Printing on cold glass with PLA

[Infinityplusplus]

This might already be out there, but if not i thought I would share this, since whenever I have seen anyone really talk about printing on glass it has been with a heated build plate. I have been using blue tape since I got my Rep2, but sometimes I find myself with tape stuck to the bottom of the model, and having to scrape it off. Long story short the purple can of Aquanet hair spray makes PLA stick to cold glass also. I had not tried it since everything I had seen involved heat. You can spray this stuff on in an even coat right on a glass plate and prints stick great! It also gives the print base a glossy and flat finish. I did 4 prints in the same area before I reapplied. Just be careful not to drag the nozzle across the plate. Big thanks to the community, I love the way the bases of my prints are looking now, no more scraping off tape when I clean it too good.

[Enginwiz]

Sounds great. I have been looking for Aquanet hairspray in Europe without success.
Does anybody know where to buy it on the old continent?

However - last week I saw a bottle of Garnier Fructis Extra (Nuclear?) Hold hairspray and
put it in my shopping cart. Is anybody using it successfully to print PLA on a cold glass plate?

[lassikin]

garnier fructis bamboo flexihold is my choice up in the north of the old continent. some other have recommended it as well. I had something else as well but that didn't work well. I'm using it on alu hbp + kapton.

just try it :)

-lassi

[AKron]

My plate is only at 60C, which is barely warm to the touch. What's
cool is when it cools down you can hear the part cracking off the
glass, and when it's cooled the piece lifts off as if it was just set
on there with no adhesion. The more I use PLA the more I like it,
although being able to use other materials is pretty cool, too. I've
been printing in ABS this weekend, and now that the Kapton tape is all
messed up I think I'll flip the plate, and go back to PLA for awhile.
-Andy

[Infinityplusplus]

If you print on glass totally cold, you don't get that nice, easy self-removal. I had to tap the side of my last print and it popped off nicely though. I think I am gonna try putting the glass in the fridge next time and see if the contraction will make it pop off. 

[abellasr]

We have only been printing for one week with our dedicated, PLA only printer. Printing onto an acrylic build plate with a blue painter's tape only.  No hair spray, no glass, no heat, no voo-doo or magic wand!  So far, zero issues and each part sticks like crazy.  The most impressive thing I have found is that it prints just as well on a single layer part with no fill (i.e. a cup or vase) as it does parts with fill.

Yesterday my son said he wanted to print in clear PLA but forgot it at his house.  I remembered I had a sample roll we picked up at Maker Fair 2011 in the garage.  When I retrieved it, I discovered the bag had a big rip in it.  We figured we would try it anyway (let's see, that's 1.5 years in unheated garage air) and it printed three different objects just fine.  Go figure?

Here are some pics of a couple (of the ten or so) things we printed yesterday.

[Eighty]

Abellasr,
I'm stunned by the clarity of the clear prints you posted. May I ask what settings you used? Mine usually turn out with lots of air pockets, and therefore not nearly as glassy.

[Enginwiz]

Infintyplusplus,

Is the surface of your glass plate just shiny flat glass or is it etched or sandblasted?

Thank you for opening up this thread. Printing PLA directly on a cold glass plate
coated with inexpensive hair spray sounds very promising.

I have to solve a levelling issue with my glass plate first. Then I will try
out the Garnier fructis spray directly on the glass plate.

[Infinityplusplus]

I am just using plain shiny flat glass. I did try a type of garnier, I think it was dry humidity level 4 or something, and the PLA only stuck for a few layers. There is another hairspray around when aquanet was called Rave, I have not looked into it yet but it my be worth checking out.

[abellasr]

On Sunday, March 31, 2013 3:28:38 PM UTC-4, Eighty wrote:

Abellasr,
I'm stunned by the clarity of the clear prints you posted.  May I ask what settings you used?  Mine usually turn out with lots of air pockets, and therefore not nearly as glassy.

Printing at 220 degrees. .4mm nozzle. Zero infill. no shells, .22 layer height

[Enginwiz]

Infinityplusplus,

Thank you for your detailed description. I tried it out today. Immediate sucess. 

I used this hairspray. Coated the back of my glass plate with three layers crosswise wet in wet like when spraying paint.

After five minutes of drying at room temperature (around 20°C) I printed Henrys interactive leveling aid

with PLA at 230°C onto the cold glass plate with the dried hair spray on it.

The print ran without problems. The Replicator 2 printed on the hairspray just like on a tape.

Removing the 2 layer high print with the cricut spatula was much easier than from a tape.

After lifting one edge the whole print came right off. This could maybe also turn out to be a weakness.

The layer of haírspray sticks to the PLA and comes right off with it. 

One big surprise: The bottom of the part is shiny like a mirror. Looks great.

I will do some more test prints and post the results.

