5th Gen Owners: Tips and Tricks Thread

[Josh Ajima]

Howdy,

This thread is for Makerbot Replicator 5th gen owners to report actual strategies they are using to try and get the best prints possible. Focus should be on tips and tricks that other owners can attempt. 

Here are some of my current tips

-Run a Filament Load before every print. Use medium pressure until extruded filament comes out in a thick thread.

-If filament cannot be removed after an Unload Filament then try one Load Filament and one more Unload Filament. If these don't work then turn heat off and wait for printer to cool down. (Multiple Load/Unload Filament processes seem to make the jam worse.)

-Slice parts at higher infill than normal to compensate for underextrusion. I've used 100% infill for parts with walls that are 4-5 threadwidths thick.

5th gen owners please let me know what strategies is working for you.

-Josh

[Harrison]

Hey Josh,

I don't have a 5th gen, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of the issues are the same as the 4th gen. Here's a list of improvements for that:

http://makerbot.wikia.com/wiki/Replicator_2

(obviously you can ignore the extruder replacement). In the end most FFM printers are the same and they are certainly governed by the same physics, so you will find a lot of carry over. One thing I did when starting with Makerbot is try to apply reprap knowledge/troubleshooting to the bot. That way you have a much more diverse information set to draw from. Happy printing!

[Kelly Crittenden]

For z-homing errors, you can lift the front edge of the build plate slightly to trick the sensor. I have also tried adding a piece of cardstock under the extruder during the homing process, but I am not sure that fixes anything. The error I get during the z-homing routine is an "HES" error, which I ASSUME is related to a Hall Effect Sensor. If that assumption is true, then the cardstock doesn't actually do anything, but lifting the front edge of the build plate a little would have an effect. 

Thanks,

Kelly

[Ryan Carlyle]

The hall effect sensor is inside the nozzle, not detecting the build plate. All that matters is the nozzle be fully extended against the mechanical stop, or retracted by some amount.

[Josh Ajima]

The following tips are from Thingiverse super star PrettySmallThings based on her personal one-on-one with Makerbot Techs.

-Always push down the lever when you're removing filament.  Be gentle.  Pull slowly, try to get all the bits out.

-Always let the fans run down before you power off.

-New firmware mostly taking care of nozzle movement jams - there's a little wiggle

When I saw the note about pushing down the lever, I was embarrassed because I thought I missed something in the manual. I reread the manual and there is nothing about pushing down the lever on the side of the Smart Extruder. It's a rectangular tab half way down the side. I have been pulling and cursing trying to get the jams out. Push down the lever and the filament slides right out. 

[Steve_Criz]

Not that I'm an expert... but, it does surprise me that nobody is recommending a way/means of "lubricating" the filament on 5th gen machines as a means of at least reducing if not totally eliminating "air prints", as it does for Rep2 users suffering from the same issue.

Since employing the " lubricate the filament with oil" (I tried canola oil yesterday) technique, I've not experienced any where near the same degree of 'threading', let alone "air prints" or any build issues that could be ascribed to "dodgy filament" or some other extruder type problem.

Given how well it works on fixing such issues on 4th Gen Replicator 2's - something I can more than vouch for; I'm left wondering why nobody seems to have attempted the "lubricate the filament" technique on a 5th Gen printer as yet.

Maybe they have; and they're just too busy printing awesome stuff out to be bothered telling anyone about it or how they achieved the feat...

[Ryan Carlyle]

I've been suggesting it for a while. Nobody has said whether it works or not.

[Ryan Brodowicz]

I'm a very new 5th Gen (and 3D printer overall) owner. Here are a few things I have found out so far that are not really common knowledge: 

• Do not email Makerbot support. They take forever to reply and then only answer one or two of your questions you sent in. Call support instead, you get MUCH better customer service and your answers will come instantly instead of 24-48 hours in the future. I also tried the #makerbot IRC channel on freenode for some help, not many active people there and 90% of the time nobody will respond to questions. 
  
• As to the oiling the filement, I am definitely going to try then when my replacement smart extruder arrives on Monday. I will report back on if I noticed a change here.
  
• If you can avoid using the True-Black filament! I got my extra colors in the mail 2 days after my Replicator, threw some True Black in and immediately started having major jamming issues. Reading online has revealed that others are having the same issues. So if you can, avoid printing in True Black PLA filament from Makerbot. Nothing but extrusion issues such as curling and jams. 

