bolts, so I'm thinking the whole thing would total about 300 grams.  While doing some routine prints over the next few days, I'm going to add that weight to the platform and see if it causes any problems.

Gary

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 7:58 PM, Bottleworks <bottlew...@gmail.com> wrote:

Please do!  If your willing, please take some before and after measurements of the bed sag.

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[RocketSled]

The Z-stage stepper moves down during a print.  Weight on the Z-stage simply reduces the torque required for the stepper to move the stage downward. It won't be a problem unless you really go nuts and the downward force from gravity exceeds the holding torque of the motors.  But I think you'll find if you enable the steppers and push down on the Z-stage it'll be almost impossible to move.  IMO, the Z-stage could take a lot of weight and not care.

I was originally thinking I needed L shaped brackets to tie the horizontal arm to the vertical part at the back of the stage.  But now I'm thinking some Aluminum corner stock laid along the horizontal arms will work fine.  The gusset where the horizontal and vertical features meet at the back of the stage is well away from the HBP and doesn't seem to get very warm.  The sag that occurs when the HBP heats up has got to mostly be along the portion of the arm directly under the HBP (and I'm not so sure it's actually sag.  I'm thinking the heat from the HBP causes the upper surface of the horizontal arm to expand and that bows the arm downward as a result).  It should be just that part of the arm under the HBP that needs to be stiffened. 

There are two Cap screws that hold the horizontal arms to the plywood baseplate.  Extending them so they captured the Aluminum rail, then the plastic arm, and then the ply baseplate might be enough.

[happyman]

I just come across a mod Replicator 1 in instructables website  http://www.instructables.com/id/Jules-Verne-3D-Printer/

 

The person had replaced the plastic arm with metal parts as well as adding something like heatsink to the print bed, seem very nice. This is like a solution to all the issues that we have been discussing in this topic. Too bad, not much detail is given yet - as it is still work in progress.

[Doogiekr]

Not sure, from looking at it, it seems mostly cosmetic but i could be wrong...

I am working on a new set of arms for my rep1 using tslot aluminum and some other bracing to reduce vibrations

[Adan Akerman]

That's fun: it's Thingiverser LeftAngle, and in that first pic he's got a platform full of the Cymon's split pyramids I derived from his!

http://www.thingiverse.com/LeftAngle

I really like his glass/aluminum indicator arrow. Check the thingiverse page for details; it automagically changes the Zstop switch trigger location, very smart.

Doogiekr, sounds like a promising effort.

On Tuesday, November 13, 2012, Doogiekr wrote:

Not sure, from looking at it, it seems mostly cosmetic but i could be wrong...

I am working on a new set of arms for my rep1 using tslot aluminum and some other bracing to reduce vibrations

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[Fastrack]

Hey any update on these... I'm getting very frustrated with the plastic arms!   The front right on my platform I've had to add an extra washer as it droops down more than the other corners (so the adjustment screw is loose..).. lol

Ben

[Adan Akerman]

Yes, front right on mine too! So funny. And these are the new arms on mine, the improved grade of ABS. I'm at the stage where I should add the extra washer but instead I've just sort of passively adopted the "missing screw" version of the 3-point-leveling system.

Better arms would be very nice.

--
 
 

[JohnA.]

At least one of the knock-off replicators on Alibaba has wooden arms:

http://www.alibaba.com/product-free/134201424/iPrintTM_Makerbot_Replicator_Dual_extrude_head.html

Put together like Ultimaker arms basically.   I wonder if wood is a viable replacement solution....


JohnA.

[Mark Cohen]

Wow, thats what I want! An Exturder! LOL

dual head 3D printer, similar to makerbot repliator dual exturde head.

> --
>
>

[Adan Akerman]

I'm primarily a woodworker. I always prefer wood options! I think it could work very well. Use plenty of it in the right places and it will be ten times stiffer without being overly heavy.

