use makerbot electronics for CNC mill

[Marcus Wolschon]

Hello,

would it be sensible to try to use the Makerbot electronics
for a CNC mill?
Are the StepperDrivers up for this task?
Is it possible to create compatible stepper drivers with
more power?
Anything that would be better suited, where I still
need not worry about implementing the part between
G-code -file and stepper-motor?


Marcus

[Whosawhatsis]

Depends on the size of the mill and the current requirements of its
motors. Gen4 or pololu stepper drivers should be able to handle any
NEMA17 you can find, but check the specs. Some NEMA23s need more
current than these can source, and some don't. It is certainly
possible to wire the makerbot/reprap boards to more powerful drivers,
though the wiring probably won't be pretty.

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[Joe Kerman]

no. The makerbot electronics do not support acceleration profiles. Unless your mill can reverse direction, instantly, in a single motor step, every single time, it will never work.

My estimations for a "mini mill" sized mill showed a maximum reversal speed for the mass of around 5mm/sec

[Marcus Wolschon]

Thanks.
I guess that could be easily solved in vIsolage/Skeinforge but it
should
be better handled in the g-code interpreter.
(Wouldn't that actually be Replicator-G instead if the makerbot
hardware? Sounds like a software-issue.)

Does anyone know easy to use and operate alternatives
that could do the job?

Marcus

[Brian Stott]

I think if you needed more power you can stillnuse the controllers as control with supplimental external circuit to boost power/signal to motors.

Or am I way off?

[Brian Stott]

Why would a slow operating device like a cutting mill demand more and faster responce than a 3D printer. The cutting head on a small mill generally is not at a large speed, feed and depth cutting.

As for quick response/Reversal. Has a review of the very details of the bots been concidered? And the accelerated speeds some hot rodders (bot hackers) are claiming?

I'm confused with - "no."

---

From: Joe Kerman <jke...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 7:52 AM
To: make...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MakerBot] use makerbot electronics for CNC mill

no. The makerbot electronics do not support acceleration profiles. Unless your mill can reverse direction, instantly, in a single motor step, every single time, it will never work.

My estimations for a "mini mill" sized mill showed a maximum reversal speed for the mass of around 5mm/sec

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Whosawhatsis <whosaw...@gmail.com> wrote:

Depends on the size of the mill and the current requirements of its
motors. Gen4 or pololu stepper drivers should be able to handle any
NEMA17 you can find, but check the specs. Some NEMA23s need more
current than these can source, and some don't. It is certainly
possible to wire the makerbot/reprap boards to more powerful drivers,
though the wiring probably won't be pretty.

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 3:00 AM, Marcus Wolschon

<marcus....@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> would it be sensible to try to use the Makerbot electronics
> for a CNC mill?
> Are the StepperDrivers up for this task?
> Is it possible to create compatible stepper drivers with
> more power?
> Anything that would be better suited, where I still
> need not worry about implementing the part between
> G-code -file and stepper-motor?
>
>
> Marcus
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MakerBot Operators" group.
> To post to this group, send email to make...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to

[The entire original message is not included]

[Andrew Plumb]

It's not faster response that's needed, it's controlled acceleration/deceleration curves.  Abrupt changes in direction are significantly more damaging when a milling bit is below the surface than when an extrusion head is depositing material from above.

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to makerbot+u...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/makerbot?hl=en.

--

Makerbot Number Nine... #9... 0x09... 0o11... 0b1001... 
http://clothbot.com/wiki/MakerBotNumberNine

[Ethan Dicks]

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 8:04 AM, Marcus Wolschon
<marcus....@googlemail.com> wrote:
> (Wouldn't that actually be Replicator-G instead if the makerbot
> hardware? Sounds like a software-issue.)

That was my take on it.

> Does anyone know easy to use and operate alternatives
> that could do the job?

I've been thinking about adopting Dank's Grbl for re-doing the guts of
my cheap Chinese laser cutter...

http://dank.bengler.no/

http://dank.bengler.no/-/page/show/5470_grbl

-ethan

[Marcus Wolschon]

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 15:06, Ethan Dicks <ethan...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 8:04 AM, Marcus Wolschon

<marcus....@googlemail.com> wrote:

> (Wouldn't that actually be Replicator-G instead if the makerbot
> hardware? Sounds like a software-issue.)

That was my take on it.

> Does anyone know easy to use and operate alternatives
> that could do the job?

I've been thinking about adopting Dank's Grbl for re-doing the guts of
my cheap Chinese laser cutter...

Sounds interesting.
Modding one of these 800eur "40W" laser-cutters sounds interesting too.
But not at this time.