On Friday, April 11, 2014 11:58:54 AM UTC-5, Josh Ajima wrote:

[Nate Rush]

Probably common sense, but monitor the print until it starts printing the raft.  The first time it centered on the left corner, the LED clip caught on it and popped the entire smart extruder and the LED clip, went back on easy and no problems since then, but you should be aware that it can happen.

[Ryan Carlyle]

Be careful to not put too much oil on there. It's possible that lubricating the filament may interfere with the out-of-filament detection wheel gizmo. A thin film is plenty.

[Steve_Criz]

Yes... I realised that some people might think "oiling" the filament meant soaking it, after I wrote the suggestion!!

I've attached the PDF made by the folks I bought my Rep2 from that might explain/illustrate the technique better than any words alone can do...

And how easy it would be to use the "chux/absorbant type cloth with a few drops of oil lightly touching the filament as it comes off the spool" technique that's quite easy to achieve with the Rep2 is also something only a 5th Gen owner could solve...

[MikerBot]

Wow.. I just went to check my very clogged smart extruder and sure enough there is a lever no one told me about.  I wonder if that would have prevented my clog?    The end left in the extruder broke off rather than coming out.

[jtuei]

I'm not sure where the lever is. Would someone please post a photo? Also, when do you push the lever? At what point in the process for removing filament?

Thanks.

[jtuei]

I just tried this one trick and it seemed to be working.


The initial problem: When I was doing my first test print...the first layer that the extruder tried to deposit, did not take. I felt like the nozzle was really rubbing against the blue tape.

The correction:
(1) Plate Level
(2) During the knob turning step. Turn the knob until the LED goes on. Wait for the menu to display "Continue". Turn the knob in the reverse direction 45 degrees (1/8 of a turn).
(3) Press 'Continue'
repeat with the second knob adjustment.

This basically moved the build plate a tad lower to compensate for the thickness of the blue tape. So far my two prints after I did this worked great. :)

[PrettySmallThings]

The lever is on the side of the smart extruder - between the two "bumps" where the magnets are.  There is a lever, that is very much like the Replicator 2 design - it's a connected to a spring and bearing that keep tension between the drive gear and filament.  There's a static "lever" below it, makes it really easy to grab and hold the "lever" down.

Pull the guide tube away while you let the extruder heat up. When the filament starts to reverse, grab it.  When the motion stops, instead of yanking the filament out, push down the lever on the side.  Pull out the filament slowly - you'll pull out small beads and thready bits of plastic - removing this excess helps prevent clogs, at least in my experience.  

If you're brand new to makerbots - check out pics of the updated replicator 2 extruder.  The exact "insides" are a little different on the smart extruder, but the drive gear/bearing/spring is essentially the same and it may help you visualize what's going on inside the extruder.  

[jtuei]

I've attached a photo of the right side of the extruder (If I'm facing the MakerBot, this is on the right side of the extruder).

Is this the lever that everyone is referring to?

[Ryan Carlyle]

Push UP on the thing below that, I think. 

[PrettySmallThings]

Yes. The bottom one is stationary. Put your finger underneath the stationary one, and press your thumb down on the top.

[Rebecca Kraemer]

I wanted to add one tip that I recently encountered. We received our third Smart Extruder (*sigh*) and out of the box it would not level the build plate citing the filament needed to be removed...but it didn't have any filament in it. We tried the basics (loading/unloading filament, rebooting) and then Makerbot Support suggested we downgrade from firmware 1.0.3 to firmware 1.0.1.18. We did that and sure enough we were able to level the build plate. We then upgraded the firmware back to 1.0.3, since it includes fixes we want to take advantage of, and it continues to level the build plate just fine. So if you encounter the same error try downgrading the firmware, leveling and then upgrading the firmware again.

On Friday, April 11, 2014 12:58:54 PM UTC-4, Josh Ajima wrote:

[Jetguy]

Bigger tip. STOP leveling every time! you should Only have to level once, the day you get the machine. Since homing is done at Every print, the bed should never need leveled.

All leveling is doing is setting the bed surface parallel to nozzle travel in X-Y. Even changing the extruder 200 times doesn't change the relationship requiring re-leveling.

[Rebecca Kraemer]

Ouch. FTR, I was not leveling after every print. We sometimes level after replacing the build plate tape since the plate seems to move quite a bit. In this instance we were leveling because we were getting air prints. The leveling worked.

[hjorthmobile]

I actually swapped smart extruder in the middle of a long print when it started clicking and i feared a clog was building.
It is completely impossible to see the swap point except for the fresh one extruding a bit thicker...
So now i make sure to have the second one unclogged and near at hand.