Reviewing the thermal expansion tables, woods tend to have nice low numbers.... and though there's a cross/long grain distinction, with a high quality plywood it's all averaged out. 

[dual exturde head, funniest thing I've read all day]

On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 12:39 PM, JohnA. <john....@gmail.com> wrote:

--
 
 

[Fastrack]

I tried taking the front right spring out.. When I levelled the platform with my dial indicator that corner was .10"/.254mm (almost an entire layer height) higher so I put it back jamming another aluminium rivet backing washer under the spring. LOL  the Makerbot logo is on a massive angle :)

Ben

On Friday, December 14, 2012 12:34:19 PM UTC-5, AdanA wrote:

[Mark Cohen]

Well the funny thing is mine was always at an angle and then I just
noticed its straight now. So strange.

> --
>
>

[Bottleworks]

The Aluminum arms that I have been making took a little bit longer than I thought.  It all boils down to reasonable cost for production and modifying the design to make it cheap to make.  There have been many revisions...  I'm told I should have the latest revision around the 20th.  I'll do some testing and post some information.  They should be available for order by the first of the year.  It's likely only going to be limited production run, So if you don't buy him in January you probably won't be able to get them.  That is, in less there is an insane demand. 

[RocketSled]

I bolted some Aluminum angle bar to the bottom side edges and outer-facing sides of the arms, extending the length of the arm from the tip to just short of the Z-Axis slide.  It reduced the sag by about 1/2 of what I was getting before, but it didn't eliminate it.  It did dampen the spring-board effect some, though.  On reflection, I did this wrong, but am loath to disassemble it all to fix it.  I don't think the arms actually sag.  I think the HBP heats the top surface of the arm, which expands and the arm bows downward as a result.  I should have put the angle bar across the tops of the arms instead.  

Ultimately, it may be the wrong approach entirely.  The HBP rides on the wooden platform between the arms, not the arms themselves.  It's really this surface that needs to be stiffened. So my next mod "in search of a stiffy", will be to flip the Aluminum over to the arm tops, and also put gussets on the underside of the wooden platform.  

[Bottleworks]

I don't believe the wood is the issue. In fact I can say that with full confidence. I'll be posting data soon. It's all in the arms.

[Doogiekr]

I am almost done with my own version of this, using all aluminum t-slot (and some printed parts) to replace the arms completely. I will let you know if it is still happening (which would confirm your theory on not sagging but actually expanding on top more than on bottom)... of course the t-slot I am using might resist the heat all together and not show the problem at all. Either way I should have answers by the end of next week ( almost done with my 5th and hopefully last revision )... if it does work out like I hope, the whole thing will have cost me less than $5 in non-printable parts (of course I am in South Korea and have no idea what t-slot costs elsewhere)

More to come....

[Mark Cohen]

It definitely does flex. My z rod contacts it occasionally.

On Dec 14, 2012 2:07 PM, "Jetguy" <barry...@hotmail.com> wrote:

You should seriously consider going to larger rods like the 12mm I am
using on my design and the same exact setup on the Ultimaker. Hands
down, you will notice a difference from that alone. Bearings and rods
from VXB is only $30 anyway ($20 for 4 each LM12UU and ~$5 each for
the 2 each  13 inch long rods).

Which brings up the second point of "fixing" the Replicator, design a
pillow block bearing support for the back Y rod for the cross shaft to
motor pulley. One person already bend the rod when the belt jumped, so
we know it's flexing there anyway.

On Oct 21, 12:16 am, Dan Newman <dan.new...@mtbaldy.us> wrote:

> On 20 Oct 2012 , at 9:58 PM, Bottleworks wrote:
>
> > Would anyone be interested in replacement Replicator HBP arms made out of
> > aluminum?  I'm going to make a set for myself.  If there is great interest,
> > many can be made.  If you are interested, what reasonable price range would

> > keep you interested?  Realistically…
>
> Depends upon what all is part of the "package".  But I wouldn't be surprised
> if it was more than $100.  (Just a set of four *good* bearings can easily
> run > $25.)

