Re: Ceramic Tape Replacement

[Ximfinity]

Update: First print is going well so far with no issues, I'll try to disassemble a bit and check for any heat related concerns once its done..

On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 2:16:16 PM UTC-4, Peter Strapp wrote:

I wasn't able to find the Ceramic tape available, so instead i used Mica tape for cable protection:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#6811A22

I then wrapped the kapton around a single layer of this.

Does anyone have any concern with this method? the original tape on there had disintegrated and this material seemed to have the highest temperature resistance I could find.

[Sean Tu]

Even though it is heat resistant, I would wonder how well does it insulate? This might not apply for a R2 but for a ToM with the safety cutoff this could be an issue.

BTW, MMC does sell the ceramic insulation tape, p/n 87575K87, although you have to by 25ft. With around 24 feet 9 inches left I think I'll be okay for a while :-)

On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Peter Strapp <pst...@gmail.com> wrote:

I wasn't able to find the Ceramic tape available, so instead i used Mica tape for cable protection:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#6811A22

I then wrapped the kapton around a single layer of this.

Does anyone have any concern with this method? the original tape on there had disintegrated and this material seemed to have the highest temperature resistance I could find.

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[Ximfinity]

Ah, I couldn't find that on McMaster, thanks. I'll probably replace it with that, this seems to be working but I would hate to melt the carriage on a longer print. 

[David Kessner]

In electronics, thin layers of Mica are used between a power transistor and a heat sink.  Mica is used because it is a good insulator of electricity, but a good conductor of heat.  In this case, "heat resistant" is not the same as "thermal insulation".

-David K

[TobyCWoods]

Ya know I can see you mean well... but please consider... unless you have actually done what you are recommending to others to do to their devices yourself it is not a good idea to tell people to try it.

On Tuesday, April 23, 2013 1:23:02 PM UTC-7, Damian Gto wrote:

Buy one like this: http://www.3m.com/product/information/Aluminum-Foil-Tape.html

and put that on every plastic around the nozzle you want to protect.

It is a great way to reduce the heat on stuff you want to protect.

There is many different type of this, just make sure the glue can stand heat and the aluminium folie is not to thin.

The cheap one is often to thin and has a glue that is very bad.

When my rep2x come I will measure up every part of the bot to see if I see any part that has to much heat on it.

I can not count how many time I solved heat issues with aluminium tape.

[TobyCWoods]

I can't tell if you actually have ceramic or some other insulator in there or not. Kapton tape by itself is not an insulator. If not, it will still print but it can damage your downward fan shroud and it can make the stuff already printed sag if the toolpath is real small.

I have already replaced my insulation. I used a more durable woven cloth like ceramic tape. Yes it has adhesive on it which is meant for the cool side. Works fine and is much more durable (for when you remove a nozzle). I put the adhesive side towards the Kapton, not the block. Works fine.

[tunell]

Judging by the fact that makerbot's ceramic tape is sold out (yet again) I think there must be a lot of people getting the "mega-booger" on their nozzles. Removing one of those things is hard on the ceramic tape.

I got a booger, and it the hot PLA saturated the spongy ceramic tape, and it smelled like burned corn syrup for a week before I broke down and removed the tape too. I've been running for a couple of months with no insulation, and it hasn't seemed to be much of a problem yet, although my temperature settings may not be as accurate as before... I think the main purpose of the tape is to keep the aluminum block uniformly heated.

[TobyCWoods]

Mega-booger! LOL!

[Wingcommander whpthomas]

These guy sell both ceramic insulation and kapton http://store.qu-bd.com/

I just re-applied the ceramic insulation to my Replicator 2 hot end. I think its worth having as it reduced the radiated heat.

[Andrew Morrison]

What are the steps for getting the hot end off for rewrapping with the ceramic insulation?   I just got blobbed and need to fix ASAP.  McMaster will have the ceramic for me at will call today, so I should be able to fix it tonight.

[TobyCWoods]

It's... tricky. Get some leather work gloves. Two ways to go. The first assumes your hot block is mated ok with the threaded tube and the hot block is not loose. If this is the case you can rewrap it without taking the entire extruder apart. If so, then you can do it all cold, but you will need to wrap carefully... be careful not to damage the t/c and heater cables. The other way assuming the hot block is loose requires that you take the whole cold block-threaded tube-hot block-nozzle assembly apart.