P

[Nik]

Tip for reducing clogs due to extruder cooling issues:

• Before print (but after 'load filament' run to ensure smooth travels), place a binder clip on the extruder tension lever as shown
  
• let the printer run through it's homing routine (the clip will prevent the firmware from 'extracting' the filament at the end of the homing, thus preventing the clog)
  
• once it starts final heating (from 70% to full heat) remove the binder clip

[Lovelyday]

Great tip. I'm going to buy such a clip an try it! I guess this resolves the issue of this thread: 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/makerbot/z04yhKWmPT0

[Lovelyday]

They only had these :P 

Sheer masculinity!

[Lovelyday]

Tested! Works like a charm. I did put some blue tape on the clip to prevent damaging the extruder's plastic and increase the grip.

Thanks for the tip! Now hope that this really prevents the jam and keeps my 3rd extruder printing untill MBI recalls all extruders to replace them with the new design :-)

[Clinton Hoines]

The retract before a print has nothing to do with the extruder at all. Has to do with the start code the 5th gen uses. If it was possible (like the rep1-4 is) to edit the start code you could easily fix this issue for real rather than a hack fix that grinds filament at he beginning of every print.

 

Clinton

On Saturday, 17 May 2014 13:07:28 UTC-6, Lovelyday wrote:

Tested! Works like a charm. I did put some blue tape on the clip to prevent damaging the extruder's plastic and increase the grip.

Thanks for the tip! Now hope that this really prevents the jam and keeps my 3rd extruder printing untill MBI recalls all extruders to replace them with the new design :-)

On Saturday, 17 May 2014 19:50:03 UTC+2, Lovelyday wrote:

They only had these :P 

Sheer he masculinity!

[Kelly Crittenden]

I am not sure if this particular bit can be edited, but you can edit the slicer profile on the 5th gens. You just need to create a custom profile, and then you can edit it. I am not certain what would govern the initial retract though, unless maybe the "toolchangeretractdistance." It sounds like that setting would only affect a tool change, but possibly it would also affect the initial retract too. I don't know though, as I haven't messed with it.

[Clinton Hoines]

No it sounds like it is part of the start code which is not in the directory for the 5th gen, moding the profile wont effect this at all. On any other bot you can mod your start and end code as you like this one not that I can see.

[Ryan Carlyle]

It's possible to open up the 5g files and manually edit them. Change the .makerbot file extension to be a .zip file, then unzip it, and the print instruction list is in the print.jsontoolpath file. Open that in a text editor like Notepad and you will see all the tool commands. They can be hand-edited, but I make no promises.

I'm looking at the stretchy bracelet example right now. The third command is a 2mm retraction (on the "a" axis). The fourth command goes to z=0.3mm. The sixth command starts extruding the anchor. Around command 26 it finishes the first raft layer and does another 2mm retract prior to a tool move. There is no large retraction at the start of this print... So y'all should check if your own sliced prints are doing something the example files do not. That could be a sign of a slicer error.

[Joe Soap]

There is one missing:



I find I always have many items filed under that category.

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[Nick Lievendag]

I'm not sure but I guess the problem described here is not really a "retract" action. I thought retract meant the lifting of the nozzle. (please correct me if I'm wrong) Whats happening here is the extruder performing a short unload cycle which transfers the filament up out of the extruder. It's certainly more like 10mm than 2mm. After that it performs a load-cycle to reel the filament back in.

The machine performs this action right after the homing routine, thus before moving into place to start printing. Takes a few seconds to do this. So I'm not sure it's part of the gcode. Might just be a programmed pre-print routine.

On 18 May 2014 03:45, Ryan Carlyle <temp...@gmail.com> wrote:

It's possible to open up the 5g files and manually edit them. Change the .makerbot file extension to be a .zip file, then unzip it, and the print instruction list is in the print.jsontoolpath file. Open that in a text editor like Notepad and you will see all the tool commands. They can be hand-edited, but I make no promises.

I'm looking at the stretchy bracelet example right now. The third command is a 2mm retraction (on the "a" axis). The fourth command goes to z=0.3mm. The sixth command starts extruding the anchor. Around command 26 it finishes the first raft layer and does another 2mm retract prior to a tool move. There is no large retraction at the start of this print... So y'all should check if your own sliced prints are doing something the example files do not. That could be a sign of a slicer error.