>
> > For those who are wondering why different arms?:  The arms tend to warp and
> > sag because of the heat of the HBP.  Better arms will keep you from
> > re-leveling the HBP all the time.
>

> I'd be interested.  But this is also a potential opportunity to improve the design.
> Things to at least think about
>
> 1. move to a three point leveling system (or a setup that allows you to setup either
> a 4pt or a 3pt)
>
> 2. A fastening system for the Aluminum build plate that better allows it to expand
> when it heats up.  A rigid fastening system causes the thermal expansion to have
> to "escape" into the third dimension and hence the crowning or sagging in the center.
>
> 3. Maybe the bearings should be spaced out a little farther along each rod?  Or
> different bearings.
>
> 4. Are those slightly larger diameter Z rods we see in the pictures of the Replicator 2?
> Not too sure if that's necessary or not.
>
> 5. Additional mass to help reduce vibration.
>
> 6. Maybe even a vibration dampening system.  (To do that, you need to understand better
> the sources and frequencies of the vibrations.)
>
> 7. Gather the ideas from folks who have already made effective improvements in their
> Replicator build platforms.  (Well, that's in part what you're doing with your post.)

--

[Mark Cohen]

Whats the fix?

On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 10:03 AM, Jetguy <barry...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> So I got my hands on a Replicator Dualhead last night and came up with
> this quick mod to fix the 4 point leveling.
> All I can say is this works about 1000 times better than stock. Super
> fina adjustments and nice stability. Also inlcudes the connector mod.

> --
>
>

[RocketSled]

Without showing us a picture of the rest of the mod, just the HBP doesn't tell you much.  You moved the adjuster screws out to the corners of the plate.  Not sure what this actually does for you, but I've got an open mind.  Show us the rest!

[Doogiekr]

Good idea Jetguy... I think I will try out a version of your mod with my arm mod this week... should be easy enough to add in and test it. I like the idea of having precise control over leveling the platform so it is worth the time to try it out.


On Sunday, December 16, 2012 5:17:59 AM UTC+9, Jetguy wrote:

Also, sorry, I shouldn't let it get to me but the question was almost
offensive. I was up till 3AM rebuilding a Dual Head Replicator from
the local school. I refused to by a new bot from MBI after the T-O-M
and all the pains I went though with it. This Replicator has been used
an abused from day1. My gripe and part of this discussion thread was
the POS arms and Z axis that wouldn't stay level. When I started
examining this thing, the arms warp upwards at the front no less than
4mm. They won't even sit on a flat surface and they have different
warp between them. The other thing I've been watching is discussion on
various fixes inlcuding 3 point leveling etc.. It's all related. And
in this case, the bed issues became extruder issue when it warped up
clogging the nozzle. They had taken apart one head and lost the
plunger, both extruder fans were missing half the blades....... All
this caused by one factor that lead to human interventions that
basically destroyed this machine in short order. It's been printing
better than it ever has since 4AM. Basically, I have a very vested
interest in coming up with a better Z-axis and with a laser cutter,
have the means to do so.

At the same time, I've been working on that Ultimate T-O-M and Cupcake
upgrade. Basically, for the last month I have been knee deep in every
generation of Makerbot products.

The point:
I searched last night for any CAD file that had the hole layout for
the HBP. This is important especially for anyone trying to make up a
mod that bolts in, printed or lasercut, there is no reason to re-
invent the wheel. In this case, the PDF and Eagle CAD really didn't
get me where I wanted. The DXF for the wooden parts does have the 4
center mounting holes. I simply used that, then made a copy of the
hole pattern and moved it to the outer edge making the exact layout of
the hole in the PCB and aluminum plate.
Even if you don't use my simple but effective mod, it gets you closer
with a proper hole layout for any arm mod somebody might be trying to
make.