Robert

[Infinityplusplus]

I have now done several prints straight to the cold glass with the Aquanet and I am very happy with the results. I have done a few bigger prints and they did not get knocked off the platform, and it held well enough for me to print the fragile http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:64941, and still just popped off the plate without breaking. One on the owls I actually had to tap on the base a bit to get it free, it was stuck pretty good and so flat I could not get anything under it.

[Enginwiz]

I finally found "Aqua Net Professional Hair Spray Extra Super Hold 3 Unscented" on www.amazon.de and ordered a bottle.

Lead time is three weeks and the shipping costs exceeds the price of the product. All in all one bottle costs 11 Euros.

Maybe they ship it from the US.

In the mean time I did some PLA test prints with the Garnier Fructis on the cold glass plate.

The Makerware Slicer Test lifted a bit at the outer edges, but three quarters of the bottom stuck firmly to the plate.

Maybe some ear rafts would have held the edges down. Removing the part was easy. 

I used the cricut spatula to lift the print a bit and it popped right off.

Calibration cubes with 100% infill keep sticking to the glass plate with the whole bottom surface.

 

With blue tape the bottom of the cube often lifted the tape from the build plate on the edges. No lifting edges with hair spray.

I could just pop off the cube with my fingers. The skirt comes off easily with the cricut spatula.

The bottom of the cube is perfectly flat and looks shiny. 

Some of the hairspray comes off the plate together with the printed part.

It seems to be sufficient to recoat the small spot where the last print took some of the adhesive hair spray layer off.

So far printing PLA with hairspray on a cold glass plate worked quite well. I will continue testing with some really big prints. 

[xenogea...@gmail.com]

Thanks for posting your well-documented results!

[Enginwiz]

I'm happy to report success. The garnier fructis holds down big prints much better than any tape i've ever used. No warping.

This is a block 240 x 40 x 40 mm sliced with Makerware slicer for 0,2 mm layer height, 2 shells and 10% infill.

Printed in black PLA at 230°C and 80 mm/s accelerated by sailfish firmware to 150% on a cold glass build plate

coated with a thick layer of Garnier Fructis Bamboo maximum hold 5 hair spray.

I removed the printed part easily without tools. One firm grip and the print snapped off the build plate. 

Printing PLA on a cold glass plate coated with hair spray works like a charm. 

Thank you very much Infinityplusplus. Your post in this forum changed my printing experience.

[Infinityplusplus]

I'm glad it is working for you. I have not used any tape since I started using the hairspray and I it rocks. I know I would have never gotten that print that flat on tape. Makes a big difference when you make something for someone that requires the bottom be flat.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Is this the stuff you're using?

http://www.amazon.com/Garnier-Fructis-Bamboo-Flexihold-Extreme/dp/B0045ZSLVQ/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365220366&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=Garnier+Fructis+Bamboo+flex

[Enginwiz]

Hello Steven,

yes, this hairspray on Amazon seems to be the same hairspray my Replicator 2 is currently printing on.

My bottle has some german text on the outside for selling it in Austria and Germany.

I bought it in the supermarket around the corner after reading the posting of Infinityplusplus.

It is called "HAIR LACQUER" ("HAARLACK" in German), not hair spray and is rated 5 on a scale

of 1 to 5 for maximum hold.

 

Today I tried two (cheaper) german brands of hair spray without success.

The PLA would not stick to them. So not every hairspray works for PLA.

Cleaning the glass plate is simple. Every hairspray I tried came off easily with

warm water in the kitchen sink.

I also bought a bottle of Aquanet. It is still on its way from the US to Europe.

Will compare its adhesion force to the Garnier with a special test print and a force sensor

and post the results.

[Infinityplusplus]

There are probably more brands that work than just these 2. I am not a chemical engineer but I believe the consensus was that it had to do with the types of acrylic co polymers in the hairspray. Some hairsprays have other things like fragrances and such that could be interfering as well. It goes without saying that these companies are not marketing to us, yet. 

On Saturday, April 6, 2013 12:34:17 PM UTC-7, Arik Czerniak wrote:

guys, noob question

what is it about the hairspray that makes this happen? which component/chemical? why is it only these 2 specific brands?

[Steven Vaccaro]

thanks!!

[PhGeis]

Hi Enginewiz,

Could you pls post the full German selling name of the Garnier stuff.
Live close to Frankfurt so that would be easiest for me. Gone try even on heated BP and with ABS as soon as my 2x arrives!

[Enginwiz]

The german product name is: GARNIER FRUCTIS STYLE - HAARLACK FIXIER POWER MIT BAMBUS-EXTRAKT - MAXIMALER HALT - 5

This picture shows the design of the spray bottle Garnier sells in german speaking countries.

I found this data sheet on the web.

 

[John Armbruster]

this...this can't be MBI clear, what brand is it? These samples are stunning, even with 0 infill.

On Sunday, March 31, 2013 3:28:38 PM UTC-4, Eighty wrote:

[Pascal POECK]

I found the same but marked as 4 strong. Work very well ;)