Replicator 2x PLA and PVA Print...

[Stephane S.]

Hi,

 

Just wanted to share my 2x experience with PLA.... and PVA ... following a proper test tonight.

 

 PLA : Scanned Gnome

 - Used Blue painter tape

 - Open lid + Front door

 - Had an external desktop fan blowing into the 2x front...

 - Extrusion temp 230 deg

 - No heated bed

 - 0.2mm

 

>> Flawless result for the gnome. Quite spectacular actually (never printed PLA before).

 

 

 PLA + PVA : Hilbert cube

 - Used Blue painter tape

 - Open lid + Front door

 - Had an external desktop fan blowing into the 2x front...

 - Extrusion temp 230 deg for PLA, 190 deg for PVA ==> Needed custom profile for that

 - No heated bed

 - 0.3mm

 

>> Since I had wall purge on, the PVA did not build up proper and that made a number of stringy filament on one side... I actually don't care considering they will dissolve,  but what this tells me is PVA not good for wall purge

 

>> Result is attached, will leave this overnight...for dissolve and post tomorrow. But it did print !!!

 

After all I read about 2X and PLA and PVA... really should I consider lucky ?

 

PS : The PLA + PVA is cube on right.- The one on left is ABS Dual Colour extrusion.

[Stephane S.]

And this is final result on a Replicator 2x, close up...

 

 

[Steve Johnstone]

Did you use Makerware for the slicing?

Impressive results with the PLA. Are you going to try ABS/PVA ?

[Jetguy]

Because I've said negative things about PVA, I kinda feel this was aimed at me. My point is not to ban PVA, just let people know what to expect.

It appears MakerBot did a lot of homework in the latest Makerware and tinkered until they got some ideal PVA settings and then put those defaults into the profile.

That's really impressive and probably cost them a fair amount of time and PVA filament for someone to experiment with.

 

But to you, the consumer, I still think a lot of what I warned about is true unless something in the PVA formula changed? Who knows? Maybe they came up with a coating on the outside of the filament that protects it from moisture in the air until it flows through the extruder? However, this still raises concerns. You got a great print with fresh PVA out of the bag. It also wasn't a long print greater than 4+ hours right? Folks printing with nylon can see a difference in moisture content in that filament after 2 hours of a roll being exposed to normal air, and with PVA being even more sensitive, I still have concerns custom filament spool holders and feed systems need to be developed to reliably use PVA.

 

I'm saying this because PVA is one of the most expensive filaments per pound (Well, glow in the dark just took that title but I digress), and it would be a real shame to see a partial roll go to waste.

 

So the real question is, it's been a while since the first print, I'm curious if you used the entire roll by now or if it's been in storage and can you get the same result today with a roll that has been opened?

If so, what precautions and method did you use to protect and store the filament or any actions such as drying methods before printing?

[Jetguy]

Also, at lease some of this discussion may be a moot point. I just did a search today to see what MakerBot's current price is on PVA and I can no longer find it in the store.

They seem to be only selling the newer HIPS based dissolvable filament.

 

It is good to know the profile works well for PVA, so again, I'm not trying to knock anything about this, just explain why I think it's still a risky material, and obviously MakerBot agrees with me. Just imagine them with a shelf of this stuff worried that it will degrade just from sitting around waiting for folks to buy it. That represents a significant challenge in and of itself, let alone getting it to print well for folks.

 

The newer HIPS based dissolvable seems to be a more stable filament as far as shelf life goes and that is a huge factor that cannot be ignored. The fact it is cheaper and prints more like ABS certainly is a bonus as well.

[Stephane S.]

Hi Jetguy,

 

First, nothing was targeted at you in my post. I was simple pleased by the result considering the many negatives I saw. I see as well some posts firmly stating PLA is not possible  with 2X and as such considering I did not do a lot of tweaks... wanted to balance those mostly for others.

 

On the PVA.. you'll be surprised I did not do anything and the roll had been staying in the air for more than 1 month.. !. Not FRESH at all.  I came to know about the humidity problem reading here actually but after the printing...:) If the oven can help dry and make it more solid a bit and cleaner print. I buy this PVA from a company in France. I actually don't buy the filament from Makerbot, shipping too expensive for me. When it arrived, it was indeed well sealed with a the "anti-humidity bag" (sorry my English lack the translation on this one :) ) I was wondering if putting it next to the air dryer would be an idea... will try.

 

I will definitely try the HIPS dissolvable as ABS remain my main material and I understand they go well together. I ordered these PLA and PVA in my first rolls as test purpose mostly.

[Michael Nichol]

So did u use MakerWare????  yes .... no ..... ???

 

This is awesome..

 

Ok what size box fan did u use...??

 

Mike

[Stephane S.]

 

Yes Makerware 2.3.1.18 (Latest). No real tweak aside the temperature for PVA extruder as I explained.

 

The external fan was a dyson like those http://www.dyson.co.uk/fans/fansandheaters.aspx  !!!  I opened lid and front door and basically was blowing into the enclosure from outside to generate the air flow. ===> Working on something different to be honest... :) it will be a printable and removable add-on to hold a simple computer fan powered by external power supply (no intent to mess with under powered Makerbot circuitry and risk to damage my board after reading on this forum...) . I had a 9 cm FAN 12V 0.24A sitting in a box and a spare power supply... connected the 2 simply and I have a quite good alternative to my dyson. Just need a way to hold this fan straight onto the extruders output, I'm 75% done with the modeling. Probably one more week of tweaking. I'll upload on thingiverse once done. It will add on the many available active cooling option for the 2X.B