Futher, let's talk about the best way to CAD this out. The Replicator
DXFs aren't an immediate help because the rod caps that locate the
rods are separate from the main top and bottom sheets. You would have
so select that cap, and move it by hand into the cutout and visually
align it. Once that's done, we select both holes for the rods and
export that as a DXF naming it Z 8mm rod spacing. I then take say the
Type 1 Z axis and import those two holes inline with the current
spacing for the current LM12UUs (probably leading to a 12mm rod mod in
the future). I then start selecting the sides of the wider than
necesary stage out of the Type A and move them around the Z- spacing
we imported. As a final step, I import the mount adapter DXF and bam,
in 20 minutes have the cad files for a Type A Z mod that slaps into a
Replicator.
If there one thing there should be more of on Thingiverse is these
little snippets of hole spacing. You can adapt just about any 2 parts
together using this method. lately, it's all in knowing where to look.
Further, proper CAD let's someone like me who didn't even have a bot
to measure in front of them, build a mod or design that adapts to an
existing design. It doesn't matter if it's printed or lasercut but
that orientation and spacing is the most valued information possible.




On Dec 15, 2:17 pm, Jetguy <barrych...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Um, that's the extent of that mod, thus the title. You use it in
> conjunction with one of these other arm mods. It's related because we
> have more than one problem.
>
> Part 1 is the stock arms suck - ok fine
>
> Part 2 is that the leveling system sucks because it's too
> sensitive(basically a leverage thing) and the limited travel gets in
> the way since the arms suck so badly.
>
> So my fix moves the adjustment point to the corner of the bed. We have
> to make a couple of assumptions here, If the bed hass been milled
> flat, then adjusting from the stock inboard positions means I tiny
> movement or adjustment results in a large movement at the corner. I
> think this is also amplifying the warping factor of the arms in the
> same manner. By moving the spring and the adjustment to the corner,
> you can turn the knob in 1/4 or 1/8 turns and barely see the result
> meaning we have a much finer control. That also mens minor variations
> have less effect.
>
> This conecpt is well proven on the Type A machines designwhich
> actually has the adjustments even further out from the actual print
> area. On that bot, even on an M4 thread, I make a 1/2 and just barely
> see the adjustment in the stripe width of plastic being layed down.
>
> Again, common sense says the 3 point mod makes the adjustment even
> more complex because a single screw affects both axis. With this
> corner 4 point, if the bed is flat, then if you set the corners, then
> the entire bed is perfect. It makes the whole thing more stable and
> faster to tweek.

> > mind.  Show us the rest!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[drando...@gmail.com]

I like where your going with your idea. It's got me thinking about ways to make my HBP support upgrade better as well. If you have ideas or thoughts feel free to hit me up. I have a laser cutter in my house, tons of wood, acrylic, springs, fasteners. I'm happy to help figure these things out.

[Bottleworks]

Here is a preview.  (I've Attached a photo)...

On Saturday, December 15, 2012 9:45:59 PM UTC-5, bill plemmons wrote:

On Saturday, October 20, 2012 11:58:49 PM UTC-5, Bottleworks wrote:

Would anyone be interested in replacement Replicator HBP arms made out of aluminum?  I'm going to make a set for myself.  If there is great interest, many can be made.  If you are interested, what reasonable price range would keep you interested?  Realistically...

For those who are wondering why different arms?:  The arms tend to warp and sag because of the heat of the HBP.  Better arms will keep you from re-leveling the HBP all the time. 

I am interested in your product....  Please tell me more. 

[drando...@gmail.com]

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!!!

Also if you could cut the bottom plate and replace the wood then put it on a break and bend the front to the same angle as the original then that would be pure dope sauce.

[Joseph Chiu]

Gorgeous.

--
 
 

[Fastrack]

WOW... Just WOW.   ...

Did I say WOW ?

Ben

[Andy]

Agreed!  Bottleworks, where do we sign up for a set? :)

 How's the warping/sagging with these arms? Does it still have the diving board effect when printing high speed?

