Repg20, Skeinforge 31 & raftless

[Joheinz]

Hi all,

how does raftless printing work with skeinforge 31? I heard rumours
that the raftless plugin is now integrated into raft? I would like to
explore that a bit, since the default raft settings (do they actually
match this Makerfaire profile for rafts?) sticks like concrete to my
prints and takes ages to print.

I just tried to disable raft but that turns out to be printing without
any kind of raft, which is fine when you have a very simple first
layer and a HBP. My next try will be to "activate raft" but set "Add
Raft, Elevate Nozzle, Orbit and Set Altitude" tp false. I wonder what
this does.

Markus

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[Aaron Double]

It's under Raft, section called Object first layer:

see pic: http://www.flickr.com/photos/48982649@N07/sets/72157625056465163/

There are three ratios: one for infill movement, one for perimeter
movement and one for plastic flow speed.

If you are going to slow down the platform for better adhesion, you
need to slow down the plastic extrusion speed also to avoid blobbing
and too much plastic. I always found that if I set the three ratios to
the same thing it'll work out.

I'm guessing you are using the standard Makerbot (Kysan) gearmotor so
you don't want the motor speed to go lower than around 200 or it'll
stall. If you are running the motor at 255 then you don't want to turn
the flow rate ratio down past .78 (200/255)

I use .85

Operating nozzle lift over layer thickness (ratio) allows you to make
the first layer thinner that the standard layer thickness.
Bitsfrombytes suggested between .4 to .6 I just set mine to .6 and
didn't worry about it.

Here's bitsfrombytes skeinforge wiki which is pretty updated and is a
good reference:

http://www.bitsfrombytes.com/wiki/index.php?title=Skeinforge


If you like, I can post my skeinforge settings for a stock MK5 and
heated build platform. (I'm almost able to print the wobble arrester
with no cleanup or strings)
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2151

Best,

Aaron Double
Twotimes

[Joheinz]

Hi Aaron, yes please send me your profile. I would be very interested
in making comparisons.
Markus (justj...@gmail.com)

2010/10/17 Aaron Double <aad...@gmail.com>:

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[Joheinz]

Ok, so far I found out that the crucial parameters are the ones to be
found in object first layer.
So, you have to activate raft and disable "add raft, elevate
nozzle...". Then you need to slow down the first parameter. This works
fine with the perimeter and infill, however I am stuck since any
internal loops are not slowed down, which causes me some headache. Did
the original raftless plugin slow down any loops? Or would the
behavior change when I change the order of perimeter, infill, loops?
Currently it is set to "loops, perimeter, fill".

Markus

2010/10/17 Joheinz <justj...@googlemail.com>:

[bre pettis]

For experimentation I've cut and pasted the loop and "find and replace" the speed number with a slower one.

[Aaron Double]

Joheinz, your fast loop problem has an easy fix.

Go into Fill and set "Extra shell on Base" to 0

I'll try to post my settings when my 2yo takes his nap.

Best,

Aaron Double
Twotimes

On Oct 17, 10:51 am, bre pettis <brepet...@gmail.com> wrote:
> For experimentation I've cut and pasted the loop and "find and replace" the
> speed number with a slower one.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 8:46 AM, Joheinz <justjohe...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Ok, so far I found out that the crucial parameters are the ones to be
> > found in object first layer.
> > So, you have to activate raft and disable "add raft, elevate
> > nozzle...". Then you need to slow down the first parameter. This works
> > fine with the perimeter and infill, however I am stuck since any
> > internal loops are not slowed down, which causes me some headache. Did
> > the original raftless plugin slow down any loops? Or would the
> > behavior change when I change the order of perimeter, infill, loops?
> > Currently it is set to "loops, perimeter, fill".
>
> > Markus
>

> > 2010/10/17 Joheinz <justjohe...@googlemail.com>:

> > makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com<makerbot%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.c om>
> > .

[Joheinz]

Hmm, do I understand it right, that when you set it to zero you end up
with a "raftless raft" which has just the fill? That seems to be like
a trick worth trying. At the moment I try to do the fill sequence in
"perimeter, loop, infill" instead of the default "loop, perimeter,
infill". That gives better results too.

Markus

2010/10/17 Aaron Double <aad...@gmail.com>:

> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.

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>
>

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[Aaron Double]

The base layer in fill has to do with the first layer of your object,
not the raft. You want to set the raft layers and the interface in
raft to 0 also.

If you set your extra base layers in fill to 0 you will get a
perimeter outline going directly to fill.

I also use perimeter, loop, fill.

Best,

Aaron Double
Twotimes

> >> > makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com<makerbot%2Bunsubscr...@googlegroups.c om>

[Joheinz]

Sorry, misunderstanding. I said "raftless raft", because I treat the
first object layer now as my "raft" which sticks to the HBP. Of course
I had the raft layers set to zero before. Markus

[Aaron Double]

ah-ha! I get it.

