Re: Leapfrog Creatr vs Makerbot

[Jetguy]

While some might say post about other printers are not appropriate, I
say we need to have the occasional question like this. In the original
spirit of MakerBot in that it was about trying to make a better
printer and we were open to any ideas on that, not just officially
sanctioned or sold by MakerBot.

What I means is, I never heard of that printer, but you jsut made me
do some research :http://replicatorworld.com/issue-printer/summer-2012

Now, that out of the way, In general, it's not just buying a printer.
The problem is, it's an entire tool chain. See, you have an STL file
and want to print it. How easy is the software to use to open the
file, manipulate it into a printable position, generate the gcode, and
then send it to the printer. The mechanical bits of the printer are
another part of the situation, but really, as long as it works, the
first part with well defined default settings and profiles that work
could be more important than anything.

On Jan 22, 10:53 am, Ken Hoven <4printerserv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Guys,
> I am a newbe to the 3D home print world. I have been trying to do some
> research to decide between the Makerbot and the Leapfrog Creatr.
> Does anyone have experience, ideas or heard anything negative about the
> Leapfrog systems? Anyone know a place that I could do more research?
> Thanks in Advance,
> Ken

[Bottleworks]

The two cons I see for that machine is cost and speed.  Max speed listed is 200mm/min.  Not seconds.  The price is $7269.99 USD.  The all-in-one solution is neat.  It sounds like they have only made a prototype.  On their website, it says they are still finalizing the design. 

[Bottleworks]

I'm referring to the Xeed. 

[funmakerBart]

I was considering as well the Creatr for my next printer (now on the Rep1). It seems to have a more solid platform (3 spindles, 4 corners supported) but had problems with the spindles (in the new version replaced). I hear (on the Kisslicer forum) some good things, but for the most users it's their first printer.

The platform is heated until 80 degrees, and users claiming it's very difficult to level and certainly has sagging problems.

To have some decent output with the supplied firmware the profiles for Slic3r and Kisslicer had to be tweaked by a factor 0.5 to 0.9 according to the flow  to get the appropriate E values according to the layerheight. There are some reports of troubles with the extruders, of course regarding the drive gear and the 'grip' on the filament.

Although I think it's a nice piece of hardware -and all the initial problems seem solvable IMO-  I have the biggest hesitations with the board and firmware . 

The Creatr is running  Marlin 1.0.0 RC2 with an Arduina Mega 2560 R3. It uses Repetier-Host to drive it. (All info from the website and Creatr users).

The forum seems not to be very active. Technical questions are not answered in the forum but by Email. Users seem to be very satisfied with the support of Leapfrog though.

Leapfrog claims to have sold a 1000 printers already. I can't imagine with that number the forum is so quiet. Beginners always have obvious questions, For example: the firmware supplied should generate many questions IMO. 

Of course there is the possibility it's such a great printer nobody has questions, or there is a forum I'm not aware off. 

It's an option as well, to buy it as hardware and replace the circuit board (with my old Mightyboard ;-). But that's not what you are planning when buying such a printer: the value is in the support and the usability regarding electronics and firmware. That makes it a brand printer in stead of a home build Reprap or so.

But I hope for some review of an experienced user.

Bart

On Tuesday, February 12, 2013 10:46:10 PM UTC+1, Genesisfactor wrote:

Honestly, it really depends on what you want.  I have the leapfrog Creatr Dual.  Its a pretty nice, solid printer.  Both are, actually.  I have some makerbot stuff too, as do some of my friends.  If you need a large size, and some amazing customer service, a pending proprietary software module, and a warranty, then Leapfrog.  It was cheaper even with the shipping and 3 rolls of filament than the Rep2.  If you rather have a community, an iconic system, the ability to tinker more with the insides of the printer as well as print materials, and US based support, and support a US company, then Rep2.  There have been reviews on the Creatr several months old (which is why I picked it), as well as a US distributor.  Makerbot's stuff is awesome though, so like i said: do you need a 12"x11"x10" print volume, or do you rather want openness and experimentation?

[Ken Hoven]

I ended up choosing the MakerGear due my need of printing ABS 90% of the time. MakeBot is only experimental from their ads.

[funmakerBart]

I can imagine that. 80 degrees is to less normally to prevent warping with ABS. I use 110 degrees normally with Kapton.

[Elbot]

I actually interviewed a guy who owns a Creatr. He says that when he first got it, the printer warped like Heck because the HBP was not level but they sent him a replacement HBP and he has been a happy camper ever since. It is a nicer printer than the replicator because it is bigger.

However, it does print slower. The rep 1 with jetty firmware prints several times faster. There is huge community of hackers who support open source printers that are popular. However, the creatr is not open source, so you have to depend on the manufacturer for updates to the design more.

speed of printing and community sourced upgrades = replicator
big prints = creatr

[Joe Larson (aka Cymon)]

"Awise from youw Gwave"

I just saw on the Creatr's website a reference to printing in PVA. Does anyone use a creatr to print PVA successfully or is that just talk? 

[Jetguy]

Well, A couple of us have revisited the Leapfrog and, there are some
cool ideas in that bot. At a minimum, I'm planning on yet another
series of mods to the Type A machines basic design, stick with highly
modified MakerBot Gen4 electronics to retain Sailfish compatibility.

Now that Makerware supports gen4 and Sailfish, there is a whole new
world of printers about to be born. It's all about using the best of
the best of all designs and putting them into one machine.

On May 3, 10:29 am, "Joe Larson (aka Cymon)" <joealar...@gmail.com>
wrote:

[Joe Larson (aka Cymon)]

The thing that really bugs me is that there's no group sitting around talking about Leapfrog 3D printers like this group. Why isn't there?

[Bryon Miller]

I noticed this on many of the printer groups, I'm glad I went with makerbot, it has the best community IMHO.