Thanks,
-Andy

--
 
 

[Clinton Hoines]

That looks fantastic, I'm down for a set.  Where do we sign up. :)

 

Clinton

[Cymon]

Would anyone be willing to photograph the process of removing the old arms and putting a new one on. I'd be down with doing this, it would solve so many problems, but it just seems like such a big commitment.

Also, can anyone design one so that space behind doesn't catch everything that flys off the platform?

[Mark Cohen]

I see that my arms shipped, but I see no further information except a
label was made on 1/27. When did it actually ship as USPS priority is
usually 3 days.
Thanks.

> --
>
>

[Bradley Pearce]

Did you get the email I sent to everyone about shipping?

Sent from my iPhone

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>

[Mark Cohen]

I received an email with a tracking number.

[Bottleworks]

I sent this last Saturday. See below... I might be doing another run of them after all the orders are shipped. I don't want to take any additional orders until everyone say their arms.

The email:
Hello everyone.
I wanted to give you all a quick update on the aluminum Replicator
arms. They are currently being made. They are being made in two
groups that each are made in 3 steps. In other words, 25 sets are
made in three phases. Once the first 25 sets are fully complete, then
the next 25 sets start going through the set of three phases. The
first set of 25 should be getting boxed up on Saturday, February 2ed
(Shipping Feb 4th). This is later then first estimated. Those
estimations were based on an assumption of no delays, shipping maybe
16 sets total (not 50), suppliers closed around the new year, etc...
I could go on, but wouldn't want to put you to sleep. A learned
lesson on estimations. I expect the second set of 25 to be shipping
2-3 weeks later. By now, everyone should have gotten a tracking
number for your order via an email from PayPal or USPS. Orders will
be shipping in the order in which they were placed. If you are unsure
where you fall inline, please feel free to email me.

Thanks for your orders and support,
Bradley Pearce

[Bradley Pearce]

Wow. That last sentence did come out right...iPhone. Correct to: "I don't want to take any additional orders until everyone has their arms."

Sent from my iPhone

[Bradley Pearce]

No. That's not an issue. It's paid postage. It can be shipping anytime from the date and later. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 1, 2013, at 8:17 PM, Mark Cohen <markc...@gmail.com> wrote:

I see. I just didnt get how you were able to generate the tracking number because i usually do that online and i need to be precise on the shipping date as usps will not accept a package with the wrong date.

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[Bradley Pearce]

No problem here. I've been selling on eBay for a long time. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 1, 2013, at 8:33 PM, Mark Cohen <markc...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ok.
But if you google
Usps cracks down on online-generated postage dates you will see what i have also experienced.

[Bottleworks]

See: http://bottleworks.homeunix.net/replicatorarms/index.html

On Friday, February 1, 2013 9:44:45 PM UTC-5, veet...@gmail.com wrote:

I see the replacement arms are shipping but I don't see how to order a pair.  Bottleworks, how does it work?

[drando...@gmail.com]

I think I was the 1st guy to order a set of the arms and maybe the last one to install them. Sadly I was sent away on a long business trip so there they sat waiting for my return.I just got installing them and I have to say they are beautiful. Well done! The kit was put together perfectly and great instructions. I can already tell the difference in build quality. So thanks and I recommend this. I would be curious if these would also work on the Rep2 because I think they use the same arms.

[Fastrack]

Well your not the last :)  As I still haven't got a chance to install mine!  But they do look very, very nice!  I can't wait to do the install.  As I know it'll be a HUGE improvement over the plastic arms!

How long did it take ya to install them?

Ben

[Wingcommander whpthomas]

+1 I would be interested in upgrade arms for the Replicator 2

[Dan Newman]

On 27 Feb 2013 , at 10:58 PM, Fastrack wrote:

> Well your not the last :) As I still haven't got a chance to install mine!
> But they do look very, very nice! I can't wait to do the install. As I
> know it'll be a HUGE improvement over the plastic arms!