Aaron

> >> --http://justjoheinz.posterous.com/http://softwarepoets.orghttp://twitt...

[Aaron Double]

Hey Markus,

Here is a link to my .csv files

http://web.mac.com/aa2x/Site/makerbot/Twotimes's_RepG31_config_files.zip

I was able to print out a z-float that was springy with out cleanup
and had layer adhesion with the careful slow version.

Give a shout if you have any questions.

Aaron

> > --http://justjoheinz.posterous.com/http://softwarepoets.orghttp://twitt...

[Boris Camelo]

Hello, with the great skeinforge 31, anyone can place a stl model of hulk, shrek or other character? please put your best prints to share with us?

Thank you 

Boris Camelo

2010/10/17 Aaron Double <aad...@gmail.com>

[Joel Chia]

Speaking of raftless, there's something I miss about it which was the early extrusion.

It'd move the printhead to a corner and start extruding while moving to the first point of the model.

Currently, without raftless, I'd either have my first perimeter or loop (depending on what gets laid down first) partially missing as the filament takes about a second for the extrusion to start coming out of the nozzle. It also gives me a chance to tweak the first layer height by hand if needed.

Not sure how to get that working with SF31. Does anyone have any pointers

Cheers,
-Joel

[Koen Kooi]

Op 19 okt 2010, om 07:42 heeft Joel Chia het volgende geschreven:

> Speaking of raftless, there's something I miss about it which was the early extrusion.
> It'd move the printhead to a corner and start extruding while moving to the first point of the model.
>
> Currently, without raftless, I'd either have my first perimeter or loop (depending on what gets laid down first) partially missing as the filament takes about a second for the extrusion to start coming out of the nozzle. It also gives me a chance to tweak the first layer height by hand if needed.
>
> Not sure how to get that working with SF31. Does anyone have any pointers

I have a start.{gcode,txt} to draw a 90x90mm outline first, works great with countersunk bolts:

(Cupcake ABS with heated build platform skeinforge profile)
(beginning of start.txt)
M104 S222 T0 (Extruder Temperature to 222 Celsius)
M109 S110 T0 (Heated Platform Temperature to 110 Celsius)
G21 (Metric FTW)
G90 (Absolute Positioning)
(You have failed me for the last time, MakerBot)
M108 S210 (Extruder speed = max)
M6 T0 (Wait for tool to heat up)
(Spacexula raftless tail)
G1 X-45.0 Y45.0 Z0.40 F3000
M101
G1 X-45.0 Y-45.0 Z0.40 F945
G1 X45.0 Y-45.0 Z0.40 F945
G1 X45.0 Y45.0 Z0.40 F945
G1 X-45.0 Y45.0 Z0.40 F945
M103
M104 S202 T0 (Extruder Temperature to 202 Celsius)
(end of start.txt)

If you keep having problems remove the M103 to keep the extruder on while it moves from the corner to the first point.

regards,

Koen

[Joel Chia]

Thanks for that Koen, I'll add it to my start.gcode

Oh why didn't I think of modifying my startup script before :P 

Cheers,
-Joel

[Koen Kooi]

Op 20 okt 2010, om 04:53 heeft coasterman het volgende geschreven:

> Never uncheck the "Use Raft" button when you slice from RepG. It
> disables the entire plugin.

And I like it that way :) repG 19 and up will activate the raftless plugin if you do that.

regards,

Koen

[Bill Culverhouse]

Anyone having trouble using Skeinforge 31 with RepG under Windows? I go to edit a profile and I select save and close

from the menu. (There is no button to close as in SF 7) Then RepG doesn't take control back (SF is

a modal window) Can't close repG except to kill the process.

 

Anyone else with this issue or is it just me?

 

-b 

[Ross Mosshart]

I have the same problem, though I just chalked it up to running JohnnyXP instead of a stock windows install.

On Oct 22, 2010 3:34 PM, "Bill Culverhouse" <bill.cul...@gmail.com> wrote:

Anyone having trouble using Skeinforge 31 with RepG under Windows? I go to edit a profile and I select save and close

from the menu. (There is no button to close as in SF 7) Then RepG doesn't take control back (SF is

a modal window) Can't close repG except to kill the process.

 

Anyone else with this issue or is it just me?

 

-b 

On Wed, Oct 20, 2010 at 3:05 AM, Koen Kooi <ko...@beagleboard.org> wrote: > > > Op 20 okt 2010, om 04...

[Joheinz]

I can confirm that this is a problem. It happens abitrarily to me. I
found that "Save and close" is still the best bet. At least when you
kill ReplicatorG and restart the changes are all saved. It is a bit of
a nuisance, but should be fixable by looking into the RepG source
code. It is probably a bit difficult to debug, since (at least for me)
it is not reproducible reliably.

Markus

2010/10/22 Ross Mosshart <ross.m...@gmail.com>:

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