So... which is it?

[Andrew Morrison]

Everything seems to be tight and well mated, so I assume I can do it cold.  Any tips you can give me would be great.  Thanks!

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[TobyCWoods]

Replacing it cold is MUCH easier! A hole for the nozzle and on the other side a hole with a cut for the tube. or... I like what our friend Carl in S.A. did... he cut the ceramic tape per each side of the block then wrapped the kapton strips around them to hold it all neatly together. I used Ceramic cloth instead of the more fragile tape and wrapped it in thin Kapton to hold it together, then I cut the holes. Whole thing easily wraps over the block then holds together with thin kapton strips. The result is neat and quite durable... probably won't be needing to ever do it again. I was considering making a big batch of precut ceramic cloth and Kapton replacements if there were interest. 

[Andrew Morrison]

Thanks for the encouraging directions.  I wrapped and taped the hot end being careful to not damage the thermocouple or heater wires.

Unfortunately, when I turned the bot back on, it does not heat up at all. The temperature is reading 23 or 24 C on the display, so I assume the thermocouple is working. Is there a fuse or something else on the heater that might have blown which would cause it to not heat up?

[TobyCWoods]

Are you sure the heater is connected? It's the 2 white wires that go form the hot block to a connector hidden behind the downward fan.

[Andrew Morrison]

Yes, I checked that.  I unplugged then reseated just to double check the connection. Here's a photo: https://www.dropbox.com/s/r1trzh2tar7ea75/2013-05-11%2015.37.54-1.jpg

Also puzzling is that the LEDs don't switch to red when I try heating.  Not sure if that helps or not.  :(

[TobyCWoods]

Not sure why you are not getting heat. The ceramic tape seems to go upwards in a bunch and touches on to the cold block. You probably would not want that. You do not want space between the tape and the hot block.
Here's a pick of Carls' hot block to give you an idea of what you want.

However, you should be getting heat even without any insulation.

[drando...@gmail.com]

FYI one more vote for qu-bd.com and their insulators. Also their $5 nozzles are identical to MBI. I ordered all of it and rebuilt my hot end and I'm printing better than ever. I dissembled everything. Sanded clean the block and the heater hole. Then I got a 1.75mm drill bit and cleaned the feeder tube. Re-wrapped it and assembled. Now its running like a champ.

[Andrew Morrison]

Okay, thanks for the photo.  I had mine taped weird because I tried putting the insulation on without taking anything apart.  Seeing the photo you attached, I noticed that my set screw for the heater cartridge was on the other side (opposite the nozzle's narrow end) as compared to the photo you posted.  I disassembled the hot end and found that I could not get the heater cartridge out.  I'm starting to become convinced that I may have a blown heater cartridge.  Is that likely?

Thanks for the advice.  I'm hugely bummed about this. I use this in a class I teach and students have projects due next week that we can't finish.

[Jetguy]

Oh it's HIGHLY likely that the cartidge has failed. We had TONS of
problem when they first started using the cartridge on the MK6+ on the
T-O-M. The first ones had no strain relief (the metal tab weled to
the side that wraps around over the wires). The weakest point is where
the wires go into the cartridge. It would take almost nothing moving
stuff around to break a wire and make it open circuit, thus obviously
not going to heat. Just because it has a strain relief doesn't mean it
couldn't break, it's far from perfect and as i said, they are one of
the more fragile components.

That said, you could test it with a standard digital multimeter set to
Ohms or diode check when disconnected at the motherboard.

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[Andrew Morrison]

That's the problem, then!  Thank you!!  

Is this a standard part that can be picked up at a supply house like McMaster or Grainger?  Or should I get one ordered from qu-bd?  Like I said, I'm in a bit of a time crunch on this.

Thanks again!

[WhiteClouds]

Our ceramic and Kapton tape came off. We open a support ticket with MakerBot and they sent us out a precut replacement ceramic and Kapton tape. 

If it helps, here's a video on how to replace it: http://youtu.be/Uo9qYKina9Q.

[BryceF]

Check out ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/251361636534?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 or this website for replacements: http://tovekdrivesystems.yolasite.com/store.php

[Alex Jerden]

Ive had wonderful success with sugru. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:160694