And I'm midway through my install. Having to wait for new LM8SUU bearings.
When I started to disassemble my bot, the Z rods didn't slide very smoothly.
Then I saw inside of one lower bearing some oddly placed little bearings and
a little tear. Other lower bearing was also damaged. Then I found some tiny
balls which likely fell out when the rods were removed.

And those LM8SUU bearings are non-standard -- only 17 mm long instead of the
typical 24 mm length.

Dan

[Bradley Pearce]

They are so *very close* to going in to production. There are some
design changes made to allow them to fit the rep 2 and 2x. The
problem was I didn't keep some angles and clearance OE, because it
didn't matter for the Rep 1. On the 2/2X, those matter. So, I had to
clean up my "artistic work". I was finalizing the drawing when I got
this post.... Milling begins this week.

On 2/28/13, Wingcommander whpthomas <m...@henri.net> wrote:
> +1 I would be interested in upgrade arms for the Replicator 2
>

[Bradley Pearce]

Yes, be very careful when removing the bearings out of the plastic
arms. You can damage them!

[Dan Newman]

On 27 Feb 2013 , at 11:11 PM, Bradley Pearce wrote:

> Yes, be very careful when removing the bearings out of the plastic
> arms. You can damage them!

Fortunately, I had two damaged ones with which to experiment :) What seems
to have worked for me was to slide an end of the z-rod into and through
a bearing and then pry upwards with a tilting motion. That popped
them out fine. I had thought about using channel locks gripping the bearings
by their ends, but figured that might chew up slightly the plastic/rubber
material which slightly protruded from each end of the bearing.

Dan

[Jason Aspinall]

What's missing on these redesigned arms are positions to move the spring loaded adjusters to the arms, from the central section.  Moving the adjusters further apart would also improve stability of the platform considerably.

Are there any plans to release the CAD data open source at all I wonder?

[Bradley Pearce]

I have some suggestions that I will be posting on thingiverse for leveling modifications. 

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 28, 2013, at 4:39 AM, Jason Aspinall <jasp...@lionlaboratories.com> wrote:

What's missing on these redesigned arms are positions to move the spring loaded adjusters to the arms, from the central section.  Moving the adjusters further apart would also improve stability of the platform considerably.

Are there any plans to release the CAD data open source at all I wonder?

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[Jason Aspinall]

Nice :)

[CKChavez]

I received my Arms yesterday and also installed them in aprox 35-40 minutes! Excellent work Bottleworks!! The added instructions were great as wel. The product is outstanding...Sadly, once installed, I was only able to print a single object (just a quick run for testing after leveling) but had to leave shortly after that print. Came back later and powered on the bot, BAM, POP! Immediately after hitting the power button, the Mightyboard voltage regulator blew. Damn it!!!!!!!

Nothing related to the arms at all, but now I am unable to enjoy them or the bot (note I had estimated close to 300 hours of use since purchased.)

 

Regardless, once I am back up and running/printing, I'm really going to enjoy the added rigidity that these quality arms will provide.

Again, Great work Bottleworks!

[Gary Crowell]

Sorry to go OT, but could you describe the board failure in more detail?  Time between power-on and the pop?  Did you touch anything before or after touching the power switch?  Did you notice any static discharge around the time of the event or while you were installing the arms?

Gary

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[Chris Chavez]