 

http://dank.bengler.no/

http://dank.bengler.no/-/page/show/5470_grbl

[Richard Rouse]

Phidgets sells stepper drivers. They can control position, acceleration and velocity. You can download example python scripts and it should be straightforward to modify Gcode

Richard

[Whosawhatsis]

A little correction, the Makerbot firmware cannot do acceleration, but
5D does acceleration and was designed to run on Gen3 electronics. I
don't know of anyone who has tried it on Gen4, but if you're not
running an extruder, Gen4 and RAMPS can probably be used pretty
interchangeably (with the pin assignments changed). There are also
alternative reprap firmwares like Teacup and Klimentkip/Sprinter
designed specifically for single-board reprap electronics like RAMPS,
Gen6 and Sanguinololu, and I believe all of these can do acceleration.

[Brian Stott]

Same chip, same controller circuitry, same motors - run by software. Use for both.

---

From: Andrew Plumb <and...@plumb.org>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 9:04 AM

To: make...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MakerBot] use makerbot electronics for CNC mill

It's not faster response that's needed, it's controlled acceleration/deceleration curves.  Abrupt changes in direction are significantly more damaging when a milling bit is below the surface than when an extrusion head is depositing material from above.

On 2011-06-08, at 8:47 AM, Brian Stott wrote:

Why would a slow operating device like a cutting mill demand more and faster responce than a 3D printer. The cutting head on a small mill generally is not at a large speed, feed and depth cutting.

As for quick response/Reversal. Has a review of the very details of the bots been concidered? And the accelerated speeds some hot rodders (bot hackers) are claiming?

I'm confused with - "no."

---

From: Joe Kerman <jke...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 7:52 AM
To: make...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MakerBot] use makerbot electronics for CNC mill

no. The makerbot electronics do not support acceleration

[Marcus Wolschon]

Does anyone even remotely have an overview of the Reprap firmwares?
What hardware they need, what they are based on, if they are still developed,
... ?
I have long given up on understanding their hardware generations with
no 2 people having the same hardware.
With software it looks not a bit better.
(They should have thrown out their project maintainer long ago
 and gotten someone who actually DOES that job.)

Marcus

[Whosawhatsis]

Even remotely... http://reprap.org/wiki/CAM_Toolchains

[Marcus Wolschon]

Well...
Replicator-G-..."Compatible firmware(s)"=Makerbot+5G
5G is not listed in firmwares ;)
The only link to 5G gives a 404 on Github.

[Whosawhatsis]

I don't see 5G listed anywhere on that page, just 5D, which is the
"official" (in quotes, because the reprap project doesn't do official)
reprap firmware. Also, the list has not been updated, but the driver
list in RepG 25 also includes entries for Klimentkip (aka Sprinter)
and Teacup.

[Aaron Double]

Rob's stepper driver can go up to 36V if any of you CNC mill folks are interested:)

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4526

Aaron Double

[Lieven Standaert]

Actually, me and Kurt Van Houtte are using the Makerbot drivers for a
CNC mill. We've recently published the design as an open-source kit:

see www.repairablemachines.com

-the 3D-printer has accelleration/decelleration as well, it is handled
in the generation of the G-code by skeinforge. There's no reason this
couldn't be done in software for milling as well
-you're limited to 2A for these drivers, and they get quite hot. Add
decent heatsinks
-yes, you need a bit more power, but power is (force x speed) , we're
happy with a sturdy, slow mill that gets the job done. If you are as
well, they'll do fine.
We push a Dremel with a 3mm milling bit through a layer of 6mm of
plywood without a hitch.

If you have a screw-driven axis, then the 5mm/sec mentioned by Joe
Kerman is actually quite fast.



best,
Lieven Standaert




On 8 jun, 12:00, Marcus Wolschon <marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

[Bottleworks]

Is this project still active?  The web site appears to be down right now. 

[RocketSled]

On Friday, June 10, 2011 5:13:29 AM UTC-4, Lieven Standaert wrote:

Actually, me and Kurt Van Houtte are using the Makerbot drivers for a
CNC mill. We've recently published the design as an open-source kit:

see www.repairablemachines.com

Yeah.  I was gonna say... Toolpath generation is totally different for subtractive than for constructive, but G code is G code (for the most part).  We're not talking high speed machining, presumably.  Moving a small cutter through light materials like wood or wax or foam doesn't require very advanced acceleration control.  

While I don't think it'd be a very good machine, you could probably print a fixture that would let you replace the Bot's printhead with a Dremel and do 3-axis machining right on the Bot itself... good enough for small parts or wax plugs for molds.  But it'd be a compromise. You need the right tool for the right job.  I have a Taig 4-axis CNC Micromill for precision machining.  And a Cupcake CNC for larger less precise work like foam model airplane fuselages and wings.  I bought my Rep1 so I could use ReconstructMe to make 3D scale pilot busts of me (see my profile picture).  So my fabrication lab is almost complete.  I just need a laser cutter and I'll be able to make anything!