[Александр Лепечин]

Sorry for replying in such an old thread, but can you tell please how slow creatr really is? On their website they only tell the speed in cubic centimeters which is 2. And no info in meters per second :\

[Darrell jan]

One arrived at work. I will get a look at it in operation this week. 

[Jetguy]

Sweet, I need pictures, as many as you can get.

 

Does it have an LCD interface?

It has dual extruders, what software are they using (that isn't clear from thier website).

 

How is filament loading via the long feed tubes?

What size spools fit?

[Darrell jan]

Not sure about posting pictures, since it's not my machine, but I will look into it.

No LCD. They use Repetier Host.

The very long feed tubes look to me to be annoying to load. They don't pop off as easily as on a Replicator; looks like you need a wrench. Or come up with your own spool arrangement as many of us do.

The spools fit inside the machine, on ball bearing platters, rotating horizontally like a lazy susan. I think some spools that would have gotten tangled up with this orientation, since the loops of filament can fall downward.

Extruder cabling is contained within what looks like a largish plastic bicycle chain.

I still haven't seen it in operation, but from reading the forum, it sounds like people typically operate around 40mm/s, which would be a normal, unaccelerated sort of speed. Don't know if the hardware limits the speed, or maybe they need Sailfish.

[Jetguy]

Most of those details I already knew from studying the few pictures they have of the machine but it was nice to hear someone else's opinion on functionality.

 

I was thinking having the spools inside might be nice, but at the same time, horizontal spools are prone to tangles, just think about the old MakerBot spool boxes, I have 2 of them-and they don't see much use anymore for those exact reasons.

[Darrell jan]

I was wrong about the feed tubes, they attach/detach much like a Replicator's. If anything, the attachment looks more robust. Despite the long feed distance, I didn't feel much resistance.

The extruder itself, though, is like a metal version of Delrin. The guide wheel/drive wheel distance is fixed. If you want to change it, you might be able to by loosening a screw. No local intelligence, all commands come from the attached computer, including "extrude" and "retract" instead of load/unload every time you want to change the filament.They really need the minimalist design.

[Darrell jan]

Well, of course, someone derived a Leapfrog Creatr version of the springloaded extruder:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:62468

[Hans Foerster]

That's like saying I bought a new car and I can't take pictures of it. Are the printers that protected you can't take pictures of it.
To me that seems crazy but then again you guys bought it so you have the right to protect that company from releasing any pictures of the worlds best 3d printer!!!!!!!
It certainly is hard to get any information from their website so I dont know how anyone would have an Informed decision on whether to buy one or not. I guess time will tell.

Hans

[Darrell jan]

I can't believe it, I still haven't seen this thing in action. BUT, I have seen some output. Again I apologize, it's not my output so I don't have permission to post pictures. What I saw was basically the same model, printed on both an Affinia and the Leapfrog. About 4 inches in diameter and two inches high, a cylinder with some details.

The Affinia version looked as good as you would expect. If I got that out of my Replicator I'd be happy (though probably the Replicator with sailfish is faster.) The leapfrog version had noticeable roughness, which looked like it was due to ringing. Like the whole thing was shaking from either bending or from loose fittings, or maybe both. With such a large print volume, the moment arms are large, so bending alone is quite plausible.

[3DwannaB]

So far it don't sound too that good to me. My Rep2 does 80mm feed/150mm travel as it's minimal speeds!

[Jetguy]

Ok, I'll buy into this argument either way since I don't have one in front of me.

I have heard rumors that the firmware/software needs some help on the creator.

 

So, print results from stock firmware being less than great doesn't completely surprise me.

What does surprise me is saying that ringing and distortion came from the frame/design as I personally have studied the pictures of the design for hours and hours and think it's quite a solid approach.

 

But, to be fair, all the shiny aluminum that is milled doesn't garantee a strong and stable machine. Implementation and build QC matter just as much as any design element.

 

Hopefully one is at the Make: 3D printer shootout and gets a solid review, and if not, hopefully one is at Maker Faire so I can get some up close personal time and try to figure out where it all went wrong.

 

I still stand behind it that from everything I know, it's a chunk of serious hardware, controlled by RAMPS, and using some pretty basic and reliable MK7ish extruders. I have to think it skilled hands it could be turned into a really reliable and nice printing machine. It would be better if it came that way stock, but considering it's so much cheaper than a Replicator 2 and really competes with the 2X considering the heated bed and dual extruders. It's arguably is a better value in the materials (aluminum VS stamped steel), metal instead of plastic brackets everywhere, I'd have to think given the proper software and firmware it would be extremely competitive on a print performance basis. I'm also perfectly willing to accept that just because what I saw in a product phot looked amazing, it doesn't mean the production unit didn't have changes or shortcuts. So at this point, pictures of a real production unti and some experience hands on would provide a better understanding to the reports of print quality.

[Darrell jan]

Finally saw it printing today. It was printing at what looked like a normal, non-accelerated speed. You could see a bumpiness in the printing, even in the skirt, about every couple of mm. Very regular. My guess is that it would benefit from lubrication on the rods--they felt quite dry and not silky smooth.

I didn't know before, but you're supposed to print on their stickers:

https://www.lpfrg.com/product/printing-sticker/

These work OK, but they don't seem to last all that long. Since the print area is big, you can keep using the sticker on the unprinted area.

The sticker envelope is blank, but the sticker backing material says Avery. I wonder if these are the same thing:

http://www.avery.com/avery/en_us/Products/Crafts-&-Scrapbooking/Sticker-Project-Paper/Clear-Sticker-Project-Paper_04383.htm

[MBuser]

The Creatr looks like it could easily have an enclosure, and the Xeed looks like it already has one. If so it would be one of the only other printers with one.