I heard a loud pop/snap sound immediately after turning on the bot. It was truly within 1 second as I still had my finger on the power rocker switch.
No notice of static discharge during or after the arms install. The bot was positioned in its normal location and successfully powered on and printed approx 4 hours prior to failure.
During the last print, it was powered on, ran perfectly and was powered off. SD card remained in.
On my return, I powered on and BAM!
Because my finger was still on the power switch, I turned off immediately. On inspection, the regulator blew. Note that I guess because I turned off immediately, I saw that the regulator blew, and smelled bad, but the regulator plastic body cover (I'm not sure if that is actually plastic, but the square outer body that burns and has blown off from other pictures I have seen) did not burn or shoot off, but opened slightly like a clam shell. It was obviously blown and I was able to lift the piece and see that the actual electrical part underneath blew. No other board damage is obvious, but never the less, it is not working, no LCD screen, nothing at all.
I hope this helps.
I see Jetguys mod on thingiverse which only lists the resettable fuse to the voltage regulator and power diode in case plug is inserted upside down at the power connector. I've read in his many other posts. He recommended diodes as pin replacements on the botsteps 5v pins, possibly removing U5, and of course removing 5v wire from endstops at the motherboard. Maybe I should direct this question to him, but are those items still recommended, or only the resettable fuse and reverse power diode as he only has those posted on his thingiverse mod.
MBI customer support is outstanding and they are sending me a mightyboard and new x endstop cable, so I'd like to be cautious and do what will help me prevent this in the future. Any input would be appreciated.

[Bottleworks]

I highly suggest not disconnecting the white wire on for the end stop cable.  I suggest adding a 1K resistor in series on the MB side of the cable.  Leaving the white wire disconnected could lead to random missteps. Signal return is high when the end stop is not activated.  Pulled low when it gets activated.  Leaving it disconnected allows the signal return voltage to be floating.  So, the resistor solves the cable problem, doesn't introduce any other potential issues, and allows the end stop LED to work. 

[Chris Chavez]

Great recommendation for the 1K resistors on the endstops at the MB side, I appreciate it. Would the other mods still be recommended? I'm hesitant to remove U5, but the others seem logical to me.

[Bottleworks]

The only other mod I'm doing at this time is prodicting a ground path for static discharges.  I'll post some photos of that soon.  It wouldn't have helped with your failure.
These boards seem to fail in 3 main ways:
shorted end stop cable - external
static discharge - external
Digi pot/component failure - internal

You seem to have gotten choice #3!

[Gary Crowell]

I was going to do some grounding too, next time I got into my replicator (to install arms, perhaps).  I was planning to add some ground wires to the new arms & build plate, and some grounded tape around the SD slot.  Problem is finding a good place to run the grounds - best I could think of was to solder wires to the power connector on the bottom of the board.  Shield for the back of the display is a must too.  Hmm, instead of tape I wonder if you could cut a thin aluminum plate, cut to fit around the LCD and buttons, and formed to go 'round the corner and around the SD slot?  Would look nicer than the tape I was planning.

Like your suggestion for the resistor in the cables too.

Gary

[Gary Crowell]

Problem is, we've almost certainly got multiple failure modes.  Jetguy's recommendations are certainly good for the failure modes they protect, and it certainly couldn't hurt to implement them when you install your new board.  But there have been enough failures directly attributable to ESD  (zap then immediate pop)  that it is certainly a concern too.  Problem is that ESD damage is cumulative.  Bot can still be working after the damage is done, and then takes very little to push it over the top.  I'm curious to find out if they are still shipping an identical replacement board (which will ultimately have exactly the same problems).

Gary

[Bottleworks]

You mean like this?  (Insert Evil laugh here)

[Dan Newman]

Gary Crowell wrote:
> Problem is, we've almost certainly got multiple failure modes.
> Jetguy's recommendations are certainly good for the failure modes
> they protect, and it certainly couldn't hurt to implement them when
> you install your new board. But there have been enough failures
> directly attributable to ESD (zap then immediate pop) that it is
> certainly a concern too. Problem is that ESD damage is cumulative.
> Bot can still be working after the damage is done, and then takes
> very little to push it over the top. I'm curious to find out if they
> are still shipping an identical replacement board (which will
> ultimately have exactly the same problems).

Has anyone confirmed whether the GND presented by the PSU's output end
is truly a low resistance
path to the A/C outlet's safety ground?

Dan

[Bottleworks]

Oh, now your trying to ruin my (potentially) false sense of security.  No, I never did.  It should have been step 1.  I'll have to confirm it's adequate.