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[Dan Newman]

On 18/05/2014, 8:46 AM, Nick Lievendag wrote:
> I'm not sure but I guess the problem described here is not really a
> "retract" action. I thought retract meant the lifting of the nozzle.

It means pulling some filament back out of the extruder. Just happens to
be that with the Gen 5 extruder, that causes the entire nozzle to lift.
(And hence some of the repositioning errors when the filament is pushed
back in, pushing the nozzle back down and it not settling in the same
position as before.)

> (please correct me if I'm wrong) Whats happening here is the extruder
> performing a short unload cycle which transfers the filament up out of the
> extruder.

It pulls the unsoftened filament back out. The molten stuff remains
in but hopefully with reduced pressure. The softened stuff stretches
like taffy but does not entirely get pulled back out.

> It's certainly more like 10mm than 2mm.

Which is silly, but there you have it. MakerWare defaults to 19mm when
doing dualstrusion which is even sillier.

Dan

[Lynn Strunk]

Thanks for the tip.  I wish I had read it sooner.  :-(
There is filament in my smart extruder, but I can't get it out.  It won't load filament (to squeeze out the blockage) and won't unload filament.   I cut the filament, removed the smart extruder, and wrote MakerBot support.  I suppose the only thing to do now is replace the smart extruder, right?  I have read of people that have bought/replaced multiple extruders.  How much do these cost?  Again, thanks for the tip.

[Ryan Carlyle]

I haven't had a chance to check the sliced files yet, but you should note when looking at the 5g toolpath that all positions are absolute positions. So if it says -2mm on three consecutive commands, that means it retracts 2mm one time and then stays there for two moves. By the end of a large print you'll be at, say, 100,000mm on the A axis.

[Nick Lievendag]

Then those -2mm commands have nothing to do with the pre-print filament unload cycle, which is way more than 2mm.

Also, it's not only a uncload cycle, but also a load cycle, which can't be found in the file. So I still believe that this short unload/load cycle is part of the pre-print routine. 

On 19 May 2014 05:14, Ryan Carlyle <temp...@gmail.com> wrote:

I haven't had a chance to check the sliced files yet, but you should note when looking at the 5g toolpath that all positions are absolute positions. So if it says -2mm on three consecutive commands, that means it retracts 2mm one time and then stays there for two moves. By the end of a large print you'll be at, say, 100,000mm on the A axis.

[Nick Lievendag]

If yours is still under warranty they will just replace it without any extra cost and probably send you the newly designed version (which has more cooling fins).

--

[Trey Billings]

Thanks for the tip! This worked for me and I am ecstatic as I am finally printing grey pla again. Before, only my clear natural would print as my other colors would clog before the anchor would start. 

On Friday, May 16, 2014 6:42:08 PM UTC-5, Nik wrote:

[Antonio Miguel Baena C.]

Here are my  tips and tricks to print (avoiding errors and jams ) on this printer that has brought me so many headaches.:

1 - Print PLA at 200°C and 70 mm/s extrusion speed.

2 - Add an elastic rubber roller on the input filament. This is to avoid false warnings of "Out of filament ". Since the current design the filament slips and the sensor believes was stuck. (see photo)

3 - To avoid printing stops when the thread is tangled in the roll have devised this mechanism, this is achieved with print pause before the catastrophe.http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:338247

Well I hope you serve these tips.

I trust that Makerbor company send me a free new and redesigned extruder. 

good luck!!

[Elijah Hughes]

I had this issue on both my first gen and fifth gen.  I increased the extruder temperature to 230 on the fifth gen and 235 on the first gen.  Since increasing my extrusion temperature I haven't had a single air print or extruder clog.

On Friday, April 11, 2014 10:40:30 PM UTC-4, Steve_Criz wrote:

Not that I'm an expert... but, it does surprise me that nobody is recommending a way/means of "lubricating" the filament on 5th gen machines as a means of at least reducing if not totally eliminating "air prints", as it does for Rep2 users suffering from the same issue.

Since employing the " lubricate the filament with oil" (I tried canola oil yesterday) technique, I've not experienced any where near the same degree of 'threading', let alone "air prints" or any build issues that could be ascribed to "dodgy filament" or some other extruder type problem.

Given how well it works on fixing such issues on 4th Gen Replicator 2's - something I can more than vouch for; I'm left wondering why nobody seems to have attempted the "lubricate the filament" technique on a 5th Gen printer as yet.

Maybe they have; and they're just too busy printing awesome stuff out to be bothered telling anyone about it or how they achieved the feat...